did i gave my own fatwa?

[FaiQ_KhaLiFa]

:salam2:

i'm refering to the topic, "music and singing is clearly haram heres the proof", this thread had already been closed...

first of all, i never mean to protest agains our moderators that have been doing their best in monitering this forum. i never want that. but seems like i didn't been given the chance to defend myself, and to further my discussion on that topic.

i humbly ask for permission to my dear brother ibn azem, to further discuss it here, and i beg to differ.

the hadeth you brought,
The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:
“Among my ummah there will certainly be people who permit zinaa, silk, alcohol and musical instruments…” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari ta’leeqan, no. 5590; narrated as mawsool by al-Tabaraani and al-Bayhaqi. See al-Silsilah al-Saheehah by al-Albaani, 91).

yes, i'm aware of this hadeth. i learnt hadeth from several teachers, i memorise some, and still learning here. i learn the Quran, tafseer, lughatul arabiyyah, fiqh, tauheed, etc, and still learning right now, in a traditionil religious institution here in malaysia, we call "pondok". but i never ever consider myself as faqih or mujtahid. i have my reference to what i said.

for the above mentioned hadeth, scholars from long ago have had a very long discussion on it. the 'rowi' of this hadeth is Hisyam bin Ammar, and the 'sanad' continued up to Abu Aamir or Abu Malik al-Asy'aari form prophet Muhammad pbuh. the word in arabic that you translated it to musical intrument here is "al-ma'azif".

eventhough this hadeth was in the soheeh Bukhariy, but it feels under category of "mu'allaq" and not "musnad muttasil" (a complete continuous narrator from the latest up to the prophet Muhammad pbuh), therefore, Ibnu Hazmin had refused to use this hadeth as an argument due it its status. apart from that, some scholars said that there is idhtiraab (weakness at the sanad and matan) on that hadeth.

the problem is with Hisyam bin Ammar himself. Adu Dawood when commenting on Hisyam said: Hisyam has narated 400 hadeth with no basis at all.

Abu Hatim also criticised on Hisyam saying, "he is truthful, but he changed (at the later part of his life)".

Ibnu Sayyar said the same thing.

please refer to Hisyam's biography in Mizan al Iktidal, Tahzibut Tahzib by Ibnu Hajar, and Tazzibul Kamal by al Muzzi.

the list of scholars that criticised Hisyam goes on, and that include our beloved Imam Ahmad, but i think it is enough here.

Anyway, if we put the problem on the sanad (sorry i don't know what the best word to translate "sanad" into english, but it is the list os narrator or those who deliver a hadeth, from one generation to the other, up to prophet Muhammad pbuh), there is still another argument on the MEANING of the above mentioned hadeth.

first of all, the word "al-ma'azif" in this hadeth is still general. some says it is "al-malaahi" or musical instruments, some says it is "alatul 'azfi" or string musical instrument. however, even if it means all musical instruments, this hadeth still didn't give the meaning that it is ABSOLUTELY HARAAM.

this is because of the word, "yastahillun" translated as "they will permit..." in the hadeth. according to Ibnul Arabi, it has two meanings:
1) the exact meaning, that "they" really believe it is permissible.
2) or it is a majaz (in english, it means some hidden meaning, or another meaning, in Malay we called 'kiyasan', someone who knows Malay can please translate this..thanks). which actually means that "they" did it extremely or excessively. if we use the exact meaning, surely those who commit this become kafr, because permitting something that is prohibited such as zinaa and alcohol.

so we can argue, wether the prohibition of the musical instrument is because it presence together with other sins mentioned in that hadeth, that is zinaa, silk and alcohol? or each and every of those is prohibited on its own?

THE OPINION THAT THE MUSICAL INSTRUMENT IS PROHIBITED DUE TO THE PRESENCE OF THE OTHER MENTIONED SINS TOGETHER WITH IT, IS MUCH STRONGER.

actually this hadeth warned against the bad habit of humanbeing. they are drawn with luxuries, zinaa and alcohol. with wemon, sex, musics, parties, etc.
that is why, Ibn Majah narrated this hadeth in a different lafaz, from Abu Malik al-Asy'ari:
"Among my ummah there will certainly be people who drink alcohol and name it with other name. they are entertained with musics and female singers. Allah will punish them by beign swallowed by the earth, and He will turn some of them into monkeys and pigs..." (narrated Ibn Majah in chapter "fitnah", 4020).

the same goes to the hadeeth narrated by Ibn Hibban in his Soheeh (refer to al Ihsan, juz 15, hadeeth # 6758), and Al-Bukhariy in his Tarikh.

most scholars delivering this hadeeth (from Hisyam bin Ammar) said that it refers to the punishment for those who drink alcohol. "al ma'azif" or the musical instrument is as something that accompanying it.

THEREFORE, THIS HADEETH CANNOT BE USED AS AN ARGUMENT TO PROHIBIT MUSIC OR SINGING.

my dear brother ibn azem, this is not my own fatwa. together with me in this view is our 2nd Caliph ar Rosyideen, Sayyidina Omar r.a, Sayyidina Othman r.a., Sayyidina Abdur Rahmaan bin 'Auf r.a., Saad binAbi Waqqas r.a, Abu Mas'ud, Qarazah and Thabit bin Yazid, Abdullah bin Jaafar r.a, al Mughirah, Muawiyah, ibnu al Ass, Usamah bin Zaid, Bilal bin Robah r.a, Said bin al Musayyab, Salim bin Abdullah, Kharijah bin Zaid, Ato' bin Abi Rabah, Umar Bin Abdul Aziz, Ibnu Juraij, Ibn Sirin, Ubaidullah bin al Hassan, Imam Abu Hanifah, Imam Malik, Imam Asy-Syafie, Imam Ahmad, Ishak bin Ibrahim al Mausili, Sufyan bin Uyainah, etc... and not to mention, Asy Syeikh Dr. Yusuof Al-Qardawi.

i'm quite surprise to open up the thread and see my post has already been deleted, and i was accused of being given my own fatwa. how can one be so sure that they are in the right position when they didn't even listen to what the other has to say? that is not the way Islam teach us to deal with others who have different opinion with us. we cannot treat them unjust, if we do so, we will be doing zolim, or unjust to our own brother.

to have different opinion, is not a sin in Islam. if not, we will never have 4 mazhab, and more actually. that is why i said, it is khilafiyaat.

I love this beautiful deen, just like how you love it. i've been thought to love it ever since i know the true meaning of it. and will never be in my mind to mislead people from my own religion. may God guide us all to the right path.

wallahu a'lam.....

 

[presa1200]

Allow me to post this opinion:

I think music is not prohibited fully in Islam. If we conclude music is a lead to zina and alcohol and sex parties, then we should also conclude that Internet could be prohibited .. because internet lead to searching for illegal and sinful sex pictures and videos, and finally leading to the same scenario too.

i guess if we use something wisely without harm, that is not prohibited. and music also knowledge from Allah, we can use music to preach the beauty of Islam at its suitability and we know our borders.

 

[Abdul-Raheem]

:salam2:

This is really getting too much for me. If people wish to listen to music, despite all the evidence which has been brought forth, they can, not much I or anyone else can do. At the end of the day, this is between them and Allah and Allah is the ultimate Judge.

The Majority of Scholars are unanimous in the matter. But why do people chose to follow the opinion of a few? Because it gives them leave to follow their desires. One cannot let desires cloud their judgment. Like my Egpyitan teacher used to say, 'Music and Quran can never live in the same heart, one will push out the other'. Anyone disagrees with this statement, then go ahead and try it. Go follow your desires and listen to music, and then you will know deep inside and you will see how it distances you from the Quran.

Wasalam

 

[al-fajr]

salam,

'Music and Quran can never live in the same heart, one will push out the other'

wow that statement is a pearl of wisdom indeed i love it

jazakallah!

 

[presa1200]

:salam2:

This is really getting too much for me. If people wish to listen to music, despite all the evidence which has been brought forth, they can, not much I or anyone else can do. At the end of the day, this is between them and Allah and Allah is the ultimate Judge.

The Majority of Scholars are unanimous in the matter. But why do people chose to follow the opinion of a few? Because it gives them leave to follow their desires. One cannot let desires cloud their judgment. Like my Egpyitan teacher used to say, 'Music and Quran can never live in the same heart, one will push out the other'. Anyone disagrees with this statement, then go ahead and try it. Go follow your desires and listen to music, and then you will know deep inside and you will see how it distances you from the Quran.

Wasalam

i heard of people memorizing Quran (Hafiz) are not encouraged to take certain food, avoid any illegal sight and thoughts, and well behaved in order to assure the Quran stays tight in the heart. I never heard music is restricted 100%.

Dear brother Abdul Rahim, do you mind share with us, if you have any supports to show how actually music can push the Quran away from our heart? Does it mean that if we listening music will tend to forget what we memorized?

What about those muslim musician lived during the Islamic civilization in 9th century?

Thanks.

 

[ditta]

Asalamu Alykum,

Well since i stopped listneing to music i have learned more duas to learn on a day to day basis, i think its blocks the rubbish in music if you dont mind me saying. It makes you better person as well, as i have noticed. Inshallah you should try and stop listening to music regardless of what you may think if you dont mind me saying. I had the same thought a couple of weeks ago thinking "oh some songs will be fine to listen to", or that it will be difficult to give up, but Inshallah its been okay so far.

Just one thing in case if anyone has trouble giving up music try using Quran Explorer lovely site reccomended by many brothers and sisters, which i use if i have an urge to listen to a song, also delete all your music in your folders

Alhamdulilah

Wasalam

 

[presa1200]

Asalamu Alykum,

Well since i stopped listneing to music i have learned more duas to learn on a day to day basis, i think its blocks the rubbish in music if you dont mind me saying. It makes you better person as well, as i have noticed. Inshallah you should try and stop listening to music regardless of what you may think if you dont mind me saying. I had the same thought a couple of weeks ago thinking "oh some songs will be fine to listen to", or that it will be difficult to give up, but Inshallah its been okay so far.

Just one thing in case if anyone has trouble giving up music try using Quran Explorer lovely site reccomended by many brothers and sisters, which i use if i have an urge to listen to a song, also delete all your music in your folders

Alhamdulilah

Wasalam

Waalaikumsalam,

Congratulations on your achievement so far, and i hope you can do even better. Yes it's right that sometimes when we concentrating on certain thing especially learning islam, we should avoid other source of entertainment that will probably disturb our memory.

And i don't think music is 100% haraam or should be prohibited right away. Maybe we should do a little bit balancing our schedule and we know what kind of music really benefits us. We should learn to choose the correct way to entertain ourself.

If we feel tired after studying, maybe can listen to light arabic music, nasheed, instrumental, or else we can also go out and take a walk around the park and so on.

 

[FaiQ_KhaLiFa]

salam,

'Music and Quran can never live in the same heart, one will push out the other'

wow that statement is a pearl of wisdom indeed i love it

jazakallah!

well then, consider this:

imam al Bukhari from a hadeeth from ar Rubaiyyie' binti Mu'awwiz said: the prophet pbuh came at my wedding day, he entered and sat on my carpet at the distance as how you sit from me now. my jariah (female servants) were playing drums and singing, praising the greatness of my elderly that was killed in Badr war, untill one of them said: "and at our side is the prophet, who knows what will happen tomorrow..." then the prophet said: "leave those words, and say what have you said before"
soheeh Bukhariy (4001), chapter War and (5147) chapter Marriage, Abu Dawood (4922) chapter Ethics, at Tirmudzi (1090) chapter Announcing Marriage, an Nasaie in al Kubro and at Tuhfah (11/302), Ibn Hibban in hi soheeh (5878) and al Baihaqi 7/289 from Basyar bin al Mufaddhal.

and this one:
Ibn Hibban in his soheeh said, Aesya r.ha said:
a jariah from the Ansar was in my care, then i married her with a guy. when the prophet pbuh entered at that day, he found out there was no any singing or celebration. the he pbuh said: O Aesya, have you sing to celebrate it? (in other lafaz: don't you want to sing to celebrate it?) then the prophet pbuh said: truly Ansar brothers love singing.
soheeh Ibn Hibban (al Ihsan:5875).

and this:
an Nasaie in chapter: Entertaining Wife, hadeeth # 74, from as Saaib bin Yazid said: A lady came to meet Rasulullah pbuh, then he asked Aesya: "O Aesya, do you know who she is? Aesya said: no, O Messanger of Allah. Rasulullah pbuh then said: She is qayyinah bani fulan, do you want to listen to her song? then the lady sang for Aesya.

is there anyone here dare to say that the music and singing had pushed out the Quran from the heart of our beloved prophet Muhammad pbuh?

 

[Abdul-Raheem]

:salam2:

Does it say anything about singing with an electric guitar and a piano along with a full classical orchestra in the background in that hadith? I don't think so..... I did not say singing is haram, read my posts carefully. The majority of the Scholars are in agreement that is Music is HARAM. Some say that the exception is the small duff (drum).

wasalam

 

[presa1200]

well then, consider this:

imam al Bukhari from a hadeeth from ar Rubaiyyie' binti Mu'awwiz said: the prophet pbuh came at my wedding day, he entered and sat on my carpet at the distance as how you sit from me now. my jariah (female servants) were playing drums and singing, praising the greatness of my elderly that was killed in Badr war, untill one of them said: "and at our side is the prophet, who knows what will happen tomorrow..." then the prophet said: "leave those words, and say what have you said before"
soheeh Bukhariy (4001), chapter War and (5147) chapter Marriage, Abu Dawood (4922) chapter Ethics, at Tirmudzi (1090) chapter Announcing Marriage, an Nasaie in al Kubro and at Tuhfah (11/302), Ibn Hibban in hi soheeh (5878) and al Baihaqi 7/289 from Basyar bin al Mufaddhal.

and this one:
Ibn Hibban in his soheeh said, Aesya r.ha said:
a jariah from the Ansar was in my care, then i married her with a guy. when the prophet pbuh entered at that day, he found out there was no any singing or celebration. the he pbuh said: O Aesya, have you sing to celebrate it? (in other lafaz: don't you want to sing to celebrate it?) then the prophet pbuh said: truly Ansar brothers love singing.
soheeh Ibn Hibban (al Ihsan:5875).

and this:
an Nasaie in chapter: Entertaining Wife, hadeeth # 74, from as Saaib bin Yazid said: A lady came to meet Rasulullah pbuh, then he asked Aesya: "O Aesya, do you know who she is? Aesya said: no, O Messanger of Allah. Rasulullah pbuh then said: She is qayyinah bani fulan, do you want to listen to her song? then the lady sang for Aesya.

is there anyone here dare to say that the music and singing had pushed out the Quran from the heart of our beloved prophet Muhammad pbuh?

mayb we should balancing our needs. We shall never forget about learning Islam and Allah, and at same time we should know how to choose the right entertainment.

What if a non-muslim gets hidayah from listening nasheed and then he convert to islam? Shall we say music is haraam in this case?

 

[FaiQ_KhaLiFa]

:salam2:

actually what i want to emphasize here is that, we should be careful before we say that, that is HARAAM, this is HALAL, etc. we might end up prohibiting what is permitted, or permitting what is prohibited. and either one is no lesser a sin than the other.

perhaps to some people, music will infuence them to do bad things, or might disturb his concentration from learning the religion, or from doing ibadah. but we can't deny the fact that music did make some people remember Allah, the Rasulullah saw, etc, at least myself when i listen to nasheed.

just because you feel that music will disturb your concentration, you can never said that it is HARAAM.

i think many will surprise if i put here the story of the prophet companions, the tabieen, and others that did listen to songs and music, but yet they were the best Ummah, of all times...

 

[Abdul-Raheem]

:salam2:

First things first, why do you evade my question? It says nothing in the hadith you've mentioned about the use of musical instruments. Only singing and the use of a duff. Secondly, there is nothing wrong with nasheeds, read the rulings regarding islamic nasheeds using the search function. I like listening to nasheeds now and then and I've posted many on this forum, but have a look at them and you'll see that they contain no musical instruments.

wasalam

 

[presa1200]

:salam2:

actually what i want to emphasize here is that, we should be careful before we say that, that is HARAAM, this is HALAL, etc. we might end up prohibiting what is permitted, or permitting what is prohibited. and either one is no lesser a sin than the other.

perhaps to some people, music will infuence them to do bad things, or might disturb his concentration from learning the religion, or from doing ibadah. but we can't deny the fact that music did make some people remember Allah, the Rasulullah saw, etc, at least myself when i listen to nasheed.

just because you feel that music will disturb your concentration, you can never said that it is HARAAM.

i think many will surprise if i put here the story of the prophet companions, the tabieen, and others that did listen to songs and music, but yet they were the best Ummah, of all times...

for me, i prefer listening to light instrumental and nasheed sometimes... and i still can study and memorize the Quran. InsyaAllah.

maybe certain music is illegal, such as black metal and hard rock. i don't think it is suitable for muslim. Especially those will totally lead to forget about Allah and syirik.

what if someone who are born well talented in music and he finds rezki with music? we can't ask him to stop performing music right away....

 

[ShaheedU]

mayb we should balancing our needs. We shall never forget about learning Islam and Allah, and at same time we should know how to choose the right entertainment.

What if a non-muslim gets hidayah from listening nasheed and then he convert to islam? Shall we say music is haraam in this case?

IF the apparent 'Nasheed' IS in fact HARAAM, the you will absolutely tell him that it is haraam. Who are you to decide what part of Islaam to keep away from him?
And when you do your duty of forbidding the evil, and he doesnt like it, then know truly that ONLY Allaah guides and misguides.


Furthermore, there WAS a reason this thread was closed! Its because this argument is going nowhere!!!
May Allaah guide us all. Ameen.

 

[presa1200]

:salam2:

First things first, why do you evade my question? It says nothing in the hadith you've mentioned about the use of musical instruments. Only singing and the use of a duff. Secondly, there is nothing wrong with nasheeds, read the rulings regarding islamic nasheeds using the search function. I like listening to nasheeds now and then and I've posted many on this forum, but have a look at them and you'll see that they contain no musical instruments.

wasalam

i thought you were saying: 'Music and Quran can never live in the same heart, one will push out the other'

i assume you totally don't listen to any kind of music, brother.

Forgive me if i misunderstood.

Correct me if i am wrong.

For sure Allah is the ultimate Judge

Wallahu a'lam

 

[Abdul-Raheem]

:salam2:

That post wasn't directed at you brother, and yes, I don't listen to music, otherwise I'd be a pretty big hypocrite right?

wasalam

 

[presa1200]

IF the apparent 'Nasheed' IS in fact HARAAM, the you will absolutely tell him that it is haraam. Who are you to decide what part of Islaam to keep away from him?
And when you do your duty of forbidding the evil, and he doesnt like it, then know truly that ONLY Allaah guides and misguides.


Furthermore, there WAS a reason this thread was closed! Its because this argument is going nowhere!!!
May Allaah guide us all. Ameen.

Assalamualaikum ShaheedU,

i think you get misunderstood with me. Some said music haraam, while some try to give up listening to music.

well, i'm not deciding which part of Islam is halal or haraam... and surely i won't do so.

I just raised a question, if anyone saying music is totally haraam, then what if a non-muslim converted into Islam by listening Nasheed?

I hope you get my meaning.

forgive me if i'm wrong.

 

[FaiQ_KhaLiFa]

:salam2:

Does it say anything about singing with an electric guitar and a piano along with a full classical orchestra in the background in that hadith? I don't think so..... I did not say singing is haram, read my posts carefully. The majority of the Scholars are in agreement that is Music is HARAM. Some say that the exception is the small duff (drum).

wasalam

neither do i, my dear brother... i never said that there were electric guitar or piano or whatsoever in that hadeeth... did i? even if there were, are there any problem?

what i disgree is when you say, music will make someone far from the Quran. even if it is true with you, when you listen to music it push the Quran out from your heart, you may not guarentee it will be the same to others.

and the problem here is, you said you are in the majority, but i also said the same.

Anyway, even there is only a small minority said the other way, it will naver ever be an ABSOLUTE HUKM. thus it will never be an absolute HARAAM, neither it will be ABSOLUTE HALAL. as i said, it is khilafiyyah. we can see how Ibnu Taymiyyah have the different opinion with all the 4 mazhabs in the matter of Devorce and other, untill he being jailed and tortured just because he stick with his opinion.

 

[Abdul-Raheem]

Assalamualaikum ShaheedU,


I just raised a question, if anyone saying music is totally haraam, then what if a non-muslim converted into Islam by listening Nasheed?

forgive me if i'm wrong.

:salam2:

Most nasheeds don't contain music but if it did, then someone becoming muslim as a result wouldn't make music halal would it? Many people have become muslim as a result of a lot of negative things, eg, the anti islam stance of news agencies, near death experiences, friendships with VERY bad muslims. That doesn't mean we go around encouraging the media's hate campaign against islam, causing near death collisions etc......

wasalam

 

[FaiQ_KhaLiFa]

IF the apparent 'Nasheed' IS in fact HARAAM, the you will absolutely tell him that it is haraam. Who are you to decide what part of Islaam to keep away from him?
And when you do your duty of forbidding the evil, and he doesnt like it, then know truly that ONLY Allaah guides and misguides.


Furthermore, there WAS a reason this thread was closed! Its because this argument is going nowhere!!!
May Allaah guide us all. Ameen.

dear brother who love God and God love you,
this discussion will be going somewhere if we can share what the prove from the Quran or hadith to support our view. then we can check that prove as how i did on my 1st post.