Are you addicted to TTI?

[al-fajr]

Let me guess, Islamophobia and the great Jewish conspiracy.

Right, nothing more to say then, not even the truth.

Like I said, you do learn a lot about Islam and muslims on these websites.

No. You're wrongly assuming that I am wrongly assuming things, ironic.

Ah well. If you want a dialogue, like brother ayman1 said, you do it without insulting the very basis of our faith. Ofcourse if everyone believed Muhammad (may Allaah's blessings be upon him) was the perfect man then there probably wouldn't be many non-muslims left in the world! Obviously they don't believe that. The point is we do, in light of that if you want to discuss with us you have to respect our beliefs, manners is the most basic requirement in any civil discussion

 

[hana*]

Let me guess, Islamophobia and the great Jewish conspiracy.

Right, nothing more to say then, not even the truth.

Like I said, you do learn a lot about Islam and muslims on these websites.

Dear Artemis,

I can start by saying that I see from your replies that you have a hatred or perhaps a dislike to Islam, possibly based on your experience with Muslims. however, I do not blame you. there are a lot of Muslims out there who give Islam a bad name so to speak. However, you would be doing alot if injustice to yourself by judging Islam based on Muslims, as Islam is a perfect way of life but Muslims, however, are not. we are far from perfect.

I also read on your replies that you believe that we, as Muslims are not interested in what the non-Muslims think of us or about the poor woman, whose husband bacame Muslim. that is quite the opposite actually. I can speak for myself and say, as a Muslim, I am very interested in what the non-muslims think of us.

My work is such that i move from pharmacy to pharmacy, so I meet alot of new faces and alot of collegues. the topic of Islam, in particular women in Islam is always brought up. Iam delighted when non-Muslims speak about their views and misconceptions about Islam as this is a prime opportunity to recitfy these thought- and 95% of the time, I obtain a positive respose.

we as Muslims are human and we haev more in common than you may imagine. we only wish for peace and do not wish to 'convert every non-Muslim we come accross'. I ask you, if Islam was not a great faith or if Muhammad (upon whom be peace) was not a great man, why is it then that we have more converts to this faith than any other religion? why is it that, in particular women in american and UK, they are leaving the so-called freedoms offered by the West to accept Islam?

There is no compulsion in faith, anyone who enters Islam does so based on their true internal conviction of it being the truth.

My request to you: please judge Islam based on the Quran only and not what Muslims say or do.

Peace

 

[Artemis]

How can you conclude from that experience that Muhammad, peace be upon him, was no special man worthy of special respect? Even if we can characterize that story as a lousy experience with some Muslims. You too may have had some of those experiences as well. Do rational people draw sweeping conclusions about a global religion and historic figures from individual experiences with people who may or may not be representing the religion? Muslims face a lot of lousy experiences with non-Muslims too you know.

The fact that you started out with disrespect for the prophet is what caused this negativity in the first place. Perhaps we can start over?

I do not, what I see is that on the LI forum, not one muslim gave tuppence for that poor womans feelings, not one!

We can certainly start over again but I am not a muslim and I do not regard Mohammed as the perfect man and example for all time.

 

[Artemis]

Dear Artemis,

I can start by saying that I see from your replies that you have a hatred or perhaps a dislike to Islam, possibly based on your experience with Muslims. however, I do not blame you. there are a lot of Muslims out there who give Islam a bad name so to speak. However, you would be doing alot if injustice to yourself by judging Islam based on Muslims, as Islam is a perfect way of life but Muslims, however, are not. we are far from perfect.

I also read on your replies that you believe that we, as Muslims are not interested in what the non-Muslims think of us or about the poor woman, whose husband bacame Muslim. that is quite the opposite actually. I can speak for myself and say, as a Muslim, I am very interested in what the non-muslims think of us.

My work is such that i move from pharmacy to pharmacy, so I meet alot of new faces and alot of collegues. the topic of Islam, in particular women in Islam is always brought up. Iam delighted when non-Muslims speak about their views and misconceptions about Islam as this is a prime opportunity to recitfy these thought- and 95% of the time, I obtain a positive respose.

we as Muslims are human and we haev more in common than you may imagine. we only wish for peace and do not wish to 'convert every non-Muslim we come accross'. I ask you, if Islam was not a great faith or if Muhammad (upon whom be peace) was not a great man, why is it then that we have more converts to this faith than any other religion? why is it that, in particular women in american and UK, they are leaving the so-called freedoms offered by the West to accept Islam?

There is no compulsion in faith, anyone who enters Islam does so based on their true internal conviction of it being the truth.

My request to you: please judge Islam based on the Quran only and not what Muslims say or do.

Peace

Dear Hana*,
I do not hate Islam, it is a concept and thus is beyond hate,I do not care for some muslims, but on Saturday I am popping over to a charming Pakistani muslim lady who has shoulder problems, I will give her a Shiatsu massage (her eldest daughter will be there as a chaperone ( may have to give the daughters back a once over), even though she calls me her little brother (our father had a bike, not sure what she means when she says that, I think it is a joke) which would make me a mahram (if I were); afterwards she will cook a meal to which I and her family will do full justice, I am not saying she is devout, but she will not even walk down the alcohol aisle at Tescos.


I would question your statistics however, at least three of X's children are muslim in name only, they follow the forms because of the distress it would cause their mother and the social problems it would create, so I would claim them for atheism or agnosticism rather than Islam. From discussions with them it appears that many muslim children are muslim in the same way that many Brits are CoE by inheritance but not by faith, certainly they use me to talk over things they could never talk of with their mother. So can ou really call them muslims?

I am glad to hear that you do care about the feelings of non-muslims.

Alas Islam cannot be judged on the Qu'ran alone, else what are the hadith for?

Salaam.

 

[Tabassum07]

We can certainly start over again but I am not a muslim and I do not regard Mohammed as the perfect man and example for all time.

Hello Artemis. Maybe we could start working on this statement for a start, and just try and understand why you view it this way. And why we view it differently.

Let's try to keep it peaceful of course, so to all my TTI brothers and sisters, please lay off on the dislike or negativity. How horrible are we if we can't have even a teensy bit of patience in times like these? Are we really going to let our anger get the better of us each time??

 

[Artemis]

Hello Artemis. Maybe we could start working on this statement for a start, and just try and understand why you view it this way. And why we view it differently.

Let's try to keep it peaceful of course, so to all my TTI brothers and sisters, please lay off on the dislike or negativity. How horrible are we if we can't have even a teensy bit of patience in times like these? Are we really going to let our anger get the better of us each time??

Sure, why not? Now I understand that you have to accept him as the perfect man, because as I recall he is described as such in the Qu'ran, and I understand that you take your religious commands with great seriousness, but I hope you willl equally understand that I do not share your faith and thus the Qu'ran, to me, is an interesting book which has some things I agree with and some things I regard disagree with. As a result I do not feel the need to regard him as perfect.

 

[Muslim_Gurl]

As a result I do not feel the need to regard him as perfect.

Ohh but why do you feel that way? There must be a reason..??..

 

[Artemis]

Ohh but why do you feel that way? There must be a reason..??..

Well, I could go on about him killing,or rather having killed a great poet because said poet did not treat him with due respect.

 

[al-fajr]

We can certainly start over again but I am not a muslim and I do not regard Mohammed as the perfect man and example for all time.

Thats not a problem, we know you don't.

Let's try to keep it peaceful of course, so to all my TTI brothers and sisters, please lay off on the dislike or negativity. How horrible are we if we can't have even a teensy bit of patience in times like these? Are we really going to let our anger get the better of us each time??

Sure, but Im not giving out sweets to people who hand out scorpions.

Well, I could go on about him killing,or rather having killed a great poet because said poet did not treat him with due respect.

Ka'ab ibn Ashraf? On what basis do you call him 'great'? Im really interested to know how you come by your judgements.

Why was he killed? He wasn't killed because he hated Rasulullaah, or Islaam, or the muslims. He was entitled to his view, many people agreed with him, all of the Jewish community of Madeenah agreed with his views, but Ka'ab ibn Ashraf took his hatred to another level. He was killed because he wrote poetry about expressing this hatred. Poetry in that age was like the media of that time, propaganda was done in the way of poetry, if you wanted to completely denigrate someones name you could do so through writing poetry, the effects of poetry on the people were far reaching.

Ka'ab ibn Ashraf would have been equivalent to a foreign minister in status in our times today, he wasn't just an average jewish citizen, his death set the standard for others to remain in line. You can agree to disagree, hate Islaam, hate our beliefs, but that doesn't give you the freedom to insult without consequence.

This is not another turn the other cheek religion.

 

[Artemis]

Ka'ab ibn Ashraf? On what basis do you call him 'great'? Im really interested to know how you come by your judgements.

Sundry historians.

Ka'ab ibn Ashraf would have been equivalent to a foreign minister in status in our times today, he wasn't just an average jewish citizen, his death set the standard for others to remain in line. You can agree to disagree, hate Islaam, hate our beliefs, but that doesn't give you the freedom to insult without consequence.

Sounds like rule through fear,say anything we don't like and you die!

.

This is not another turn the other cheek religion.

I know it is kill anyone who disagrees with us religion.

 

[maYRam]

well, i'm gettiNG Addicted nOW..

 

[Muslim_Gurl]

I know it is kill anyone who disagrees with us religion.

My dear friend, its not like that . I mean think of it this way, if our Prophet was *really* like that, you think we would follow him? Its suprising how a small story can actually make you think like this about our religion. Ohh and all those people that converted, and agreed to follow our Prophet, was it because he *killed* people? I mean all those converts yeah, why on earth would they want to leave their religion to follow someone who you say was a *killer*. Think about that. And also, read more about the Prophet to learn the truth, if you want. At the end of the day, its all up to you

Forgive me if I have offended you in any way Ohh and if you got something else to say thats bothering you, go ahead, we are all ears to you

Take care

 

[arzafar]

Do you know, I made an offer like that on another thread.

I tried to explain the attitudes of non-muslims and pointed out that to non-muslims Mohammed is not the perfect human being to be respected above all others. I was told that this is a muslim board and I was not to say things like that and if I was not properly respectful I would be removed from the board. I apologised for trying to provide another point of view, withdrew from the thread and added that if anyone was interested in a non-muslim point of view as to why muslims were viewed in a bad light by non-muslims I would be pleased to respond by pm. There was one response on the thread which was congratulations to the person who threatened to remove me from the board and none by pm.

What lessons on muslims and Islam do you think I might draw from that?

Well i missed the offer i think.

i agree with your observation, i think i remember that particular thread.

1. In the past people have called Muhammad (pbuh) some very bad things.
2. Vast Majority of them were forgiven.
3. There were exceptions in which case some people were punished and you point to one of those cases while conveniently ignoring the reason he was killed.

you might have heard an old topic for debate "tolerance is a sign of weakness/strength - yes or no". You see there is a limit to tolerance. Once you go beyond that limit anyone will react. Even steel has a maximum tensile strength beyond which it breaks.

I think muslims nowadays lack tolerance. i can give you that. However, this intolerance has nothing to do with islam.

You value freedom of speech i suppose. well then can you please explain the holiness attached to the holocaust. if somebody even doubts the numbers of the holocaust why is he criticized in the media? Thou may criticize god but thou shall not criticize Israel. any idea why?

The problem i see over here is the hypocrisy of the people. You can cling onto a poet being killed for describing Muhammad (pbuh) as somebody 'normal' yet you (i mean people in general) can call the mass murderer Alexander, "the great".
this is just one example, there is naploean, Julius Caesar, founding fathers of America and many other 'holy' mass murderers who are heroes in their respective nations! Can you go parading in the US about GW being a cruel slave owner? that his picture being on USD bills and coins is disrespectful to the blacks? Do you think they will allow you to do that? i can add to that list of 'great men' but i hope you get the drift.

Muslims never make fun or disrespect figures of other faiths. you would never see cartoons, caricatures of moses, jesus, pope, buddah, khrishan etc done by a muslim. If there are drawing images they are sinning anyway. Additionally Allah has ordered us not to desecrate others' gods for they may retaliate. Obviously this doesn't mean that other faiths or atheists have to reciprocate. However, when others disrespect islamic figures, it is seen by many muslims as an injustice not as freedom of speech like you see it. Hence, the reaction.

What i find amazing is that out of all the threads on the TTI, you have based your judgment of Muslims here on a single thread!

having said that, i do think that muslims do over react most of the time Unfortunately the condition of muslims of today is such that we are able to bring out thousands in demonstrations against Denmark to show 'our love and affection' for Muhammad (pbuh) and yet fail to consistently do something as basic as filling the mosques for the five daily prayers or feeding the poor. So you see muslims today in general are a pathetic representation of islam.

Now you and many others will see the thinning numbers in the mosques, the modernization of 'muslim' women and their children trusting a stranger rather than their mother for guidance, or them becoming atheists as the sign of imperfection of islam :lol:

It is actually an explicit sign of the end of times given to us by Islam. so thank you for your observations as they confirm our faith in Islam. Indeed, the vast majority will abandon islam giving in to their desires and only a few faithful will remain. May Allah make me and my family belong to the few. Ameen!

If you want to discuss the life of Muhammad (pbuh) or some other aspect of Islam, please start a new thread.

 

[Artemis]

Muslims never make fun or disrespect figures of other faiths. you would never see cartoons, caricatures of moses, jesus, pope, buddah, khrishan etc done by a muslim. If there are drawing images they are sinning anyway. Additionally Allah has ordered us not to desecrate others' gods for they may retaliate. Obviously this doesn't mean that other faiths or atheists have to reciprocate. However, when others disrespect islamic figures, it is seen by many muslims as an injustice not as freedom of speech like you see it. Hence, the reaction.

Point is I did not disrespect him I just do not ascrtibe him the same slavish respect that muslims do

What i find amazing is that out of all the threads on the TTI, you have based your judgment of Muslims here on a single thread!

.

Who said that his was the only thread? This was one example from this and other noticeboards, did you not read that on the LI islamic board that aChristian womans distress was toatlly ignored? That was another threa. There are other threadsfrom MPACUk I coukd reference, or the BBC muslim boards or well why go on, if I referenced all of the thread I would overload the server, possibly.

having said that, i do think that muslims do over react most of the time Unfortunately the condition of muslims of today is such that we are able to bring out thousands in demonstrations against Denmark to show 'our love and affection' for Muhammad (pbuh) and yet fail to consistently do something as basic as filling the mosques for the five daily prayers or feeding the poor. So you see muslims today in general are a pathetic representation of islam.
.

Thank you for that now having said that do you not consider that said overreaction might have an effect on the non-muslims perception of muslims? Which was the point I was trying to make before I was told off.

Now you and many others will see the thinning numbers in the mosques, the modernization of 'muslim' women and their children trusting a stranger rather than their mother for guidance, or them becoming atheists as the sign of imperfection of islam :lol:

It is actually an explicit sign of the end of times given to us by Islam. so thank you for your observations as they confirm our faith in Islam. Indeed, the vast majority will abandon islam giving in to their desires and only a few faithful will remain. May Allah make me and my family belong to the few. Ameen!

No, I see it that they wish not to be muslims, but they are unable to leave because of the hurt that they would do their mother and the ostracisation that would follow from their own community,plus of course, you have the nut jobs who say the are apostates and are thus subject to the death sentence,as prescibed by Mohammed.

Well i missed the offer i think.

\The offer has never been withdrawn, obviously I cannot get here as much as I would like, there are the other boards and I have to look after my mother who has recently been in hospital.

If you want to discuss the life of Muhammad (pbuh) or some other aspect of Islam, please start a new thread.

No, thank you, why bother? everything he did was, to you, perfect and even though in my eyes he has been the subject of massive hagiography, he is like the Juwes.

 

[al-fajr]

Sounds like rule through fear,say anything we don't like and you die!

I know it is kill anyone who disagrees with us religion.

Impressive.

Get in touch with the local media outlet and offer them your skills.

 

[Aisha hussain..]

Top ten signs you're addicted to TTI:

10. You visit TTI at work.

9. You remember posts from 2005.

8. You reply to your own posts.

7. You keep playing the +2 and -2 game.

6. You erase your cookies so you can vote again.

5. Your day is ruined if the number of notifications is zero.

4. You access TTI from your cell phone.

3. You start a thread called "Are you addicted to TTI?"

2. You click on "New Posts" every other minute.

And the number 1 sign you're addicted to TTI is:

1. You turn to TTI more than you turn to Islam.

:salam2:

this is insane bt true almost every person knowing this website is addictive obiviously there is so much to do reading from revert stories to listning to nasheeds makes me feel it connects the ummah from around the world

:mashallah:

 

[Aisya al-Humaira]

Point is I did not disrespect him I just do not ascrtibe him the same slavish respect that muslims do



Who said that his was the only thread? This was one example from this and other noticeboards, did you not read that on the LI islamic board that aChristian womans distress was toatlly ignored? That was another threa. There are other threadsfrom MPACUk I coukd reference, or the BBC muslim boards or well why go on, if I referenced all of the thread I would overload the server, possibly.



Thank you for that now having said that do you not consider that said overreaction might have an effect on the non-muslims perception of muslims? Which was the point I was trying to make before I was told off.



No, I see it that they wish not to be muslims, but they are unable to leave because of the hurt that they would do their mother and the ostracisation that would follow from their own community,plus of course, you have the nut jobs who say the are apostates and are thus subject to the death sentence,as prescibed by Mohammed.



\The offer has never been withdrawn, obviously I cannot get here as much as I would like, there are the other boards and I have to look after my mother who has recently been in hospital.



No, thank you, why bother? everything he did was, to you, perfect and even though in my eyes he has been the subject of massive hagiography, he is like the Juwes.

Good evening Mr Artemis,

I hope your dear mother will get well soon.

I dont wish to say much nor I am judging and starting for an argument. As much as you respect our faith, we will respect yours too. "To you be your religion, and to me my religion."

However, I would like to say that I hope you dont 'judge' us, Muslims based on what you see through the media nor the talks of people who have hatred towards us. All this while, what you saw could be that of the people only, but not yet of what our faith teaches us. You once stated that you like reading and to increase knowledge, so I guess that leads you to come here and learn Islam. However you know your intentions better.

I know that you wanted to tell us the perceptions of non-Muslims towards us, however I remember this saying 'Seek first to understand, then to be understood'.

I hope my words didnt caused any offence. I pray to God, the Owner of Heaven and the Earth to forgive me of any wrongdoings and mistake.

Last but not least, sorry to the thread starter as this thread has been going far from the main topic. However, I hope that we will gain benefits of any goods that has been written down.

Have a nice day.

 

[suhayb08]

Not addicted, but love TTI!

 

[dodo]

Just joined it....warming up though

 

[Artemis]

Impressive.

Get in touch with the local media outlet and offer them your skills.

You mean when you said this:-
"This is not another turn the other cheek religion. " in #77 it was not meant as a somewhat unsubtle threat?
That when muslims go on the streets and threaten death is actually a sign of peace andforgiveness......... hmmm........thinks I must get a dictionary and check on peace.