lions_den1
Ahle Sunnah wal Jama
I need help from brothers to refute the below misguided opinion expresses by a work collegue... He does not believe in following the Sunnah of prophet (pbuh)
He said...
Salaams
Here is a MUCH shorter abridged version. Now this is as simple as I believe it gets. Don't think it can be distilled down any more...
After I verified that there is a God, and then I verified that this Quran is from God. Then, here's a summary of what I currently understand from the Quran about this issue:
- The Prophet and Messenger is not the same. The Messenger is the state that the prophet is in when he is speaking God's message - perfectly - so God said Obey the Messenger. Now, see 66:1 - why does God use the word prophet there? Because that's what the prophet did, not the Messenger.
- Obeying God and obeying the Messenger is the same thing [Quran 4:80].
--We can only know what God says from the Messenger.
--The Messenger can only speak what God says ([Quran 69:40-46], [Quran 4:150] ).
- God preserved His message [Quran 15:9]. Now, what does He say about "hadith"? See 77:50, 7:185, 31:6, 45:6, 39:23, 52:34, 68:44 - see the arabic word "Hadith" in these verses.
- The duty of the Messenger is ONLY to clearly deliver the Message [Quran 5:92], [Quran 16:81-82], [Quran 29:18], [Quran 64:12], [Quran 24:54].
--How to obey him? Obey what he ONLY does (only delivers the Message). He warns with the Quran whomever it reaches (it reached us also) [Quran 6:19]. He reminds with the Quran to those who revere God’s promise [Quran 50:45].
- Therefore, the duty of explaining the Quran is NOT for the Messenger, it's for God. [Quran 75:19]
Some people might come to say "but the prophet said..." this and that - Can you sincerely verify that he said it? This one said that one said... So it's true?
I want to worship God, not a man. I respect good men, but not worship/obey them.
Who do you want to Worship? God?
- Then you should obey Him.
How to Obey God?
- Obey what he tells you.
How does he tell you?
- Through his Messenger.
Therefore, 4:80 Whoever obeys the messenger has obeyed God; and whoever turns away, We have not sent you as a guardian over them.
Therefore, "Obey God and obey the Messenger" = worship God.
NOT "Obey God and obey the hadith books about prophet Muhammad".
By the way, there's so much you can find in the hadith books, everything you might want, probably the book referred here:
68:36 What is wrong with you, how do you judge?
68:37 Or do you have another book which you study?
68:38 In it, you can find what you wish?
(See 6:114, also.)
The Quran is complete/fully detailed. But for some (many), it doesn't have what they like to see in it, so they go and see the Hadith books, they'll find just about anything they want - even though contradicting - they choose what they wish. May God guide & forgive.
May God Guide.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I said to him before this....
In the Name of Allah the the Most Merciful the Most Beneficient
All the referances that you sent me only confirm that we need to follow the Quran and the Sunnah. There is not a single ayah is the Quran that says 'Follow only the Quran" or "Don't listen to, or obey the messenger (Muhammed)", (if you can find any such ayat please i would love to read the explaination of it!!)
Rather the evidence from the Quran actually disapproves of your beliefs. (as i will explain mention below).
Also i think you are confused with the shariyah definition of Sunnah and hadith (the authentic and fabriacted) and also the definition of 'following the prophet Muhammed'.
As for the Sunnah it means= lit. Legal ways, actions, method of worship, or statements of the prophet Muhammed (pbuh) that have become models for muslims to follow.
Hadith= Saying, consent and approval of the messenger of Allah (pbuh). They are of different grades depending on the authenticity of narration. Some are fabricated and we reject, some are muthawathir (unanoumous) due to the sheer number of trust worthy people who narrated them.
Sharia= is the dynamic body of islamic law. The term means "way" or "path to the water source"; it is the legal framework (eg. prohibitions and obligations) within which the public and some private aspects of life are regulated for those living in a legal system based on muslim principles of jurisprudence. Sharia deals with many aspects of day-to-day life, including politics, economics, banking, business law, contract law, family, sexuality, hygiene, and social issues.
How can you hear an authentic hadith (eg. from Sahih Bukhari) and then refuse to accept, or follow or impliment it? hiding behind a 'fancy' explanation like 'i don't believe the sunnah is a source of shariya'!!
can you prove to me from the Quran that the Sunnah is not a source of shariyah? you have not so far- except by your own twisted explanation.
Where are your scholars who understand the Quran? who do they refer to? where did they get thier understanding from?
It all boils down to the messenger of Allah and his companions. It was to them, about them, that the Quran was revealed and they in turn, they bought it to the world and eventually reaching us.
So who would understand this Quran better and it's application other than them? and did they not implement it in thier own lives?
And when the messenger of Allah made dua to Allah to give ibn Abbas the correct understanding of the Quran? Do you think Allh rejected that dua? Or did the companions consider ibn abbas to be the most knowledgable amongst them with regurads to the Quran? i think you know the answer.
The sahabi were eagar to emmulate the prophet (pbuh) in his every actions. Can you find a single sahabi with the same understanding of Islam as your self? I didn't think so.
So why don't you, or your scholars (if you have any) refer to the messenger of Allah and his companions to understand the Quran rather than your own ration and desire?
There is only three ayat i need to quote to you, and insha Allah if you research them properly- from the correct sources- this 'sunnah is not a source of shariya' ideology will crumble between your hands like dry sand...
The messenger of Allah does not speak from his own desires.
His words 'hadith' are a form of inspiration from Allah
"Your comapnion (muhammed) has neither gone astray nor has erred. Nor does he speak of (his own) desires. It is only a revealation. (Surah Najm 2-3)
We are commanded by Allah to emmulate the messenger of Allah because he was the embodiment of the Quran.
"Indeed in the messenger of Allah (Muhammed) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes for (the meeting with) Allah and the Last Day, and remebers Allah much" (Surah Ahzab 33:21)
Haidth= the sayings of the messenger of Allah= source of shariyah= prohibitions and commandment ect
"What ever the messenger (Muhammed) gives you take it, and what ever he forbids you, abstain from it" (59:7)
And if you persist in your disbelief- then know that Allah does not like the disbelievers.
"It is not for a believing man or woman, when Allah and His messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any opinion in thier decision. Amd who ever disobeys Allah and His messenger, he has indeed strayed into plain error"
He said...
Salaams
Here is a MUCH shorter abridged version. Now this is as simple as I believe it gets. Don't think it can be distilled down any more...
After I verified that there is a God, and then I verified that this Quran is from God. Then, here's a summary of what I currently understand from the Quran about this issue:
- The Prophet and Messenger is not the same. The Messenger is the state that the prophet is in when he is speaking God's message - perfectly - so God said Obey the Messenger. Now, see 66:1 - why does God use the word prophet there? Because that's what the prophet did, not the Messenger.
- Obeying God and obeying the Messenger is the same thing [Quran 4:80].
--We can only know what God says from the Messenger.
--The Messenger can only speak what God says ([Quran 69:40-46], [Quran 4:150] ).
- God preserved His message [Quran 15:9]. Now, what does He say about "hadith"? See 77:50, 7:185, 31:6, 45:6, 39:23, 52:34, 68:44 - see the arabic word "Hadith" in these verses.
- The duty of the Messenger is ONLY to clearly deliver the Message [Quran 5:92], [Quran 16:81-82], [Quran 29:18], [Quran 64:12], [Quran 24:54].
--How to obey him? Obey what he ONLY does (only delivers the Message). He warns with the Quran whomever it reaches (it reached us also) [Quran 6:19]. He reminds with the Quran to those who revere God’s promise [Quran 50:45].
- Therefore, the duty of explaining the Quran is NOT for the Messenger, it's for God. [Quran 75:19]
Some people might come to say "but the prophet said..." this and that - Can you sincerely verify that he said it? This one said that one said... So it's true?
I want to worship God, not a man. I respect good men, but not worship/obey them.
Who do you want to Worship? God?
- Then you should obey Him.
How to Obey God?
- Obey what he tells you.
How does he tell you?
- Through his Messenger.
Therefore, 4:80 Whoever obeys the messenger has obeyed God; and whoever turns away, We have not sent you as a guardian over them.
Therefore, "Obey God and obey the Messenger" = worship God.
NOT "Obey God and obey the hadith books about prophet Muhammad".
By the way, there's so much you can find in the hadith books, everything you might want, probably the book referred here:
68:36 What is wrong with you, how do you judge?
68:37 Or do you have another book which you study?
68:38 In it, you can find what you wish?
(See 6:114, also.)
The Quran is complete/fully detailed. But for some (many), it doesn't have what they like to see in it, so they go and see the Hadith books, they'll find just about anything they want - even though contradicting - they choose what they wish. May God guide & forgive.
May God Guide.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I said to him before this....
In the Name of Allah the the Most Merciful the Most Beneficient
All the referances that you sent me only confirm that we need to follow the Quran and the Sunnah. There is not a single ayah is the Quran that says 'Follow only the Quran" or "Don't listen to, or obey the messenger (Muhammed)", (if you can find any such ayat please i would love to read the explaination of it!!)
Rather the evidence from the Quran actually disapproves of your beliefs. (as i will explain mention below).
Also i think you are confused with the shariyah definition of Sunnah and hadith (the authentic and fabriacted) and also the definition of 'following the prophet Muhammed'.
As for the Sunnah it means= lit. Legal ways, actions, method of worship, or statements of the prophet Muhammed (pbuh) that have become models for muslims to follow.
Hadith= Saying, consent and approval of the messenger of Allah (pbuh). They are of different grades depending on the authenticity of narration. Some are fabricated and we reject, some are muthawathir (unanoumous) due to the sheer number of trust worthy people who narrated them.
Sharia= is the dynamic body of islamic law. The term means "way" or "path to the water source"; it is the legal framework (eg. prohibitions and obligations) within which the public and some private aspects of life are regulated for those living in a legal system based on muslim principles of jurisprudence. Sharia deals with many aspects of day-to-day life, including politics, economics, banking, business law, contract law, family, sexuality, hygiene, and social issues.
How can you hear an authentic hadith (eg. from Sahih Bukhari) and then refuse to accept, or follow or impliment it? hiding behind a 'fancy' explanation like 'i don't believe the sunnah is a source of shariya'!!
can you prove to me from the Quran that the Sunnah is not a source of shariyah? you have not so far- except by your own twisted explanation.
Where are your scholars who understand the Quran? who do they refer to? where did they get thier understanding from?
It all boils down to the messenger of Allah and his companions. It was to them, about them, that the Quran was revealed and they in turn, they bought it to the world and eventually reaching us.
So who would understand this Quran better and it's application other than them? and did they not implement it in thier own lives?
And when the messenger of Allah made dua to Allah to give ibn Abbas the correct understanding of the Quran? Do you think Allh rejected that dua? Or did the companions consider ibn abbas to be the most knowledgable amongst them with regurads to the Quran? i think you know the answer.
The sahabi were eagar to emmulate the prophet (pbuh) in his every actions. Can you find a single sahabi with the same understanding of Islam as your self? I didn't think so.
So why don't you, or your scholars (if you have any) refer to the messenger of Allah and his companions to understand the Quran rather than your own ration and desire?
There is only three ayat i need to quote to you, and insha Allah if you research them properly- from the correct sources- this 'sunnah is not a source of shariya' ideology will crumble between your hands like dry sand...
The messenger of Allah does not speak from his own desires.
His words 'hadith' are a form of inspiration from Allah
"Your comapnion (muhammed) has neither gone astray nor has erred. Nor does he speak of (his own) desires. It is only a revealation. (Surah Najm 2-3)
We are commanded by Allah to emmulate the messenger of Allah because he was the embodiment of the Quran.
"Indeed in the messenger of Allah (Muhammed) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes for (the meeting with) Allah and the Last Day, and remebers Allah much" (Surah Ahzab 33:21)
Haidth= the sayings of the messenger of Allah= source of shariyah= prohibitions and commandment ect
"What ever the messenger (Muhammed) gives you take it, and what ever he forbids you, abstain from it" (59:7)
And if you persist in your disbelief- then know that Allah does not like the disbelievers.
"It is not for a believing man or woman, when Allah and His messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any opinion in thier decision. Amd who ever disobeys Allah and His messenger, he has indeed strayed into plain error"
was a walikng quran ( i'm loosely translating ) therefore if he was that, his example his way of life and us following that way of life is essential if we ever hope to enter jannah al-firdaus. who on this earth practiced islam better than our beloved prophey muhammad