Muslim attitudes and jobs.

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abu_tamim

Junior Member
:salam2:

The Muslim Attitude and Jobs in India.

Al Salamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh.

Often Muslims talk of a lack of availability of jobs. This lack of availability of jobs in a majority of cases is due to lack of educational qualifications, lack of fluency in national languages and English, failure to impress the interviewing team in the interview, lack of experience etc etc. However, whenever our people are faced with a refusal they seem to be able to think of only one thing: Islam. "I was not given the job because I was a Muslim, because I had a beard, because I wore a cap during the interview......." Buddy, could it be because you failed your 10th standard and the fellow who got the job passed his 12th with first class? Could it be because you could not speak a single, coherent sentence in English when asked to do so by your interviewer whereas your competitors could write essays and articles in the language? Could it be because you are searching for a job 6 years after your graduation and have no experience in that interim period and no explanation that could satisfy a rational person? Could it be because you were called for your interview at 11.00 am Indian Standard Time but you turned up at 11.00 am Muslim Standard Time?

While prejudices, hatred and jealousy cannot be ruled out particularly in undeveloped, backward and uncultured nations like India, there is no denying the fact that Muslims are denied jobs for just reasons in the majority of cases. Indeed, if the entire team of interviewers was composed of Muslims, it would be difficult for them to take more than two out of ten Muslim candidates for any class III or class IV job and maybe 1 in 10,000 for a class I job, such is the state of our Ummah. If the Muslims were to educate themselves, open their eyes to reality, learn to compete in a healthy fashion with the non Muslims for the jaiz things of this world, then more than 90% of their imaginary complaints against their imaginary enemies would disappear.
Presently I am Chief of Internal Medicine and Diabetologist for a UK & Singapore based Multinational. I did not know of the company or its plans or its interviews until I got a call from a UK based doctor asking me to go for the interview. Anyways, I turned up at the Suburban 5 star Hotel after calling up and attended the session. My interview was taken by the Director of India Operations and the Singapore Head of the Company. After somedays I was called again to the interview venue. The Singaporean, Mr J Goh in the course of our conversation said, "You have something that we are looking for....and which we identify with our company.......I won't say religion...rather spirituality.....which is why we want you for the post......"
So obviously, my Muslim identity(which is rather obvious on my face) was not a barrier to my being appointed. Au contraire, it became a sort of attraction for people who must be used to meeting and dealing with thousands of people daily.

I think that it is time that we tighten our belt and start working hard instead of moaning and whining about what wasn't because we did not have the courage to do it.

Wa salamu 'alaykum.

:wasalam:
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

I have to admit I find this very difficult to digest. India..uncultured??? Please do not insult the land of my ancestors.
India is cultured. It is offensive to call any nation backwards. Millions still flock to India for its beauty and what it has given to the world.

This is extremely subjective. I am pleased you were blessed with a job. How about making dua for those who less fortunate.
 

Isra

aka Tree2008
Assalaam walaikum,

I have to admit I find this very difficult to digest. India..uncultured??? Please do not insult the land of my ancestors.
India is cultured. It is offensive to call any nation backwards. Millions still flock to India for its beauty and what it has given to the world.

This is extremely subjective. I am pleased you were blessed with a job. How about making dua for those who less fortunate.

As salamo alaikome

Seriously out of the brothers ENTIRE post this is the only thing you could think of to comment? Really? I mean come on I am from the USA born and raised and I cant tell you HOW many times I have seen derogatory remarks about my country on this website!!! You dont see me snapping each time someone says something negative do you?

I have noticed on this website lately that many people have had thin skins about the most minor of things. So do we always need to argue? Do we have to say something EVERY time someone rubs us the wrong way or could we just for once turn the other cheek? Be the bigger person?

I really dont think the brother meant anything bad with what he said in his post and if that is his opinion about the country hes speaking of then thats just it..........HIS opinion! It doesnt make what he says true or false! Its just his opinion! Cant you just ignore it? Let it go.......brush it off and move on to more important things like world hunger or how the Arab nations are killing and torturing their own people! THAT is worth getting upset about!!!!

May Allah forgive me if I said something wrong.

Wa salam
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

Yes, it is the truth. We, as Muslims, really should not be comparative in our conditions.
The truth is India is a land of culture. And I do believe there are millions who would describe the wonders of India better than I.
It is the land that produced the likes of a Ghandi and an Iqbal..and that just for starters.

The brother's post upon analysis is troublesome.

I have written a few posts on the underlying attitudes and mores that were subtly transmitted from a colonial era. His opinion is that of one who lacks understanding of the very culture he is ashamed. The perfect example of this is the showing up on time. Time is culturally relative. That is not a sign of someone who is backwards or rude. Some, like the English are punctual for some unknown reason.

Muslims I know from experience can not tell time. I could poll the members of TTI and I believe with an accuracy of 99.99% Muslims can not tell time: weddings, dinners, lectures...we run on Muslim time...even to prayers.

It could be the intention of the brother is in the correct place; but the wording was poor.


I would appreciate a thread discussing the use of language and its manipulation by the oppressors.

We are to cover the sins of our brothers and sisters. And, sister I have defended my country many a times on this website. I too, am an American.
 

abu_tamim

Junior Member
Assalaam walaikum,

I have to admit I find this very difficult to digest. India..uncultured??? Please do not insult the land of my ancestors.
India is cultured. It is offensive to call any nation backwards. Millions still flock to India for its beauty and what it has given to the world.

This is extremely subjective. I am pleased you were blessed with a job. How about making dua for those who less fortunate.

:wasalam:

Sister, I live in the land of your ancestors. If India was so cultured, I wonder why you and yours ran away to the US? Day in and day out we deal with prejudices and hatred because we are practising Muslims in this "cultured" land. But as you said, it is something subjective. Someone might call the US uncultured.
In so far as making dua' for those less fortunate is concerned, yes, my dua' is with the entire Ummah. But that is not the issue here. The issue is that the world is dar ul asbab. There is no free lunch out here. If we are to compete for jobs then we need preparations for it, not a losers' attitude.
 

abu_tamim

Junior Member
Assalaam walaikum,

Yes, it is the truth. We, as Muslims, really should not be comparative in our conditions.
The truth is India is a land of culture. And I do believe there are millions who would describe the wonders of India better than I.
It is the land that produced the likes of a Ghandi and an Iqbal..and that just for starters.

The brother's post upon analysis is troublesome.

I have written a few posts on the underlying attitudes and mores that were subtly transmitted from a colonial era. His opinion is that of one who lacks understanding of the very culture he is ashamed. The perfect example of this is the showing up on time. Time is culturally relative. That is not a sign of someone who is backwards or rude. Some, like the English are punctual for some unknown reason.

Muslims I know from experience can not tell time. I could poll the members of TTI and I believe with an accuracy of 99.99% Muslims can not tell time: weddings, dinners, lectures...we run on Muslim time...even to prayers.

It could be the intention of the brother is in the correct place; but the wording was poor.


I would appreciate a thread discussing the use of language and its manipulation by the oppressors.

We are to cover the sins of our brothers and sisters. And, sister I have defended my country many a times on this website. I too, am an American.


Assalaam walaikum,

:wasalam:

Yes, it is the truth. We, as Muslims, really should not be comparative in our conditions.

Why?

The truth is India is a land of culture. And I do believe there are millions who would describe the wonders of India better than I.

Sitting in the US or UK?

It is the land that produced the likes of a Ghandi and an Iqbal..and that just for starters.

Iqbal would not have identified himself with India.

The brother's post upon analysis is troublesome.

I can see that.

I have written a few posts on the underlying attitudes and mores that were subtly transmitted from a colonial era.

The greatest desire that the colonialists left was in the heart of the colonials to migrate to the West.

His opinion is that of one who lacks understanding of the very culture he is ashamed.

I am ashamed of what is wrong in my culture, not my culture itself. That should have been obvious from my post. But I see that prejudices die hard.

The perfect example of this is the showing up on time. Time is culturally relative. That is not a sign of someone who is backwards or rude. Some, like the English are punctual for some unknown reason.

So in America, do you turn up on time or not? Do you consider it rude to turn up at 11am for a 9 am appointment or not? Or do you walk in late and say, " OOOOOOO..time is culturally relative, you know? In my culture we always walk in 2 hours late."
Are you even thinking before writing nonsense?


Muslims I know from experience can not tell time.

Why? Are they retarded? Are they learning handicapped? dyslexic? I am a Muslim and I can tell time. I know Muslims who can tell time and reach on time. Which Muslims are you in touch with? Anyways, I see that this is one point that you seem to agree with in my post....that "many" Muslims don't come on time. And that is a problem.

I could poll the members of TTI and I believe with an accuracy of 99.99% Muslims can not tell time: weddings, dinners, lectures...we run on Muslim time...even to prayers.

Well...then run a poll and see.

It could be the intention of the brother is in the correct place; but the wording was poor.

Everyone thinks that he is right. I leave myself on your opinion.

I would appreciate a thread discussing the use of language and its manipulation by the oppressors.

....by the oppressors in whose lap you are sitting?

We are to cover the sins of our brothers and sisters. And, sister I have defended my country many a times on this website. I too, am an American

divided loyalties?
 

ilyas_eh

Used to be active here!
well written article. If only people dont get all sensitive and accept the truth as it is and work on our mistakes, insha Allah, our brothers/sisters from India will be successful and real asset for the Ummah.
 

Isra

aka Tree2008
We are to cover the sins of our brothers and sisters. And, sister I have defended my country many a times on this website. I too, am an American

divided loyalties?

As salamo alaikome

I see brother abu_tamim already said pretty much everything I was thinking and more. I wanted to quote this part of brother abu_tamim post because I totally agree with what he said here! My ancestors originate from Hungary but if someone were to say something derogatory about Hungary Im not going to post to them about it. Whatever they say its their opinion and it wont come true or be a shared opinion by others just because one person said it.

BUT I am getting sidetracked now because in my original post which was aimed at everyone on this website (not just Aapa), I wanted to try to point out that we as Muslims dont need to ALWAYS be so critical about the words our brothers or sisters use to get their point across. Another persons opinion should be treated as just that.....his or her opinion and not FACT!

We should not be arguing over petty things when there is so much hate and hate crimes going on in the world AGAINST Muslims!!!!! We should remain a united front against all the evil that is happening to our Muslim brothers and sisters around the world! I believe once we begin to criticize each other for the tiniest of flaws that is the thread which will unravel our Ummah!

One day inshallah I would love to come on TTI and just read pleasant conversation between my brothers and sisters without any sort of arguing! I know this isnt a perfect world and feelings get hurt and feathers get ruffled but ask yourself one question.........is this really the way we should be dealing with each other since we are all Muslims? We are all on the same side here yet half the time we speak to each other as if we were talking to the enemy!!!! Think about that for a moment. Thats all Im saying.

wa salam
 

Mr. India

New Member
A recent study, finds that getting a call for interview can be reduced to as much as 33% for a candidate with Muslim names compared to an equivalent-qualified candidate with high caste Hindu name.

Study was lead by Chairperson of the University Grants Commission Prof. Sukhdeo Thorat and Paul Attewell of City University of New York. Beginning in October 2005 and lasting 66 weeks the study involved responding to job advertisements appearing in national and regional English newspapers with sets of resumes that were similar except for names. For each advertised position researchers sent applications with identical qualifications and experience that differed only in names. There was no explicit mention of caste or religion but names were easily identifiable as upper caste Hindu name, Dalit or Muslim names.

Only private companies were targeted and jobs that required little or no experience. In 66 weeks, researchers sent 4808 applications in response to 548 job advertisements. A call for interview or for a written test was considered a success for that application. Researchers were looking to see if chances of receiving an interview call are same for a high caste, a Dalit and a Muslim name.

Two statistical methods on the data resulted in a similar outcome. One method suggested that odds for a Dalit name is 0.67 and for a Muslim name is 0.33 to receive an interview call as compared to an equally qualified applicant with a high caste Hindu name. Another method gave the odds 0.68 and 0.35 for Dalits and Muslims, respectively. Both statistical models results are statistically significant which means that it is highly unlikely for this to happen by random chance.

The researchers concluded that “[h]aving a high-caste name considerably improves a job applicant’s chances of a positive outcome” adding that “on average, college-educated lower-caste and Muslim job applicants fare less well than equivalently- qualified applicants with high caste names, when applying by mail for employment with the modern private-enterprise sector.”

and here you can get other figure
http://twocircles.net/2007aug11/illiterate_landless_muslims_three_levels_vulnerability.html
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

Thank you brother. The truth always speaks for itself.

I do firmly believe that we need a thread on how to deconstruct language that is laden with socio-linguistic verbiage.

As to the brother who wishes to know whose lap I sit on..I am the top poster on this website...please take a moment to read some of my voluminous responses. Insha'Allah, you will recognize there is an independent spirit whose Love and Fear of Allah is the reason I write.

From a historical perspective many blame the west yet they forget Islam has been around in the west and specifically the US for 400 plus years. Muslims have built communities and work diligently to spread the faith that Allah has told us is His religion and we continue to do so.

There are generations of Muslims who have been born and bred in the good ole USA. We did not migrate to the west. And we remain firm Muslims, we are constantly educating people on the need for Islam, we hold on to our faith.
Thus there are no divided loyalties. My loyalty is to my God, and there is none other than Allah.

As to Sister Isra..why do you not start a post that would be on your comfort level. That is really the bottom line. We can not limit discussion to the comfort level of a person. That is pure emotion.

I was attempting to discuss a far more serious matter. The article posted by Brother Mr. India does justice. There is discrimination against Muslims, that is a given. Here we are uncovering yet another facet.

I do defend my brothers and sisters and I am so sorry but I do not consider Muslims to be losers. Once again, I strongly suggest we have a thread on the use of language.

Iqbal was born in India..you can not change the fact just as Gandhi loved India. Me, personally, loved them both. They were great men because they understood the heart of men in relationship to serving their Creator.

We need to read the likes of Fanon, Bebanbi, and Malcolm X to gain understanding and comprehend why we attack each other.
 

ilyas_eh

Used to be active here!
assalaamu alaykkum wa rahmathullah.
Chill out brothers and sisters. It is not the thread for arguing who has got his/her opinion correct. Unless we get down on street and do a research on our own, we don't know how the Ummah (as for this thread, Ummah in India in particular) stands.

As a student, I can tell you this, if you see a muslim student in the top university, you can be sure that he is among the toppers of his class. But at the same time, the ratio of muslims students entering a decent college or getting a decent placement is disturbingly low. This is the state of the Ummah in general. There is no denying of this fact. Who is to be blamed??? None but ourselves ( i blame myself first before pointing hand to others)

I am sure if you are from India and attended Khutbah regularly, you would have heard this many times from the khateebs "We are not performing well!! NEITHER in Dunya! NOR in Deen!!"

wassalaamu alaykkum wa rahmathullah
 

Isra

aka Tree2008
As to Sister Isra..why do you not start a post that would be on your comfort level. That is really the bottom line. We can not limit discussion to the comfort level of a person. That is pure emotion.

Wa alaikome salam

Yes my original post was in response to your post thats true but I wasnt speaking to you alone sister. I used your post as an example just to say to EVERYONE of us (myself included) that we as Muslims need to stick together and not pick on the small things another Muslim might say in their post. I dont feel a need to create a whole thread about this issue. However sister if you feel that a whole thread needs to be created to make my point then by all means go ahead and make one.

There is no need to be so defensive sister I am merely pointing out a fault that all of us have had at one time or another and I used your post as an example. My comment was not completely aimed at you as you can clearly read in my second post on this thread.

wa salam
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Asalaam walaikum,

Am I defensive, yes. Am I justified, yes.

The point I am making is simply that we read a response on many levels. I went to the heart of the opinion. I did not read this on a superficial level. When we read we are in the process of making decisions. We have to go our retrieval system i.e. knowledge. We make a decision based upon our understanding of a word, understanding of the culture, the understanding of our mores, and our faith.

Given the above I exercised my rights as a Muslim woman to question the opinion. There were no ayats mentioned nor any hadeeth. Maybe I am too old but an argument i.e. a point of view has more veracity and strenght if it is backed up from our faith.

There is no anger in my responses. We as Muslims do engage in what is perceived as debate. What we are doing is refining our thinking process. We have to get beyond the emotion to the intellect. Thus, Insha'Allah as we are given the blessings of delivering dahwa we are correct.
 

Isra

aka Tree2008
Asalaam walaikum,

Am I defensive, yes. Am I justified, yes.

The point I am making is simply that we read a response on many levels. I went to the heart of the opinion. I did not read this on a superficial level. When we read we are in the process of making decisions. We have to go our retrieval system i.e. knowledge. We make a decision based upon our understanding of a word, understanding of the culture, the understanding of our mores, and our faith.

Given the above I exercised my rights as a Muslim woman to question the opinion. There were no ayats mentioned nor any hadeeth. Maybe I am too old but an argument i.e. a point of view has more veracity and strenght if it is backed up from our faith.

There is no anger in my responses. We as Muslims do engage in what is perceived as debate. What we are doing is refining our thinking process. We have to get beyond the emotion to the intellect. Thus, Insha'Allah as we are given the blessings of delivering dahwa we are correct.

Wa alaikome salam

:lol: Ok sister have it your way. Its your story so tell it the way you want! I feel if I were to pursue this conversation with you it would be the shaitan making me say things! So I prefer to follow my own advice and let your opinions be your own and my opinions be my own. Peace be upon you sister. Carry on with your debate.

wa salam
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

Sister, there is no debate.

There is simply a plea that we try to understand the conditions of a people before we label them.

Often there are misconceptions. When we witness a group of young adult men gathered in a mall in the middle of the day. We know they are out of work. Sometimes these men have been disappointed so much they may have an attitude of defiance. Upon examination and conversation you understand how they see the world. And how they hold onto Allah. Thus, Insha'Allah we will have the blessings of doing good deeds.

That is all I wrote.
 
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