Malaysia appoints 1st female Islamic court judges

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

You know what, I love you guys. Honestly.

I have been contemplating how to start saving money for my hajj. And, InshaAllah, I will make dua.

One of the thoughts that came across my mind was to have long sleeve shirts with the the words Muslim With Attitude embossed or printed or silk screened on it. As I read through the responses, mine included, I thought I know why you are brillant..lets see with a billion hot headed Muslims ...I could be in Mecca next year and take all my TTI family with me.

 

[a_stranger]

:salam2:
<<These scholars used their entire life to compile hadiths and their knowledge is nothing to ours even if we were to memories everything. We do not have the same wisdom they have.>>

I agree with sister revert2007. If we study life of those scholars we will find the differance between us and them : we can`t just neglect their efforts.

More I like to add that Islam through it`s teachings takes care very much about human relations and emotions ... Family and children are very important in Islam........... their needs, their emotions should be taken into account , To have good devot mothers and wifes in a muslem society is a very important issue , we can`t just ignore such important sensitive role for women just to say that they equal to men . “Heaven is under the feet of mothers” what is more higher that than. I think our world in trying to drag women out of their houses are doing a grave mistake since no one can replace the true mother for a child .....We don`t need to be judges or rulers to be important......we have a greater and a great job in our houses ....to raise a stable decent genaration is an important role for a women . By the way I have master degree in science and i worked for a while but when i had children i reliazed how it is important to be a full time mother.
And Allah knows best.



With regards for all brothers and sisters

 

[Valerie]

On the topic of scholars, I won't dismiss what they say. I will say, however, that there's so much out there, I'm not sure if anyone, even the scholars, could know the ruling on every topic. It's overwhelming. What (small) issue I do have is that when I was looking at my husband's family's religion (catholicism), I couldn't fully commit to it because I couldn't believe that a man (the pope) was incapable of being wrong, even on religious topics. He's human. And that's the concern I have with the scholars. I mean no disrespect to them, I just am not sure they are incapable of being wrong. That's just my feeling. I apologize if it offends anyone.

 

[a_stranger]

On the topic of scholars, I won't dismiss what they say. I will say, however, that there's so much out there, I'm not sure if anyone, even the scholars, could know the ruling on every topic. It's overwhelming. What (small) issue I do have is that when I was looking at my husband's family's religion (catholicism), I couldn't fully commit to it because I couldn't believe that a man (the pope) was incapable of being wrong, even on religious topics. He's human. And that's the concern I have with the scholars. I mean no disrespect to them, I just am not sure they are incapable of being wrong. That's just my feeling. I apologize if it offends anyone.

:salam2:sister

I agree with you no one is incapable of being wrong only the prophets because Allah sobhanahu wa taala taught them anyone else can be wrong : This is a very clear concept in Islam. But to say a Fatwa we need a good knowledge in Quran and Sunna not anyone have.

 

[ahmed_indian]

Assalamualikum.
I myself looking for the evidence.Don't blame me as born Muslims are the one to tell me all kind of stuffs.I myself did not come with this "fatwa".If you go to Malaysia and ask any Muslims about this line,they will know and they will say yes.So my question is where do they get this idea from?

Assalamualikum

:salam2:,

i was not blaming you sister for this. i was just stating in general terms that whoever says that its in Islam is wrong because we cant find it in Quran or hadiths.

 

[revert2007]

:salam2:,

i was not blaming you sister for this. i was just stating in general terms that whoever says that its in Islam is wrong because we cant find it in Quran or hadiths.

Assalamualikum.
Alhamdulilah I have learned that this ine wasn't true.So I won't repeat the same mistake.I actually have consulted a few people and everyone told be it is not from Quran and Sunnah.OK I accept.Chill

Jazaka Allah Khair to Sister Hassana for her wonderful post.She just said what is really important.Just to add a few.

Is it permissible for a woman to be a public figure?
Is it permissible for a woman to wear make up(in public) and lead a court room?

Just look at the job itself.How it is done.You might get killed easily if you pass wrong judgement.If it is a woman,most likely to be rapped.In Malaysia there has been a few cases where judges and lawyers being killed.Woman are not strong enough to go through this situation.We are not randomly talking about any man can be judge.We are talking about the very qualified man and woman and the issue here is some people choosewoman over the qualified man.


For someone who said what if a woman has got her menopouse and her kids are grown up.

I would say,she might still has a husband and must take care of him.If she is to be an old woman and you think she can be judge,I would personally say,she better be prepare for her death and get herself closer to ALlah by doing more ibadah than being a judge that doesn't bring any benefits for hereafter.

A woman can easily enter Jannah if she does jihad in her house by taking care of her family.Family here means everyone including husband and kids.She must do her responsibility towards others and that is what Allah will question.It is in hadith.Sorry I can't find now.

If people going to use western mentality and argue about Muslim women,then please do not do so.Muslims do not need western mentality.We need Muslim mentality which is much wiser.

Allah knows the best.
Assalamualikum

 

[Abu Talib]

Some will jump in and quote a hadeeth that says, "No people ever prosper who appoint over them a woman." This hadeeth has been shown by many scholars to be doubtful, because it was narrated by a convicted felon! His name was Abu-Bakra. He was convicted of bearing false testimony in an adultery case. Umar ibn Al-Khattaab, may God have been pleased with him, flogged him eighty times and never allowed his testimony, as Chapter 24 mandates. A man whose testimony is permanently rejected cannot be believed in any narration he gives.

You still haven't shown which scholars doubted this Hadith and so allof his 132 hadiths reported are void?

Didn't The Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) said "Do not speak ill of my companions, because if one of you were to give in charity gold the size of Mt. Uhud it would not reach the amount they gave with their two hands, not even half of this".

 

[arzafar]

You still haven't shown which scholars doubted this Hadith and so allof his 132 hadiths reported are void?

Didn't The Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) said "Do not speak ill of my companions, because if one of you were to give in charity gold the size of Mt. Uhud it would not reach the amount they gave with their two hands, not even half of this".

good point.
i also wanna know th names of scholars who dont accept that hadith.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

I am stunned at the responses. What part do you not understand. There is NOTHING that states women can not be judges. NOTHING.

The prejudice towards women is sutpefying. I have seen responses that are invalid. I have read lines that made me grab my chair. I can not believe that Islam is putting out minds that are so closed.

Folks...on the day of Judgement no scholar is going to help you...the scholar is going to have to help himself. Where and when did people stop thinking.
People are so busy they are making comments that should not be made.

There are responses which are short of petty. The responses are redundant. The responses are rude. Wisdom has been attacked. There is a lot of opinion going on here. I find that funny for people who can not act without the benefit of a scholar.

If this is what you think about women...go back and read the Quran.

 

[Seeking Allah's Mercy]

:salam2:wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu...

wow now that i think of it more i get more confused

here what comes in my mind and get all messed up.

WOMEN CAN'T BE LEADER BECAUSE:

1.Man is the leader of the family as is discussed above.means the family follows what he says including his wife.so how can someone whose already under someone else and have to follow his way be a leader.shouldn't a leader be independant of all pressures except that of ALLAH's.Advicing a leader is different thing and ordering him is another.A woman will have to follow orders from her husband,a man needs not!!

2.for muslims the imaam(who leads the prayers)is a leader.on community basis or national its the imaam who leads.but muslim women are not allowed to be imaams.i say imaam,coz it's him who leads us while we are doing the most important thing in our life.when the slaves of ALLAH bow to HIM.it's the man who leads so how can a women lead in other cases??

3.we all agree and it's proven from surah yousuf that all our religious leaders(the prophets)were MEN!!the purpose for which you are born(to serve ALLAH) is lead and directed by a man.NOT women..

4.i want to have the referance to the fact the hadith is fabricated if someone hasn't asked for it already.

5.A women requires a mahram when she travels,talks to non mahrams and deals with them.she's again not independant.how's she to lead if she requires her father,brother husband presence all time.what if they are not around then what.....hindrance in leadership???


and here is why,
WOMEN CAN BE A LEADER:


1.story of queen bilquees akhi ayman refered to.she was an able and intelligent leader of her people,and the Quran doesn't say it was wrong for her to do so.

2.also it came to me last night that hadhrat ayesha(R.A)lead in the battle after hadhrat usmans's(R.A) matyrdom....so had it been something real wrong wouldn' she know???



also the arguments prove that if:

1..a women is unmarried,is married but has no kids or the kids are independant.

2.she covers herself(like the female companions of the prophet,his daughters,wives etc.)wears,hijaab,jilbab,niqaab etc.so that only her hands OR hands and face is seen.

3.talks to men only when required and in straight tones.

4.and her mahrams(father,brother,husband)have no problem with her doing a job other then her homely duties....


.....then she's okay to lead



sobhanallah this is really messed up lolzzz!!


now be please if someone can correct me if i'm wrong.and answer the above.it's about a judge but the cases are both inter related.so if lady can be a leader she can defo be a judge.

jazakallah khairan!!

P.S would have used the VM service to the members but the word limit is a problem so bear with me

 

[Seeking Allah's Mercy]

Assalaam walaikum,

I am stunned at the responses. What part do you not understand. There is NOTHING that states women can not be judges. NOTHING.

The prejudice towards women is sutpefying. I have seen responses that are invalid. I have read lines that made me grab my chair. I can not believe that Islam is putting out minds that are so closed.

Folks...on the day of Judgement no scholar is going to help you...the scholar is going to have to help himself. Where and when did people stop thinking.
People are so busy they are making comments that should not be made.

There are responses which are short of petty. The responses are redundant. The responses are rude. Wisdom has been attacked. There is a lot of opinion going on here. I find that funny for people who can not act without the benefit of a scholar.

If this is what you think about women...go back and read the Quran.

woow aapa:lol:calm down why get so emotional???think what about women??everybodys is like this okay we asking Qs not fighting lol....chill pill??

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

As I am the eldest female on this forum I would wish some of the members take that into consideration. I am not being emotional. I am being rational. It is intellectually stunning to see such poor reasoning skills. The redundancy of the same questions leads one to believe that little time has been devoted to understanding the salient issue. The issue was about a specific vocation and is there any evidience why a woman could not be appointed that responisibility.

The train was wrecked along the path. We have derailed into paths that verge on sexism. We have been rude to each other. We have belittled eachother and are still derailed. What is the worst trend I am seeing is the thinking if we can not provide a satisfactory answer for myself I will blame the shortcomings on western society.

I see an error in the thinking of the generation of the internet generation. With the tools of knowledge at your fingertips, the answers are available in nano seconds, there is a cut and paste attitude. There is little reflection.
I see where many want proof. Go seek the answers yourselves.

And then come back.

 

[Seeking Allah's Mercy]

Assalaam walaikum,

As I am the eldest female on this forum I would wish some of the members take that into consideration. I am not being emotional. I am being rational. It is intellectually stunning to see such poor reasoning skills. The redundancy of the same questions leads one to believe that little time has been devoted to understanding the salient issue. The issue was about a specific vocation and is there any evidience why a woman could not be appointed that responisibility.

The train was wrecked along the path. We have derailed into paths that verge on sexism. We have been rude to each other. We have belittled eachother and are still derailed. What is the worst trend I am seeing is the thinking if we can not provide a satisfactory answer for myself I will blame the shortcomings on western society.

I see an error in the thinking of the generation of the internet generation. With the tools of knowledge at your fingertips, the answers are available in nano seconds, there is a cut and paste attitude. There is little reflection.
I see where many want proof. Go seek the answers yourselves.

And then come back.

sorry Aapa you took me wrong or may be i did.i thought you were angry that we still arguing when for you the case is closed!!!i respect you being our elder,very muchthough i don't understand most of what you are.so it was/is a communication problem i suppose,sorry!

 

[al-fajr]

Assalamu'alaykum,

In the history of Islaam not a single woman is known to have falsely narrated a hadeeth, many many men are known to have done so. Congratulations to our lot.

At the end of the day i think it comes down to how much you trust Allaah. I know Allaah hasn't created me stupid ..khalas, I don't care what any man has to say with regards to my intellectual capacity after that, what does he know anyway? Im not concerned about convincing 'him'.

Theres so many more important issues concerning us than this one.

For Muslim men and women,- for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in Charity, for men and women who fast (and deny themselves), for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in Allah's praise,- for them has Allah prepared forgiveness and great reward. (33:35)

The race for Jannah surpasses gender ..Allaah tells us we're too busy to argue. (Should be)

As for being judges or not ..I think its going to be one of those disputed issues. But you know, sometimes women get to a post or a job they thought they wouldn't reach, then they figure 'hmm is this it? ..'

Sisters who felt wounded by this discussion, rise above it and concentrate on what is beyond, Allaah addresses us as 'Ya Ibaadi' ..if we concentrate on what is beyond discussion and dispute, I think we'll find the respect and dignity we deserve, just because a few men of this Ummah spoke in ways which didn't give us that, we turn to the One who does give us it and He always has done. Don't let any doubts about that enter your mind.

If we all feared Allaah before we passed comments or judgements Im sure there would be a lot less peoples feelings hurt. We have a brutal common enemy, are we so quick to forget what unites us? For the love of Allaah, its Ramadhaan soon, mods should close this thread already.

Edit: Im female. Necessary to calrify because 3 years on the forum isn't long enough for people to stop making the mistake of calling me brother lol ..all of you peoples' intelligence in under question if you ask me =P!

 

[Majzoob]

Intellectual Humility

:salam2:


[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftp2qRg2xz4[/yt]

 

[Majzoob]

Intellectual Humility

:salam2:


[yt]ftp2qRg2xz4[/yt]

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

I agree..closure is a good thing at times.

We have raised good questions that would make educational topics.

 

[BrotherInIslam7]

:salam2:

I just read through this thread and was overwhelmed with all the different subtopics discussed in this thread.

A lot of posts in this thread showed that people actually posted here to post their 'preconceived opinions/thoughts' (which was supported by weak/baseless Islamic logic) on the topic, rather than ready to learn about what is the Islamic position on such a matter. And learning this from our righteous predecessors and Ulema (scholars) is not 'blind following' nor is it similar to 'following a pope'. It is part of seeking knowledge ( And that knowledge is Islamic ). The URL of this website is 'Turn to Islam' after all.

 

[BrotherInIslam7]

:salam2:

The below quoted can be a topic of a thread on its own. I would like to respond to brother Ayman with my limited knowledge.

He consulted his wife Umm Salama at the treaty of Hudaybiya. Muslims rebelled and would not obey him. He went into his tent where Umm Salama was staying and helping out and said to her, "Muslims have perished, Umm Salama! I ordered them and they did not comply." She asked him what happened and then gave him a wise, cool-headed advice, "Pack your stuff and start heading back to Medina. When Muslims see you do that, they will follow you." She was right. He did and they did as she expected.

That's an example of the Prophet (PBUH) obeying his wife. BTW, "obey" is not a derogatory word, as some people have come to believe. It simply means to agree with what you're asked to do and do it.

I believe that you are talking about the hadeeth where Umm Salamah RadiAllahu anhu advised the Prophet to go out shave his head and offer his sacrifice and his companions RadiAllahu anhum ajmaeen would soon follow suit.

I can understand that you wanted to show that the Prophet SallAllahu Alleihi Wa Sallam was open minded and valued the opinion of his wives RadiAllahu anhum ajmaeen. However, this was an advice and the Prophet SallAllahu Alleihi Wa Sallam could either take it or leave it. This doesn't mean that Prophet SallAllahu Alleihi Wa Sallam obeyed her or anyone else for that matter. Following someone's advice doesn't mean that one is 'obeying'.

In one battle, the Prophet (PBUH) ordered the troops to camp at some site. A soldier asked him, "Is this a site God ordered you to camp at, or are we talking opinion, war and tactics?" The Prophet (PBUH) answered, "Rather, it's opinion, war and tactics." The man said, "This is no camp site." Then he pointed to another site and the Prophet followed him and the rest of the soldiers as well. That's an example of the Prophet (PBUH) obeying one of his soldiers.

I would like to inform you that this hadeeth is classified as 'weak'. In any case, the companion RadiAllahu Anhu first made sure that it was not a 'revelation' from Allah subhaanaho waa taala, as what the Prophet SallAllahu Alleihi Wa Sallam utters from his mouth forms the basis of what is mandatory or prohibited on muslims.

Once the Prophet SallAllahu Alleihi Wa Sallam clarified, the sahabi RadiAllahu Anhu who possessed good knowledge on the matter, gave him his opinion. The Prophet SallAllahu Alleihi Wa Sallam could have still over ruled him and the companion would have to comply as the Prophet SallAllahu Alleihi Wa Sallam was the 'leader of the army'. So again. this doesn't come under 'obedience'.

This is also something that the 'leader of the household' - the husband is encouraged to follow. He is to consult his wife and value her opinion in Islam. However, obedience is other way around. The wife obeys the husband upto the point where he doesn't ask of her to carry out something haraam 'prohibited'.


Wasalaamalaykum waa rahmatullahi

 

[Valerie]

Assalaam walaikum,

I am stunned at the responses. What part do you not understand. There is NOTHING that states women can not be judges. NOTHING.

The prejudice towards women is sutpefying. I have seen responses that are invalid. I have read lines that made me grab my chair. I can not believe that Islam is putting out minds that are so closed.

Folks...on the day of Judgement no scholar is going to help you...the scholar is going to have to help himself. Where and when did people stop thinking.
People are so busy they are making comments that should not be made.

There are responses which are short of petty. The responses are redundant. The responses are rude. Wisdom has been attacked. There is a lot of opinion going on here. I find that funny for people who can not act without the benefit of a scholar.

If this is what you think about women...go back and read the Quran.

*hug*

I have to say, as a side note, when I first started looking at Islam, I kept seeing how women are respected and Islam gives them more freedom. This thread isn't showing that to me. Maybe more freedom or respect compared to women from a few hundred hears ago, but certainly not now.

People can quote all day long, but it comes down to this. A woman has the education and intelligence to make decisions based on the law. To sit here and say a woman isn't smart enough is an insult.

Intelligence isn't based on which body parts you were born with (male or female). To say women are guided by their emotions more? No. Women wouldn't have to pray in the back and be covered except their hands and faces if men were only guided by their intellect.

If a female makes a decision and her life is threatened because of it, its because the people threatening her life are incapable of responding in any way other than violence and they're the ones with the problem. They're the ones who let their emotions get out of control.

Instead of getting emotional myself, because I get emotional when I talk about subjects I care about and Islam has become one of them (but I'm not feeling emotional right now.. even though I'm a woman), I am going to step back. I'm going to use the Qur'an as my guide. I'm going to pray.

Have a good day.