Please help!

[Ali168]

Salam, i have been having some real problems recently with waswasa regarding certain verses of the Qur'an, i'v joined this forum in the hope someone can help rectify my doubts and confusion. So, it here it goes.

(And it is He Who has let free the two seas (kinds of water): this is palatable and sweet, and that is salt and bitter; and He has set a barrier and a complete partition between them). Verse 53 (Al-Furqan)

There is also a similar verse in Surah Rahman i believe. Anyway, i heard that salt water and fresh water will eventually mix and there is no barrier between them. ONLY UNDER VERY LITTLE CIRCUMSTANCES WILL YOU HAVE LITTLE MIXING BETWEEN THEM, BUT LITTLE MIXING AND ONE WILL FLOAT ON THE TOP OF THE OTHER FOR A LITTLE TIME THEN THEY WILL MIX.

Sorry for the caps, that was an accident. Anyways how is this explained? A lot of these atheists are saying the same thing, so you may have heard this one before. But how is this refuted. Jzk in advance and i look forward to your replies.

 

[Hard Rock Moslem]

Wa'alaikumu salam. Brother, I'm really sorry. At the moment I don't have the answer. Let me someone and revert.

 

[Ali168]

Wa'alaikumu salam. Brother, I'm really sorry. At the moment I don't have the answer. Let me someone and revert.

Jzk brother

 

[muhammad sabri]

:salam2:

My Dear brother i think that inch'Allah the link below will clear all your doubts and the waswasa shall be gone...The barrier described in the Quran is most probably the Halocline described in a NON-MUSLIM documentary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ5fLCwyDig


The video is short but very clear

I hope it'll help and may Allah(subhanawa taAla) forgive you, me and all the believers male and female for verily He is al Tawwab al Wadud al Rauf..

-And Allah knows best



wajazakallahu khayran

 

[Peony Weed]

:salam2:

I'm not a person of science or religious, but I'll say my opinion on this. I guess one of this phenomenon is in Strait of Gibraltar

Is your question is why the Quran verses said that the two water won't mix and scientifically it's proven that the water will eventually mix? If that's the question, then my own understanding would be below:

1. The verse was revealed in the time of our Prophet Muhammad SAW. Thousands of years ago, science is probably unheard of. So this verse is to explain the miracle of Allah creations. Why Quran have not explained in detail about the phenomenon? I don't have that answer, only Allah knows.

2. Perhaps the simple explanation of the phenomenon is suitable for the people of those time. Their knowledge of science is probably limited (i don't believe they have a science lab back then), should Allah had revealed in Quran the explanation in details of which they could not understand, is there a possibility they will accuse our Prophet Muhammad SAW as a sorcerer? I say so, because he is illiterate someone who do not know how to read and write, how could he had come out with such explanation. People would probably questioned too much that he's telling lies and makes them lost in their own queries...there are several verses that explains when Allah had bring to people before a prophet and show them miracle, they still refuse to repent and refuses to worship nothing but Allah. I'm no expert but I believe it's mentioned in Surah like Al-Baqarah and Yaasin

3. To me, the verse is a good evidence of Allah's miracle. Now that we have science study to support it, yes it's true eventually as the water looses it's density it will eventually mix, and have not Allah asked us to observed and to think? However, it's even beyond understanding of how such phenomenon could have been clearly explain in Quran way before time of science made known widely? Looking at the geography of where Prophet Muhammad had lived, had to admit that you don't get to see such phenomenon in a desert right? How could our the illiterate (one who cannot read nor write) Prophet Muhammad SAW comes out with such words have it not come from Allah. Subhanallah, only Allah knows what's good for us.

If you really have to make comparison, look for any illiterate person (a person who don't know how to write and read, never go to school or watch tv or even youtube) and asked them about what would happen if high density of salt water mixes with bitter water, what would their answer be...

That's all for now...if it makes sense that is, but to me there's no need to feel waswas at all.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam alaikum,

Let's be careful about what we are writing. Islam and the Quran are not limited to time and space. That is for us. The knowledge in the Quran is from Allah, thus it is absolute knowledge. End of subject.

Let us not fool ourselves and fall into the trap of this was possible in the time of the Revelation of the Quran and not now. Were I that fortunate to have been born at that time. Think about that for one minute.

What needs to be examined is what are the factors that prevent us from accepting the Truth. Any whisperings from the shytan come from our hearts. So the root of the problem lies in what nonsense have we been taught that place a veil in front of us.

Someone wrote a great thread on cloud physics a couple of days a go. Read that and come back to this thread.

 

[Peony Weed]

Assalaam alaikum,

Let's be careful about what we are writing. Islam and the Quran are not limited to time and space. That is for us. The knowledge in the Quran is from Allah, thus it is absolute knowledge. End of subject.

Let us not fool ourselves and fall into the trap of this was possible in the time of the Revelation of the Quran and not now. Were I that fortunate to have been born at that time. Think about that for one minute.

What needs to be examined is what are the factors that prevent us from accepting the Truth. Any whisperings from the shytan come from our hearts. So the root of the problem lies in what nonsense have we been taught that place a veil in front of us.

Someone wrote a great thread on cloud physics a couple of days a go. Read that and come back to this thread.

:salam2:

Point noted. Astaghfirrullah, perhaps it's my mistake to use logic of time to explain, as I said I'm no expert and my past of having logic explanation all the time may have influence it.

Islam is true then and now. Thanks for the advise sis!

 

[Hajjerr]

Salam aleikum

Qur'an 25:53 reads: "It is He Who has let free the two bodies of flowing water: One palatable and sweet, and the other salt and bitter; yet has He made a barrier between them, a partition that is forbidden to be passed."

Qur'an 55:19-20 reads: "He has let free the two bodies of flowing water, meeting together: Between them is a Barrier which they do not transgress:"

However, any reasonable person knows that if you take a glass of salt water and a glass of fresh water, pour them in a single container, they will mix. So where did people get the idea that salt and fresh water will not mix? Actually, they get it from the Qur'an itself, amazingly enough. But, does the Qur'an actually say that salt water and fresh water will not mix?
The word translated barrier in the Qur'an is, Barzakh. According Mostmerciful.com, Dr. Abdullah Nadwi in his 'Vocabulary Of The Holy Qur'an' defines Barzakh as; "Litt : a thing that (n.) intervenes between any two things". Therefore, Barzakh is commonly translated as barrier: Something that prevents one thing from infringing upon another.
Prof. Ibrahim Khalil, states: "Modern Science has discovered that in the places where two different seas meet up, there is a barrier between them. This barrier divides the two seas so that each sea has its own temperature, salinity, and density. For example, Mediterranean Sea water is warm, saline and less dense, compared to Atlantic Ocean water. When Mediterranean Sea water enters the Atlantic, it moves several hundred kilometers into the Atlantic at a depth of about one kilometer with its own warm, saline and less dense characteristics, because of the barrier that distinguishes between them. Although there are large waves, strong currents, and tides in these seas, they do not mix or transgress this barrier."

The author fails to mention, however, that the water does eventually comingle; besides, it is cleadr that the Qur'an is talking about fresh and salt water-not salty and less salty seas.

The barzakh occurs also in the evaporation process. According to the USGS: The rain that falls on the land contains some dissolved carbon dioxide from the surrounding air. This causes the rainwater to be slightly acidic due to carbonic acid. The rain physically erodes the rock and the acids chemically break down the rocks and carries salts and minerals along in a dissolved state as ions. The ions in the runoff are carried to the streams and rivers and then to the ocean. Many of the dissolved ions are used by organisms in the ocean and are removed from the water. Others are not used up and are left for long periods of time where their concentrations increase over time.

So when the sun evaporates sea water, the salt is left behind. Fresh water is transported by clouds back over land and decends as rain-replenishing our fresh water rivers and streams and then the whole process begins again.

Had Allah (swt) not put this Barzakh in place, our rivers and streams would now be just as saline as the oceans.

The Qur'an: Yusuf Ali Translation.
http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/whyoceansalty.html

 

[PeacefulHumanity]

:salam2:

The Quran, as the speech of Allah (SWT), is timeless and applicable universally. It can't be limited to a time frame to understand the Truth.

 

[strive-may-i]

Salam, i have been having some real problems recently with waswasa regarding certain verses of the Qur'an, i'v joined this forum in the hope someone can help rectify my doubts and confusion. So, it here it goes.

(And it is He Who has let free the two seas (kinds of water): this is palatable and sweet, and that is salt and bitter; and He has set a barrier and a complete partition between them). Verse 53 (Al-Furqan)

There is also a similar verse in Surah Rahman i believe. Anyway, i heard that salt water and fresh water will eventually mix and there is no barrier between them. ONLY UNDER VERY LITTLE CIRCUMSTANCES WILL YOU HAVE LITTLE MIXING BETWEEN THEM, BUT LITTLE MIXING AND ONE WILL FLOAT ON THE TOP OF THE OTHER FOR A LITTLE TIME THEN THEY WILL MIX.

Sorry for the caps, that was an accident. Anyways how is this explained? A lot of these atheists are saying the same thing, so you may have heard this one before. But how is this refuted. Jzk in advance and i look forward to your replies.

Walaikum Ssalaam warahmathullaahi wabarakaatuh,

A barrier between them , Yes. Where ? Whats the extent of barrier? Eventually mix where? And you have to really expand the thinking and immerse yourself in this. There were lot of students who would say stuff about Newtons law, but you still listen to the teacher, right?

 

[Ali168]

Salam, i wholeheartedly accept Islam, but i just want clarity on this issue for my own well being. If no one can help me i would appreciate it if someone can give me the contact details of a scholar. Jzk

 

[hur575]

Salam brother, I am not sure what is the confusion about? If you Google scientific Quran about water partition, you will find a lot of scientific proof on the subject. I am not sure if I am allowed to put links, so Google the term in sha Allah.
I also agree with peaceful humanity, Qur’an is is timeless and applicable universally. It can't be limited to a time frame to understand the Truth. I am sure what we have found until today, is nothing to what the Qur’an has to offer.
I just don’t like the idea of using the Qur’an as science book, and trying to find the answers to what we know so far. Look at the whole picture, the one proven miracle of the Qur’an is the preservation of it so far, like Allah promised us. If someone dispoute the written form of it, we have the oral form of it.We are the only religion who memorise the entire book since it was revealed.
We have to look it like this, what is the message?? The ones of Allah, and the message has not changed, it is the same book since 1400.
After all these compelling evidence of the purity of the message, the scientific facts is just the icing on the cake.

 

[Itqan Ullah]

Salam, i wholeheartedly accept Islam, but i just want clarity on this issue for my own well being. If no one can help me i would appreciate it if someone can give me the contact details of a scholar. Jzk

Waliekumasslam,
Its perfectly fine to ask and get your doubts cleared inshallah. If you want to contact a scholar:
http://www.assimalhakeem.net (see contact section)

I have presentation responding to your query, I'll try to PM it to you inshallah.

 

[strive-may-i]

Salam brother, I am not sure what is the confusion about? If you Google scientific Quran about water partition, you will find a lot of scientific proof on the subject. I am not sure if I am allowed to put links, so Google the term in sha Allah.
I also agree with peaceful humanity, Qur’an is is timeless and applicable universally. It can't be limited to a time frame to understand the Truth. I am sure what we have found until today, is nothing to what the Qur’an has to offer.
I just don’t like the idea of using the Qur’an as science book, and trying to find the answers to what we know so far. Look at the whole picture, the one proven miracle of the Qur’an is the preservation of it so far, like Allah promised us. If someone dispoute the written form of it, we have the oral form of it.We are the only religion who memorise the entire book since it was revealed.
We have to look it like this, what is the message?? The ones of Allah, and the message has not changed, it is the same book since 1400.
After all these compelling evidence of the purity of the message, the scientific facts is just the icing on the cake.

Assalaamu Alaikum,
There is another important part. The quran need not cover that humans will discover. Its for humans to discover. Quran definitely covers that humans will never uncover for our own wellbeing, and hence the guidance through Messengers/Prophets.