If this was all you knew....

[JenGiove]

Brother's and Sister's of Islam,

Many many times I have seen posting about the violence and hatred that is done to Muslims from Kafir countries and their soldiers. Because of those videos and stories fuel for the hatred, anger, distrust has been fed and the ability to see each person as a possable new friend, even if they are not Muslim but show respect for Islam anyway is shattered. Eyes, ears and minds become closed when we do not make an effort to understand the sand in another's shoes.

I share this link with you and my only desire is for you to imagine that the words said on TTI were reversed. Imagine that TTI is something like TTC (Turn To Christianity) or TTJ (Turn To Judaism). Phrases like "zionist baby killers" and "sheeple" and jokes that show disrespect and convey the thought that a whole nation thinks and acts as one unit and that unit is stupid are aimed at Islam and Muslims.

While we ALL KNOW that this is the reality. that there ARE forums that do just that, how does our behavior and words, which are the same as the kafir just reversed, make us any better than they are?? How can Islam be better is the people are saying the same idea?


If this was all you knew about a religion, wouldn't you hate it too?
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/70471-us-soldier-afghanistan-becomes-talib.html

Please try and understand....

 

[revert2007]

Assalamualikum.

Dear Sister,

I know how you are feeling and I truly apologize if there are people from this forum hurt your feeling.


I know the reason why you are here-to learn the truth.


I read everything and there are things I can agree with and there things I can't.


We are all created by One God-Allah The Exalted.
Even if we are not brothers and sisters in Islam, we are still brothers and sisters in humanity.Some might not agree calling a disbeliever as a brother or a sister but that is a person's personal choice.As for me, I call everyone my brother and sister .


As a person who converted to Islam, I view everything differently. I can understand how disbelievers feel because I was in the same boat once.


To my brothers and sisters in Islam, do not forget your aim and responsibility. Allah The Exalted ordered us to convey the truth.He the Exalted did not ask us to insult others or cause pain in their heart just because they are Non Muslims or they are from certain countries.



There is nothing wrong with a country. There are many wrongs in humans. We Muslims always ask the non Muslims not to send Islam for trial just because some Muslims are bad. We ask them not to judge Islam based on what Muslims do.



Why can't the same be applied on ourselves? Do not send any country for trial or do not send any person for trial just because their leaders are bad.



Stop judging humans based on where there are from. Look into their heart. They have more beautiful heart than us. Our job is to color and beautify their heart with Imaan/faith.


I know there are many Muslims suffering yet what did most Muslim countries do? I can go further but I guess there is no point. Before we accuse others let us analyze who allowed them to control us?It takes two hands to produce the sound.


If we keep on judging others based on where there are from, do you think they will listen to us about Islam?


As my friend said, she is not the one carrying guns and bullets. So why are you judging her or why do we need to talk bad about her country? Will we be happy if someone talk bad about our country? If we have the rights to defend our country even it is full of corruptions, don't you think she has the same rights as well?


Muslims are the people with beautiful akhlak. So lets prove it.


Just stop this hatred towards other countries and focus on what you can do as Muslims and what you can do for Islam.


Allah's help will come and be patience. All our words and actions are being recorded and causing pain to any humans is not the teaching of Islam.
Follow the sunnah of the prophet pbuh and read on how he pbuh treated the disbelievers even they treated him badly.




I am a weak slave of Allah who failed in many things yet I have never give up correcting my own mistakes and my own sins. I know am no one to write this post yet I personally think it is important.



May Allah forgive me if I have said anything wrong and I will be responsible for my own words in sha Allah.


Allah knows the best.
Assalamualikum

 

[arzafar]

i dont get what you are trying to say. I mean the link you gave doesnt have anything to do with what you say in the post or maybe im missing something.

 

[JenGiove]

i dont get what you are trying to say. I mean the link you gave doesnt have anything to do with what you say in the post or maybe im missing something.

arzafar,

The link has everything to do with my message. If the only thing a person in what you would call a kafir country is "...converted to Islam and is teaching its fighters bomb-making skills" without being told that violence is prohibited such as it says in the Qur'an, then you would assume the worst about a whole group of people as well.

 

[BrotherInIslam7]

Hello Jen Giove,

I agree with a bit of your initial post. This is a site designed fore mostly to attract non muslims to learn about Islam and gain a good understanding about it core believes and teachings.

I can imagine that the politics discussed on these boards that quite often result in 'name calling' and 'evil brandishing' can turn people off this site. Or at the very least turn the viewers attention from Islam to politics/world issues involving muslims.

So I agree with you on that. It would be sensible for every member who posts on TTI to keep it at the back of his/her mind that this site is going to be frequented by non muslims who could be turned off by such posts. This would serve counter to the interests and purpose of this web forum.

Perhaps the news/politics items should be strictly reserved for the 'News' subforum. I do remember seeing some of them pop up in 'Islamic discussions' or 'TTI Lounge' which I think should be reserved for learning and understanding Islam and not discussing world issues/politics.

Thanks for your post.I appreciate your concern for this website.

 

[arzafar]

arzafar,

The link has everything to do with my message. If the only thing a person in what you would call a kafir country is "...converted to Islam and is teaching its fighters bomb-making skills" without being told that violence is prohibited such as it says in the Qur'an, then you would assume the worst about a whole group of people as well.

violence is prohibited but when under attack, it's obligatory to fight!!! Afghanistan has been under attack and occupation for 9 years. The locals have fought and are now winning.

a terrorist is a freedom fighter from the other side of the barrel.

also there is no such thing as kaafir love in islam unlike chirtsinainty where god loves all of his 'children'. Whoever loves a kaafir is himself a kaafir because kaafirs are hated by Allah, you can find that in many verses of quran. They oppose Allah's laws and His religion, how can a muslim love them! He can be neutral at best and even that indicates weakness of faith.

now combined with their kufr if kaafirs kill muslims in millions, what do you expect muslims to do.

im sorry but this has nothing to do with politics instead it's one of the basic principles of islaam. kaafir govts such as USA have killed millions of muslims directly and indirectly. i find it hard to believe how a muslim can love, vote and support such govts unless they are pretending. even the muslims residing in kaafir countries for whatever reasons must hate kaafirs in their hearts because that is the weakest faith.

please read the following
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/70219

also i find this all encompassing hippie style love very hypocritical because after all "a friend to all is a friend to none". A muslim by definition must be loyal to Allah, Islam and fellow muslims. how then can he be friends with kaafirs especially kaafirs who murder muslims daily!!!

so from quraan, sunnah and aristotelian logic, it's crystal clear that muslim must hate kaafirs and more so if the kaafirs kill muslims.

now if any kaafir is turned off by islam after reading this, it's his loss but we shouldn't misinform and sugar coat basic Islamic principles just to increase the number of converts. Moreover, instead of reading this anyone seriously interested in islam should be reading about Tawhid and prophethood.

peace

 

[JenGiove]

violence is prohibited but when under attack, it's obligatory to fight!!!

Tell me, what did I say about violence?

also there is no such thing as kaafir love in islam unlike chirtsinainty where god loves all of his 'children'. Whoever loves a kaafir is himself a kaafir because kaafirs are hated by Allah, you can find that in many verses of quran. They oppose Allah's laws and His religion, how can a muslim love them! He can be neutral at best and even that indicates weakness of faith.

How did I mention Kafir?

im sorry but this has nothing to do with politics instead it's one of the basic principles of islaam. kaafir govts such as USA have killed millions of muslims directly and indirectly. i find it hard to believe how a muslim can love, vote and support such govts unless they are pretending. even the muslims residing in kaafir countries for whatever reasons must hate kaafirs in their hearts because that is the weakest faith.

When did I speak about politics?

A muslim by definition must be loyal to Allah, Islam and fellow muslims.

Only Muslims? No one else?

 

[Maha*]

Asalamu alaikum Jen,

I do not know what happened, but I will tell you this. I love you regardless or whether you are Muslim or Non-Muslim. I love everyone because before we are either Muslim or Non-Mulsim we are all human beings.

I'll let you in on a secret though. Egyptians loooove Americans. You will not believe how well you'd be treated if you were in Egypt. I guess the main reason behind this is mainly because we find you interesting and love getting to know different cultures.

And that is exactly what the Quran says and what I try to abide by inshaa Allah. "O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another." [49:13]

This video explains much better what I'm exactly trying to say.. and I think this is exactly what you're looking for inshaa Allah. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDJVUnX0rwQ

 

[Maha*]

violence is prohibited but when under attack, it's obligatory to fight!!! Afghanistan has been under attack and occupation for 9 years. The locals have fought and are now winning.

a terrorist is a freedom fighter from the other side of the barrel.

also there is no such thing as kaafir love in islam unlike chirtsinainty where god loves all of his 'children'. Whoever loves a kaafir is himself a kaafir because kaafirs are hated by Allah, you can find that in many verses of quran. They oppose Allah's laws and His religion, how can a muslim love them! He can be neutral at best and even that indicates weakness of faith.

now combined with their kufr if kaafirs kill muslims in millions, what do you expect muslims to do.

im sorry but this has nothing to do with politics instead it's one of the basic principles of islaam. kaafir govts such as USA have killed millions of muslims directly and indirectly. i find it hard to believe how a muslim can love, vote and support such govts unless they are pretending. even the muslims residing in kaafir countries for whatever reasons must hate kaafirs in their hearts because that is the weakest faith.

please read the following
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/70219

also i find this all encompassing hippie style love very hypocritical because after all "a friend to all is a friend to none". A muslim by definition must be loyal to Allah, Islam and fellow muslims. how then can he be friends with kaafirs especially kaafirs who murder muslims daily!!!

so from quraan, sunnah and aristotelian logic, it's crystal clear that muslim must hate kaafirs and more so if the kaafirs kill muslims.

now if any kaafir is turned off by islam after reading this, it's his loss but we shouldn't misinform and sugar coat basic Islamic principles just to increase the number of converts. Moreover, instead of reading this anyone seriously interested in islam should be reading about Tawhid and prophethood.

peace

I'm sorry I don't agree with most of what you said. I am not looking for a debate, just merely stating my opinion on this matter and that is all.

Peace.

 

[JenGiove]

I do not know what happened, but I will tell you this. I love you regardless or whether you are Muslim or Non-Muslim. I love everyone because before we are either Muslim or Non-Mulsim we are all human beings.

does it not also say somewhere that in the beginning...we are all born Muslim...by lets not get into the debate of what happens as we grow...

I'll let you in on a secret though. Egyptians loooove Americans.

psssst....come here...come closer......we love you too....probably because you got lots and lots of really cool old triangles that were made before dirt...

You will not believe how well you'd be treated if you were in Egypt. I guess the main reason behind this is mainly because we find you interesting and love getting to know different cultures.

You'll love this one then. I'm not just your average white American. I'm an American Indian. No, I don't whoop.. I'm an Eastern Woodland indian. Whole different ball of wax.

[QUOTE}And that is exactly what the Quran says and what I try to abide by inshaa Allah. "O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another." [49:13][/QUOTE]

Another one I'll have to try to remember...

Along with:
"And there are, certainly, among you the people of the Scripture, (Christians and Jews), those who believe in Allah and in that which was revealed to you, and in that which was revealed to them, humbling themselves before Allah. They do not sell the Verses of Allah for a little price, for them is a reward with their Lord. Surely Allah is Swift in account" [3:199]

I've always wondered, why "THEIR Lord"? Why does the Qur'an make the distinction? Why not Allah? "...for them is a reward with Allah."

Salam Sister..now I know why Seeking Allah's Mercy counts you as one of her friends.

 

[Maha*]

psssst....come here...come closer......we love you too....probably because you got lots and lots of really cool old triangles that were made before dirt...

LOL! That made me laugh.

You'll love this one then. I'm not just your average white American. I'm an American Indian. No, I don't whoop.. I'm an Eastern Woodland indian. Whole different ball of wax.

Whoa, mashaa Allah!!

Salam Sister..now I know why Seeking Allah's Mercy counts you as one of her friends.

Thank you, sister.

 

[JenGiove]

LOL! That made me laugh.

I'm glad! it was meant to!

Whoa, mashaa Allah!!

hehehe...and this made ME laugh! lol! Please, feel free to ask anything you wish. 'The thing you don't ask may be what you need to ask.' :shake:[/QUOTE]

Thank you, sister.

awww shucks....

 

[arzafar]

I'm sorry I don't agree with most of what you said. I am not looking for a debate, just merely stating my opinion on this matter and that is all.

Peace.

that's ok.

i guess i would love Egyptians too if they showed half the love they have towards kaafir americans (and Israelis) to their neighboring Palestinians,
instead of cooperating in the Israeli blockade of gaza for 3 continuous years during which several aid convoys were blocked at the Rafah crossing.

perhaps instead of blaming Mubarak and other rulers its time to ask ourself whether we actually love kaafirs so much that we forget to address the suffering of neighboring muslims. how many Muslims could have benefited and how many lives could have been saved if the ordinary Egyptians would extend some of their love for Americans to Palestinians too.

 

[revert2007]

that's ok.

i guess i would love Egyptians too if they showed half the love they have towards kaafir americans (and Israelis) to their neighboring Palestinians,
instead of cooperating in the Israeli blockade of gaza for 3 continuous years during which several aid convoys were blocked at the Rafah crossing.

perhaps instead of blaming Mubarak and other rulers its time to ask ourself whether we actually love kaafirs so much that we forget to address the suffering of neighboring muslims. how many Muslims could have benefited and how many lives could have been saved if the ordinary Egyptians would extend some of their love for Americans to Palestinians too.

Assalamualikum
Do not generalize. My husband is Egyptian and his families are Egyptian. They have never liked what his leader is doing and none of the Egyptians like except those without faith.

My father in law was a general in the army and he contributed a lot during the war to get back Sinai. He was in the US working and collecting tons of money,yet he came back to Egypt just because of the love for this country even though he knows he will suffer a lot.
My husband and i can easily have a better life abroad yet we left everything for the sake of this country which doesn't want us.

There are still some Egyptians do not agree with the rulings we are living in yet we hv no choice..Allah's help will come..I shall wait for the time to come


So if you wanna say, you should say Egypt leader and not Egyptians.

Allah knows the best
Assalamualikum

 

[arzafar]

Tell me, what did I say about violence?



How did I mention Kafir?




When did I speak about politics?




Only Muslims? No one else?

as far as im aware you are interested in islam so you are not a kaafir as yet. id suggest you keep out of such issues because you are making incorrect statements about islam. I sincerely hope that you concentrate on the basics of Islamic faith rather than stating whether fighting is justified in a specific case or not.

also i dont think a kaafir would be loyal to Allah (swt) and muslims. it would be extremely rare.

as far as how muslims are judged by others that has to do with the media bias more than anything. many of their brightest stars have converted to islam. eg muhamamd ali and yusuf islam. they are peaceful too, so did the kaafirs praise islam? kaafirs will hate islam no matter what.

however, among them there are some who are sincere in knowing and following the truth (perhaps you are one of them) and muslims have to get the message across to them.

 

[JenGiove]

I would still like to hear your answers to my questions.

 

[arzafar]

Assalamualikum
Do not generalize. My husband is Egyptian and his families are Egyptian. They have never liked what his leader is doing and none of the Egyptians like except those without faith.

My father in law was a general in the army and he contributed a lot during the war to get back Sinai. He was in the US working and collecting tons of money,yet he came back to Egypt just because of the love for this country even though he knows he will suffer a lot.
My husband and i can easily have a better life abroad yet we left everything for the sake of this country which doesn't want us.

There are still some Egyptians do not agree with the rulings we are living in yet we hv no choice..Allah's help will come..I shall wait for the time to come


So if you wanna say, you should say Egypt leader and not Egyptians.

Allah knows the best
Assalamualikum

yes i know that but there are few of you left. obviously my post wasnt addressed to your family.

anyways one thing about generalizing is that we can only talk in generalizations. It is understood that there are always some exceptions and not point that out every time a generalization is made. However that shouldnt hide what most people are upto.

for eg here are 2 generalizations.
1. Muslims are good people
2. Muslims are bad people.

if i say 1 i dont think anyone would call me out despite the fact that many muslims nowadays are bad people. if i say 2 i think the replies to my post will go overkill.

obviously 1 is correct with exceptions and 2 is just incorrect

 

[JenGiove]

yes i know that but there are few of you left. obviously my post wasn't addressed to your family.

No, it was addressed to our sister, so please excuse us for standing beside her.

for eg here are 2 generalizations.
1. Muslims are good people
2. Muslims are bad people.

if i say 1 i dont think anyone would call me out despite the fact that many muslims nowadays are bad people. if i say 2 i think the replies to my post will go overkill.

obviously 1 is correct with exceptions and 2 is just incorrect

Let's see if the reverse is just as true...

1. American's are good people
2. American's are bad people.

You said that number 1 was correct, with exceptions and number 2 is just incorrect. How has your previous posts reflected this thinking?

 

[arzafar]

I would still like to hear your answers to my questions.

as far as my comprehension would allow me your initial point was:

people get the wrong idea of islam and muslims when they see a convert was making bombs because they arent told the other part "that violence is prohibited in islam"

i replied:

1) violence is justified in certain cases such as in Afghanistan

2) muslim shouldnt worry of what kaafirs think of them or try to please them in anyway because basic part of being muslim is to hate kaafirs (as Allah hate them). This is a basic principle that transcends all loyalties and nationalities.

your response:

some redundant questions

my explanation:

1. no matter how much the muslims try to please the kaafirs, as long as they are muslim, they will be hated, persecuted and chastised by kaafirs.

2. kaafirs have never loved islam even though over the years many notable kaafirs have reverted to islam and remained peaceful.

p.s.
1. the message in bold can also be found in the quraan so it cant be argued.
yes there are many bad muslims, but even if all muslims were good, they would still be hated simply because of being muslim. the kaafirs will keep inventing fresh excuses to hate muslims until the muslims give up their religion and follow the kaafirs.

 

[revert2007]

yes i know that but there are few of you left. obviously my post wasnt addressed to your family.

anyways one thing about generalizing is that we can only talk in generalizations. It is understood that there are always some exceptions and not point that out every time a generalization is made. However that shouldnt hide what most people are upto.

for eg here are 2 generalizations.
1. Muslims are good people
2. Muslims are bad people.

if i say 1 i dont think anyone would call me out despite the fact that many muslims nowadays are bad people. if i say 2 i think the replies to my post will go overkill.

obviously 1 is correct with exceptions and 2 is just incorrect

Assalamualikum
I know you were not talking about my family but you are talking about Egyptians who happened to be my family members.

That is the reason you cannot generalize as how the disbelievers do.When there is a Muslim did a mistake or a sin,..they say Islam is the one teaching them or they call all Muslims terrorist.


NO one is perfect..If I were to see how Muslims are..then I wouldn't have accepted Islam..but i know i do not need to see how humans are behaving.

We have to say things more specifically...we do not need to put everyone under one bundle and tag them with bad names.

Allah knows the best
Assalamualikum