US demands release of diplomat in Pakistan

arzafar

Junior Member
SLAMABAD – The United States demanded the immediate release of an American arrested in the shooting deaths of two Pakistanis, saying Saturday that he is a diplomat who qualifies for immunity from prosecution and was illegally detained.

The statement from the embassy raised the stakes in what could emerge as a major dispute between Pakistan and the United States. It also showed the shaky nature of ties between the two nations, a relationship Washington believes is crucial for success in Afghanistan and against al-Qaida.

Pakistani officials did not immediately respond to requests for comment, but prosecutors said Friday they would pursue murder charges.

The killings in Lahore on Thursday added to already strong anti-U.S. sentiment in Pakistan. Islamist and nationalist commentators have portrayed the incident as an example of American brutality and called on the government — often criticized for being to beholden to Washington — to punish the man.

The embassy said the man was acting in self-defense when he shot and killed two armed men as they approached his car. It said the men wanted to rob him, something police also have said. A third Pakistani died when he was allegedly hit by an American car that rushed to the scene to help the U.S. official.

"The United States Embassy in Pakistan calls for the immediate release" of the diplomat, said the statement, adding that it regretted the loss of life.

The man, who has not been named by the U.S., was taken into custody soon after the shooting. U.S. officials were granted access to him only late Friday.

Pakistani officials have largely ignored questions over any immunity the American may have, and the U.S. statement Saturday did not address key questions, including exactly what the American's job is or whether he was legally entitled to carry a gun.

U.S. Embassy spokeswoman Courtney Beale told The Associated Press that the official was "a member of the administrative and technical staff." Separately, a senior U.S. official told AP that the man was authorized by the United States to carry a weapon, but that it was "grey area" whether he could do so in Pakistan.

The issue of American diplomats or their security details carrying weapons inside Pakistan was a hot-button subject last year among certain politicians and sections of the media, which were pushing conspiracy stories about armed U.S. spies roaming the streets, threatening ordinary Pakistanis. The Pakistani government never clearly stated who and under what circumstances foreigners were allowed to carry arms.

Allowing the American to return home without facing trial could be politically damaging for the Pakistani government, which is already weak. Earlier this month, the governing coalition nearly collapsed when a key member party threatened to join the opposition.

"This is a test case for our rulers," said Maulana Fazlur Rehman, head of the Jamiat Ulema Islam party. "A foreigner, an American cannot be allowed to shed blood this way. The matter is in the court. The facts will be revealed there."

Under widely accepted international conventions, diplomats are generally free from prosecution in the countries they work to ensure that they do not become victims of rivalry between the states. Sometimes diplomats accused of serious crimes face trial in their own country.

Western diplomats travel with armed guards in many parts of Pakistan because of the risk of militant attack. Lahore has seen frequent terrorist bombings and shootings over the last two years, though the city's small expatriate population has not been directly targeted.

The senior U.S. official said the embassy was concerned about the man's safety inside a Pakistani jail. He said the killing of the governor of Punjab province earlier this month by a police officer assigned to guard him had alarmed many in Washington.

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the case, said he understood that some Pakistanis were angry about the incident. But that he was concerned officials in the Punjab were "pandering" to those emotions instead of calming, citing a visit Friday by the province's chief minister to the home of the Pakistani killed in the car accident.

<--------->

It's unbelievable really.

This guy was most probably an agent of Xe services or some other US intel firm. The US consulate has refrained from revealing his real name. In fact they would not even reveal why he was in Pakistan or why he has travelled in and out of Pakistan 9 times over the last 2 years. Why he was roaming around in a private vehicle carrying an illegal firearm with banned ammunition on a busy road in Lahore! It just confirms what was being said in the media about the presence of blackwater, for the last 3-5 years.

Davies or whatever his real name is murdered 2 citizens, photographed them and the back up vehicle then crushed another guy as it came wrong way to get to Davies. And no none of the victims were robbers and even if they were, how could he just kill them and what about the pedestrian that was crushed by the back up vehicle. Now the US govt want him to be released! Well, if he is released, it will be the last nail in the US coffin as far as pakistan and afghanistan is concerned. Imagine if an ISI personnel killed 3 people in new york or something.
 

Abdul25

Logical Believer
i cant find a single thing on which i feel proud to call myself Pakistani. What a shame for us. in our own country we are killed like dogs and murderer will be set free in few days. you keep my word. such a @#$@#$ country.
 

arzafar

Junior Member
^^^
A country is made by its citizens :D

Anyway this just reminds us the dangers of neglecting jihad. There is only one rule in this world and that is "might is right". These civilized countries preach all these so called values but if you look at it, romans, britain, france, germany - biggest most mightiest empires ever and also the most cruel. And off course presently it is the US. In between there was Japan and russia for a while. But the point is if you are a powerful you call the shots, values or whatever. It is as simple as that! Imagine if Hitler had won. Id probably writing this in german!

But he lost and so the countries who won, formed the UN (formerly league of nations) and they kept the veto power for themselves. US, Uk, France, China, russia is the block that won the WWII. So now they decide how other countries are supposed to behave. And that's what has been happening for the last 6 decades.

As the saying goes "Kill one man and become a murderer; kill one million and become a conqueror"

But Hitler is not viewed as a conqueror, whereas Alexander is Great! that's becasue Hitler lost and Alex won!

And that's why Jihad is obligatory. Without fighting there is no victory. Without victory muslims will remain weak and will easily be crushed by the powerful. This what we see all over the muslim lands with the exception of those who are allied with the powerful countries. However, very soon they too will realize that yahood and nasara are only allies with one another, as we saw in iraq and earlier in the holy lands.
 

Abu Talib

Feeling low
Assalamu`alaykum

I just read this whole story today I felt disappointed just because he is a diplomat he is set free that's not fair. His immunity should be waived off and be tried in Pakistan it takes 2 seconds for Americans to prosecute Pakistanis on charges of Terrorism. He should be given 83 years in jail.

I am sure the people of Pakistan will not be happy if the killer is let free just like that.
 

MohammedMaksudul

May Allah Forgive us
^^^
A country is made by its citizens :D

Anyway this just reminds us the dangers of neglecting jihad. There is only one rule in this world and that is "might is right". These civilized countries preach all these so called values but if you look at it, romans, britain, france, germany - biggest most mightiest empires ever and also the most cruel. And off course presently it is the US. In between there was Japan and russia for a while. But the point is if you are a powerful you call the shots, values or whatever. It is as simple as that! Imagine if Hitler had won. Id probably writing this in german!

But he lost and so the countries who won, formed the UN (formerly league of nations) and they kept the veto power for themselves. US, Uk, France, China, russia is the block that won the WWII. So now they decide how other countries are supposed to behave. And that's what has been happening for the last 6 decades.

As the saying goes "Kill one man and become a murderer; kill one million and become a conqueror"

But Hitler is not viewed as a conqueror, whereas Alexander is Great! that's becasue Hitler lost and Alex won!

And that's why Jihad is obligatory. Without fighting there is no victory. Without victory muslims will remain weak and will easily be crushed by the powerful. This what we see all over the muslim lands with the exception of those who are allied with the powerful countries. However, very soon they too will realize that yahood and nasara are only allies with one another, as we saw in iraq and earlier in the holy lands.

:salam2:

Exactly brother exactly. But today the ummah has become coward. Hiding behind the cloak of hikmah, forgetting Al-Wala-Wal-Barah.
 

arzafar

Junior Member
Assalamu`alaykum

I just read this whole story today I felt disappointed just because he is a diplomat he is set free that's not fair. His immunity should be waived off and be tried in Pakistan it takes 2 seconds for Americans to prosecute Pakistanis on charges of Terrorism. He should be given 83 years in jail.

I am sure the people of Pakistan will not be happy if the killer is let free just like that.

the problem is he arrived in a business visa NOT a diplomatic visa. Oh and he is well versed in both urdu and pashto. He was banned in us embassy Peshawar because of similar behavior.

@ MohammedMaksudul

Abu Dawood (3462) narrated that Ibn ‘Umar said: I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: “When you engage in ‘aynah transactions (a kind of transaction intended to circumvent the prohibition on riba or usury), and you take hold of the tails of oxen and you are content with agriculture (at the time when jihad is obligatory), and you give up jihad, then Allaah will send upon you humiliation that will not be dispelled until you return to your religion, Allaah will send upon you humiliation that will not be dispelled until you return to your religion, Allaah will send upon you humiliation that will not be dispelled until you return to your religion.” Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.
 

MohammedMaksudul

May Allah Forgive us
the problem is he arrived in a business visa NOT a diplomatic visa. Oh and he is well versed in both urdu and pashto. He was banned in us embassy Peshawar because of similar behavior.

@ MohammedMaksudul

Abu Dawood (3462) narrated that Ibn ‘Umar said: I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: “When you engage in ‘aynah transactions (a kind of transaction intended to circumvent the prohibition on riba or usury), and you take hold of the tails of oxen and you are content with agriculture (at the time when jihad is obligatory), and you give up jihad, then Allaah will send upon you humiliation that will not be dispelled until you return to your religion, Allaah will send upon you humiliation that will not be dispelled until you return to your religion, Allaah will send upon you humiliation that will not be dispelled until you return to your religion.” Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

:salam2:

JazakAllahu Khair for the hadith!!
 

arzafar

Junior Member
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_pakistan

LAHORE, Pakistan – The wife of a Pakistani man shot and killed by a U.S. official tried to commit suicide by eating rat poison Sunday, explaining that she was driven to act by fears the American would be freed without trial, a doctor said.

The U.S. has demanded Pakistani authorities release the American, saying he shot and killed two armed men in self-defense when they attempted to rob him as he drove his car in the eastern city of Lahore. He was arrested on Jan. 27, and the U.S. has said he has diplomatic immunity and is being illegally detained.

The shootings have stoked anti-American sentiment in Pakistan, feelings that could be further inflamed by Shumaila Kanwal's suicide attempt, especially if she dies. Her condition was steadily deteriorating after ingesting the rat poison, said Ali Naqi, the doctor treating her in Faisalabad city.

"I do not expect any justice from this government," said Kanwal in a statement recorded by the doctor. "That is why I want to kill myself."

Kanwal also spoke to reporters after arriving at the hospital, saying "I want blood for blood."

"The way my husband was shot, his killer should be shot in the same fashion," she said.

The case puts Pakistan's government in a difficult position. The government relies on the U.S. for billions of dollars in aid but is wary of being seen as doing Washington's bidding. The U.S. is widely unpopular in Pakistan, in part because of its undeclared campaign of drone missile strikes along the northwest border with Afghanistan.

The government could face charges of being an American lackey if it hands Raymond Davis over to the United States. But refusing to do so risks harming a relationship with a vital ally.

Pakistani officials have avoided definitive statements on Davis' level of diplomatic clearance and whether he qualifies for immunity.

Federal officials have said the decision on his fate is up to courts in Punjab province, where the shootings occurred. But provincial officials have said the federal government must decide whether Davis has immunity. The two governments are controlled by rival political parties, which has further complicated the case.

Besides the two men who were shot dead, a bystander was also killed when he was struck by an American car rushing to the scene to help Davis. Police have said they want to question the Americans suspected in that death as well.

Relatives of the men who were allegedly shot by Davis have participated in several protests in Lahore, including one Thursday outside the U.S. consulate where demonstrators shouted "Hang the American killer!"

Some commentators have tried to paint the two men as innocent Pakistanis rather than thieves who were attempting to rob Davis. But the U.S. Embassy has said the men had criminal backgrounds and had robbed money and valuables at gunpoint from a Pakistani citizen in the same area minutes before the shootings.
 

Ahsen

Junior Member
One of the victims wife has committed suicide.A very sad event.

arzafar is right.It's all because we left jihad and whatever jihad we do i sfor political reasons.
 

al-fajr

...ism..schism
Staff member
^ When we have Muslims who are so willing to commit the haraam (suicide) then honestly speaking I have no idea where the problem even begins and I'm cautious of simplistic solutions.

Ofcourse its sad but it makes me more irritated than sympathetic. Why did she do something that is so strictly forbidden in the deen, did she despair over Allaah's mercy and eventual justice?

She should have taken a look at the strength of Dr. Aafia Siddique and her family, particularly Dr. Aafia's mother. Amazing woman mashasAllaah, immense strength and pateince while her daughter is not dead but literally in the jaws of the crocs and sufferring every moment.

May Allaah aid this Ummah.

Wa-salaam
 

arzafar

Junior Member
^^^ yes i agree she should have been patient. there will be a day of judgment where she and a lot of other Pakistanis/afghans/Iraqis would have had a chance to call on the Americans. in this case off course Pakistani authorities are also involved. However, i do have a lot of sympathy with her because:

1) she was newly-wed, married just 2 months ago. marriage is big thing in Pakistan and like arabs, women here are 'notorious' for their loyalty to their men (even if they mistreat them).
2) She was widowed at such a young age! Widows have a tough life. Almost impossible to get married again due to hindu influences in the society.
3) Her husband was accused of robbery when he is innocent. The Americans are lying as any kaafir/hypocrite does but the fact is that those boys were returning after a court hearing. The court case was about a feud between two parties and that's why he carried a local weapon. Honor is again a big thing for people here and accusations of robbery dont go down to well.
4) Her family has been receiving calls from an unidentified numbers telling them to forgive the American mercenary/intel agent and accept money.
5) Injustice or delayed justice so far.

dr aafia was an American citizen and so her case is different from this one. off course if the Americans were to bring Vienna convention up, dr aafia's case will also be brought up and so will be the drone attacks.
 

ShahnazZ

Striving2BeAStranger
^I actually agree. In Pakistani society, unfortunately authentic Islamic 'ilm is not as abundant as cultural beliefs are. As a result, for many young women there, their husbands become everything to them. She was clearly in anguish over losing him and I can bet you my salary that cultural norms are amongst the most important thing for her to consider. As non-Islamic practices are disgustingly abundant in that society, being a widow can potentially be the worst thing for her. In comparison, Dr. Aafia Siddiqui was an intellectual and highly educated woman as well as older than this woman. So I think a lack of maturity also factors into her actions. Plus, Aafia clearly had abundant knowledge on Islam.

As for the two men who were killed, unfortunately as crime is abundant, I wouldn't be surprised at either direction this case swings in. It is highly plausible that the two men were indeed trying to rob the diplomat but it's just as likely that he shot and killed them. However, I don't recall reading the reason he was said to have killed them. It does say that HE says that he did it in self-defense but what is the prosecutor's reasoning for the diplomat's shooting? If he did indeed do it in self-defense, then I don't believe he should be imprisoned. Self-defense is self-defense after all. IF he's telling the truth, that is.

As for the car that killed the bystander, well by all means, that's totally different. That, my friends, adds an entirely new twist to the story.
 

arzafar

Junior Member
only the American media is putting the two boys as robbers. But, even if they were criminals he could have shot them at the feet. as it is the post-mortem report clearly shows 7 bullets from behind and just 2 from the front. some people say that those two boys were spying on Davis.

But that's not the question. The question is
Why was this 'diplomat' roaming around in a private vehicle carrying an illegal firearm with banned ammunition on a busy road in Lahore. truth is that he isnt a diplomat. He is an intel agent. that is why the white house have yet even identified him. According to the US constitution, it is illegal to disclose the identity of intel officers on missions outside of america. Davis knows both urdu and pashtu. In the private car, he carried a lot of cash, camera, a gun and some high tech instrument. The camera contained photographs of a madarssa from different angles!

i dont think diplomats carry the following equipment with them.

American-Terrorist.jpg


some sections of american press have reported that this "Davis" runs M/s Hyperion Protective Consultants. But the american govt maintains that he is a diplomat. What is is his name then?

His activities in pakistan raise further questions. Why was he spying on a madrassa? did he intend to brainwash people and pay them to do suicide bombing, acting as a convert himself? or perhaps he wanted to play them against another sects? How many such agents does America have in pakistan and how much have they paid to the madarsas so far? how many other agents will be allowed by zardari and haqqani?
 

Calvin

New Member
I posted something here but deleted it because I realized that it will not be viewed 'politically correct'. So here I am with the jist of the message - There is so much bloodshed in Pakistan that this is not even a news anymore. How does it matter if someone killed one person when there are multiple suicide bombings going on every day? Atleast this way you are not being killed by another so called muslim.
 

ShahnazZ

Striving2BeAStranger
Two wrongs don't make a right.

Plain and simple, an outsider committed murder in a foreign land and he should pay the price. I'm sure if the suicide bombers weren't SUICIDE bombers they would have been imprisoned as well.

However, in this case, the focus on this issue has risen to such heights because the perpetrator is from a country that is deemed questionable. It matters because this gives the population a firm basis for their argument against the U.S.
 

sanan khan

Junior Member
In todays news i heard a murder case has been lodged. inshallah pakistani court will not let him free. pakistani want to hang him.
 

Abu Talib

Feeling low
Even I saw in news that the Pakistani Court has found him guilty of cold blood and the police issued a statement suggesting there were not robbers. But also it said the US has threatened it would end its diplomatic ties with Pakistan if they punish him.
 

arzafar

Junior Member
^^^^
That threat is pretty lame. If pakistan wants, it can starve US forces to death. Everything from booze and condoms to food and armored vehicles for allied troops goes through pakistan.
 

Abu Talib

Feeling low
There is also another version saying there is a back channel going on to release Davis in return for Aafia Siddiqui.
 
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