confused about some information i got regarding jabal arafat

[WithAllahsPowers]

salam to all.

i was speaking to my sister about jabal arafat, and she told me that she heard allah comes down to earth on this day and he answers the people prayers at the hajj and told me how allah made jabal arafat and the angels told him people will fight and argue why did you do it then he told them i know best and then people started praying and making dua at jabal arafat and then the angels were happy and allah told them see i told you i know best and i come down to earth on this day.

now this is what she heard and im a bit confused about this.

i tried searching the internet regarding jabal arafat for details, i understand it a bit but how do i find that conversation or correct / exact words allah said about the jabal arafat and proof that he comes down to earth?

isnt it haram to say ''allah comes down to earth'? arent we meant to say we are closer to allah during this time and that time etc not allah comes down to earth or he comes to us?

i remember learning that Allah is with us spiriturally, through our hearts, inspiration, he is with us everywhere and we shouldnt think he comes down and goes up and is in the hajj at arafat time etc, he is everywhere, isnt that right, so what does my sister mean that allah will come down to earth?

arnt we meant to say allah is with us, closer to us on this day, etc.

im confused? does allah actually say i come down to earth? does he actually say these words? doesnt he send his angels to come down on the special nights or on arafat or is it actually him?

sorry for my confusion.

 

[WithAllahsPowers]

salam,

i just found this link:

http://www.missionislam.com/knowledge/whereallah.htm


i think the end part "conclusion' of this link is kind of what im asking. they say this:


Many a ayat in the Quran are used by the liars and heretics to prove their claim that Allah is everywhere. Among them are the verses pointing to Allah's closeness to His Creation to the point of being closer than the jugular vein. But how then, if one accepts that this is proof that Allah is everywhere, will one refute all the countless arguments/verses/ahadith that were presented here. Is it then that there is contradiction in the Book of Allah, the Sunnah and that all the Imams and the scholars have preached falsehood? No rather the claim that Allah is everywhere is misinterpretation to the point of being disbelief. These verses merely point to the fact that Allah is everywhere but only by His Knowledge, His Seeing, His Hearing and His Power. Only this explanation will allow one to be in compliance with all the other proofs from the Quran, the Sunnah and the Ijma of the companions.

There are numerous evidences to prove our belief, (that Allah is upon the Throne). We end this discussion with what Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal said to a Jahmi: "On the Day of Resurrection, Won't there be Paradise, Hell-fire, the Throne, and the Air?" The Jahmi replied: "Yes." Ahmad said: "Then where will our Lord be?" The Jahmi replied: "He will be everywhere and in everything as He was in this life ..." Ahmad said: "Then, according to you: that of Allah which was upon the Throne, will be upon the Throne, and that of Allah which was in Paradise, will be in Paradise, and that of Allah which was in Hell-fire, will be in Hell-fire, and that of Allah which was in the Air, will be in the Air? It was at that point that their lying about Allah, whose praise is exalted became clear." [Ar-Radd 'Ala Az-Zanadiqah].



--------------------------

but my question is not only about how allah comes down to earth, but how is he with us when he says i decend down to earth?

plus, the above link and especially the conclusion raised more questions to me about allah. especially the first paragraph. please read it and tell me if this is wrong?


i realised, since i cant find anythink about the conversation / speech of allah between him and the angels regarding jabal arafat as my sister told me, i thought i would search about how close allah is to us when he says he decends down to earth and this was the only link that i found that helped a bit but i not all of it i understand because remember i am slow.

 

[ahmed_indian]

sister,

1. Allah is above the heavens over His throne, independent of direction, place, position,space,etc. He is separate from His creation (universe) and independent of everything. when we say that Allah is everywhere, it means in His knowledge. this is the view of all scholars of sunnah.

2. in hadiths, we are told that Allah comes to the lowest heaven. He is not like us. and His coming down is not like us. there is no *how*. we can't imagine or perceive this.but there is no hadith to say that Allah comes on the earth.

3. Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: And no other day is better to Allah than the day of 'Arafah when Allah descends to the lowest heaven and boasts of the people on earth to the inhabitants of heaven (angels) and says: Look at My slaves who have corne with grown hair covered with dust to perform Hajj. They have come from all directions hoping for My mercy though they haven't seen My punishment. So there is no other day than the day of 'Arafah when the people are released abundantly from Fire.

(This Hadith is considered sound by others, and reported by Ibn Hibban).

pls ask if you have other questions.

 

[aslamjiffry]

Informative thread...... Jazakallah for all of u.............

 

[tariq353]

:salam2:

Brother first of all God coming to earth physically in human/manifest/unmanifest form is Hindu and christian philosophy.... not an islamic one.


The best way to define Allah is the way in which he defined himself..


Surah al-Ikhlas 112

1. Say, "He is Allah, [who is] One,
2. Allah, the Eternal Refuge.
3. He neither begets nor is born,
4. Nor is there to Him any equivalent."

last line states that there is nothing like him..we cant compare him with anything of this world
*Certainly he sees......... but we cnt imagine how, the moment we starts thinking of 2 eyes etc...he is not Allah.
*He listens...bt we cnt imagine how...the moment we start imagining 2 ears or giving any attribute to him ..he is not Allah.
*He talked with moses.......bt how we dnt knw and cnt imagine........


Commentry of Surah Ikhlas by Yusuf Ali
C6296. The nature of Allah is here indicated to us in a
few words, such as we can understand. The qualities of
Allah are described in numerous places elsewhere.

Here we are specially taught to avoid the pitfalls into
which men and nations have fallen at various times in
trying to understand Allah.
• The first thing we have to note is that His nature is so
sublime, so far beyond our limited conceptions, that the
best way in which we can realise Him is to feel that He is
a Personality, "He", and not a mere abstract conception
of philosophy. He is near us; He cares for us; we owe
our existence to Him.


Brother Ahmed has rightly said "The knowledge of Allah is every where"

"And He knows what is on the land and in the sea. Not a leaf falls but that He knows it." (Quran 6:59)

255. Allah – there is no deity except Him, the Ever-Living, the
Sustainer of [all] existence. Neither drowsiness overtakes
Him nor sleep. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens
and whatever is on the earth. Who is it that can intercede
with Him except by His permission? He knows what is
[presently] before them and what will be after them,
and they encompass not a thing of His knowledge except for what
He wills. His Kursy extends over the heavens and the earth,
and their preservation tires Him not. And He is the Most High,
the Most Great.'(Quran 2:255, saheeh international translation)


"Brother ur sisters said to u that she heard allah comes down to earth on this day and he answers the people prayers at the hajj ..............."

with the very little knowledge i hv ....i hv nvr evr heard of any such thing.

better u ask her to ask them (who told her) to gv sm kind of refrence.



And Allah Knows Best.........

 

[WithAllahsPowers]

salam,

thank you heaps, this part helped me to make things clear:


''when we say that Allah is everywhere, it means in His knowledge.''
by brother ahmad_Indian

so allah doesnt descend down the earth, its usually allah descends down to the lowest heaven but we are not allowed to know or imagine how he does that if its him actually or if its his knowlegedge that descends or if its his angels? is that right, well im fine with that. i better stop pondering about this now. it kind of may lead to very haram misunderstanding and confusion. so i better stop.

im still a little confused and wish i could learn more about it, but if there is a limit on the knowledge we are allowed to know on this topic then i better accept that.

if there is anymore information useful please let me know.

thanks brother and sisters.


by the way, im a sister. lol.

 

[WithAllahsPowers]

so what does this verse exactly mean:

وَلَقَدۡ خَلَقۡنَا ٱلۡإِنسَـٰنَ وَنَعۡلَمُ مَا تُوَسۡوِسُ بِهِۦ نَفۡسُهُ ۥ*!ۖ وَنَحۡنُ أَقۡرَبُ إِلَيۡهِ مِنۡ حَبۡلِ ٱلۡوَرِيدِ

Translation (50-16):

And indeed We have created man, and We know whatever thoughts his inner self develops, and We are closer to him than (his) jugular vein, [16]

is it his knowledge is closer to us then our jugular vein adn that he knows more about us and has knowledge of what we do and can see closer to how close the jugular vein to us. am i making sense or please someone tell me what im trying to think.


plus, in the quran allah mentions We, sometimes he refers to himself as i but most of the time We, i understand from shariah studies that allah refers to himself as We, because allah is great and high and has so many attributes and he is independant but because of all his powers and attributes, he is high and great and so he uses We to refer to all his attributes and powers and highness. is this right? this is not what my teacher said exactly but this is how i understood it.

so because Allah says We, refering to himself, then when he says he desceds down to the lowest heaven, does he say we or i descend down to the lowest heaven? and if he says i descend then does that mean one of his attributes eg: knowledge will descend and if he says we descend does that mean all his powers and attributes descend with him?

allah is so powerful and strong and and and, so much to say subhan allah, so when allah descends to the lowest heavens, wont it be too strong for us to handle as in so strong our hearts is not able to handle his descendance? this is what i mean, a very strong wind comes down to earth it is so hard for us to go outside for example and cope with it. its too strong to handle, and in winter, its cold and freezing, our hearts cant handle it sometimes, and in summer, the heat of the sun is too powerful for anyone to look at or go under, so the powers of allah, descending to the lowest heavens, is there a sense that we sense?

Gabriel, when the angel use to come to the prophet (saw), i heard it was very hard for him to handle i think he use to sweat and get tired or something when i find this i will let you know exactly what i mean.

is my imagination going too far and i should stop. or is it okay to enquire and learn and be suspicous or am i going too far with this topic?

please tell me so i can stop because i feel i want to know more about Allah and how close he is to us and how how close and how it works and i know there is no how's but is there any information that can PLEASE put my mind more to ease because i feel i want to learn more.

 

[IHearIslam]

Assalaamu alaykum dear sister, whatever I write are to my best knowledge, and I ask Allaah to assist me with it. ameen.......IF I make a MISTAKE please do correct me. Jazaka'Allaah khair in advance=) my replies are in bold

so what does this verse exactly mean:

وَلَقَدۡ خَلَقۡنَا ٱلۡإِنسَـٰنَ وَنَعۡلَمُ مَا تُوَسۡوِسُ بِهِۦ نَفۡسُهُ ۥ*!ۖ وَنَحۡنُ أَقۡرَبُ إِلَيۡهِ مِنۡ حَبۡلِ ٱلۡوَرِيدِ

Translation (50-16):

And indeed We have created man, and We know whatever thoughts his inner self develops, and We are closer to him than (his) jugular vein, [16]

is it his knowledge is closer to us then our jugular vein adn that he knows more about us and has knowledge of what we do and can see closer to how close the jugular vein to us. am i making sense or please someone tell me what im trying to think.

yea sister, Allaah is with us through his knowledge. He knows us more than we know ourselves. But Allaah does not manifest himself in a human body...astagfurullah.

plus, in the quran allah mentions We, sometimes he refers to himself as i but most of the time We, i understand from shariah studies that allah refers to himself as We, because allah is great and high and has so many attributes and he is independant but because of all his powers and attributes, he is high and great and so he uses We to refer to all his attributes and powers and highness. is this right? this is not what my teacher said exactly but this is how i understood it.

When Allaah refers himself as "we" we have to understand the linguastic term of that. The Arabic language is very interesting and complex...tabaraka'Allaah. but when words are used, the Ulama usually give the two different (most of the time) definitions. One is the definition is the language: how did the Arabs use such and such word way before Islam??
and the second definition is that of Ash-shariyah. According to Islam, what does the word mean?? so two question answer one word in different ways.

Now when we look at the word "we" we see plural, two or more people correct?? but for the Arabs, the "we" was sometimes used as royalty. To represent one individual who was royal, high and whatnot. So, when Allaah subhanahu wata'ala uses that word.......He is using it in the form of royalty because Allah is ONE and He is the only one who can do everything. So, in short the "we" in the Qur'an is the ROYAL we.....

so because Allah says We, refering to himself, then when he says he desceds down to the lowest heaven, does he say we or i descend down to the lowest heaven? and if he says i descend then does that mean one of his attributes eg: knowledge will descend and if he says we descend does that mean all his powers and attributes descend with him?

I dont know......

allah is so powerful and strong and and and, so much to say subhan allah, so when allah descends to the lowest heavens, wont it be too strong for us to handle as in so strong our hearts is not able to handle his descendance? this is what i mean, a very strong wind comes down to earth it is so hard for us to go outside for example and cope with it. its too strong to handle, and in winter, its cold and freezing, our hearts cant handle it sometimes, and in summer, the heat of the sun is too powerful for anyone to look at or go under, so the powers of allah, descending to the lowest heavens, is there a sense that we sense?

Gabriel, when the angel use to come to the prophet (saw), i heard it was very hard for him to handle i think he use to sweat and get tired or something when i find this i will let you know exactly what i mean.

is my imagination going too far and i should stop. or is it okay to enquire and learn and be suspicous or am i going too far with this topic?

please tell me so i can stop because i feel i want to know more about Allah and how close he is to us and how how close and how it works and i know there is no how's but is there any information that can PLEASE put my mind more to ease because i feel i want to learn more.

Allahu alim dear sister, I am afraid I cannot answer all the questions you have asked. May Allaah increase us all in knowledge and taqwa...ameen

I hope I make sense with the little I said.....if I didnt, please feel free to ask for clarification.

 

[WithAllahsPowers]

salam. *AmatuAll*

thank you so much, things are clear about the word 'We''

i understood it well from you saying:

Now when we look at the word "we" we see plural, two or more people correct?? but for the Arabs, the "we" was sometimes used as royalty. To represent one individual who was royal, high and whatnot. So, when Allaah subhanahu wata'ala uses that word.......He is using it in the form of royalty because Allah is ONE and He is the only one who can do everything. So, in short the "we" in the Qur'an is the ROYAL we.....

i remember now, i remember my teacher speaking about the royal and high etc, but i didnt understand it until you explained it well. i am slow, and you explained it in a way that i understand, so you explained it using my language lol.

thank you.

 

[tariq353]

so what does this verse exactly mean:

وَلَقَدۡ خَلَقۡنَا ٱلۡإِنسَـٰنَ وَنَعۡلَمُ مَا تُوَسۡوِسُ بِهِۦ نَفۡسُهُ ۥ*!ۖ وَنَحۡنُ أَقۡرَبُ إِلَيۡهِ مِنۡ حَبۡلِ ٱلۡوَرِيدِ

Translation (50-16):

And indeed We have created man, and We know whatever thoughts his inner self develops, and We are closer to him than (his) jugular vein, [16]

SISTER :salam2:

COMMENTRY of 50:16 BY A.Y.Ali
C4952. Allah created man, and gave him his limited
free-will. Allah knows the inmost desires and motives of
man even better than man does himself. He is nearer
to a man than the man's own jugular vein.
The jugular vein is the big trunk vein, one on each side
of the neck, which brings the blood back from the head
to the heart. The two jugular veins correspond to the
two carotid arteries which carry the blood from the
heart to the head.
As the blood-stream is the vehicle of life and
consciousness, the phrase "nearer than the jugular
vein" implies that Allah knows more truly the
innermost state of our feeling and consciousness than
does our own ego.




not only in arabic in Hindi/urdu also HUM (we) has got 2 meaning plural and the royal one..........i remember in 90's while our Prime minister Rajiv Gandhi(India) used to adress using "HUM YE KARENGE"(we will do this) i usd to wonder where r the other one's........but cm to know that it is the royal use of language, otherwise

Allah has made it clear "Say he is Allah the one and only" (Quran 112:1)


And sister u need to understand some terms are METAPHORICAL and if u keep digging into words it wont serve the purpose......for example "Prophet (saw) said offer ur salah as if u r looking at Allah and if not at least remember that Allah is watching u"....here by the term U r looking at Allah does not mean physical look , it means and emphasis ovr the sincerity with which namaaz is to be offered..

best example ovr this is in christianity..the term son of god is metaphorical one and used for all prophets and righteous persons but they jst ponder upon the verbatim meaning losing the true spirit of the term. otherwise book of bible clearly said . "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.[Bible {8:14} kjv]"

please tell me so i can stop because i feel i want to know more about Allah and how close he is to us and how how close and how it works and i know there is no how's but is there any information that can PLEASE put my mind more to ease because i feel i want to learn more.

that's why its always advisable to read some good tafseer along with translation....and read authentic books over the topic


And Allah knows best..........


SISTER........:lol:


Allah Hafiz

 

[thariq2005]

so what does this verse exactly mean:

وَلَقَدۡ خَلَقۡنَا ٱلۡإِنسَـٰنَ وَنَعۡلَمُ مَا تُوَسۡوِسُ بِهِۦ نَفۡسُهُ ۥ*!ۖ وَنَحۡنُ أَقۡرَبُ إِلَيۡهِ مِنۡ حَبۡلِ ٱلۡوَرِيدِ

Translation (50-16):

And indeed We have created man, and We know whatever thoughts his inner self develops, and We are closer to him than (his) jugular vein, [16]

is it his knowledge is closer to us then our jugular vein adn that he knows more about us and has knowledge of what we do and can see closer to how close the jugular vein to us. am i making sense or please someone tell me what im trying to think.


plus, in the quran allah mentions We, sometimes he refers to himself as i but most of the time We, i understand from shariah studies that allah refers to himself as We, because allah is great and high and has so many attributes and he is independant but because of all his powers and attributes, he is high and great and so he uses We to refer to all his attributes and powers and highness. is this right? this is not what my teacher said exactly but this is how i understood it.

so because Allah says We, refering to himself, then when he says he desceds down to the lowest heaven, does he say we or i descend down to the lowest heaven? and if he says i descend then does that mean one of his attributes eg: knowledge will descend and if he says we descend does that mean all his powers and attributes descend with him?

allah is so powerful and strong and and and, so much to say subhan allah, so when allah descends to the lowest heavens, wont it be too strong for us to handle as in so strong our hearts is not able to handle his descendance? this is what i mean, a very strong wind comes down to earth it is so hard for us to go outside for example and cope with it. its too strong to handle, and in winter, its cold and freezing, our hearts cant handle it sometimes, and in summer, the heat of the sun is too powerful for anyone to look at or go under, so the powers of allah, descending to the lowest heavens, is there a sense that we sense?

Gabriel, when the angel use to come to the prophet (saw), i heard it was very hard for him to handle i think he use to sweat and get tired or something when i find this i will let you know exactly what i mean.

is my imagination going too far and i should stop. or is it okay to enquire and learn and be suspicous or am i going too far with this topic?

please tell me so i can stop because i feel i want to know more about Allah and how close he is to us and how how close and how it works and i know there is no how's but is there any information that can PLEASE put my mind more to ease because i feel i want to learn more.

Assalaamu `alaykkum. Just a few things worthy of mention
Ibn Taymiyyah rahimahullaah mentions in his `Aqeedatul Waasitiyyah "And from Eemaan in Allaah is Eemaan in what He describes Himself with in His Book, and what His Messenger Muhammad :saw2: has described Him with." and this is also like the saying of Imaam Ahmed as narrated by Ibn Battah in Al-Ibaanah Al-Kubraa: "We worship Allah with His Attributes as He described Himself … we do not exceed the Quran and Hadeeth. We say as He said, and we describe Him as He described Himself, and we do not exceed that."

And it is from the creed/methodology of Ahlus-Sunnah wal Jamaa`ah that we believe in the attributes of Allaah without Tahreef (Distorting), nor Ta'weel (interpretation), nor Ta`teel (Denial), nor Takyeef (saying How), nor Tamtheel (Likening Allaah to anything)

What it means by Tahreef is that some of innovaters would say in the ayah: "Ar-Rahmaan ascended (Istawaa) above the Throne [Sooraah 20: 5]" and instead of the word "Istawaa" they would say "Istawlaa" and they have added the letter Laam, which gives the meaning "conquered". Such is the filth of some of the innovators that they dare to add to the words of Allaah Subhaanah. This is indeed Kufr!

As for Ta'weel, then it is only allowed to interpret/explain with proof. But you would see some people who would explain the attributes of Allaah with no proof. When Allaah Subhaanah, affirms His Face, Hands etc, you would see some people trying to give explanations to it which has no basis in either the Qur'aan nor Sunnah.

Ta`teel is when people deny the attributes of Allaah, and you would see them saying, for example, that: "We deny that Allaah is All-Hearing". And obviously this would be clear-cut Kufr, so thus what the innovators would do is, they give an invalid explanation to the attributes of Allaah and then follow their interpretation, which is based on their desires.

As for Takyeef, then it means that we do not ask How, rather we believe in it and do not question it. As Allaah mentions: "and they will never encompass anything of His Knowledge, except that which He Wills" [Soorah Baqarah: 255]

And it is worthy of mention the saying of Imaam Maalik, when someone asked "How does He (Allaah) rise (over His throne)", to which Imaam Maalik rahimahullaah replied while he was soaked in sweat: "The specific details are incomprehensible, however ascending is something not unknown, having faith in it is obligatory, and questioning about it is an innovation. And I believe that you are a person of innovation."


And finally Tamtheel is when you liken Allaah to His creation, and it should be clear that there is nothing like unto Him, Subhaanahu wa T`aalaa. As he says: "There is nothing like unto Him" [Soorah Ash Shoora: 11]. Thus when we affirm that Hands, Face of Allaah etc, we do not say that His Face looks like ours, or like so and so etc, rather we affirm the words of Allaah about His Face, and we stay far away from likening it to anything.


Now coming to your questions, then let me bring you the saying of Allaah in Soorah al-Hadeed: 4 "He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days and then Istawa (rose over) the Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty). He knows what goes into the earth and what comes forth from it, what descends from the heaven and what ascends thereto. And He is with you wheresoever you may be. And Allah is the All-Seer of what you do. "

You would notice that Allaah mentions that He is above the throne and at the same time he mentions that He is with you wheresoever you are. The majority of the Salafus Saalih (Righteous Predecessors) [And it is their way we take in terms of our deen], interpreted it to mean Knowledge in this verse and that Allaah is with us through His attributes (and there are numerous verses that mentions this: "And He is with you (ma`akum) wherever you may be", and "Indeed Allaah is with (ma`a) those who have taqwaa and those who do good").

And this is not giving false interpretation, rather it is affirming what Allaah has described about Himself, since this is what the Arabic language indicates. Al-Asbahaani, a scholar who wrote a dictionary for words in the Quran, said: ma’a (with) can mean coming together physically, or in time (i.e. they were born together), or to indicate help

With saying this, it can also be said as Ibn Taymiyyah rahimahullaah mentioned Maa'iyyah (Allaah being with His creation) in its real sense. And pay attention, this is NOT like what the Soofees claim that Allaah is everywhere, or that Allaah is right next to us etc. And I want you to carefully pay attention to what Ibn Taymiyyah rahimahullaah says about this. He said: "It is said: 'The moon is with us while we are walking;' while it is in the heavens. And it is one of the smallest creatures; then, how is that the Creator, the Mighty and Sublime, can not be with the creation, while the creatures are nothing compared to Him and He is above His Heavens?!" and we see that it was common for the arabs to say "The moon is with us while we are walking, or the sun is with us etc", and this does not mean the moon is right next to them, but rather moon is high above and yet it can be used to say that it is with us. If the combination of being high and being with us be possible with a creation (the moon, sun etc), then it is more worthy to combine the two for Allaah (the Creator).

Thus we can see in the arabic language, there is no contradiction between the interpretation that it means that Allaah is with us through His attributes (knowledge, support, hearing, seeing etc.) and the interpretation that He (the Most High) is with us in the real sense. [I hope I have made myself clear]

With regards to the descent of Allaah to the lowest Heaven, then there follows the narration narrated by both Bukhaari and Muslim (Agreed upon), that the Messenger of Allaah :saw2: said: "Our Lord descends to the lowest heaven every night when the last third of the night remains, saying: ' Who is it that will call upon Me so that I can answer him. Who is it that will ask Me so that I give him? Who is it that will seek My forgiveness so that I forgive Him?"

This hadeeth is narrated in the most authentic of books (namely Bukhaari and Muslim) and was narrated from the Prophet :saw2: by approximately 28 of the Sahaabah (may Allaah be pleased with them) and Ahl al-Sunnah are unanimously agreed that it is to be accepted.

And it is from the creed of Ahlus-Sunnah that we affirm that Allaah descends to the lowest heaven without asking How, or even likening Him to the creation. Once you start picturing it in your mind, then shaytaan will create doubts in your heart, thus the safest path is to believe the words of Allaah "There is nothing like unto Him" and stay far away from imagining Him (Subhaanah) or likening Him.

Thus it is descending in a real sense, in a manner that befits His majesty and Might. So we believe that He (Subhaanah) descends and we also affirm that Allaah is above His Throne. Delving too much into how Allaah can be above the throne and also descend at the same time etc, will only lead to doubts and thus end up in Kufr. Thus it is not permissible to distort the meaning of the hadeeth by saying that what is meant is that it is His command or mercy that descends, or that one of His angels descends. This is false for several reasons:

(i) This misinterpretation goes against the apparent meaning of the hadeeth. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) attributed descent or the act of descending to Allaah, and the basic principle is that a thing is attributed to the one who does it, so if it is attributed to someone else, that is a distortion that goes against this basic principle. We know that the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is the most knowledgeable of all people about Allaah, and that he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is the most eloquent of mankind and the most truthful in what he says. There are no lies in his speech and it is impossible for him to attribute something to Allaah that is not one of His names or attributes or actions or rulings. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And if he (Muhammad) had forged a false saying concerning Us (Allaah),

45. We surely would have seized him by his right hand (or with power and might),

46. And then We certainly would have cut off his life artery (aorta)”

[al-Haaqqah 69:44-46]

Moreover the only intention of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was to guide mankind, so if he said, “Our Lord descends” and someone else says something that runs contrary to the apparent meaning of these words, such as saying that His command descends, then we say: Do you have more knowledge about Allaah than the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)? The Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “Our Lord descends” but you say His command descends. Or are you more sincere towards the ummah than he was, since he (allegedly) concealed what he was supposed to tell them and told them something different. Undoubtedly the person who tells the people one thing but means something else is not sincere towards them. Or do you think that you are more eloquent than the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)?! Undoubtedly such a misinterpretation implies that one is accusing the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) of some kind of shortcoming that a Muslim can never accept on the part of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

(ii) The descent of His command and mercy is not restricted to this part of the night, rather His command and mercy descend all the time. If it is said that what is meant is a specific command or specific mercy which does not happen all the time, the answer to that is that if we assume that this interpretation is correct, then the hadeeth indicates that where the descent of this thing ends is in the lowest heaven, so what benefit can it be to us if mercy descend to the lowest heaven without reaching us? Why would the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) even tell us about it?

(iii) The hadeeth indicates that the One Who descends says: “Who will call upon Me, that I may answer Him? Who will ask of Me, that I may give him? Who will seek My forgiveness, that I may forgive him?” No one can say that except Allaah, may He be exalted and it would be shirk to say that the angels say "Who will call upon Me, that I may answer Him?" etc.

I hope I have made myself clear. Please feel free to ask if you have any more questions.

BarakAllaahu feek
Wassalaamu `alaykkum

 

[ahmed_indian]

salam,

but we are not allowed to know or imagine how he does that if its him actually or if its his knowlegedge that descends or if its his angels? is that right, well im fine with that. i better stop pondering about this now. it kind of may lead to very haram misunderstanding and confusion. so i better stop.

,

1. we are allowed to gain Islamic info but according to Quran and sunnah.

2. ahlus sunnah wal jamaah says that Allah decends but without *how*. we dont say that like us or it is His mercy or angels.

3. this book is very very good for correct aqeedah (beliefs).

hope its clear inshallaah.

 

[WithAllahsPowers]

thank you brother thariq2005

jazakullah kheir.

i understand completly 100% and learnt heaps from all that you typed especially:


And it is from the creed of Ahlus-Sunnah that we affirm that Allaah descends to the lowest heaven without asking How, or even likening Him to the creation. Once you start picturing it in your mind, then shaytaan will create doubts in your heart, thus the safest path is to believe the words of Allaah "There is nothing like unto Him" and stay far away from imagining Him (Subhaanah) or likening Him.

Thus it is descending in a real sense, in a manner that befits His majesty and Might. So we believe that He (Subhaanah) descends and we also affirm that Allaah is above His Throne. Delving too much into how Allaah can be above the throne and also descend at the same time etc, will only lead to doubts and thus end up in Kufr. Thus it is not permissible to distort the meaning of the hadeeth by saying that what is meant is that it is His command or mercy that descends, or that one of His angels descends. This is false for several reasons:


---------------

i think i was heading the wrong way as in going too far not realising there is a limit and how is not something we should search / reasearch just believe what Allah told us and thats all.

i thought there might be a how, so i asked but now i know there was nothing mentioned of how.


thank you so much for telling me :

Once you start picturing it in your mind, then shaytaan will create doubts in your heart, thus the safest path is to believe the words of Allaah "There is nothing like unto Him" and stay far away from imagining Him (Subhaanah) or likening Him.


because i think thats what was happening to me. i didnt have doubts at all but i was so curious and wanted to know and imagin and picture and thought i was doing something good because i wanted to reasearch and find out more about allah bu the shaytan was leading me to the wrong path and a path that has limits in research and i didnt know.

i hope allah is not upset with me. i promise i didnt know it was haram what i was trying to find out. i thought there was an answer, i really did and wanted to find it out and i feel i almost fell into haram and if i didnt address this on this site, and if brother Tariq didnt give me all the details, what would have happened to me and how far would i have went.

allah protected me and put instinct in me to go on this site and address my question and allowed tariq and others to help me. Beautiful guidance.
im scared incase i did something bad. but i didnt know.

i hope everyone reads this information and understands it because i dont think im alone in what i was imagining or thinking. i really hope its clear to everyone now.

brother ahmed_indian thank you for the book / link that should provide all the information and help i need. i havent got a chance to read it and i promise i will do that tomorrow.

i only just got free to read the replys to my thread and i am very satisfied with the details everyone gave me and thank you to all.

salam.

 

[IHearIslam]

salam. *AmatuAll*

thank you so much, things are clear about the word 'We''

i understood it well from you saying:

Now when we look at the word "we" we see plural, two or more people correct?? but for the Arabs, the "we" was sometimes used as royalty. To represent one individual who was royal, high and whatnot. So, when Allaah subhanahu wata'ala uses that word.......He is using it in the form of royalty because Allah is ONE and He is the only one who can do everything. So, in short the "we" in the Qur'an is the ROYAL we.....

i remember now, i remember my teacher speaking about the royal and high etc, but i didnt understand it until you explained it well. i am slow, and you explained it in a way that i understand, so you explained it using my language lol.

thank you.

alhamdulillaah.....you're very welcome dear sister. I am glad I was of help, alhamdulillah