Malaysia appoints 1st female Islamic court judges

Discussion in 'New and Current Affairs' started by Abu Talib, Jul 8, 2010.

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  1. Aapa
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    Aapa Mirajmom

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    Assalaam walaikum,

    I have been reading all morning. I have not found anything conclusive to state that women can not make decisions in Islamic courts. I did discover in Iran women are so hungry for knowledge a university for women learning Islamic jurisprudence is thriving. In Saudi Arabia women are intergal members of the court system. They are no female judges but women attend court sessions constantly.They have support roles in the system.

    Sister Valerie..I am going to read and digest and pray and chill.

    Sister Seeking Allah's Mercy...I am simply a devout Muslim woman; circumstances have made me very independent; I am dependent on Allah. PM and I will answer all your questions.

    The rest of you: go watch the world cup.
  2. Um Abdur Rahman
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    Um Abdur Rahman Sclava lui Allaah

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    As'salamu aaleikom
    Answer from sheikh Assim al hakeem about Abu Bakrah

    Assalamu alaikum,



    It is one of the outrageous things to say about one of the great companions of our Prophet salla Allahu alaihi wa sallam.



    This great companion narrated a number of our Prophet’s hadeeth that the whole Ummah of Islam has accepted it.



    It is sufficient that both Al Bukhari and Muslim reported his hadeeths in their Saheeh.



    The entire Ummah over the past 15 centuries have accepted his hadeeth and no one ever dared to say such a thing about a companion whom our Prophet salla Allahu alaihi wa sallam died while being pleased with him.



    Imam Ahmed Ibn Hanbal said that the testimony of Abu Bakrah, may Allah be pleased with him as he didn’t slander himself. To slander someone is to say: “you are an adulterer or you are a prostitute”. He was a witness and the testimony of witnesses are not rejected. And in worst case scenario, Allah has accepted their testimony if they repent and do good deeds.



    Other scholars differentiated between narrating a hadeeth and testifying in a court of law.



    Other scholars said that the verses in Suratul Noor refers only to the case of Mother Aisha may Allah be pleased with her.



    On all accounts, whoever says this about this great companion has committed a serious sin and a major one and must repent to Allah for saying such filth about a companion of the Prophet salla Allahu alaihi wa sallam and bluntly accusing him of lying.
  3. arzafar
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    arzafar Junior Member

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    well none of my questions have been answered as yet so plz dont lose this thread yet.

    1) is appointing judges a religious or worldly affair or both?

    2) if it's a religious issue surely the prophet (pbuh) must have laid some guidelines/examples. which males or females did the prophet appoint as a judge? if he didnt appoint anyone as judge then surely it's a worldly affair no?

    3) is leader and judge same or separate in Islam? i mean does the judge have to command muslim army, travel to different lands, meet with people including men, lead congregational prayers etc.?

    4) which scholars have stated that abu bakra's hadith regarding the prohibition of women as leaders is unacceptable? this is the first time i heard that a hadith from sahih bukhari is unacceptable.

    5) And off course, can women be appointed as judges?

    can somebody give me answers with evidence in English. please avoid crooked analogies, figurative language, far-fetched interpretations and arguments from ignorance. Islam is complete so i want to know it how it was revealed.
  4. Seeking Allah's Mercy
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    Seeking Allah's Mercy Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!

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    :SMILY252::SMILY252::SMILY252:,nothing else:)............see you at your inbox:p

    another to add to the mess in my head.great:)basic point now.the hadith is to be trusted or not.for me inshallah that will settle the matter.

    @akhi arzafar good luck bro i hope you get your answers that way i'll know something too.

    @akhi ayman i honestly didn't get you this time.*good luck to me*
  5. Seeking Allah's Mercy
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    Seeking Allah's Mercy Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!

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    akhi what i meant was if he asks her to quit the job she is to quit or if he's not in favour of her job timings(if they mess with her duties at home) or he cannot always accompany her when she requires mahram,for her job.then she's to do as he asks.....or isn't is like that.

    isn't a man free from this......

    OUTSIDE the house a man is independant in all affairs a woman need a mahram.this is what i was asking.isn't this dependance on a man for HER job,which isn't even an obligation on her???

    i wasn't talking about him interfering in her official affairs and using her anthority in his favour.

    also can you provide something like this for the hadith???
    LINK
  6. revert2007
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    revert2007 Love Fishing

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    Assalamualikum.Your post really surprise me.If you say make up is ok for a women in public,please show me evidence.
    ___________________________________________________________________________________
    As far as Islamic Shari`ah is concerned, a Muslim woman is allowed to wear makeup in a moderate way in the presence of her husband, mahrams (Arabic for: relatives to whom a woman cannot marry) or women-only gatherings. A woman should be keen not to be excessive in wearing makeup or spending too much money on it.


    In his response to your question, Sheikh Muhammad Nur Abdullah, former president of the ISNA (Islamic Society of North America) and member of the Fiqh Council of North America, states,
    Wearing makeup in general is part of zeenah or beautification, which is forbidden to be shown to non-mahrams. Therefore, a woman cannot wear makeup outside her home. But in general, a Muslim woman should be modest when she goes in public.

    As for wearing makeup in her house or to beautify herself for her husband, a woman should be moderate and should not take extremes in anything. If she maintains this level of moderation, there will not be any harm in sha' Allah.

    source


    I also did so many research and all I found out is that women can wear make up infront of her husband and her mahrams.If she wears make up,she must wear niqab as it is totally forbidden for her to wear make up infront of non mahram men.



    So now you are telling me something new. :rolleyes:



    By the way I am Malaysian and I know how my country people dress up.



    Allah knows the best
    Assalamualikum
  7. Seeking Allah's Mercy
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    Seeking Allah's Mercy Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!

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    i don't kno if akhi got his answer or not i really like the explaination of how religion is life:)islam isn't like christainity limited to the walls of the church.it's how we eat,breath,deal and live.sobhnallah there ain't a better religion.Alhumdulillah that we are muslims.


    is it to say if she can avoid it she should!!right??


    akhi i'm afraid you are wrong there.when a woman wears makeup she looks attractive and outside the house in front of non mahrams we are not suppose to attract attention.now you may say we don't have anything on this issue in sunnah of the prophet:saw:but that's probably coz there wasn't this kind of makeup back then....anything that will attract nonmahram's attention is unacceptable:SMILY286:.

    but since it's not an obligation on her and if is messing with her duties at home then her continuing the job is wrong...did i get that right??



    i did that!!jazakallah khairan:)
  8. Aapa
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    Assalaam walaikum,

    Sister...women have always found a way to make themselves attractive for men throughout the ages. There has been make up forever.

    I will leave the scholars to the rules of makeup.

    Common sense: it clogs up your pores, it is so messy it stains your clothes and hijabs, it is expensive, there are so many chemicals, it is often perfumed with alchol based fats...husbands and children do not liked to be kissed when a woman wears make-up...they will wipe away your kisses in a second..natural beauty is so much prettier.

    Professional women wear very little to no-make up. Intelligent women do not need to have people concentrate on their faces...concentrate on my mind.
  9. revert2007
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    revert2007 Love Fishing

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    Assalamualikum.
    I have no choice but to agree with you on this matter in sha Allah :)

    Allah knows the best
    Assalamualikum :muslim_child:
  10. Abu Talib
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    Abu Talib Feeling low

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    So Imam Nawawi, Tahawi all didn't know this and they just narrated hadiths of Abu Bakrah or they were not more knowledgeable than you.

    Apart from you still you haven't mentioned which scholars have said this particular hadith to be void. I need to know it. Shiekh Albaani Rahimullah also classed this particular hadith sahih don't say he did a mistake.

    And did Omar Ibn Khattab (Allah be pleased with him) said not to accept Abu Bakrah's testimony?
  11. hassana elkoussi
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    hassana elkoussi Junior Member

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    No further comments on my part, since this thread is doing more harm than good, not to mention the fact that some are doing wrong both to the revered Companions of the Prophet pbuh and the scholars of the ummah as well. I just highlighted what i think was overlooked by some of us. May Allah forgive us all. Ameen

    P.S. Jazak Allah khairan brother Majzoob for the video " Intellectual humility."
  12. Aapa
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    Assalaam walaikum,

    Brother this thread is doing good. I am very surprised. First and foremost if we have sinned we need to ask for the forgiveness of Allah. Insha'Allah, that is our first priority.

    We are all here to learn. I discovered much about Islamic law. My eyes hurt from reading all day. The Hanafi school agrees women can be judges but can not preside over capital punishment cases. Some scholars say no and some are inbetween.

    I wrote earlier gaining knowledge is not supposed to be easy. As we gain we do go through growing pains. We have to let go of prior knowledge or build upon it.

    There has been no intentional slander. Insha'Allah the veracity of the hadiths will be cleared up. We need to be patient and let others respond. We could open a new thread and devote it to this issue exculsively.

    The members of this forum were mature. We had the sensitive issue of sexism arise. We were able to survive. All in all this has been a powerful thread. Let us appreciate the diversity of thought and the ability to yield to absoulte knowledge.
  13. kayleigh
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    kayleigh Junior Member

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    *hug* Don't feel discouraged. I think real Islam offers women the best kind of freedom and equality. Unfortunately, that is not reality today. Sometimes I think women were better off and less oppressed when Muhammad (pbuh) was still alive and sometimes I wish I could experience that for one day, just to see how wonderful it would have been. Instead, women are oppressed by Muslims and non-Muslims alike. I'm not sure if that will ever change. Muslims now are nothing compared to Muhammad and his companions. I guess I'll just have to keep dreaming...

    For now, I think it is best to focus on what YOU believe in and to pray. :)
  14. Aapa
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    Assalaam walaikum,

    In my peregrinations today I discovered it is not oppression. ( Can't believe I am writing this but it is the truth ). Muslim men, and it is the history of Islam, are very protective of women. They shield women from unnecessary burdens. Islam is firm in its stance on family. The role of wife/mother is more important in the functioning of the family, as it is the backbone of society, than a woman seeking employment. That is secondary. Thus, it is not that Islam oppresses women, it is the role of women is cleary defined. What many of us have been raised to view as oppression is not so. There is no oppression in being at home. It is the preferred position. In some sense they must view women like me crazy.

    Thus, in the tradition of Islam one protective measure is to prevent women from being exposed to haram. The veil is one obvious measure. Although, women can serve in the courts, they bring upon themselves experiences which may hurt them. Islam reveres the gentle nature of women. It is simply another way of protecting the flowers of Islam.

    Now, you, my dear brothers and sisters know I did a lot of reading today.
  15. BrotherInIslam7
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    BrotherInIslam7 La Illaha Illa Allah Staff Member

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    :salam2:

    Freedom in modern times used to support or justify numerous opinions or thoughts. Perhaps if you are more clear what exactly bothers you, you can get a better response.

    If it the number of threads where you read 'the women can't do this' or 'the women are obligated to do that', then I can understand why you feel that way. There are also plenty of 'restriction(s)' for the male as well which are usually not discussed often here.

    The primary reason is because critics of Islam usually focus their energy on their perceived 'weird & outdated' practices (most of it is either exaggerated or just plain falsehood) that muslim men supposedly force on women. As a result, it catches the attention of many of the members on this webforum. Therefore, these topics are the ones that rouse more attention & posts than other topics. The chances of you reading/watching about prohibition of men in pursuing a career as a gynecologist in the media is remote. Nor is it likely to be discussed here. In addition, some muslim men might not pay too much attention to what is obligatory or prohibited exclusively on them. And this is a problem.

    The role of the women is different in Islam than in western or other non-Islamic cultures. It is quite possible that this might make some people appreciate some rights/responsibility of the women, while some other might think it is 'outdated/backward/sexist'. However, we as muslims should remember that Allah Almighty in His infinite Mercy and Wisdom wouldn't legislate something that would unfair or deprive us of some essential or something good.

    Our religion is perfect and comprehensive. There is no need for new interpretations of sacred texts or a major reform movement to adapt the religion to new circumstances. what our religion legislates remains applicable till the end of time. All we need to do to remain successful in this life and the hereafter is to hold on tight to the 2 things that Prophet SallAllahu Alleihi Wa Sallam left us with : the Quran and the Authentic Sunnah of our beloved Prophet SallAllahu Alleihi Wa Sallam. We need to look at our pious predecessors who were unfailing in adherence to both mentioned and keep them as source of reference and motivation.

    Most of us currently on this board have not gained sufficient knowledge to pass judgements or form opinions on Islamic jurisprudence. Therefore, we should make use of the great service of our righteous scholars (May Allah have mercy on them all) and read what they have to say & accept what is accepted by the majority of them. At the same time, we need to upgrade our knowledge and learn as much as we can about various sciences in Islam. It will only increase the appreciation of the work that our scholars carry out and remove doubts and other misconceptions such as that they follow their whims or base rulings from their personal opinions solely.
  16. kayleigh
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    You can still oppress someone and have good intentions. But... just wondering - do you think it is oppressive to force someone to fit into a gender role they aren't comfortable with? You have a lot of insight so I'm honestly curious to hear your answer.
  17. a_stranger
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    :salam2:sister

    Thank you sister for your readings: I like to add that Allah sobhanahu wa taala created us with natural needs and emotions which can`t be satisfied without a stable quiet families .....nowadays people are missing those great values of warm family we enjoied at our youth . We as muslems should clearify our intentions and be sincere .....what pleases Allah sobhanahu wa taala is a stable humanity were people live with peace harmony ......we (women) don`t need to fight to be equal to men (this is the westren attitude) ....we (muslem women) need to understand our role in this life as Allah sobhanahu wa taala created us .....This will make a better world in the same time make us more pure and happy.

    33:33 (Asad) And abide quietly in your homes, and do not flaunt your charms as they used to flaunt them in the old days of pagan ignorance; and be constant in prayer, and render the purifying dues, and pay heed unto God and His Apostle: for God only wants to remove from you all that might be loathsome, O you members of the [Prophet’s] household, and to purify you to utmost purity.

    33:34 (Asad) And bear in mind all that is recited in your homes of God’s messages and [His] wisdom: for God is unfathomable [in His wisdom], all-aware. -

    Translation of the meanings of Quran
  18. ~niyqaabiy~
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    :salam2:

    :bismillah:

    Ok. I haven't finished reading the whole thread but "Men & women were NOT CREATED TO BE EQUAL!!!"...they are CREATED TO COMPLIMENT ONE ANOTHER.

    We were never create to compete with each other. ONLY the west has brainwashed us to be so.

    I am a Muslimah and proud to say that I am not an equal to my male counter part but I have strength that man have the weaknesses.
  19. Seeking Allah's Mercy
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    excatly the scholars will say what you did but they will back it up with referances.recently my sister asked me about beautification and all and i did a lil research.all the hadith which forbade women to do stuff (like raised hair bun like camels, long nails,plucking eye brow,perfume,thin clothes)were the kind of things that will attract ppl's attention to her.so makeup sure does.and to add all that you said to it*thumbs up*then it's really not worth considering:)

    @red what is natural and what ALLAH made is all that we need ppl to concerntrate on coz that will show their real honest opinion about us....umm that's what i think:)

    dear sister i'm really sorry to know that you should hold such opinion.if it is because of the kind of men that surround you then SHAME ON THEM!!

    yes we are given the best kind of equality and freedom.i'm so very happy to kno someone spoke my heart in this matter.it is islam that has made our life so easy for us.the real obligation is only to deal with her family and that too in a way in which she's the Queen:)(i'm the princess btw;),mum's the Queen)complete and equal help and support form her king is expected coz they prophet:saw: set the example.we like the men are not to worry about outside affairs though we have the choice:D!!they don't have the choice of sitting at home.....

    but sister i just want to say not all men are the same.A horrible mask is painted over their true face.If my father rather take me for ice cream himself then go alone with my friends,it's not because he's doesn't want me to enjoy but he's worried.if i consider this as an opression or his lack or trust in me(which is NOT the case alhumdulillah)then his I just drained his love and care,not to mention his hardwork of shielding me....all gone and what's left between me and him:misunderstading ansd problems!!

    i've seen that every man rules small KINGDOM of his own with his family being his ppl.if we only follow some of his rulzz(which may appear oppresive)then we get him to follow all of ours everntually:D!!
    may ALLAH make your life real beautiful and your dreams to come true*hugs*

    stupid stupid me i should've have known you proivded the best answer to sister kayliegh already:)sister you put it beautifull;)mashallah i agree it's their shielding acts(for duniya and akhira)that some present as oppresion.

    since it's not an Obligation on women to work and bring home the money OR to provide these kind of services to the society(although very useful and valuable),it may disturb what is the obligation on her and it may create a problem (here and hereafter)so i guess you said the very right thing:)it's not oppression it's protection:)Alhumdulillah.


    got to agree with you there sister;)they don't have the secret powers ALLAH gave us:D!!(shhh!!don't let the brothers kno)may get jealous:p.......kidding akhis!!we are equal but different..
  20. Aapa
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    Assalaam walaikum,

    Kayleigh..let me put some thought into your question. If the tread is closed I'll start a new one.

    I have not seen my sons in a month. I have lost ten pounds. If I hit the road I can get a hug and kiss before they take off. So please make dua that I do not get a driving while Muslim moment.
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