Arrested in Starbucks

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dianek

Junior Member
Two weeks before Yara, an American businesswoman, was arrested by Saudi Arabia's religious police for sitting with a male colleague at Starbucks, she said she strolled past the very same cafe with another businessman: Neil Bush.

Bush, President George W. Bush's younger brother and CEO of the education software company Ignite!, was in the Saudi capital, Riyadh, speaking at an economic forum hosted by King Abdullah for hundreds of influential business leaders.

Yara, who does not want her last name revealed because of safety concerns, is a managing partner at a Saudi financial company. She went to hear Bush speak, and she said she invited him later to tour her company's offices, to give him a sense of what life was really like for women living in the capital.

"I was boasting about Riyadh, telling him it doesn't deserve its bad reputation," she said. "I told him I never experienced any harassment. I'd had no trouble as a woman. It was business as usual."

But on Monday, Yara learned that she had been wrong. She was thrown in jail, strip-searched, threatened and forced to sign false confessions by the kingdom's "Mutaween" police.

"When I was arrested, it was like going through an avalanche," she said. "All of my beliefs were completely destroyed."

Yara's crime: sitting with a male business partner in the "family-only" section of the Starbucks -- the only area of the café where women and men can sit together. In Saudi Arabia, public contact between unrelated men and women is strictly prohibited.

Yara, who was born in Tripoli, Libya, to Jordanian parents, grew up in Salt Lake City. She moved to Saudi Arabia eight years ago with her husband, a prominent businessman.

The 37-year-old mother of three said she had an "all-American" upbringing in Utah and lived most of her life in the U.S. before moving to Riyadh.

She described herself as secular, and apolitical. "I am anti-political," she said. "I have never advocated for anything in my life."

She said she made a point of wearing an abaya and a headscarf, like most Saudi women, "out of cultural respect."

"I observed the rules and tried not to stand out in business settings," she said.

But on Monday, when the power failed in her company's offices, Yara and her male colleagues decided to use a nearby Starbucks, which has wireless Internet, as a temporary workspace.

She settled into a booth with a male colleague and opened her laptop. Moments later, she was arrested.

"Some men came up to us with very long beards and white dresses. They asked, 'Why are you here together?' I explained about the power being out in our office. They got very angry and told me what I was doing was a great sin," Yara recalled.

The men were from Saudi Arabia's Commission for Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice, a 10,000-strong police force charged with enforcing dress codes, sex segregation and the observance of prayer times.

Yara said they grabbed her mobile phone and pushed her into a taxi bound for Riyadh's main prison. There she was interrogated, strip-searched and forced to sign and fingerprint confessions of guilt.

Later, she was made to stand before a judge who condemned her behavior, telling her she would "burn in hell."

She said she spent hours in a filthy prison cell with dozens of other women who had been arrested by the religious police, before her husband used his political connections to secure her release.

She has since vowed to remain in Saudi Arabia and continue working, but she says she will never return to Riyadh and now travels with a bodyguard.

And her family is furious that the American Embassy hasn't done more to support her.

An embassy official said her case was being treated as "an internal Saudi matter" and would not offer further comment.

Starbucks was waiting to learn more about the facts surrounding the incident, a company spokesman said.

“Starbucks was very concerned by reports that a customer was asked to leave one of our stores and arrested,” said Brandon H. Borrman, a spokesman for the company.

“Starbucks takes pride in respecting different cultures, and as a global company with locations in 44 countries, we recognize that religious customs, social norms and laws will vary among the communities where we work,” he said.

Yara said she carries her American passport with her as a precaution. But on Monday, she said, her identification was confiscated by the religious police, who told her they didn't care about her citizenship.

She is taking medication to treat post-traumatic stress while she recovers from her ordeal at her family's home in Jeddah.

"Thank God they did not harm her more," said her husband, Hatim.

"The psychological impact is beyond description," Hatim said. "She's normally a very calm, stable woman. Now she's afraid to leave our compound."
 

dianek

Junior Member
Well, i think that is ridiculous.....they work together they are together at work in offices etc. So what is wrong with being in public working......this is why I believe that there should be a separation of religion and state.
 

Doris

Junior Member
Well, i think that is ridiculous.....they work together they are together at work in offices etc. So what is wrong with being in public working......this is why I believe that there should be a separation of religion and state.

Sister free mixing among the opposite gender is not permisible. And if you desire to gain more knowledge regarding this important issue you should do so. And as for you making a separation between state and religion this is some sort of of joke right? Because if you are not joking in what are you saying then you should start going back to the basics of our religion. Are you reading much of Marx or Voltaire or David hume who burst the secularist views in the old Europe and their thought have arrived in the brains of muslims?! and if you were joking then don't joke with things that are related to your faith. There is no such a thing in Islam separation of state and faith.Alhmadulilah saudi is from the only muslim country that does not allow men and women in public mixing together.
 
Salaam,

I don't get it, you can work with someone that is a male/female in a office setting but not in public?? How did the police know they were not couples, cousins, etc? She had a legitimate excuse. I wonder who & how they stripped searched her? How are you going to accuse someone and say they are going to "burn in hell?" In my view,the Saudi police was a little too extreme. Sometimes these things puts doubts into people about their faith. It's vital to know the line between culture and Islam.

I wonder if non-Muslims have to abide by these rules...

This reminds me of the 2002 incident when Saudi police locked the doors of a school and burned the girls inside the trapped school for not wearing their hijab! Astagfirallah. May Allah swt cure our ignorance.
 

Imad

Junior Member
Salaamoalaikoem warahmatullahi wbarakatuh,

Many people in the western world are raised to belief in separation of religion and state. This is the wrong belief, because in islam there is no separation between religion and state. Islam covers the whole live of a muslim.

Religion of islam is perfect (100%) and the state has to abide by the rules of islam. But this does not mean all the people are perfect (100%).

That's the big difference.

And also dear brothers and sisters don't believe everything. You have to be carefull.

Yes you are right no one has the right to say you will burn in hell, maybe he will burn in hell. But do you think a judge who knows islam properly will say this?

I don't think so, but like i said before people are not 100% perfect.

Wassalmoelaikoem warahmatullahi wbarakatuh
 

Sauda17

Junior Member
Salam,

I believe no one has the right to say to a fellow being that you are going to go to hell, as only Allah Subhana wa ta’ala knows.

In regards to the incident, I don’t have a right to judge her but my personal view is that you should abide by the rules of the country in which you wish to reside.
 

gazkour

Junior Member
Assalamo alikom wa rahamato Allah wa barakato

Dear brothers and sisters,

I think that incident(what the police said and did) is wrong!!

Islam is perfect and has given us boundaries for every aspect of our life..alhamdulillah for that! But I think if you want to have police doing a 'good job' islamically you should have them warning people who might be doing something wrong and not telling them they're going to Hell and arresting them!!! That's against Islam in the first place!!!

I think this kind of procedure encourages in many ways hypocrisy in society; the same hypocrisy that Jesus (alehi salam) came to 'tackle': The Jews knew very well their rules and would kill and punish anyone braking them, but at the same time they were filthy in their hearts!
That's exactly the same that is killing Islam in many ways today. Let's see the Talibans in Afghanistan, the police in Saudi, the sister that tells you off at the mosque because you're exposing your wrists while she's helping her husband to cheat the government by faking a divorce, the husband that mistreats his wife while he's very "strict" when she wears something he doesn't like, the brother with a very long beard that sells alcohol and dirty magazines in his shop, and on and on, and on.......

May Allah guide us all!!!!
 

zainsmommy

Junior Member
You have hit the nail on the head.

Let's take a look first at who posted this thread. A Dear wonderful Sister who has just converted. It is these kinds of stories, these incidents that are stirring up feelings inside of her...feelings that could very well turn her away. Though I do not speak for her and it most probably WILL NOT make her turn away...but I can tell you from my own experience, stories like this make it hard for us converts who are stuggling to find a common ground between what we've been taught all our lives, this beautiful religion of Islam we have been guided too, and conforming to this new way of life. Its hard! Really hard and we don't always understand certain things where as a born Muslim can. People tend to forget that there are EYES watching. There are people like me and the Sister who started the thread trying desperately to accept things that were never issues before Islam....when we see stuff like this, it is totally way out of our league as far as understanding, and seems incredibly harsh.

Those people who are in a position of authority should really evaluate how they go about enforcing rules. We can all agree that these rules are the law, they are here to protect not only the women, but men also, so this is not the issue here...the issue is how it is enforced. What kind of message are they sending to the new converts, to the outside world about this beautiful peaceful religion.

One can argue that we don't need to prove anything to them and why should we watch what we do or say as to not offend the outside world...that is not point I am trying to make so I hope that you all understand where I am coming from. It's little things like this that are hard for us to swallow and even harder for us to accept and give not only us, but others who are ingorant to the religion and way of life, a bad impression. Very bad impression.

Sorry if I am generalising passing judgement...it is not my intention..I just wanted to post my point of view and also to say I agree with the post above me.
 

user expired!

Junior Member
asalamuallaykum wa rahmatullah,

Peoople need to stop getting tempered and need to think before they type!

The Law of the Saudi Government is that Free mixing between non Mahram is Harram, no matter who you are and where you are from it is still Harram!

Just like here in the uk you can not smoke on the tube but you can smoke in Public, and if a break that law then i should be punished cos i broke the law!

p.s. i am not the biggest fan of the Saudi Regime! However these people broke the law, and they should have known better having been is Saudia for 8 years!
 
Salaam,

Brother Gazkour it couldn't of been said any better. Jazakallah khair.

Now i'm wondering...did the non-Muslim guy get arrested and put in jail?
 

muhsinah

Junior Member
That's why people don't like the muttawas. If they are going to be "religious" police, shouldn't they at least be fair? Just because they see a man and a woman together doesn't mean something is up. Did they ask them what they were doing? They had a perfectly acceptable excuse; they were working! Women ARE allowed to interact with men for work purposes so essentially, they've arrested her while she was innocent. THEY are now the offenders.

And forcing someone to sign a confession? Audhubillah! This really gets me mad. They should review the type of people being employed to be "religious police" because a lot of them are ignorant of the religion in the first place and are just brash, impatient and power-drunk.
 

gazkour

Junior Member
Assalamo alikom wa rahmato Allah wa barakato

Salaam,

Brother Gazkour it couldn't of been said any better. Jazakallah khair.

Now i'm wondering...did the non-Muslim guy get arrested and put in jail?

Jazakallah khair for the compliment.....but I'm a sister not a brother!! :SMILY149:

Assalamo Alikom ...:hijabi:
 

Doris

Junior Member
Bismilah,

From the marks of Yaumul Qiyamah ( The last hour ) is the when ignorance will be widespread and the death of scholars. So I advise my self and everyone else when we want to say something about Islam let's not just talk. Because of the following reasons; 1) We will be asked for every word we say, and I mean everr word. 2) Talk is cheap.

For those who don't understand the meaning of the Mutawah mistraslation is "religious police" real meanign is: orderring good stopping evil. Let's us all go back to the books and study our religion.
 

gazkour

Junior Member
Assalamo alikom wa rahmato Allah wa barakato

Bismilah,

Let's us all go back to the books and study our religion.

Sister, sorry I don't understand you, why exactly did you say that?

Assalamo alikom wa rahmato Allah wa barakato
 

abou haytam

Junior Member
salam o alikom

first of all i would like to know the source of the news. i am sure it s fox or cnn, anyway, i realy wonder why americain news bring those policy mistaks of saoudia arabia when usa police are not that clean. Ok in usa religion and stat is sparated , so polices don t make mistakes or what?????

Second of all, mistakes happened even in our prophet (pbuh) and his companion time.

I was looking for some mistakes that happen in our prophet (pbuh) time and his companion. I found this famaous story of Khalid ibn alwaleed. this '' mistakes'' if i have right to said this, cost a huge price to the ummah cuz it s used by non-muslim people to misguide muslims and others.

you can see how it s similar the way shia use the history of Khalid ben alwalid and americain media that use mistakes in saoudia arabia regime.

Did Khaalid ibn al-Waleed kill Maalik ibn Nuwayrah so that he could marry his wife?

Question:

I am asking about something that I have read on a Shi’i website where it says that Khaalid saw the wife of Maalik – who was very beautiful – and after that Maalik said to his wife: You have killed me - meaning, I will be killed because of you. al-Zamakhshari, Ibn al-Atheer, Abu’l-Fida and al-Zubaydi said that Maalik ibn Nuwayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said to his wife on the day that Khaalid ibn Waleed killed him: Have you killed me?
I am asking how true this story is.

Answer:

http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=93204&ln=eng&txt=أخطأ عمر

So next time you find fox news or cnn talking about rights in arab country, keep in your mind that they have a hiden agenda.
 

Quratulaine

Junior Member
Sister, sorry I don't understand you, why exactly did you say that?

Assalamo alikom wa rahmato Allah wa barakato

:salam2:

yes, i would also be interested in knowing what this is supposed to mean. i am a newer convert to islam....and this whole incident at starbucks thing really has me confused. is it acceptable behaviour to mingle with men? no....but what if you have to work? and why should someone be arrested and tormented and told they will "burn in hell"? i thought muslims aren't supposed to judge others.

also, if there is no compulsion in religion, then how can there be no separation of church and state? how would an islamic state deal with other religions? are they to be judged by islamic law?

:wasalam:
 

lostlilly07

striving 4 Firadous
Sister free mixing among the opposite gender is not permisible. And if you desire to gain more knowledge regarding this important issue you should do so. And as for you making a separation between state and religion this is some sort of of joke right? Because if you are not joking in what are you saying then you should start going back to the basics of our religion. Are you reading much of Marx or Voltaire or David hume who burst the secularist views in the old Europe and their thought have arrived in the brains of muslims?! and if you were joking then don't joke with things that are related to your faith. There is no such a thing in Islam separation of state and faith.Alhmadulilah saudi is from the only muslim country that does not allow men and women in public mixing together.

oooh up now lets not praise Saudia Arabia...they are a bunch of Hypocrites and whats worse is the fact all these scholars are allowing this to happen. Saudia Arabia is poor country becasue the princes are stealing...yes i said stealing money from the people. they don't allow women to vote or drive cars. come on.....these are very basic parts of Islam and they are ignoring that as well
 
how come miss dianek is always posting things like these on tti ??.....why dont u post something that goes on in the us like the rapes of women n the pedophile type of people that live there....i am greatly offended by this cause law is law...like in ur country u make those R or watever movies u call them n no1 stops u cause its ur so called *freedom of watever*....it jz makes me wonder wat religion r u really from?!.....although saudi does alot of bad things but this doesnt mean we should start discouraging them of even the good things that they do!

I WOULD KINDLY REQUEST THE ADMINS TO CLOSE THIS...PLZ WITH A CHERRY ON TOP ^.^
 
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