Aisha (Ra)

[Rebaz]

Bukhari 73:151
Narrated 'aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)

Recently came over that hadith, my question is now, didn't Aisha (ra) reach puberity when she got married with Muhammed (pbuh)?

 

[Rebaz]

salam rebaz

Until Aisha(ral) reach her puberty , the couple didnot start their relationship as husband and wife.

:salam2:

Can I have sources on that please?

 

[Rebaz]

salam

I hv quoted the following hadees
From the hadith of Muslim, volume 2, #3309

Aisha reported: Allah’s Messenger married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine….

From the hadith of the Sunan of Abu Dawud, volume 2, #2116

"Aisha said, "The Apostle of Allah married me when I was seven years old." (The narrator Sulaiman said: "Or six years."). "He had intercourse with me when I was 9 years old."

wa aleikum salam

:salam2:
Ain't this Hadith about the time when she was 9 years old?

 

[auroran]

:salam2:

When females gets their menses, they can have babies--

It doesn't matter what her age was, she was a scholar of Islaam and Ummul mu'min, whether she was nineteen or nine.

:salam2:

 

[nyerekareem]

I have also been told that the dolls that were played with by Aisha ( may Allah be pleased with her ) were faceless dolls as to not mimic Allahs creation. Also there is tons of debate regarding Aishas age. It had been mentioned, forgive me if I am wrong, that she had been present at the battle of Uhud, a battle in which no one including males under the age of fifteen was allowed to be present and would be sent back by orders of the Prophet SAWS. So it's very difficult to say.

 

[thariq2005]

I have also been told that the dolls that were played with by Aisha ( may Allah be pleased with her ) were faceless dolls as to not mimic Allahs creation. Also there is tons of debate regarding Aishas age. It had been mentioned, forgive me if I am wrong, that she had been present at the battle of Uhud, a battle in which no one including males under the age of fifteen was allowed to be present and would be sent back by orders of the Prophet SAWS. So it's very difficult to say.

Assalaamu `alaykum

Just to mention a few points:

- Is the above what you mentioned, mentioned by the `ulemaa'? Or just general people? I mean about the faceless dolls?

- The debate about `Aa'ishah's (radiyAllaahu `anhaa) age is something that is bought about by some of the pathetic "modernists". And it is something that people should not pay attention to, as it is a filthy doubt that people put into the minds of the believers.

The authentic narrations indicate the Prophet :saw2: married `Aa'ishah radiyAllaahu `anhaa when she was six years old, and consummated the marriage with her when she was nine, and she stayed with him for nine years. Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 4840; Muslim, 1422.

And the scholars have agreed (Ijmaa`) on the permissibility of a father marrying off his daughter before the age of puberty as mentioned by Ibn `Abdil Barr

This is not something a Muslim should be ashamed or shy about, and indeed it is Islaam that gave us honour and dignity. It was normal for the people at that time, and even the people who came generations after the time of the Sahaabah, to marry women at the age of 9 or 10, or after puberty.

Imam Al-Bayhaqi narrated that Imam Al-Shaafi`ee said: “I have seen in the city of Sana’a a grandmother while she was twenty one. She menstruated at the age of nine and gave birth at the age of 10” [Sunan Al-Bayhaqi Al-Kubra: 1/319]

Imam Al-Shaafi`ee said: “During my stay in Yemen I have come across girls at the age of nine whom menstruated so often” [Siyar A’lam Al-Nubala’: 10/91]

That was at the time of Imaam al-Shaafi`ee which was generations after the time of the Messenger of Allaah :saw2:

With regards to what was mentioned about the battle of Uhud, then as I mentioned, this is a really ignorant arguement these modernists have bought forth.

Firstly, the hadeeth does not mention "all of the people" were sent back.
Ibn `Umar radiyAllaahu `anhumaa narrated that the Prophet of Allaah :saw2: called me to present myself in front of him or the eve of the battle of Uhud, while I was fourteen years of age at that time, and he did not allow me to take part in that battle, but he called me in front of him on the eve of the battle of the Trench when I was fifteen years old, and he allowed me (to join the battle)." Naafi` said, "I went to 'Umar bin 'Abdul Aziz who was Caliph at that time and related the above narration to him, He said, "This age (fifteen) is the limit between childhood and manhood," and wrote to his governors to give salaries to those who reached the age of fifteen. [Saheeh al-Bukhaari: 2521]

Regarding this hadeeth, this is what the Ibn Hajar mentioned:

Imam Al-Nawawi put this Hadith under the title “the age of puberty” then he said: “it is the age at which boys become fighters and take the same ruling as men” [ Sharh Saheeh Muslim: 12/13]

Imam Al-Nawawi then said : “ upon this Hadith Imam Al-Shafi’e, Al-Awza’ie, Ibn Wahb and Imam Ahmad and others said that 15 is the age of puberty ( for males) [ Sharh Saheeh Muslim: 12/13]

On top of that, there are many proofs that men under the age of 15 took part in the battles as narrated by `Abdur-Rahmaan bin `Auf: While I was fighting in the front line on the day (of the battle) of Badr, suddenly I looked behind and saw on my right and left two young boys and did not feel safe by standing between them. Then one of them asked me secretly so that his companion may not hear, "O Uncle! Show me Abu Jahl." I said, "O nephew! What will you do to him?" He said, "I have promised Allah that if I see him (i.e. Abu Jahl), I will either kill him or be killed before I kill him." Then the other said the same to me secretly so that his companion should not hear. I would not have been pleased to be in between two other men instead of them. Then I pointed him (i.e. Abu Jahl) out to them. Both of them attacked him like two hawks till they knocked him down. Those two boys were the sons of 'Afra' (i.e. an Ansari woman). [Saheeh al-Bukhari: 3766]

There is no "clear" hadeeth that mentions that women under the age of 15 did not come to the battles.

Akhee nyerekareem: I know you did not bring about this doubt, just thought I should clarify this issue- by the permission of Allaah. I hope you did not take any offense or anything of that sort. I love you for the sake of Allaah

BaarakAllaahu feekum
Wassalaamu `alaykum

 

[Rebaz]

Assalaamu `alaykum

Just to mention a few points:

- Is the above what you mentioned, mentioned by the `ulemaa'? Or just general people? I mean about the faceless dolls?

- The debate about `Aa'ishah's (radiyAllaahu `anhaa) age is something that is bought about by some of the pathetic "modernists". And it is something that people should not pay attention to, as it is a filthy doubt that people put into the minds of the believers.

The authentic narrations indicate the Prophet :saw2: married `Aa'ishah radiyAllaahu `anhaa when she was six years old, and consummated the marriage with her when she was nine, and she stayed with him for nine years. Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 4840; Muslim, 1422.

And the scholars have agreed (Ijmaa`) on the permissibility of a father marrying off his daughter before the age of puberty as mentioned by Ibn `Abdil Barr

This is not something a Muslim should be ashamed or shy about, and indeed it is Islaam that gave us honour and dignity. It was normal for the people at that time, and even the people who came generations after the time of the Sahaabah, to marry women at the age of 9 or 10, or after puberty.

Imam Al-Bayhaqi narrated that Imam Al-Shaafi`ee said: “I have seen in the city of Sana’a a grandmother while she was twenty one. She menstruated at the age of nine and gave birth at the age of 10” [Sunan Al-Bayhaqi Al-Kubra: 1/319]

Imam Al-Shaafi`ee said: “During my stay in Yemen I have come across girls at the age of nine whom menstruated so often” [Siyar A’lam Al-Nubala’: 10/91]

That was at the time of Imaam al-Shaafi`ee which was generations after the time of the Messenger of Allaah :saw2:

With regards to what was mentioned about the battle of Uhud, then as I mentioned, this is a really ignorant arguement these modernists have bought forth.

Firstly, the hadeeth does not mention "all of the people" were sent back.
Ibn `Umar radiyAllaahu `anhumaa narrated that the Prophet of Allaah :saw2: called me to present myself in front of him or the eve of the battle of Uhud, while I was fourteen years of age at that time, and he did not allow me to take part in that battle, but he called me in front of him on the eve of the battle of the Trench when I was fifteen years old, and he allowed me (to join the battle)." Naafi` said, "I went to 'Umar bin 'Abdul Aziz who was Caliph at that time and related the above narration to him, He said, "This age (fifteen) is the limit between childhood and manhood," and wrote to his governors to give salaries to those who reached the age of fifteen. [Saheeh al-Bukhaari: 2521]

Regarding this hadeeth, this is what the Ibn Hajar mentioned:

Imam Al-Nawawi put this Hadith under the title “the age of puberty” then he said: “it is the age at which boys become fighters and take the same ruling as men” [ Sharh Saheeh Muslim: 12/13]

Imam Al-Nawawi then said : “ upon this Hadith Imam Al-Shafi’e, Al-Awza’ie, Ibn Wahb and Imam Ahmad and others said that 15 is the age of puberty ( for males) [ Sharh Saheeh Muslim: 12/13]

On top of that, there are many proofs that men under the age of 15 took part in the battles as narrated by `Abdur-Rahmaan bin `Auf: While I was fighting in the front line on the day (of the battle) of Badr, suddenly I looked behind and saw on my right and left two young boys and did not feel safe by standing between them. Then one of them asked me secretly so that his companion may not hear, "O Uncle! Show me Abu Jahl." I said, "O nephew! What will you do to him?" He said, "I have promised Allah that if I see him (i.e. Abu Jahl), I will either kill him or be killed before I kill him." Then the other said the same to me secretly so that his companion should not hear. I would not have been pleased to be in between two other men instead of them. Then I pointed him (i.e. Abu Jahl) out to them. Both of them attacked him like two hawks till they knocked him down. Those two boys were the sons of 'Afra' (i.e. an Ansari woman). [Saheeh al-Bukhari: 3766]

There is no "clear" hadeeth that mentions that women under the age of 15 did not come to the battles.

Akhee nyerekareem: I know you did not bring about this doubt, just thought I should clarify this issue- by the permission of Allaah. I hope you did not take any offense or anything of that sort. I love you for the sake of Allaah

BaarakAllaahu feekum
Wassalaamu `alaykum

:salam2:
Thanks for the good things you put up, but got anything regarding the question I asked in the beginning of the thread? Is there any evidence that Aisha reached puberty when the marriage was complete?

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

We know from Bukhari the Prophet waited three years to come and take her to his home.

Now, we need to stop beating about the bush. We are discussing the motives of the Prophet of Allah. He was given two dreams about Aisha. He was obedient to Allah and married her.

As a Muslim I have to love the Prophet. I am given his example to strive for paradise.

Her youth and agile brilliant mind preserved many hadeeth for us.

Can we discuss more important issues. So many non-Muslims get stuck on this. Folks, the man who served Allah , served Allah with all his heart and soul.

 

[nadir91]

:salam2:
was really the propeht's wife 9 yers old when he for the first time had intercouse with her?!I'm astonished.I didn't know it

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

What does that have to do with our faith and accepting the Prophet as the Messenger of Allah.

 

[arzafar]

First of all this hadith is correct! In islam a father can marry of his daughter before the age of puberty, commonly known as child marriage. however she stays in her home and only goes to her husbands home after passing the age puberty.

Personally this is just one of those things, i cannot make sense of. I mean surely there must be some wisdom behind but i am still trying to search for it. Yes i know age is just a number but child marriage just doesnt feel or look right 10000 years in the past or 10000 years in the future. Surely one can wait a few years before marrying of their daughter.

Could it be possible that this was one of those things permissible to the prophet (pbuh) only?

 

[auroran]

:salam2:

As I said before, once a female reaches her menses, she can have babies. This is a big deal because she can start a family. I don't know about the time when she started puberty though, Allaahu Alam.

People didn't live really long back then, for example, all of the daughters of the Prophet except Fatimah (radi Allaahu anhaa) died before him.

When somebody thinks of an average nine year old, a little naive girl comes to mind, but remember, this is 1400 years ago, in a hot region in which girls develop earlier, and had different responsibilities.

I agree with Aapa, he's the Messenger of Allaah ! A Prophet, a pious man, that the entire Ummah tries to follow.

:salam2:

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

In my section of the world there is a simple saying: age ain't nothin but a number.

We have become accustomed to defining maturation at a specific number. Person X reaches age 18 and he is a man. No quality of manhood is mastered. There is no accountability of what he has experienced or learned. He is granted adulthood, automatically.

But that is not how life works. If we were fruit we would not ripen at the same time, even on the same vine. Some ripen early and some take our sweet old time. And there is variety in this world.

We get so caught up in the label of our own manufacturing we get confused.

I, who wish to please Allah, who am I to question the actions of the Prophet of Allah. Mine is to strive as the Prophet showed us by his actions towards Allah.

 

[hayat84]

:salam2:
maybe before the prphetSAWS the conception of the woman was different.indeed a man could have how many wives he wanted,he also could possess female "slaves" who could satisfy him.maybe the young girls too were "sold" from their parents because they needed money.there was much ignorance in the past.many people "buried" their daughters because of their ignorance!
Only to Muhammed ('alihi salatu wa salam)was allowed to hve more than 4 wives(he had 9)and only to him(maybe)it was allowed to get married with a young girl(he dreamt about 'Aisha RA).Maybe in the past the phisycal structure of the body of a girl wasn't the same of nowadays:'Aisha might have been 9 years old,but her body was as "big" as the body of a girl of 16/17 years.that's why it's a little difficult to image a girl of 9 years old with a man more older.this was Allah's Will,and He never does something to harm His slaves