Sperm from backbone help!

[Zafran]

no actually your iman has weakened because you don't pray 5 times and read the Quran. i said water comes from between the ribs and backbone, not from backbone. read again carefully.

it contributes to the formation of the male semen. the semen has many things: sperm, blood, glucose, water, protein, amino acids etc. why do you think the semen is in liquid form? do you think the semen comes directly from the male testicles where it is stored like that?

the liquid white form of the semen comes together when the sperm is in the vas deferens. the prostrate gland and seminal vesicles add fluid to the sperm which is not yet white liquid. after the mixture of all these substances, then the semen travels to the urethra from where it gushes forth just like the Quran tells.

if a testicle is dissected it will show that sperm are not stored in white form inside. the white form comes from mixture of water, blood and high concentration of glucose with the sperm. this only forms after going throught the prostrate gland.

remember to read carefully before dawah, its water that comes from between the ribs and backbone and forms the liquid part of the semen. it does not come from backbone. anyone who tells you that Quran says sperm comes from backbone is a liar. nowhere in the Quran does it say that. it does not even say nutfah comes from backbone. it says ma'a comes from between ribs and backbone.

but even after all this, if you post the same thing again n again then you are just here to play not for serious answers and i think you should reconsider your faith.

salaam

brother the first part you said is correct but this is one of the things in the Quran which TRANSLATIONS dont do a good job of. In translation it says its from the backbone whilst the other says its from the lions??

This is a common verse that Islamophobes bring up because the translations are weak - and dont be harsh - its hard for people to understand thanks to translations.

Besides there rae m,nay meanings to it - one is about embrology.

 

[sazk]

the problem is that you two are hitting reply and typing and typing without even pausing and opening the Quran.

it clearly uses the word ma'a not nutfah. ma'a is water in arabic.

second thing is that it clearly says sulb (backbone) wa (and) taraa'ib (ribs).

its clear as daylight. sulb wa taraa'ib. backbone and ribs. any muslim who can recite the Quran can see it. any muslim in the world who can read the Quran can see this. but no. you don't see it because you don't want to see it. you don't want to do wudu and open the Quran. kuffar just like to say from backbone from backbone from backbone again n again! this is a clear lie. the Quran clearly says mim baini sulbi wa taraa'ib. between backbone and ribs

 

[Prosperous]

well, being a med student, well graduating next yr insha allah.
i Knoe more than just O'lvel or A'level biology.
acccording to human physiology and embryology this verse is true.
as when a human being is in embry stage,the testicles are in their abdomen(pelvis) which later get DROPPRD off to the scrotum.so the organ is developed in pelvis.between the ribs and backbone very specifically.
here is this medically explained.
gonads developed from,,
1. Primordia: gonadal ridges (coelomic epithelium + mesenchyme), primordial germ cells,
2. Indifferent stage:
1) Gonadal ridges --> primary sex cords
2)Yolk sac -->primordial germ cells >> migrate into primary sex cords
3. Development of testis
1) Y --> SRY --> primary sex cords --> testicular cords --> seminiferous tubules -->
epithelial cells --> Sertoli cells and primordial germ cells --> spermatogonia.(primary germcells)
well,as this clearly shows testis is developed in the abdominal region which later descends in to scrotum
here is how it descends.
Descent of the testis
The Mesenchyme of testis is gubernaculums.In later stages of embryonic growth Rapid body growth takes place which leads to guberniculum shortening,so the TESTES DESCENDS THROUGH THE INGUINAL CANAL TO SCROTUM.and the Peritoneal sac is formed by vaginal process forming tunicavaginalis.{notee: human embryo is a bit bend into half circle shape,where there ribs fill almost entire body from neck to perineum}
So actually the primary germ cells are already formed b4 it descends into scrotym while it was in the abdominal region, later in puberty and adult stage, the spermatogonia just differentiate and maturate to sperm cells eith the help of androgens and sertoli cells. so its not formed actually in scrotum.
i guess this is one example where qur'an states 1400 yrs ago this thing,while we came to know this only this cenury.
tell ur athiest siper scientist to reveal science,he will know spermatogonia is formed when testis is still in pelvic region.and more over,
semen is is a mixture of sperm+seminal fluid+prostatic secretions.
which are also situated in the pelvic region.the artery for testis is situated in pelvis,.so there is no way a sceintist can tell the way qur'an tells about semen is not true,. this are just what i studied. and allah knows best.

 

[ShyHijabi]

salaam

this is the main focus

"The germ cells which later develop into sperms originate from between the backbone and the ribs, ofcourse when they turn into sperms they reside in the male testicles."

nothing to fo with the fliuds

Actually this brother nailed it on the head, the germ cells (which later is what the testicles and thus the sperm rise from this area. So in the end it has nothing to with the digestive and fluids rising from the spine. I found this very enlightening as I had never made the connection between my medical knowledge and the Quran before.

Wasalaam

 

[sazk]

remember it doesn't have to be one way or the other. this is not exclusive. the verse means both things. descending of the gonads and also contribution of water, from between ribs and backbone (not from backbone), to form the semen. because both things are correct, they are not wrong. descend of gonads starts from between ribs and backbone. also during the formation of semen water is contributed from between ribs and backbone. its amazing how a single verse can talk so much.

for example, pages and pages have been written on the first verse of the Quran. but to the naked eye it looks like a single verse with 4 words.

similar is the case with other verses in the Quran such as this one concerning water from between ribs and backbone. besides the Quran very clearly says everything is made up of water. and science has found this to be true

 

[ShyHijabi]

besides the Quran very clearly says everything is made up of water. and science has found this to be true

Brother could you provide the ayah please? I have a degree in Chemistry and can very clearly state that everything is not made from water. Water is two hydrogen atoms and on oxygen atom, there are many more elements that make up the things on this earth, many of them not containing hydrogen nor oxygen.

Carbon is actually the basis of all organic life as it is such a versitile atom, can bond in four directions and such. Now many scientists will clearly state that life as we know it requires water, maybe that is what the ayah means? I look forward to reading it as this has been a fun intellectual exercise.

 

[sazk]

oops sister my bad. i ate a word out accidentally. that's why i didn't quote. to quote exactly:

"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" (chapter 21 verse 30)

this is the exact quotation. sorry i didn't quote it before.astaghfirullah. when i was saying everything, the thought was going thru my head: every living thing. sometimes human thought processes don't acknowledge every single word of the english language.

 

[Prosperous]

:salam2:
.

Brother could you provide the ayah please? I have a degree in Chemistry and can very clearly state that everything is not made from water. Water is two hydrogen atoms and on oxygen atom, there are many more elements that make up the things on this earth, many of them not containing hydrogen nor oxygen.

Carbon is actually the basis of all organic life as it is such a versitile atom, can bond in four directions and such. Now many scientists will clearly state that life as we know it requires water, maybe that is what the ayah means? I look forward to reading it as this has been a fun intellectual exercise.

yea sis shyhijabi,i also have done chem also,u r very correct,and as far i know,i never read a verse saying everything is made up of water.

 

[ShyHijabi]

Thank you for providing that brother, I literally got a chill down my spine at the power of those words. That is absolutely amazing that those words were written so long ago before man knew anything about chemistry. Mashallah.

 

[sazk]

apologies english isn't my first language. in my mind i had the idea of every living thing but it didn't materialize out when i typed/said. its not everything. its every living thing. astaghfirullah. man is prone to error.

man i'm still trembling how could i get this wrong

 

[ShyHijabi]

apologies english isn't my first language. in my mind i had the idea of every living thing but it didn't materialize out when i typed/said. its not everything. its every living thing. astaghfirullah. man is prone to error.

man i'm still trembling how could i get this wrong

Relax brother, Allah swt knows your intentions and you quickly corrected it. You knowledge of Arabic vocabulary is invaluable here.

 

[Happy 2BA Muslim]

:salam2:

Question: Allah says: “So let man see from what he is created. He is created from a water gushing forth - proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs” [Sûrah al-Târiq: 5-7]

This verse states that sperm originates from between the ribs and the spine. The problem is that it is a known fact sperm is created in the testicles. What is more disturbing is that this same idea was espoused in ancient Greece by Hippocrates about 1100 years before the time of Muhammad (peace be upon him).

Please clarify this matter for me.


Answered by the Scientific Research Committee - IslamToday.net


It is inconceivable that the true word of Allah could ever contradict scientific fact, since the universe is Allah's creation, and Allah fully knows what He created. A Muslim, when faced with what appears to be a contradiction between the Qur’ân and a scientific fact knows there can only be two possibilities:

1. That which is being construed as a scientific “fact” is not in actuality a fact.

2. The verse that is being construed as being in conflict with science is being misinterpreted, misapplied, or misunderstood.

Any claim being made that there is a contradiction between science and the Qur’ân has to be evaluated individually. The factuality of the scientific claim needs to be assessed as well as the true meaning of the verse that is supposedly at variance with it.

It is an inarguable fact that sperm is created in the testicles. Therefore, we must make sure we are understanding these verses correctly. We must look carefully at the verses to ascertain exactly what the Qur’ân is saying and – more importantly – what it is not saying.

There are some serious problems with this translation and the assumptions made therein.

To begin with, these verses say nothing whatsoever about the creation of sperm or the creation of anything else. Consequently, they do not inform us of where the creation of sperm takes place. They merely say that the substances under discussion come out form the places being described. The word being used is “yakhruj” meaning “to exit, leave, come out, emerge”. It in no way implies anything related to creation or origination.

Secondly, the phrase “mâ’ dâfiq” (emitted fluid) is not restricted in meaning to sperm but is used in Arabic for both the sperm and the egg. Ibn Kathîr, in his commentary on this verse, writes: “It emanates from the man and the woman, and with Allah’s permission, the child comes forth as a product of both.”

Thirdly, the words translated as “backbone” (sulb) and “ribs” (tarâ’ib) are not understood in Arabic to belong to the same person. Arabs understand the “sulb” to refer to a part of the male body and the “tarâ’ib” to a part of the female. Ibn Kathîr states: “It refers to the ‘sulb’ of the man and the ‘tarâ’ib’ of the woman, which is the area of her chest.” He then quotes this interpretation on the authority of the Prophet’s companion Ibn `Abbâs. This same understanding is given in all the major classical works of Qur’anic commentary.

Moreover, the word “sulb” should not necessarily be translated as “backbone”. This word has many possible meanings and backbone is only one of them. It is also quite commonly used to mean the loins of a man. This is how it is used elsewhere in the Qur’ân. Allah says: “Prohibited to you (for marriage) are…wives of your sons proceeding from your loins (aslâb, the plural of sulb).” [Sûrah al-Nisâ’: 23] There can be no problem with sperm coming out from the area of a man's loins.

Likewise, when we look at the word being translated as “ribs” (tarâ’ib, the plural of tarîbah) we find that it is used linguistically for the general are of the chest and the abdomen. In al-Qâmûs, the famous classical dictionary of al-Fayrûzabâdî it is defined as a number of things: “the bones of the chest or what comes after the two collarbones or what comes between the collarbones and the chest or the four ribs to the right of the chest or the four ribs to the left of the chest or the hands, eyes and feet or the collarbones.” Some Companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and some Successors had also provided many possible meanings, like the lower ribs and al-Dahhâk’s statement that it is the area between the breasts and feet and the eyes (a mere indication of centrality).

This word clearly has a very broad and diverse definition. It is so ambiguous a word that the Companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him) could not give it a precise definition. Scholars of Qur’ânic commentary have consistently admitted to there being at least three different possible meanings for this word as it is used in the verse. This is an admission that they do not know for certain what the tarâ’ib are, except that they generally agree it refers to an area of the woman’s body. It can apply to any region nearing the ribcage. Therefore, the area of the ovaries, the fallopian tubes, or the uterus can easily fit into the general area that is being indicated by these verses.

What we are dealing with here is a gross error in translation and not a scientific error at all.

:salam2:

 

[mhamzah]

Yusuf Ali:

[086:005] Now let man but think from what he is created!

[086:006] He is created from a drop emitted-

[086:007] Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs


Pickthall:

[086:005] So let man consider from what he is created.

[086:006] He is created from a gushing fluid

[086:007] That issued from between the loins and ribs


Sher Ali:

[086:005] So let man consider of what he is created.

[086:006] He is created of a gushing fluid,

[086:007] Which issues forth from between the loins and the breastbones.

Shakir:

[086:005] So let man consider of what he is created:

[086:006] He is created of water pouring forth,

[086:007] Coming from between the back and the ribs.


Dr. Munir Munshey

[086:005] Let man look at (and bear in mind) the substance he is created from!

[086:006] (He is) created from the surging fluid!

[086:007] Which springs from between the spine and the ribs.


Muhammad Al-Hilali & Muhsin Khan:

[086:005] So let man see from what he is created!

[086:006] He is created from a water gushing forth

[086:007] Proceeding from between the back-bone and the ribs,

Palmer:

[086:005] Then let man look from what he is created:

[086:006] he is created from water poured forth,

[086:007] that comes out from between the loins and the breast bones.

Arberry:

[086:005] So let man consider of what he was created;

[086:006] he was created of gushing water

[086:007] issuing between the loins and the breast-bones.


086.005

Muhsin Khan: So let man see from what he is created!

Sahih International: So let man observe from what he was created.


086.006


Muhsin Khan: He is created from a water gushing forth.

Sahih International: He was created from a fluid, ejected,


086.007


Muhsin Khan: Proceeding from between the back-bone and the ribs,

Sahih International: Emerging from between the backbone and the ribs.


The Bible, The Qur'an and Science
by Dr. Maurice Bucaille

http://www.ymsite.com/books/tbqs/20human.htm

THE QUR'AN AND SEX EDUCATION

Our epoch believes that it has made manifold discoveries in all possible fields. It is thought that great innovations have been made in the field of sex education, and the knowledge of the facts of life which has been opened up to young people is regarded as an achievement of the modern world. Previous centuries were noted for their deliberate obscurity on this point and many people say that religion-without stating which religion-is the cause of it.

The information set out above is proof however that fourteen centuries ago theoretical questions (as it were) on human reproduction were brought to man's attention. This was done as far as was possible, taking into account the fact that the anatomical and physiological data needed for further explanations were lacking. One should also remember that, to be understood, it was necessary to use simple language suited to the level of comprehension of those who listened to the Preaching.

Practical considerations have not been silently ignored. There are many details in the Qur'an on the practical side of life in general, and the way man should behave in the many situations of his existence. His sex life is no exception.

Two verses in the Qur'an deal with sexual relations themselves. They are described in terms which unite the need for precision with that of decency. When translations and explanatory commentaries are consulted however, one is struck by the divergences between them. I have pondered for a long time on the translation of such verses, and am indebted to Doctor A. K. Giraud, Former Professor at the Faculty of Medicine, Beirut, for the following:

--sura 86, verse 6 and 7:

"(Man) was fashioned from a liquid poured out. It issued (as a result) of the conjunction of the sexual area of the man and the sexual area of the woman." The sexual area of the man is indicated in the text of the Qur'an by the world sulb (singular). The sexual areas of the woman are designated in the Qur'an by the word tara'ib (plural).

This is the translation which appears to be most satisfactory. It is different from the one that is often given by English and French translators, i.e. " (Man) has been created by a liquid poured out which issues from between the vertebral column and the bones of the breast." This would seem more to be an interpretation than a translation. It is hardly comprehensible.

The behavior of a man in his intimate relationships with his wife is stated explicitly.

 

[slaveofAllah88]

aslam o alikum
you brothers and sisters are awesom i love you all for the sake of ALlah (swt) and brother sazk dont worry your english is great everyone makes mistakes but brother can i please say something, please be more polite, I know the verse is there in the Quran i'm just not understanding what it means cuz im not a medical doctor ... aur jab bhi non muslims se baat karte hain they want proof which we should always have, then there is no different between me and the christian missionary who basis everything on what bible says.
I believe Quran is the word of God, but not everyone understand it properly so we gotto show that the wisdom of Allah (swt) if we are rude and impolite to people no will be look at Islam in a good manner.

Allah says:
Invite all to the way of thy lord with Wisdom and Beautiful preaching, and reason with them in the ways that are best and most gracious

I think we all should follow that =)