Questions on Shariah Law

[lightofnur]

Assalammualaikum all.

This is a thread that I have kept delaying to make. First of all, I'm disappointed in my iman when it comes to Shariah Law. And when I bring up Shariah Law, I know it has a vast meaning to it; I'm emphasizing on the hudud law and criminal punishment part. Lately, though, I have had an iman boost and am looking at Islam in a more refreshing, un-close-minded way, and I'm really happy with everything. Don't get me wrong, I've been born Muslim, practice Islam well, Alhamdulillah, and love Allah and believe in Islam. I do, however, have nagging doubts, and I thought it best to clear it with knowledge, especially during this iman peak of mine. Surah An-Nas speaks of doubts, too.

I am a peace-loving person by nature. I simply hate, hate, HATE violence. I can't stand it. I can't watch gory things. I know Islam is peaceful. But somehow my mind can understand Shariah Law as much as peaceful Islam in general. And when I've been in discussions with others, they often point out that I've been too "brainwashed" to accept any other truth. I don't let them go to my head so much, but at the end of the day, this question lingers: "Am I so brainwashed that I can't understand that Shariah Law, is really not the right thing (at least according to them?" I infer to myself that Alhamdulillah, Allah Loves me and is giving me guidance. But then again, isn't that what other people of different faiths say when we offer them the message of Islam? Please note that I'm not saying Shariah Law isn't the right thing, I'm just confused at what my feelings are.

I'll get down to the questions. Please understand however, that these questions are of curious nature, and not to offend people or try to refute Islam. I'm simply keeping an open mind when asking so I can answer others and so I can be contented; I'm asking it the way others have asked so blatantly, so it's more relatable. Forgive me Allah, if I have transgressed.

1)Why does Shariah Law have to be torture before death?/Painful death?/Death in a very painful way?

2)Why does Islam practice an 'eye-for-an-eye' in these matters? Isn't that a vengeful way out? Forgiveness in Islam was also heavily emphasized. I would think that a hurt family member would have wanted the killer killed.

3)I've heard the church burnings of before were done to save the burning person from the even more dangerous "fires of Hell." And then they say Islam wants the accused to be saved from an even greater danger (Hell), which is why the rapist for example, has to be set to death.

4)Why are apostates killed? Freedom of religion is emphasized in Islam, so why is there an apostasy rule? There are answers in my head, but I still can't comprehend it.

5)Islam cannot change its rules. I accept Shariah Law, I guess, but it's easier said than done. If I saw it with my own eyes, being carried out, I'm very scared of what will happen to my faith. Any way of understanding the wisdom behind Shariah Law?

6)What does "stoning" mean?

7)Why doesn't Islam offer rehabilitation for homosexuals? I'm not making my own rules, btw. Why is it stoning instead? What is the validity of this:

"Maududi vol. 2, p. 52, note 68):

. . . Ibn Abbas ruled that they be thrown headlong from the highest summit."

Please understand that it is not my intention to mislead or offend, nau'uzubillah. I myself have no proper knowledge on this matter. I believe in Islam; it has far too clear a message to ignore. I am trying to learn, since a lot of websites do not explain this matter satisfactorily to me. They don't give proper reasons, therefore this doubt lingers on. May Allah Forgive me if I've said anything wrong.

 

[ipanda]

wonderful questions my brother. I often ask and think about the questions myself. Hope someone with wisdom will enlighten both of us on this important questions.

 

[JenGiove]

:salam2: Sister,

I looked up the fatwah for Apostasy for you and this is what I found. I have my own thoughts about why this makes sense, but since I have no proof and I am a non-muslim, I'll keep them to myself for the time being.

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/20327/apostate

Why is the apostate to be executed in Islam?​

As a non Muslim, I find myself Intrigued and attracted to your faith. However, I find it difficult to comprehend how a man can be sentenced to death for speaking( Salman Rushdie). I would have thought that we as humans do not have that right to make those decisions, only god can?

Praise be to Allaah.

We thank you for your confidence in us and for sending this question to us, and we appreciate your being intrigued by our beliefs and your eagerness to find out the answer. We welcome you as a visitor and reader and learner.


What stood out from your letter is that you are impressed with the religion of Islam. This is a good sign for us and for you. We are happy for our religion to reach people like you who are seeking for the truth. Our Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told us that this religion would reach all places on this earth. It was narrated that Tameem al-Daari said: “I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: ‘This matter (i.e., Islam) will certainly reach everywhere that night and day reach, and Allaah will not leave any house or tent [i.e., all dwellings, in towns and in the desert], but Allaah will cause this religion to enter it, and some people will be honoured because of it [by converting] and others will be humiliated because of it [for refusing to embrace it], and they will be ruled by the Muslims, an honour which Allaah will bestow on Islam and a humiliation which He will inflict on kufr (disbelief).”


(Narrated by Ahmad, 16344; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in al-Silsilah al-Saheehah, 3).

In your case, your admiration for Islam will motivate you to find out what this pure monotheistic religion teaches, and how it is in accordance with sound human nature and common sense. We advise you to avoid completely and preconceptions that may influence you and take your time in reading about the teachings of the Islamic religion. Perhaps you could read material on this site about Islam, such as questions no. 219, 21613, 20756, 10590.​

With regard to your question, “However, I find it difficult to comprehend how a man can be sentenced to death for speaking. I would have thought that we as humans do not have that right to make those decisions, only god can” – what you say is correct, because no-one has the right to condemn another person to death without evidence from the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).​

The ruling of execution because of a word that somebody utters is what the Muslim scholars call al-riddah (apostasy). What is apostasy and what constitutes apostasy? What is the ruling on the apostate (al-murtadd)?


1 – Riddah (apostasy) refers to when a Muslim becomes a disbeliever by saying a clear statement to that effect, or by uttering words which imply that (i.e., which imply kufr or disbelief), or he does something that implies that (i.e., an action which implies kufr or disbelief).


2 – What constitutes apostasy


The matters which constitute apostasy are divided into four categories:
(a) Apostasy in beliefs, such as associating others with Allaah, denying Him, or denying an attribute which is proven to be one of His attributes, or by affirming that Allaah has a son. Whoever believes that is an apostate and a disbeliever.
(b) Apostasy in words, such as insulting Allaah or the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).
(c) Apostasy in actions, such as throwing the Qur’an into a filthy place, because doing that shows disrespect towards the words of Allaah, so it is a sign that one does not believe. Other such actions include prostrating to an idol or to the sun or moon.
(d) Apostasy by omission, such as not doing any of the rituals of Islam, or turning away from following it altogether.


3 – What is the ruling on the apostate?


If a Muslim apostatizes and meets the conditions of apostasy – i.e., he is of sound mind, an adult and does that of his own free will – then his blood may be shed with impunity. He is to be executed by the Muslim ruler or by his deputy – such as the qaadi or judge, and he is not to not be washed (after death, in preparation for burial), the funeral prayer is not to be offered for him and he is not to be buried with the Muslims.


The evidence that the apostate is to be executed is the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “Whoever changes his religion, execute him.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2794). What is meant by religion here is Islam (i.e., whoever changes from Islam to another religion).


The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “It is not permissible to shed the blood of a Muslim who bears witness that there is no god except Allaah and that I am His Messenger, except in one of three cases: a soul for a soul (i.e., in the case of murder); a married man who commits adultery; and one who leaves his religion and splits form the jamaa’ah (main group of Muslims).” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6878; Muslim, 1676)


See al-Mawsoo’ah al-Fiqhiyyah, 22/180.

Thus it will be clear to you that execution of the apostate is something that is commanded by Allaah, when he commanded us to obey the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), as He says (interpretation of the meaning):​

“O you who believe! Obey Allaah and obey the Messenger (Muhammad), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority”


[al-Nisa’ 4:59]

And the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) has commanded us to execute the apostate as in the hadeeth quoted above: “Whoever changes his religion, execute him.”​

It may need some time for you to be convinced about this matter, and for you to think about it. Perhaps you think that if a person follows the truth and enters into it and embraces the one true religion which Allaah has enjoined, then we allow him to leave it quite easily whenever he wants and to utter the words of kufr (disbelief) that put him outside of Islam, so he can reject Allaah, His Messenger, His Books and His religion, and there is no punishment as deterrent, how will that affect him and others who enter the religion?


Do you not see that this would make the one true religion, that everyone should follow, like a shop or store which a person can enter when he wants and leave when he wants, and it may encourage others to forsake the truth.


Moreover, this is not someone who has never known the truth and practiced it and worshipped in accordance with it; rather this is a person who has known the truth, and practiced the religion and done the rituals of worship, so the punishment is no greater than he deserves. Moreover, such strong rulings as this are only applied to such a person whose life is no longer considered to be useful, because he knew the truth and followed the religion, then he left it and forsook it. What soul can be more evil than the soul of such a person?


In conclusion, the answer is that Allaah is the One Who revealed this religion and enjoined it. He is the One Who ruled that the one who enters it and then leaves it is to be executed. This ruling does not come from the Muslims’ ideas or suggestions. As this is the case, then we must follow the ruling of Allaah so long as we are content to accept Him as our Lord and God.


May Allaah help us and you to do that which He loves and which pleases Him. We thank you once again.


Peace be upon those who follow true guidance.


Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

 

[tariq353]

:salam2:

Plz visit this thread
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76414


wa salam

 

[ahmed_indian]

may Allah help and reward you for understanding His Rules sister. ameen

1. in Islam, torture is prohibited.

2. if muslims abuse non-muslims, then we cant blame Islam.

3. Shariah Law's strictness is necessary to keep peace and security in the society.

4. freedom in religion means he/she can believe or not. s/he can practice Islam in private life or not. but in public life....anything done against norms of Islam have to be dealt with. otherwise it will tempt others and open door to evil. a person may drink in private but if found he has to be punished so that others dont do the same. same goes for homosexuals.

but here we are talking about sinful people and not innocents. killing a murderer is not haraam.....killing a rapist is not haraam....(of course, these executions are done by the govt.)

people who commit sex outside marriage are told to be stoned....as they are doing injustice and cheating their spouses. if no tight punishment will be kept, many many members of the society will do it. and the result? unwanted pregnancies, abortions, family breakdown, heartbreaks due to being cheated, hatred/murder towards the spouse due to being cheated behind the back!

how many have been killed in Islamic history due to stoning? very few. but this fear of punishment has protected the society greatly.

 

[ipanda]

may Allah help and reward you for understanding His Rules sister. ameen

1. in Islam, torture is prohibited.

2. if muslims abuse non-muslims, then we cant blame Islam.

3. Shariah Law's strictness is necessary to keep peace and security in the society.

4. freedom in religion means he/she can believe or not. s/he can practice Islam in private life or not. but in public life....anything done against norms of Islam have to be dealt with. otherwise it will tempt others and open door to evil. a person may drink in private but if found he has to be punished so that others dont do the same. same goes for homosexuals.

but here we are talking about sinful people and not innocents. killing a murderer is not haraam.....killing a rapist is not haraam....(of course, these executions are done by the govt.)

people who commit sex outside marriage are told to be stoned....as they are doing injustice and cheating their spouses. if no tight punishment will be kept, many many members of the society will do it. and the result? unwanted pregnancies, abortions, family breakdown, heartbreaks due to being cheated, hatred/murder towards the spouse due to being cheated behind the back!

how many have been killed in Islamic history due to stoning? very few. but this fear of punishment has protected the society greatly.

1. Could you tell me more about number 2 ( 2. if muslims abuse non-muslims, then we cant blame Islam.)

2. Can we blame non-muslims who believe and think Islam is "intolerant?" and "Aggressive" in the way it handles homosexuals etc etc. Some years back in Iraq, homosexuals were tortured to death. A shiek/imam did say this is not the way to do justice but to help them thru prayer and other means. I liked his idea but now I get the feeling he was standing against Sharia law?

3. Many say Sharia law is "brutal" and "inhumane". From what you said and from what happens on the ground, it appears as though society needs to learn the hard way not to do evil things. If this is the case, what would you say to others who believe Islam is indeed aggressive?

 

[ahmed_indian]

1. Could you tell me more about number 2 ( 2. if muslims abuse non-muslims, then we cant blame Islam.)

2. Can we blame non-muslims who believe and think Islam is "intolerant?" and "Aggressive" in the way it handles homosexuals etc etc. Some years back in Iraq, homosexuals were tortured to death. A shiek/imam did say this is not the way to do justice but to help them thru prayer and other means. I liked his idea but now I get the feeling he was standing against Sharia law?

3. Many say Sharia law is "brutal" and "inhumane". From what you said and from what happens on the ground, it appears as though society needs to learn the hard way not to do evil things. If this is the case, what would you say to others who believe Islam is indeed aggressive?

:salam2:

1. i meant that if muslims kill non-muslims for no reason, burn their places of worship....then dont blame Islam for that.

2. yes, as a part of muslim ummah, we pray and advice the muslims who are doing wrong (ie homosexuals in this case). but if the case of this act comes to the govt. they have to act and punish them.

3. not all understand the message through peace. some ppl are stubborn, they need a strict way. its just like father/teacher being strict, having traffic signals, etc.

 

[justoneofmillion]

:salam2:Sister,I do not think it was a good idea to post your question on this website(on apostasy at least).It generally does not allow discussions of this kind,as they very quickly steer up debate and animosities,there is nothing you can do about it, and this is the state of our people today.Today some of our people are very eager to find faults in others,some have even made of this some sort of profession.They do rebuttals to every Sheikh and every Muslim,according to them everybody is misguided and leads to misguidance but themselves, as they engage in backbiting. Wallahi none is left out, they shoot and get shot at from all sides ,everything that Moves is a targeted.But this should not discourage you if you keep Allah swt in your heart you should have no fear to ask questions, let them talk,wish them well.

All I can say,in few words and with caution, is that the Quraan is clear on the right to believe or not,through many many verses,but if you say this in relation to this particular issue, people will label you as a denier of the Sunnah,(ignorant or put you in their minds inside some group that you may never have heard of.. ),and do not make an effort to take into account that the context of 7 century tribal Arabia ,where Muslims were dealing with people that used to discourage,spy on them and then return to the polytheist to plot against them ,had to be dealt with under certain measures,and that it is different from regarding Islam as some sort of ruthless faith , incapable of other methods to convince people other than by forcing them to adopt a hypocritical attitude at the risk of their lives, even tough the heart doesn't fellow.(You may then start asking yourself ,what the countless verses on religious freedom and freewill are there for,if we hold such positions,at the end of the day!).

Having said this ,know that the majority of Scholars think that Apostasy is punishable by death.There are however some scholar even from early on, who contextualize and make the difference between what is known as a political or military betrayal(High treason) and a simple spiritual tendency without the intent of proselytism or disrespect to the Ummah and argue that the judgment should be left to Allah swt .I have a link with detailed explanation, but I will not post it in here because I do not know if it is allowed and I have to respect the guidelines of this particular space,just do some research on the internet for further explanations .

The problem that arises in my mind for this(And this is really a genuine question) ,is that knowing that it is Allah swt that guides(to return to the eternal dichotomy between predestination and freewill) ,how on earth can one come to the conclusion that a person should be killed for not believing or choosing not to believe anymore without spreading Fitna and influencing other Muslims?.Are we not trying to guess the Ghayb, when we close the eventuality that this person might one day be guided,how do we know for sure,to go on for such a categorical measure?and since every child is born a Muslim...I would have numerous questions of this kind.I will however will stop here,as I do not want to steer up debate.The problem sister is not with Islam ,it is with Muslims, please do bear that in mind and keep the faith knowing that Allah swt is never unjust or forgetful.

All the other laws regarding adultery,robbery,murder,rape are very clear and have a certain wisdom as preventive measures as well to safeguard a healthy society,as to the social cohesion ,safety of the individual,protection of property,promotion of the family and the interest of children ..etc they are not debatable at all dear sister,just Google some statistics of crimes related to adultery ,rape or robbery in the western hemisphere,it sadly is very dramatic.
It is not a model to follow,certainly not in these kind of issues.Science, technology and rule of law would be better deals in the current state of matters..but that's another question.

Wallahu Allam,Wa Alaa Wa Ahkam

.

 

[Perseveranze]

For number 4, i'd suggest you read this - http://www.answering-christianity.com/apostates.htm

For number 2, this requires deeper research and understanding. Islam is peace, but at the same time it is not something people can just "take advantage of", it brings about absolute justice. Yes forgiveness is a very higlighted part of the faith, but if everyone just "forgave everything" the cycle will just continue, no one will learn.

Some of what you said is debated by people of knowledge, whilst others are quite clear and just require you to try and understand where or why it's like that.

I'll use one example.

In Saudi Arabia, if you steal your hands are cut off. Now, when we compare statistics of crime/robbery of the whole world, you'll find Saudi Arabia has the lowest crime rate (though i believe it is currently rising, many poeple blame this due to corruptiong/middle east uprises), but it's still the lowest in the world. There's a reason for this low crime rate, please think about why that is. And lets not forget to mention Umar(ra), when his Muslim people were going through a terrible time of poverty/desease, he took the Hand cutting punishment off (temporarily), this was perfectly Islamic. People were poor, desperate, Islam understands this, it wants to help these people - there's so much research/understanding in reason.

ps. Never heard of number 3, care to elaborate?

Watch this - [yt]vg8VTHpyKqg[/yt]

 

[lightofnur]

Wa'alaikumussalam all.

wonderful questions my brother. I often ask and think about the questions myself. Hope someone with wisdom will enlighten both of us on this important questions.

Thank you brother. However I'm a sister. Insha'Allah, we'll both find an answer.

:salam2: Sister,

I looked up the fatwah for Apostasy for you and this is what I found. I have my own thoughts about why this makes sense, but since I have no proof and I am a non-muslim, I'll keep them to myself for the time being.

Thanks very much for the fatwa sister. I, too, in my mind, have reasons about this, but it is best to keep it in my mind. I put forth those questions because I would like to see the opinions and reasons for such rules. I'm glad a non-Muslim is so respectful of Islam. May Allah Bless you as you continue to learn.

:salam2:

Plz visit this thread
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76414


wa salam

I've seen this thread but I'll check it out for sure.

may Allah help and reward you for understanding His Rules sister. ameen

1. in Islam, torture is prohibited.

2. if muslims abuse non-muslims, then we cant blame Islam.

3. Shariah Law's strictness is necessary to keep peace and security in the society.

4. freedom in religion means he/she can believe or not. s/he can practice Islam in private life or not. but in public life....anything done against norms of Islam have to be dealt with. otherwise it will tempt others and open door to evil. a person may drink in private but if found he has to be punished so that others dont do the same. same goes for homosexuals.

but here we are talking about sinful people and not innocents. killing a murderer is not haraam.....killing a rapist is not haraam....(of course, these executions are done by the govt.)

people who commit sex outside marriage are told to be stoned....as they are doing injustice and cheating their spouses. if no tight punishment will be kept, many many members of the society will do it. and the result? unwanted pregnancies, abortions, family breakdown, heartbreaks due to being cheated, hatred/murder towards the spouse due to being cheated behind the back!

how many have been killed in Islamic history due to stoning? very few. but this fear of punishment has protected the society greatly.

Thank you for your words brother. In answer to your replies ...

1)That's why I've got to understand the definition of "stoning". Because some people do find that stoning is sort of like torture before death. And with regards to "torture", I meant a very painful death/very painful way of dying. People are cynical of Allah's Compassion because of these rules; nau'zubillah.

2)No, no, I'm not talking about Muslims against non-Muslims. I meant, generally, why is an eye for an eye practiced? Like I kill you, I deserved to be killed back. Most people would resort to this rather than forgiveness, wouldn't they?

3)Dear brother, I'm sorry if I sound argumentative, but your answer doesn't really answer my question about the similarity in reasons for being put to death (sort of) between Christianity and Islam.

2. Can we blame non-muslims who believe and think Islam is "intolerant?" and "Aggressive" in the way it handles homosexuals etc etc. Some years back in Iraq, homosexuals were tortured to death. A shiek/imam did say this is not the way to do justice but to help them thru prayer and other means. I liked his idea but now I get the feeling he was standing against Sharia law?

3. Many say Sharia law is "brutal" and "inhumane". From what you said and from what happens on the ground, it appears as though society needs to learn the hard way not to do evil things. If this is the case, what would you say to others who believe Islam is indeed aggressive?

These are my questions as well. It's been a constant internal battle for me. I need to set these questions straight. I do believe in ahmed_indian's answer to your 3rd question. It's "aggressive" not in the brash, headlong, stupid way, but aggressive in the action carried out, the deterrent, prevention, and execution of the action. In other words, it's just very strict because it involves society and this is no light matter, I guess. Society ills spread like wildfire. One thing I've noticed; when we are too gentle, too accepting, the problem doesn't disappear, no matter how much we think that it is the best way. It may work, but not as effectively as Sharia Law. Remember, this is coming from an utterly violence-hating person.

:salam2:Sister,I do not think it was a good idea to post your question on this website(on apostasy at least).It generally does not allow discussions of this kind,as they very quickly steer up debate and animosities,there is nothing you can do about it, and this is the state of our people today.Today some of our people are very eager to find faults in others,some have even made of this some sort of profession.They do rebuttals to every Sheikh and every Muslim,according to them everybody is misguided and leads to misguidance but themselves, as they engage in backbiting. Wallahi none is left out, they shoot and get shot at from all sides ,everything that Moves is a targeted.But this should not discourage you if you keep Allah swt in your heart you should have no fear to ask questions, let them talk,wish them well.

All I can say,in few words and with caution, is that the Quraan is clear on the right to believe or not,through many many verses,but if you say this in relation to this particular issue, people will label you as a denier of the Sunnah,(ignorant or put you in their minds inside some group that you may never have heard of.. ),and do not make an effort to take into account that the context of 7 century tribal Arabia ,where Muslims were dealing with people that used to discourage,spy on them and then return to the polytheist to plot against them ,had to be dealt with under certain measures,and that it is different from regarding Islam as some sort of ruthless faith , incapable of other methods to convince people other than by forcing them to adopt a hypocritical attitude at the risk of their lives, even tough the heart doesn't fellow.(You may then start asking yourself ,what the countless verses on religious freedom and freewill are there for,if we hold such positions,at the end of the day!).

Having said this ,know that the majority of Scholars think that Apostasy is punishable by death.There are however some scholar even from early on, who contextualize and make the difference between what is known as a political or military betrayal(High treason) and a simple spiritual tendency without the intent of proselytism or disrespect to the Ummah and argue that the judgment should be left to Allah swt .I have a link with detailed explanation, but I will not post it in here because I do not know if it is allowed and I have to respect the guidelines of this particular space,just do some research on the internet for further explanations .

The problem that arises in my mind for this(And this is really a genuine question) ,is that knowing that it is Allah swt that guides(to return to the eternal dichotomy between predestination and freewill) ,how on earth can one come to the conclusion that a person should be killed for not believing or choosing not to believe anymore without spreading Fitna and influencing other Muslims?.Are we not trying to guess the Ghayb, when we close the eventuality that this person might one day be guided,how do we know for sure,to go on for such a categorical measure?and since every child is born a Muslim...I would have numerous questions of this kind.I will however will stop here,as I do not want to steer up debate.The problem sister is not with Islam ,it is with Muslims, please do bear that in mind and keep the faith knowing that Allah swt is never unjust or forgetful.

All the other laws regarding adultery,robbery,murder,rape are very clear and have a certain wisdom as preventive measures as well to safeguard a healthy society,as to the social cohesion ,safety of the individual,protection of property,promotion of the family and the interest of children ..etc they are not debatable at all dear sister,just Google some statistics of crimes related to adultery ,rape or robbery in the western hemisphere,it sadly is very dramatic.
It is not a model to follow,certainly not in these kind of issues.Science, technology and rule of law would be better deals in the current state of matters..but that's another question.

Wallahu Allam,Wa Alaa Wa Ahkam

.

Sister, your post makes me ponder a lot. However I have heard a response to your question. He/she claimed that whenever the Prophet made a mistake, Allah would send down a verse?/guidance? (not really sure by what he/she meant) and the Prophet would correct himself. But it seems that the Prophet did not get corrected for this, which meant, it's acceptable in Islam? - he/she says. He/she claims that the Prophet did not slip up when he said this rule was allowed. I don't understand the contrary answers ...

But thanks very much for your long answer! I understand your caution. My intention was never to mislead or to cause a rift, and I understand that this subject is controversial. Thanks for that. However I merely want to know the opinions and reasons behind most of the questions, then, if the apostasy issue is difficult to answer about.

For number 4, i'd suggest you read this - http://www.answering-christianity.com/apostates.htm

For number 2, this requires deeper research and understanding. Islam is peace, but at the same time it is not something people can just "take advantage of", it brings about absolute justice. Yes forgiveness is a very higlighted part of the faith, but if everyone just "forgave everything" the cycle will just continue, no one will learn.

Some of what you said is debated by people of knowledge, whilst others are quite clear and just require you to try and understand where or why it's like that.

I'll use one example.

In Saudi Arabia, if you steal your hands are cut off. Now, when we compare statistics of crime/robbery of the whole world, you'll find Saudi Arabia has the lowest crime rate (though i believe it is currently rising, many poeple blame this due to corruptiong/middle east uprises), but it's still the lowest in the world. There's a reason for this low crime rate, please think about why that is. And lets not forget to mention Umar(ra), when his Muslim people were going through a terrible time of poverty/desease, he took the Hand cutting punishment off (temporarily), this was perfectly Islamic. People were poor, desperate, Islam understands this, it wants to help these people - there's so much research/understanding in reason.

ps. Never heard of number 3, care to elaborate?

Watch this - [yt]vg8VTHpyKqg[/yt]

Thanks very much for this detailed answer. I've always sort of understood the wisdom behind the hudud law, I guess, but I've never understood the execution law and the wisdom behind that. See, hudud is like a deterrent, but for execution there is no way out.

3)I've heard the church burnings of before were done to save the burning person from the even more dangerous "fires of Hell." And then they say Islam wants the accused to be saved from an even greater danger (Hell), which is why the rapist for example, has to be set to death.

I meant that when someone was found guilty of "witchcraft" during those ages, they were burnt as a "mercy, since the fires of Hell are even greater". I've heard that Shariah Law was not only a deterrent, but a mercy from Allah, since the fires of Hell are worse than this punishment.

 

[Perseveranze]

Thanks very much for this detailed answer. I've always sort of understood the wisdom behind the hudud law, I guess, but I've never understood the execution law and the wisdom behind that. See, hudud is like a deterrent, but for execution there is no way out.

3)I've heard the church burnings of before were done to save the burning person from the even more dangerous "fires of Hell." And then they say Islam wants the accused to be saved from an even greater danger (Hell), which is why the rapist for example, has to be set to death.

I meant that when someone was found guilty of "witchcraft" during those ages, they were burnt as a "mercy, since the fires of Hell are even greater". I've heard that Shariah Law was not only a deterrent, but a mercy from Allah, since the fires of Hell are worse than this punishment.

Still not sure about number 3, do you have any articles from Islamic sites regarding it?

Regarding "execution". Lets look at the adultery punishment, where if your caught you are given the death sentence. Harsh? Lets look at the requirements for this;

1. You need 4 witnesses. Basically 4 people to actually have seen you do the act.

2. These 4 witnesses need to be of "upright" character. Meaning they all have background checks etc. to make sure their rightious people who would not lie.

Now, I think you can see what i'm trying to get at here. The punishment is there to scare people into not committing the sin. On top of that, it is extremely difficult to get caught doing the act. - I mean if your going to commit adultery your not going to do it in the open are you? Despite that, people don't bother taking the risks and thus are diverted from committing great sin, the law has protected people from carrying out evil thoughts.

 

[Libinette]

Assalam 'aleikum,

I like your threads sister LightofNur, they make me think and ponder so thanks for that.

I just wanted to post couple of verses that sort of explain the concept of an 'eye for an eye' and the concept of forgiveness which is the better solution that you've mentionned above. There's nothing clearer or more eloquent than the words of the Creator so here it goes:

وَالَّذِينَ اسْتَجَابُوا لِرَبِّهِمْ وَأَقَامُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَأَمْرُهُمْ شُورَىٰ بَيْنَهُمْ وَمِمَّا رَزَقْنَاهُمْ يُنفِقُونَ

38. And those who answer the Call of their Lord [i.e. to believe that He is the only One Lord (Allâh), and to worship none but Him Alone], and perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and who (conduct) their affairs by mutual consultation, and who spend of what We have bestowed on them;

وَالَّذِينَ إِذَا أَصَابَهُمُ الْبَغْيُ هُمْ يَنتَصِرُونَ

39. And those who, when an oppressive wrong is done to them, they take revenge.

وَجَزَاءُ سَيِّئَةٍ سَيِّئَةٌ مِّثْلُهَا ۖ فَمَنْ عَفَا وَأَصْلَحَ فَأَجْرُهُ عَلَى اللَّهِ ۚ إِنَّهُ لَا يُحِبُّ الظَّالِمِينَ

40. The recompense for an evil is an evil like thereof, but whoever forgives and makes reconciliation, his reward is due from Allâh. Verily, He likes not the Zâlimûn (oppressors, polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.).

وَلَمَنِ انتَصَرَ بَعْدَ ظُلْمِهِ فَأُولَـٰئِكَ مَا عَلَيْهِم مِّن سَبِيلٍ

41. And indeed whosoever takes revenge after he has suffered wrong, for such there is no way (of blame) against them. إ

ِنَّمَا السَّبِيلُ عَلَى الَّذِينَ يَظْلِمُونَ النَّاسَ وَيَبْغُونَ فِي
الْأَرْضِ بِغَيْرِ الْحَقِّ ۚ أُولَـٰئِكَ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ

42. The way (of blame) is only against those who oppress men and wrongly rebel in the earth, for such there will be a painful torment.

وَلَمَن صَبَرَ وَغَفَرَ إِنَّ ذَ*!ٰلِكَ لَمِنْ عَزْمِ الْأُمُورِ

43. And verily, whosoever shows patience and forgives that would truly be from the things recommended by Allâh.

 

[sliver]

:salam2:

1. i meant that if muslims kill non-muslims for no reason, burn their places of worship....then dont blame Islam for that.

2. yes, as a part of muslim ummah, we pray and advice the muslims who are doing wrong (ie homosexuals in this case). but if the case of this act comes to the govt. they have to act and punish them.

3. not all understand the message through peace. some ppl are stubborn, they need a strict way. its just like father/teacher being strict, having traffic signals, etc.

I agree with the first two. But how can peace be maintained by force?

 

[Aapa]

Sister,

Islam is not a box. Remember Allah forgives us even if our sins reach the sky if we repent.
Eye for an eye is simply exact retribution. If someone steals a rose from me to make amends the thief needs to reimburse me with a rose. You can not ask for more. It has to be equal and just. If, however, I can forgive the robber from the bottom of my heart it is better. It may show the person a personification of mercy and make them firmer believers. I forgive out of my Love and Fear of Allah.

Allah's Law is Just.

 

[lightofnur]

Wa'alaikumussalam everyone.

Still not sure about number 3, do you have any articles from Islamic sites regarding it?

Regarding "execution". Lets look at the adultery punishment, where if your caught you are given the death sentence. Harsh? Lets look at the requirements for this;

1. You need 4 witnesses. Basically 4 people to actually have seen you do the act.

2. These 4 witnesses need to be of "upright" character. Meaning they all have background checks etc. to make sure their rightious people who would not lie.

Now, I think you can see what i'm trying to get at here. The punishment is there to scare people into not committing the sin. On top of that, it is extremely difficult to get caught doing the act. - I mean if your going to commit adultery your not going to do it in the open are you? Despite that, people don't bother taking the risks and thus are diverted from committing great sin, the law has protected people from carrying out evil thoughts.

About no.3, the witch-burnings thingy, I saw from a documentary. The Islamic aspect of the punishment being a Mercy from Allah, I've read on many websites and threads. I do recall reading it from one of the threads on TTI even. I'll dig it up. What is "stoning", can I ask?

I read that stoning is "slow, very painful torture". I admit I feel like crying whenever I think of stoning and the pain. I've seen a documentary on torture and was so nauseated. Is the lashes prescribed in Islam the sort of painful ones which makes one pass out? Like in jail? The ones in jail which are only 3 are enough to cause someone to pass out.

And what about the homosexuals' punishment as mentioned in hadith?

And I don't know the validity of this:

". . . Ibn Abbas ruled that they be thrown headlong from the highest summit." (cf. Maududi vol. 2, p. 52, note 68):

Assalam 'aleikum,

I like your threads sister LightofNur, they make me think and ponder so thanks for that.

I just wanted to post couple of verses that sort of explain the concept of an 'eye for an eye' and the concept of forgiveness which is the better solution that you've mentionned above. There's nothing clearer or more eloquent than the words of the Creator so here it goes:

وَالَّذِينَ اسْتَجَابُوا لِرَبِّهِمْ وَأَقَامُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَأَمْرُهُمْ شُورَىٰ بَيْنَهُمْ وَمِمَّا رَزَقْنَاهُمْ يُنفِقُونَ

38. And those who answer the Call of their Lord [i.e. to believe that He is the only One Lord (Allâh), and to worship none but Him Alone], and perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and who (conduct) their affairs by mutual consultation, and who spend of what We have bestowed on them;

وَالَّذِينَ إِذَا أَصَابَهُمُ الْبَغْيُ هُمْ يَنتَصِرُونَ

39. And those who, when an oppressive wrong is done to them, they take revenge.

وَجَزَاءُ سَيِّئَةٍ سَيِّئَةٌ مِّثْلُهَا ۖ فَمَنْ عَفَا وَأَصْلَحَ فَأَجْرُهُ عَلَى اللَّهِ ۚ إِنَّهُ لَا يُحِبُّ الظَّالِمِينَ

40. The recompense for an evil is an evil like thereof, but whoever forgives and makes reconciliation, his reward is due from Allâh. Verily, He likes not the Zâlimûn (oppressors, polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.).

وَلَمَنِ انتَصَرَ بَعْدَ ظُلْمِهِ فَأُولَـٰئِكَ مَا عَلَيْهِم مِّن سَبِيلٍ

41. And indeed whosoever takes revenge after he has suffered wrong, for such there is no way (of blame) against them. إ

ِنَّمَا السَّبِيلُ عَلَى الَّذِينَ يَظْلِمُونَ النَّاسَ وَيَبْغُونَ فِي
الْأَرْضِ بِغَيْرِ الْحَقِّ ۚ أُولَـٰئِكَ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ

42. The way (of blame) is only against those who oppress men and wrongly rebel in the earth, for such there will be a painful torment.

وَلَمَن صَبَرَ وَغَفَرَ إِنَّ ذَ*!ٰلِكَ لَمِنْ عَزْمِ الْأُمُورِ

43. And verily, whosoever shows patience and forgives that would truly be from the things recommended by Allâh.

Wa'alaikumussalam.
Thank you for your kind words of me. However, I hope I haven't made you ponder anything negatively because I do believe Islam's way is just. That being said, your reply was an inexpressible comfort. I do believe that's one major question solved for me. About an eye-for-an-eye. I was right to hold on to the rope of Islam's peace and compassion.

Sister,

Islam is not a box. Remember Allah forgives us even if our sins reach the sky if we repent.
Eye for an eye is simply exact retribution. If someone steals a rose from me to make amends the thief needs to reimburse me with a rose. You can not ask for more. It has to be equal and just. If, however, I can forgive the robber from the bottom of my heart it is better. It may show the person a personification of mercy and make them firmer believers. I forgive out of my Love and Fear of Allah.

Allah's Law is Just.

I agree sis. Your words are wise. However in debate to Christians, they always rebuke the thought of an-eye-for-an-eye because they claim it shows no mercy, and forgiveness in Christianity is apparent; that an eye-for-an-eye is Draconian and the devil's way. That Jesus taught forgiveness, which they claim "is not there in Islam". Not all Christians, though. Just the ones who outspokenly disagree with Shariah Law.

I agree with the first two. But how can peace be maintained by force?

I do believe that even police use force to preserve the peace. It's impossible to stop crime without force, isn't it?

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Ok when you debate with Christians you have to have an understanding of which sect they belong to. Hellfire and brimstone was taught in the Church.

How can you debate the consequences of sin to a people who do not have sin? The error in Christianity that has made it so appealing is the influence of the Zionists. They have taken away sin. Everything is ok.

You are debating with ignorant people who do not know their own history. You are debating with people who have not read the Bible.

Besides in the penal system we have the death penalty. Have you ever smelled a prison after an electrocution. Think of the number of times the lethal injection has gone wrong. Do you realize what happens to a human being when they are being poisoned to death. In the US you can still be hung. Please tell me where is the forgiveness.

What Christian can talk to you about Allah's Law!!!

I am not going to debate you who still have lynchings in your country. Your law changes from second to second.

There is no forgiveness in the codes of the Christians. If you had forgiveness you would not have Guantanamo Bay still opened. You would not incarcerate youth for marijuana possession. You would not shoot civilians in the back on subway stations. You would not kill first and ask questions later.

Now I have to go.

 

[Um Ibrahim]

Assalammualaikum all.

This is a thread that I have kept delaying to make. First of all, I'm disappointed in my iman when it comes to Shariah Law. And when I bring up Shariah Law, I know it has a vast meaning to it; I'm emphasizing on the hudud law and criminal punishment part. Lately, though, I have had an iman boost and am looking at Islam in a more refreshing, un-close-minded way, and I'm really happy with everything. Don't get me wrong, I've been born Muslim, practice Islam well, Alhamdulillah, and love Allah and believe in Islam. I do, however, have nagging doubts, and I thought it best to clear it with knowledge, especially during this iman peak of mine. Surah An-Nas speaks of doubts, too.

I am a peace-loving person by nature. I simply hate, hate, HATE violence. I can't stand it. I can't watch gory things. I know Islam is peaceful. But somehow my mind can understand Shariah Law as much as peaceful Islam in general. And when I've been in discussions with others, they often point out that I've been too "brainwashed" to accept any other truth. I don't let them go to my head so much, but at the end of the day, this question lingers: "Am I so brainwashed that I can't understand that Shariah Law, is really not the right thing (at least according to them?" I infer to myself that Alhamdulillah, Allah Loves me and is giving me guidance. But then again, isn't that what other people of different faiths say when we offer them the message of Islam? Please note that I'm not saying Shariah Law isn't the right thing, I'm just confused at what my feelings are.

I'll get down to the questions. Please understand however, that these questions are of curious nature, and not to offend people or try to refute Islam. I'm simply keeping an open mind when asking so I can answer others and so I can be contented; I'm asking it the way others have asked so blatantly, so it's more relatable. Forgive me Allah, if I have transgressed.

1)Why does Shariah Law have to be torture before death?/Painful death?/Death in a very painful way?

2)Why does Islam practice an 'eye-for-an-eye' in these matters? Isn't that a vengeful way out? Forgiveness in Islam was also heavily emphasized. I would think that a hurt family member would have wanted the killer killed.

3)I've heard the church burnings of before were done to save the burning person from the even more dangerous "fires of Hell." And then they say Islam wants the accused to be saved from an even greater danger (Hell), which is why the rapist for example, has to be set to death.

4)Why are apostates killed? Freedom of religion is emphasized in Islam, so why is there an apostasy rule? There are answers in my head, but I still can't comprehend it.

5)Islam cannot change its rules. I accept Shariah Law, I guess, but it's easier said than done. If I saw it with my own eyes, being carried out, I'm very scared of what will happen to my faith. Any way of understanding the wisdom behind Shariah Law?

6)What does "stoning" mean?

7)Why doesn't Islam offer rehabilitation for homosexuals? I'm not making my own rules, btw. Why is it stoning instead? What is the validity of this:

"Maududi vol. 2, p. 52, note 68):

. . . Ibn Abbas ruled that they be thrown headlong from the highest summit."

Please understand that it is not my intention to mislead or offend, nau'uzubillah. I myself have no proper knowledge on this matter. I believe in Islam; it has far too clear a message to ignore. I am trying to learn, since a lot of websites do not explain this matter satisfactorily to me. They don't give proper reasons, therefore this doubt lingers on. May Allah Forgive me if I've said anything wrong.

:salam2

Firstly, I want to tell you that shaytan will always be at war with us until the day we die. So the more you become interested in the religion, the more you want to practice it and do well, the more you want to get closer to Allah, shaytan will work so hard to come to you from all directions just to make you have doubts and become confused especially at subjects such as these. When doubts and questions keep coming back to you even after knowledgeable people have provided the correct answers, then you must know that this is waswaas. It is the shaytan casting doubts in your head. Many people go through such stages in their life when they turn to Allah sincerely and want to practice the religion honestly. . so it is better to accept that Shariah law is the way it is because that is how the Prophet taught us, and most of it is also in the Quran.

Secondly, let's use logic. You asked questions such as "Why does Islam practice an 'eye-for-an-eye' in these matters?" and does a rapist really have to be killed? Imagine if someone raped you? Would you want that person to be left alone and given a "chance"? I don't think so. The other thing is, people such as rapists usually don't do what they do just once, it's a bad habit that they have and they will keep doing it until someone else stops them. You have to understand that Islam protects justice. Islam practices an 'eye-for-eye because it teaches people lessons not to just kill, steal, cheat, etc. If someone kills another person's brother, husband, father or any other member of their family they will be hurt and they would want justice. It's a right that Allah has given to us to request that the person who killed to be killed also.

This is what disgusts me about many western countries, you will see grown men who kidnap little children the ages of 10 and down and sexually molest them, torture them and then kill them, dump their tiny bodies in rivers and alleys. And when the person who did that is caught, what does he get 'a life sentence' in jail...what is that?! that just makes me even more angry! No someone like doesn't deserve to live, and it's disgusting and very stupid that they get to be in jail where they will be given food, place to shower and exercise. That's not even right. Shariah Law makes much more sense to me than many of the so-called civilized nations' laws.

 

[arzafar]

This is what disgusts me about many western countries, you will see grown men who kidnap little children the ages of 10 and down and sexually molest them, torture them and then kill them, dump their tiny bodies in rivers and alleys. And when the person who did that is caught, what does he get 'a life sentence' in jail...what is that?! that just makes me even more angry!

Moreover, the victim's family and the rest of the community pay for the food, bed, shelter and even education of the imprisoned criminals through their taxes. That's just about as ridiculous as it gets.

 

[hayat84]

:salam2:
I totally agree with Sharyiah law...I understand the intent of this law,and I substain its justice,by the way it comes from Allah's decree.omosexuals were punished at the time of Sodoma and Gomorra,but they still live among us like normal humans.are they normal?two men/women exchanging effusion in front of people???if one of my children only tries to make something against what I teach him/her,I am able to make my best to make him/her change the behaviour and why not?if he/she steals/kills/fornicates...must be punished.it depends from the education of the parents.I'm really severe in certain matters and don't forgive mistakes against Sunnah...But if my children one day will not accept their islamic origin,and do all that kuffar do,well they'll must do it far from me.I can't accept apostasy,and I hope Allah will help me to keep the Iman of my children strong like a rock.

 

[lightofnur]

Wa'alaikumussalam all.

Assalaam walaikum,

Ok when you debate with Christians you have to have an understanding of which sect they belong to. Hellfire and brimstone was taught in the Church.

How can you debate the consequences of sin to a people who do not have sin? The error in Christianity that has made it so appealing is the influence of the Zionists. They have taken away sin. Everything is ok.

You are debating with ignorant people who do not know their own history. You are debating with people who have not read the Bible.

Besides in the penal system we have the death penalty. Have you ever smelled a prison after an electrocution. Think of the number of times the lethal injection has gone wrong. Do you realize what happens to a human being when they are being poisoned to death. In the US you can still be hung. Please tell me where is the forgiveness.

What Christian can talk to you about Allah's Law!!!

I am not going to debate you who still have lynchings in your country. Your law changes from second to second.

There is no forgiveness in the codes of the Christians. If you had forgiveness you would not have Guantanamo Bay still opened. You would not incarcerate youth for marijuana possession. You would not shoot civilians in the back on subway stations. You would not kill first and ask questions later.

Now I have to go.

I understand your answers and some are really valid (about sins). I think what those Christians were debating, however, was about how Jesus is forgiving by nature. And he "would not want ..." That sort of thing you know. Whereas they argue of Allah's Compassion, nau'zubillah, saying that a compassionate God would not lay down "such harsh, violent rules". I have my own counter for this, but I am still interested in what others have to say about this.

Forgive me sister, but I do believe that Guantanamo Bay/punishments as you described, etc. have little to do with the laws of Christians, I think? I think it leans more towards the laws of specific governments, statutes, rules, countries, etc. I do recall reading that stoning was in the Bible as well, but if Christians don't debate, then atheists, who lack any religious beliefs, would say that the "Gods of both religions" are not compassionate, and they'll do just fine without God. :O

I hope I haven't offended you sister.

:salam2

Firstly, I want to tell you that shaytan will always be at war with us until the day we die. So the more you become interested in the religion, the more you want to practice it and do well, the more you want to get closer to Allah, shaytan will work so hard to come to you from all directions just to make you have doubts and become confused especially at subjects such as these. When doubts and questions keep coming back to you even after knowledgeable people have provided the correct answers, then you must know that this is waswaas. It is the shaytan casting doubts in your head. Many people go through such stages in their life when they turn to Allah sincerely and want to practice the religion honestly. . so it is better to accept that Shariah law is the way it is because that is how the Prophet taught us, and most of it is also in the Quran.

Secondly, let's use logic. You asked questions such as "Why does Islam practice an 'eye-for-an-eye' in these matters?" and does a rapist really have to be killed? Imagine if someone raped you? Would you want that person to be left alone and given a "chance"? I don't think so. The other thing is, people such as rapists usually don't do what they do just once, it's a bad habit that they have and they will keep doing it until someone else stops them. You have to understand that Islam protects justice. Islam practices an 'eye-for-eye because it teaches people lessons not to just kill, steal, cheat, etc. If someone kills another person's brother, husband, father or any other member of their family they will be hurt and they would want justice. It's a right that Allah has given to us to request that the person who killed to be killed also.

This is what disgusts me about many western countries, you will see grown men who kidnap little children the ages of 10 and down and sexually molest them, torture them and then kill them, dump their tiny bodies in rivers and alleys. And when the person who did that is caught, what does he get 'a life sentence' in jail...what is that?! that just makes me even more angry! No someone like doesn't deserve to live, and it's disgusting and very stupid that they get to be in jail where they will be given food, place to shower and exercise. That's not even right. Shariah Law makes much more sense to me than many of the so-called civilized nations' laws.

Your answer makes a lot of sense, and I relate to the first paragraph of your answer.

As for the second, I do understand what you're saying. However, when I brought up the questions, I didn't do it to support the idea of giving a rapist a chance. I asked about it in the sense whether an apostate gets a second chance so that he could embrace Islam again, probably with more certainty, or that a homosexual could stop engaging in homosexual acts and strive towards Islam, that kind of second chance. I'm not talking about a rapist in particular, and I can't imagine the horror of being raped.

I do think that rape is a horrible, unthinkable act.

Moreover, the victim's family and the rest of the community pay for the food, bed, shelter and even education of the imprisoned criminals through their taxes. That's just about as ridiculous as it gets.

I agree, it's really ridiculous.

:salam2:
I totally agree with Sharyiah law...I understand the intent of this law,and I substain its justice,by the way it comes from Allah's decree.Homosexuals were punished at the time of Sodoma and Gomorra,but they still live among us like normal humans.are they normal?two men/women exchanging effusion in front of people???if one of my children only tries to make something against what I teach him/her,I am able to make my best to make him/her change the behaviour and why not?if he/she steals/kills/fornicates...must be punished.it depends from the education of the parents.I'm really severe in certain matters and don't forgive mistakes against Sunnah...But if my children one day will not accept their islamic origin,and do all that kuffar do,well they'll must do it far from me.I can't accept apostasy,and I hope Allah will help me to keep the Iman of my children strong like a rock.

I pray that we all keep iman in these tough times too. Any parent would want their children to keep strong in faith. But I have to say one thing ... homosexuals are humans, even if what they are doing is probably going against the laws of nature. I don't think we can say that they aren't normal humans and that they can't live among us. What is unnatural is the act of homosexuals. We have to be cautious with our words, sister, if you don't mind me saying.