I'm afraid my dear friend, that you will not find proof that Jesus is not God other than what the Qur'an teaches. The Bible which, according to Islamic doctrine, is a book full of lies, deceit, additions and subtractions. So the proof cannot be there. There are no other books that relate to the life and times of Yeshua(Jesus). The threads provided on this forum are not proofs as they as they quote the false and deceitful verses from the scriptures to try and prove Yeshua is not God.:salam2: Dear brothers and sisters there was a thread here of "proofs that jesus is not God". so could u give me the thread please? thank you.
I'm afraid my dear friend, that you will not find proof that Jesus is not God other than what the Qur'an teaches. The Bible which, according to Islamic doctrine, is a book full of lies, deceit, additions and subtractions. So the proof cannot be there. There are no other books that relate to the life and times of Yeshua(Jesus). The threads provided on this forum are not proofs as they as they quote the false and deceitful verses from the scriptures to try and prove Yeshua is not God.
Those same verses that convince "christians" otherwise. I guess the reason for that is the fact that they have taken the arduous task and spend many, many hours in studying the scriptures.
Why do you not accept what the Qur'an teaches, or is there something about the Qur'an that is not telling you something but can't quite pinpoint it? That is certainly the case with me.
I'm afraid my dear friend, that you will not find proof that Jesus is not God other than what the Qur'an teaches. The Bible which, according to Islamic doctrine, is a book full of lies, deceit, additions and subtractions. So the proof cannot be there. There are no other books that relate to the life and times of Yeshua(Jesus). The threads provided on this forum are not proofs as they as they quote the false and deceitful verses from the scriptures to try and prove Yeshua is not God.
Those same verses that convince "christians" otherwise. I guess the reason for that is the fact that they have taken the arduous task and spend many, many hours in studying the scriptures.
Why do you not accept what the Qur'an teaches, or is there something about the Qur'an that is not telling you something but can't quite pinpoint it? That is certainly the case with me.
As
Just look at the biblical accounts and the number of variations including the lost books:
gospels of according to mary magdene
gospels of thomas
gospel of barnabas
gospel of nazerene
the secret gospel of mark
gospel of judas
gospel of Q
.
I'm afraid my dear friend, that you will not find proof that Jesus is not God other than what the Qur'an teaches. The Bible which, according to Islamic doctrine, is a book full of lies, deceit, additions and subtractions. So the proof cannot be there. There are no other books that relate to the life and times of Yeshua(Jesus). The threads provided on this forum are not proofs as they as they quote the false and deceitful verses from the scriptures to try and prove Yeshua is not God.
Those same verses that convince "christians" otherwise. I guess the reason for that is the fact that they have taken the arduous task and spend many, many hours in studying the scriptures.
Why do you not accept what the Qur'an teaches, or is there something about the Qur'an that is not telling you something but can't quite pinpoint it? That is certainly the case with me.
I'm not here to preach the truth about Islam or christianity. I'm here to search the truth. Thank you.,Hi Bawar. Thanks for your input.Dear BGfromGB
Yes you are quite right. I have seen a lot, but not enough convincing, logical reasons to find the truth. The problem is that when I pose what I consider a convincing and logical reason in finding the truth, the topic in question is either prematurely terminated, or I am chastised by the moderator because I am accused of bringing the forum into disrepute by introducing a debate when this site is not about debate but rather rather a platform to gain more knowledge about Islam. Well sir, and with the greatest respect to the moderators, it is people like you who do provide non muslims such as myself the knowledge and indeed the truth about Islam. Just the other day some muslim scholars opened up to the Pope in an effort to muster better understanding of different religions. With the blessing from the almighty, this forum can do just that. What a great opportunity it would be for you to understand where christians are coming from. I'm no longer a christian but it is better to "evangelise" to them, from an Islamic perspective.I have seen you around for quiet a while and you have seen enough convincing and logical reasons to find the truth.I am studying both books. With time, patience and fortitude, the truth wiil be revealed. Is it Yeshua or is it Mohammed? That is the question muslims and christians must ask. But for me, as things presently stand, it is God/YHWH/Allah. He is not a religion. he is MY creator, my supreme being, my heavenly father.rather than tell them thing that may be missing is the grace of Allah, for you to allow the truth to enter your heart and bow to the ONE who deserves your worship.And peace to you and your family and your brothers in Islam.Peace
Hi Brotherzak. A good point you have there. Problem is the "gospel of Jesus" got lost. No one knows how, when or where. We do not know if this "Gospel" was preached. So how is it possible to believe in a gospel which no one knows anything about. As for the "Gospel about Jesus". If we did not have the Gospel about Jesus, then how would anyone, muslims included, know anything about "Jesus"As ahmed deedat brilliantly put it that Muslims believe the gospel of Jesus and not the Gospel about Jesus.
Then what did "Jesus" teach? His gospel got lost.We believe in what Jesus taught
. How could he? His "Bible" got lost. But youre right there, its fairly obvious.buts its fairly obvious that Jesus did not go around with a bible under his arm spreading his message to the lost tribesThat's debateable. If you believe in evolution then that's no problem. But I don't .I beleive God in God's creation that was manisested with in 6 days. I do not believe in the "Gap" theory. (one day is like a thousand years and all that prehistoric nonsense)Looking for proof of Jesus not being in God in the bible can be used only to illustrate to a Christian the evident evolution of the person of jesus; from a man to a God...
I may be wrong on this issue, but reading the sura is how I interpret it to be.As for the quran not telling you something i can't speculate on that. But the quranic and islamic account is objectively speaking is the most consistent in terms of what really happened to jesus and last days.Only you know the answer to these books as you have no doubt read and studied these books. I haven't. So I can't pass judgement or even speculate. Right now I am trying to see how and which parts of the present day scriptures have been corrupted. That's enough to keep me occupied for quite some time.Just look at the biblical accounts and the number of variations including the lost books:
gospels of according to mary magdene
gospels of thomas
gospel of barnabas
gospel of nazerene
the secret gospel of mark
gospel of judas
gospel of Q
That is what the scriptures teach. I accept what the scriptures teach, not what some communities believe.I can name more but this is enough to show the fact each had their own version of what happened to jesus and whether the resurrection happened. In fact some early communities believed that Jesus never died on the cross
They (meaning the Jews) did not kill him. That is quite correct. The scriptures tell us that it was the Romans who crucified Yeshua. If you read the preceeding 4 verses and the following 3 verses of sura 4:157 and the context it was written in reference to the Jews, then it suggests that the sura neither confirms nor denies the death of Yeshua.They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but they thought they did.” (Quran 4:156) “God lifted him up to His presence. God is Almighty, All-Wise” (Quran 4:157) .
Correct. The scriptures do not say Allah has children. But it does does say that Jesus is the son of God. God is my creator and I regard myself as a chi9ld of God. Is that blasphemy?Mr. BGfromGB Allaah(swt) does not haVE Children.!!!.John 1:1 suggests he is. But then according Islam that verse is considered a lie. I cannot prove is is NOT a lie. But then can you prove it IS a lie.Far exalted is he above what you have fabricated to His glory. If you say Jesus(pbuh) is god then you are crazy.
That's your assessment I'm not qualified to argue with you on that point.Abraham, moses(pbut) did not believe in such nonsense.Speak to God on that one. Not me.If jesus(pbuh) was God(swt) how did jesus a human create the giant universe?
The scriptures and the Quran say that God created the heavens and the earth in 6 days. I do not believe in the "gap" theory. I believe what God says.the human race only appeared recently in the ancient and ageless age of this universe? Jesus had a birth. God(swt) does not have a birth.
Hi Brotherzak. A good point you have there. Problem is the "gospel of Jesus" got lost. No one knows how, when or where. We do not know if this "Gospel" was preached. So how is it possible to believe in a gospel which no one knows anything about. As for the "Gospel about Jesus". If we did not have the Gospel about Jesus, then how would anyone, muslims included, know anything about "Jesus"
Then what did "Jesus" teach? His gospel got lost.
. How could he? His "Bible" got lost. But youre right there, its fairly obvious. That's debateable. If you believe in evolution then that's no problem. But I don't .I beleive God in God's creation that was manisested with in 6 days. I do not believe in the "Gap" theory. (one day is like a thousand years and all that prehistoric nonsense)
I may be wrong on this issue, but reading the sura is how I interpret it to be.
First of all you mentioned before in regards to another poster about evidence and when you will be convinced but i suggest you to avoid the philosophical stance of avoiding the fundamental standard of proof . Often what happens is that once a proof(quran) is established with clear reasoning and logic people will than ask for the proof of the proof of the proof leading to an infinite regression.
Now lets establish a fundamental standard of proof regarding the Gospel and its account of Jesus's life.
Anytime you have myriad of conflicting reports about a man's life(jesus) written by numerous authors known and unknown such as the mysterious q,it is bound to be unclear,ambiguous, and definitely inaccurate. How can you take your salvation on the whims of authors who wrote about a Jesus's life some 2 or 3 hundred years after his life based on an overaggerated oral history?
Why do i say evolution? I don't but many scholars hold such opinions. Just look at the early communities such as the unitarian who believed in the non-divinity of Jesus or the gnostics or the Nazere
nes.. after the council of nicea and the dominating church silencing dissenting gospels and literary burning some, it was inevitable that the pauline form of chirstianity won out simply because the church decided to advertise it...will you rest your entire salvation on the decision of the church which were essentially a group of men?. Essentially its risky buisness. Here if you want to be honest with yourself watch th
is scholary documentary on how the bible was assembled. Note the host is a christian who at the end of documentary is totally shocked on how offbase the traditional position of bible authenticity is.
A simple comparison between the Gospels and its depiction of Jesus with the "Song of Roland " a famous medieval poem written around 13 century."hich relates a real event in a fictitious light. It will be remembered that it describes an actual episode: Roland was leading Charlemagne's rear-guard when it was ambushed on the pass at Roncevaux. The episode which was of minor importance, is said to have taken place on the 15th August, 778 according to historical records (Eginhard). It was raised to the stature of a great feat of arms, a battle in a war of religion."---this is the nature of oral tradition and i fear this is what happened to the life of Jesus. A simple prophet commanding the people of the lost tribes to worship the god of Elah or Eloh Or allah(all the same derivates) and follow the commandements. Even a cursory study of the bible reveals no divinity, no trinity...and so on.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=who+wrote+the+bible&search=Search
also i suggest you read this online book about the quran and the bible in the light of science and authenticity..written by a non-muslim
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/MB_BQS/default.htm
Now the quran is a different case all together and i want you to remember what i said earlier about standard of proof. Its a consistent messsage about jesus life which is in line with what the earlier communities belived about Jesus(pbuh). Its miracously in the highest stature of arabic by an unlettered prophet. Its description is clear and concise without any confliction. Its a miracle how he could even relate such events in my opinion. From a logical perspective its clear the quran is the safer side.