Arrested in Starbucks

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Shahzad

Junior Member
sister : u have got heated up. Drink some cold water. :)

if some of the muslims have made a little mistake (if they actually did), there is no reason to write succccccccccccch a biiiig!! article on it. Y u r insisting on the fact that muslims are so cruel due to this event?

Calm down. where is miraj mom or zainsmommy?
 
Wonder how many of you think Osama is a great guy!

Salaam,

I've gotten to the point where I think Osama is a fictitious character and doesn't even exist! LOL

Sister Dianek, you are a very sweet person and you have good intentions. I love the way you express yourself and I'm sure your husband appreciates you.

The point is, don't let this story be your highest concern. If you want to know Islam study the Quran & Sunnah of the Prophet (saw), don't study Muslims. :)
 

q8penpals

Junior Member
Tell me from where did read that news? was that any credible source? :D


Salam

I found the article with the notation from the Arab Free Press. I guess I don't know if that is a credible source, but we all know that Saudi is not an open country for allowing outside reporters in, so one must almost assume that it is at least a reporter from inside Saudi that reports these news items. And if it is coming from a reporter inside, and then just sent to the news wire that is reported on numerous websites and newspapers, who is to blame?

*shrug*

Lana
 

Mrmuslim

Smile you are @ TTI
Staff member
salaam alikom

Subhan Allah, our prophet peace be up on him have not left anything is bad and he warned us about it, even the way we deal with people who commiting wrong, out of ignornace.


For the the brothers or sisters who posted saying this story is not true, may be this story is not we dont know but its not like it dose not happen in Saudi Arabia, ...the Commission for Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice do more than this, most of them really do it out of ignorance, I lived in Saudi and know what happens there, the intention is good but the way is wrong, but they are powerless when it come to incidents like this one and a prince is involved. !!

from the post of Brothers and Sisters, it seems we have 2 groups one says what happened is right and the other one says what happened is extream,

Well, let think about it is it allowed Islamically for a woman to be alone with a male who is not mahraam to her even though they are in public place, No,

I am not the one who is answering its Allah and His prophet peace be up on us told us this.


Next, is the way the Islamic police approced this incident is right ? No,

Because the prophet peace be up on him thaught us even if we see the people do something wrong we dont have to expose them but to approch them in good way and advise them, and I am sure if they have approched the woman in good manner she would leave.

But the propblem is that this orgnization, have done a lot of good work in the past but at the way they approch the people is compeletly wrong, to the point people start hating them. They just try to show thier power in front of ordinary people but when it comes to some prince or people of power they cant do nothing. They can approach people in better way and advise them with softness, they push the women even though its not allowed to touch a non mahram woman, but let them do the same thing to some one wth power * a Saudi Princess, or Prince** they cant even touch a hair of them rather than stop them from doing something wrong.


They are parties in Saudia *dancing parties* in the palaces and hotels belongs to prince or people with power I dare them to go and stop it, thier intention is good but the way they apply it is wrong,


That why the prophet peace be up on him warned us about this in the story
of a woman from the tribe of Makhzoom was caught stealing. Osama Bin Zaid, who was very close and dear to the Holy Prophet, was sent to him to gain favour on her behalf to lessen the punishment for the woman upon which he
said: Are you trying to get a favour against the decree of God? Then he said:
Nations have perished before because if a wealthy person committed a crime they used to excuse him and if an ordinary person did the same, they used to punish him. I swear to God that if my daughter Fatima would have committed theft, I would have ordered her hand to be cut. (Bukhari)




ومن ذلك قصة المخزومية لما سرقت وأمر بقطع يدها عظم ذلك على قريش بمكة وقالوا من يشفع فيها عند رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم فطلبوا من أسامة بن زيد أن يتقدم إلى الرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم ليعفوا عنها ولا يقطعها فغضب عليه الصلاة والسلام عند ذلك وقال: ((أتشفع في حد من حدود الله؟ ثم خطب الناس فقال : إنما أهلك من كان قبلكم أنهم كانوا إذا سرق فيهم الشريف تركوه وإذا سرق فيهم الضعيف أقاموا عليه الحد وأيم الله لو أن فاطمة بنت محمد سرقت لقطعت يدها)).


Islam portect women's right in having business or doing business but with the condition that they follow the Islamic law, and its not only for women, Men should be applying the Islamic law in thier business when they dealing with other gender.

Our Prophet peace be up on him worked for his wife Khadijah radi Allah Anhaa before he get married to her, he managed her business.

Women can engage in business and commerce. Umar Ibn Al Khattab entrusted the supervision of administrative market affairs to Shaff'a bint Abdullah bin Abd Shams. Umar used to seek her counsel, pay due regard to her and hold her in high esteem. (Al-Isabah). In this regard the dialogue between Abu Al-Yasar and a woman who came to purchase dates from him, is also significant to show how women went about shopping (Trimithi).

But before we do and jump to conclusions that women are allowed to go out etc we need to understand how the companion and the women at the time of the prophet peace be upon him understood the Islamic teaching.

Just like men, women have to observe the general religious standards relating to personal conduct, social dealings and moral behaviour - like being truthful, fair altruistic, beneficent, righteous and well-mannered. Islam does not provide different moral codes for men and women. Even in matters of public life they, too, are expected to do their part and endure the sufferings of life as patiently as men are supposed to do. We as Muslim need to understand first what are these Islamic teaching.


According to Islamic jurisprudence a woman is competent to own property and dispose of it in any manner. The Sharia generally provides for an equitable and fair role for women in the economic life of Muslim society. Just as much as they share in the management of family affairs, they can contribute to the support of the family, although they are not legally bound to provide maintenance. A woman can share outdoor work with the man to earn a common living. Asma bint Abu Bakr is said to have narrated that when Al Zubair married her, he had no land property, nor a slave, nor anything else, except a camel for * lmgation * and a horse. She said: "I would give fodder to his horse, draw the water, patch his water skin, knead the flour. I was not good at baking and preparing bread; but I had some sincere Ansar neighbour ladies who used to help me with the baking. I used to bring, on my head, fruit kernels from the land which the Prophet (peace be upon him) had given to Al Zubair. That land was at a distance of three farsakhs (about ten miles). One day I was on my way home with a load on my head when I met the Prophet with a number of Ansar. the Prophet (peace be upon him) asked me to ride, behind him on the camel, but I felt shy of joining the company of men. The Prophet (peace be upon him) realised that I was feeling shy and, therefore, continued his journey without me. Later I came to Al Zubair and told him how I met the Prophet (peace be upon him) with a company of Ansars, and how I declined his offer when he bade the camel to kneel so that I might ride behind him. I told Al Zubair I felt shy and remembered your jealousy over your self-respect and honour. On hearing that account Al Zubar said, 'By God your carrying fruit kernels is far more distressing for me than riding the camel with the Prophet'. Later Abu Bakr sent me a servant to save me the trouble of looking after the horse and I felt as if I had been relieved of the bondage of slavery". (Bukhari

Look at us now days men and women are we following the same teaching of our prophet peace be upon him and the companions when we doing business??


For the post where it said that its ok to listen to music and to watch movies but at the same time we love God (Allah) s.w.t .

Think, if you love some one, dont we try to do everything they like, so why when we say we love Allah s.w.t and his prophet peace be up on him but we dont try to do things which please them ! When we say we love Allah s.w.t we need to turn these words in to action in our life, Yes every one commit mistake and sins but the best sinners are the one who make Tawbah (repent) to Allah s.w.t from our wrongdoings.

wa salaam alikom

** source : different websites.
 

GAZIJA

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Well, whatever. It feels like Muslims will never stand up and say a Muslim did whatever it is that they infact DID!!!!!! Like people who say 9/11 wasn't perpetuated by Muslims!!!! COME ON! It was, not good muslims, but they were muslim! Why do you refuse to allow blame to be placed on those who do wrong in the name of Islam? Wonder how many of you think Osama is a great guy!

Esselamu Aleikum
dont like to be the one going in the direction I am not supposed do, but who said that muslims had to do with 9/11? our president, secretary of state? if you have read about 9/11, than you have read, that some of the people who suposedlly been highjackers are still alive so do not push it sister. if you are born here, does not mean you have to support what is being reported?
 
Podolski:

I posted this because it upsets me that some muslim brothers and sisters are so "fanatical" about their beliefs that they turn something SO innocent into a BIG FREAKING deal! I am a revert and as a revert it is very disheartening and discouraging to think that some actually behave in such a manner. How come "level-headed" muslims don't stand up and say to these people, you are doing our faith more harm than good by perpetuating such hard line tactics for something that was obviously so innocent. Instead, so many of you just let it ride or you actually agree with what happened. So Doris or podolski.....the next time you go to the market and there is a woman there you should be arrested and stripped searched too!!!! And stripped searching of that woman was just, in my eyes, a bunch of perverse hypocrites exacting humiliation and voyeuristic behavior to tear this woman's spirit down. AND why was she the only one punished? Why was the man not? Furthermore....her husband is the only one she has to answer to and he did not question her motives for being where she was. What right does some religious NAZI's have to? The fact that moderate muslims sit back and do not fight against such obvious injustices enrages me. And YEAH, I guess maybe it makes me think......what have I done? what am I a part of? Understand as an American, I am not ready or willing to throw everything that I have known or held to be true out the window because some sheyk or religious police say it is wrong. So maybe I made a mistake, maybe I didn't.......I don't know, but this kind of fanaticism does tend to push one away.....what drew me to islam was the wonderful welcoming of those here on tti and their very moderate ideals, they portrayed of Islam what I had not seen otherwise. But I struggle with that decision every day. And I am failing miserably to live up to what each of you think a muslim should be.

YES I am a firm believer in freedom for all especially womenYES I am a firm believer in freedom for all especially women.....YES I like ROCK MUSIC VERY MUCH!!!!! YES I love concerts!!!! Yes I love to do many things that you would all judge me by. I am human.....I make mistakes.....but in the end I love God, that doesn't change because I crank up a Lincoln Park CD in my car or watch Motley Crue videos on You Tube! So, there I just don't fit in with your idea of a muslim. But I care about humanity, rights of others, I give to charity......I am the best muslim I can be right now. So don't question what my faith is!



very disheartening n discouraging eh?....how bout that part when they make R rated movies in ur country?...how bout that part in which 1 out of 3 kids has been sexually abused in ur country?....how bout that part in which the kids in ur country r more in danger of being sexually molested by their close relatives rather than a stranger?...

*you are doing our faith more harm than good*.....n u r totally doing harm to me when i read this about some1 talking bout another country while its own country is filled with hypocrites n rapists.. not to mention pedos..

hard line tactics for something so innocent?.....those people living there for 8 years n they still dont know the saudi law?.....how illiterate can they get?!...


*How come "level-headed" muslims don't stand up and say to these people*.....what happeens when u make protests against guantanomo bay?...NOTHINGGG.....our daily lives r jz engulfed in bomb blasts n suicide blasts n u want us to go out to make protests....ur governments make us fight against each other n now u want us to protest too....some1 stab me


*the next time you go to the market and there is a woman there you should be arrested and stripped searched too!!!!*....wth ...i dont know what goes on in ur country but no doesnt happen in public here n it sure aint male officers that do the searching like in ur country

*AND why was she the only one punished?*......dont know ask the saudi government ...however this was wrong i agree

*her husband is the only one she has to answer to and he did not question her motives for being where she was.*....now u have enlightened us on why the divorce rates in ur country r so high n why there r so many illegitimate relations going on after marriage in ur country....its cause the husband n wife dont care bout whos going where n why


*The fact that moderate muslims sit back and do not fight against such obvious injustices enrages me*....LOL...the fact is there r millions of mutilating bodies ur country has locked up in closets ..why dont u expose them??....destroying n raping africa and latin america n now ur trying to talk bout justice...shamee-shamee......when u talk bout justice u turn me into a ferocious bear like the one in tekken ..... ....


*YES I am a firm believer in freedom for all especially women*.....u should help ur countrys woman 1st cause the way i c it there r so many women in the us that have been raped n molested n their criminals havent been caught!
infact every 10 or so seconds a woman is raped in the us as said by DR zakir naik.


*what drew me to islam was the wonderful welcoming of those here on tti and their very moderate ideals, they portrayed of Islam what I had not seen otherwise. But I struggle with that decision every day. And I am failing miserably to live up to what each of you think a muslim should be.* .....ok however hard i am on this topic but i put those things aside n say dont judge Islam by its people judge it by its holy book



*I am the best muslim I can be right now. So don't question what my faith is!*....yes i do believe u r trying very hard to b a good muslim n i hope u carry on ameen!....on the faith thing i will say NO COMMENTS n i dont remember that thing( hearing the the us foreign policy spokesman on tv sure comes in handy sometimes...they really know how to turn a blind eye on such questions :p)

i lost it totally 2day after wat i read!!!!....we sure do need some admin to sort this out
 

dianek

Junior Member
I wasn't going to reply any longer on tti, just observe.

BUT...let me say this last thing....I am a woman in America and I walk around freely, I speak my mind, I fear no harm, have had no crimes committed against me. There is CRIME EVERYWHERE!!!! But my government doesn't go around harrassing it's CITIZENS for things such as working at a table in Starbucks. We don't have state sanctioned genocide, rape and mutilation at the hands of our government. I think what you all preach about media goes both ways. Maybe your views of America are skewed. And if it is so bad here, then why do so many people dream to come and live here?

My reason for posting this article was to show that this is what non-muslims are seeing and maybe, just maybe, muslims could start taking opportunities to correct what is going wrong so that the rest of the world could see what is the true islam.

And when I said she only needs to answer to her husband, and he didn't have an issue, it is because there is a thing called TRUST amongst partners and he trusted her and was secure in that her communication with this man was for business only.

Now excuse me while I go to Starbucks and sit next to some gentleman and carry on a conversation about the weather.........thank God I have the right to do so in my country!
 
I wasn't going to reply any longer on tti, just observe.

BUT...let me say this last thing....I am a woman in America and I walk around freely, I speak my mind, I fear no harm, have had no crimes committed against me. There is CRIME EVERYWHERE!!!! But my government doesn't go around harrassing it's CITIZENS for things such as working at a table in Starbucks. We don't have state sanctioned genocide, rape and mutilation at the hands of our government. I think what you all preach about media goes both ways. Maybe your views of America are skewed. And if it is so bad here, then why do so many people dream to come and live here?

My reason for posting this article was to show that this is what non-muslims are seeing and maybe, just maybe, muslims could start taking opportunities to correct what is going wrong so that the rest of the world could see what is the true islam.

And when I said she only needs to answer to her husband, and he didn't have an issue, it is because there is a thing called TRUST amongst partners and he trusted her and was secure in that her communication with this man was for business only.

Now excuse me while I go to Starbucks and sit next to some gentleman and carry on a conversation about the weather.........thank God I have the right to do so in my country!



i jz went berzerk on this 1 n i agree i totally lost it...i think the admins should ban me from this particular thread..now dont ban me from tti :p
 

Mabsoot

Amir
Staff member
I wasn't going to reply any longer on tti, just observe.

BUT...let me say this last thing....I am a woman in America and I walk around freely, I speak my mind, I fear no harm, have had no crimes committed against me. There is CRIME EVERYWHERE!!!! But my government doesn't go around harrassing it's CITIZENS for things such as working at a table in Starbucks. We don't have state sanctioned genocide, rape and mutilation at the hands of our government. I think what you all preach about media goes both ways. Maybe your views of America are skewed. And if it is so bad here, then why do so many people dream to come and live here?

My reason for posting this article was to show that this is what non-muslims are seeing and maybe, just maybe, muslims could start taking opportunities to correct what is going wrong so that the rest of the world could see what is the true islam.

And when I said she only needs to answer to her husband, and he didn't have an issue, it is because there is a thing called TRUST amongst partners and he trusted her and was secure in that her communication with this man was for business only.

Now excuse me while I go to Starbucks and sit next to some gentleman and carry on a conversation about the weather.........thank God I have the right to do so in my country!

Assalamu alaykum,

I wont focus on the American history of killing the native inhabitants, slavery and the oppression and lynching of black people in the United States.

Today, they phone tap people, they spy on people, they arrest and detain people without any reason.


They render people from their homes, in other countries and put them in secret prisons!!!!!


Have you seen this video???

Iraqi woman deported after trying to visit her son in America

Or this One:
Abraham Ahmad Jordanian Muslim Brother Detained and Strip Searched For Being Muslim

there is also great racial inequality (even if the media tries to portray a different image), there is great poverty (yes, a lot of people actually have problem getting enough food due to poverty).. as well as the various illegal invasions, wars and supporting mass murdering tyrants
such as giving billions of dollars of military aid to the Israelis and being silent on the crimes of those who torture, abuse and kill Muslims.

For example, Uzbekistan, where young religious men who just happened to have beards were boiled alive. Due to its strategic position and its gas resources the US was silent,( it calls Uzbekistan its partner in Peace and fighting "terrorism". infact the UK ambassador was recalled by British Government for objecting to the regime.

Anyway, obviously not all Americans are bad, and not all agree to their evil regime's practises. Same you can not think that all Muslims or that Islam is represented by a single state or person today. We need to focus on what Islam actually teaches and how the early Muslims understood it.

I see a lot of incorrect things in various countries, Muslim and non-Muslim. Obviously, those things are to do with cultural and incorrect interpretations rather than the way that proper Muslims should behave.
 

bintul islam

biz musulmanikh
I swear Podolski11 is a very funny person...good come backs, I agree. This is not E-war but I just think some newly reverted people should have a lot more respect for our faith.
 

justoneofmillion

Junior Member
I wasn't going to reply any longer on tti, just observe.

BUT...let me say this last thing....I am a woman in America and I walk around freely, I speak my mind, I fear no harm, have had no crimes committed against me. There is CRIME EVERYWHERE!!!! But my government doesn't go around harrassing it's CITIZENS for things such as working at a table in Starbucks. We don't have state sanctioned genocide, rape and mutilation at the hands of our government. I think what you all preach about media goes both ways. Maybe your views of America are skewed. And if it is so bad here, then why do so many people dream to come and live here?

My reason for posting this article was to show that this is what non-muslims are seeing and maybe, just maybe, muslims could start taking opportunities to correct what is going wrong so that the rest of the world could see what is the true islam.

And when I said she only needs to answer to her husband, and he didn't have an issue, it is because there is a thing called TRUST amongst partners and he trusted her and was secure in that her communication with this man was for business only.

Now excuse me while I go to Starbucks and sit next to some gentleman and carry on a conversation about the weather.........thank God I have the right to do so in my country!
:salam2:
Sister DIANE what do you think about this article it would be nice to hear your view do you think it is a wise move .......

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26239

be good
respectfully
jameel
 

lostlilly07

striving 4 Firadous
I swear Podolski11 is a very funny person...good come backs, I agree. This is not E-war but I just think some newly reverted people should have a lot more respect for our faith.

and this why so many new muslims convert right back to where they started because yall muslims are soooo darn rude...teach them, not slander them. help them grow, and not stomp on her back. if the admins really have a problem with this thread then delete it.
 

zainsmommy

Junior Member
Assalamu Aleikom

If I may have a few minutes of your time please.

I am not here to defend vehemently Sister Dianek, but would like to try to explain where she is coming from, her mentality. Or at least try too, after all, we are two different people. We do however, share something in common, we are both converts.

First, I really don't believe she meant to incite anger or imply that the predominate Western View of Islam is in fact correct. I think that when she posted this thread, it was a knee-jerk reaction. (though I do not speak for her)
I think that she read it and her first instinct was to post it with "see, look what these Muslims are doing over here and you want me to be one?" A little hard to understand probably from your side, but for me...I understand.

When she first joined I would read her threads and I kept getting angry. I was thinking, why is she here? If she disagrees so much with Islam and it's teachings then why even bother...just stay away. I realized that I needed to take a break from TTI because one day I responded to one of her posts and I was sooo angry. It was not right of me to act that way towards her because here was a woman...a HUMAN BEING lost and searching for answers to her questions. THAT'S ALL! . Anyhow, during my break from TTI I did not sign in but did hang around and kept reading her threads. Most were controversial and did arouse anger, even though..there were those few people who remained patient with her and she eventually converted. I was surprised to say the least and felt ashamed of how I reacted and my thoughts because now not only was she a fellow human being who deserved my respect no matter our differences, but now she was my fellow Sister in Islam. She took that step to become a Muslim and now that she is, we cannot in no way expect her to be perfect or to know all the answers, OR TO UNDERSTAND this new way of life completely .

I have to admit, most of the time...I totally relate to her. How is what you may be thinking and so I will try to explain.

Like her, I come from a Christian background and it is no secret that most Christians do not follow the teachings of the bible...if they did, then Islam wouldn't even be a question and when people decide to convert to Islam..there would be a very smooth transition. They would understand...but they don't understand and this is not the case. Why? Because they are not very good Christians(most, not all). They pick and choose what they want to follow and in Islam, that is not an option.

Anyway, when we convert...we have to erase all our old beliefs. We have to conform to a new way of life. This is extremely difficult. I am sure if for one minute you could imagine how it would be if you had to convert to Christianity. You just wouldn't get it. You wouldn't understand. You would get angry at all the little things that you find totally outrageous and ridiculous, but yet, your fellow brothers and sisters in Christianity don't see anything wrong with. Understand?

So you see, she is struggling. She is trying very hard to understand and what she is doing is what most converts do. They focus only on the negative. It is so hard to implement this new way of life into your existing life that you focus on the minute details, the horror stories, the things that really don't apply to you at this stage...you try to know everything and when you see bad things, you want to say "wait a minute...I didn't sign up for this! Why are you people allowing this to happen? I thought Islam taught forgiveness, acceptance and so on".. and what it does is, it pulls you away from Islam. When you try to voice your concerns or your opposition, you are faced with severe backlash. Other Muslims just don't want to hear it. Why? Because as a Muslim, more stronger in their Imaan than her, we just can't fathom that someone would think so negatively about this beautiful religion. We are quick to say, "if you don't like it, leave...there's the door"..when what we should do is...take a step back, gather our composure and say "ok..I don't think you understand so let me explain"..in a calm manner.

Perhaps if we try to approach those who disagree on controversial topics with patience and understanding, we can relate and get to them on the same level. This is very difficult for us. Almost as difficult as accepting certain things are for her.

I will tell you a story...not long ago I saw something about an honor killing in India. I was outraged. I yelled and yelled for like two hours...how could someone do that? What is wrong with those people? I even wrote an email to my husband that was filled with anger and poor man had nothing to do with the story..he didn't even know what I was talking about. lol. It was funny now that I think about it..and ridiculous at the same time.
Anyhow, the very next day I happened to be passing by my t.v. and there was a story unfolding of a woman who just killed her three babies. I started to cry. Only after, later in the evening did I realize something. I realized that just that day before I was outraged over a Father killing his daughter in another country and here it was happening in my own backyard. What an eye opener! How could I convict a WHOLE COUNTRY for one incident and it happened right here, with an American too?

See, we are quick to judge. Quick to say our way of life, our country, our culture, whatever it may be..is better than another person when in fact, everyone is the same. There are atrocities taking place all over the world and yes, even in our own backyards. But until we can come to this realization, we will focus only on another persons faults. We will focus only on the bad that is in another country or religion.

If we were to turn the tables, we can see from a Muslims point of view and take a look at the Christian faith. We can look at the priests being accused of child molestation. Muslims cannot for the life of them understand how Christians can stand and defend a faith that supposedly accepts pedophilia? Right? Muslims will focus on this..they will focus on all the wrong in Christianity and stand by whatever they say. They see only the wrong things...if they were to convert to Christianity, then allllll these wrong things will have to be overlooked and accepted. HOW CAN WE EXPECT THEM TO DO THIS? Can you for a minute imagine how hard it would be. Then you turn on the news and you see yet another story involving Christians and something unimaginable? And this is YOUR new way of life. Your new religion you will have to defend among your Muslim family and friends. Wouldn't you agree that this would be hard to do? Wouldn't you agree that in time, you would get discouraged? That you would want to pull away...go back to Islam because it was so much easier for you..and nothing MAJOR was wrong with it ( in your eyes) Yet, others see differently.

All the same thing. I hope I am not confusing ya'll by jumping back and forth. I don't claim to be good in writing essays lol

I am trying to make a point where...everyone will always disagree about something. It's inevitable and what we can do is to try to keep our emotions in check, try to respond to one another with patience. Especially if that someone is coming from a totally different world than we are. A totally different way of life and religion. We have to try to understand and try not to respond with hostility because it will only hurt the situation rather than help it. Until that person can come to the realization on their own, we really have to be patient.

I will tell another story..I know, I know, you all are saying "man won't this lady shut up...I've been reading for a year and a day" :D Or some of you may have stopped already for bathroom breaks lol

So yeah, my Husband called me last week and said he was so mad that day because someone at his work, a non Muslim, was asking him over and over why he prays five times a day. Why he doesn't eat pork and just went on and on. My husband said that it escalated into an argument. I was listening and when he said that...the only thing that ran through my mind is..."you shouldn't have done that." Of course I didn't say anything..I listened because had I said something, he would not have seen it from my point of view and would have thought I was defending that man. Which in no way was I. I was a little angry too...but the point is...

When you encounter someone like that, born Muslims especially (NOT ALL!!), get so angered that they will not even try to respond with reason. They immediately go on the defensive. And us on the other hand, see it as hostile... it shows us automatically that Islam is exactly what the media portrays, Muslims are exactly the hot headed, illogical people the media portrays. Why? Because the tone of the response. The response that lacked composure. The response that lacked some definitive scripture to back it up. Some comparative scripture. (Bible/Qur'an) A response that contained some of this would have been more beneficial, it would have enlightened at least ONE MORE person to the true Islam. Instead, now this man walks away with his original view. Nothing accomplished from that argument. Nothing at all. Sad really don't you think?

Now you may ask "is it really our job to enlighten EVERYONE?" "How can you expect me NOT to get angry when someone is putting down my religion?"... I am not saying don't defend it, just choose your words wisely. Make sure you are approaching a person like this with sincerity. Otherwise, things will never change. It is our duty as Muslims to speak the truth right? Not to yell and argue back and forth over who is right and who is wrong. That does nothing for Islam but prove to those who are ignorant to it's teachings that we are all just a bunch of fanatical Islamists trying to spread hatred for anyone other than Muslims.

I hope I did not offend. I hope I did not cause someone to fall asleep because it is so much..what I really wanted to do was to kind of explain the views of a convert and let you all know that even when there is controversy...we have to try and explain where both sides are coming from in a calm manner because we are dealing with people who have grown up in a completely different way.

When stories such as this come about..we need to remember that it is EVERYWHERE...not just there. We need to try to remember that things happen in EVERY RELIGION, EVERY CULTURE, and EVERY COUNTRY..and the only way it will change is if we approach things in a way as to educate instead of pushing away. We don't want to fuel someones rage and misunderstanding and confusion by responding with hostility and "well in your country ya'll do this...in your religion ya'll say that."

I love you all for the sake of Allah. I do not mean to offend or single out...I only wish to express MY view on the topic at hand and hope that those who have endured this 5 hour lecture can see the good intentions behind it.


MAN......I think I have carpal tunnel syndrome now..I need to go take some Advil. lol

PEACE OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

iislam4ever

Servant of Allah 247
There is a Tv network known as KSA2 which is broadcast directly from Saudi… …the reporters are both male/female talking together, and eye contacting. women have extremely make up on and they don’t even wear the full Islamic dress.
So I don’t get their law>>>

If they want to follow shaira they should ban this station first

Hypocrites :SMILY29:
 

iislam4ever

Servant of Allah 247
woow sis/bro u have nothing better to do in life..lol

Assalamu Aleikom

If I may have a few minutes of your time please.

I am not here to defend vehemently Sister Dianek, but would like to try to explain where she is coming from, her mentality. Or at least try too, after all, we are two different people. We do however, share something in common, we are both converts.

First, I really don't believe she meant to incite anger or imply that the predominate Western View of Islam is in fact correct. I think that when she posted this thread, it was a knee-jerk reaction. (though I do not speak for her)
I think that she read it and her first instinct was to post it with "see, look what these Muslims are doing over here and you want me to be one?" A little hard to understand probably from your side, but for me...I understand.

When she first joined I would read her threads and I kept getting angry. I was thinking, why is she here? If she disagrees so much with Islam and it's teachings then why even bother...just stay away. I realized that I needed to take a break from TTI because one day I responded to one of her posts and I was sooo angry. It was not right of me to act that way towards her because here was a woman...a HUMAN BEING lost and searching for answers to her questions. THAT'S ALL! . Anyhow, during my break from TTI I did not sign in but did hang around and kept reading her threads. Most were controversial and did arouse anger, even though..there were those few people who remained patient with her and she eventually converted. I was surprised to say the least and felt ashamed of how I reacted and my thoughts because now not only was she a fellow human being who deserved my respect no matter our differences, but now she was my fellow Sister in Islam. She took that step to become a Muslim and now that she is, we cannot in no way expect her to be perfect or to know all the answers, OR TO UNDERSTAND this new way of life completely .

I have to admit, most of the time...I totally relate to her. How is what you may be thinking and so I will try to explain.

Like her, I come from a Christian background and it is no secret that most Christians do not follow the teachings of the bible...if they did, then Islam wouldn't even be a question and when people decide to convert to Islam..there would be a very smooth transition. They would understand...but they don't understand and this is not the case. Why? Because they are not very good Christians(most, not all). They pick and choose what they want to follow and in Islam, that is not an option.

Anyway, when we convert...we have to erase all our old beliefs. We have to conform to a new way of life. This is extremely difficult. I am sure if for one minute you could imagine how it would be if you had to convert to Christianity. You just wouldn't get it. You wouldn't understand. You would get angry at all the little things that you find totally outrageous and ridiculous, but yet, your fellow brothers and sisters in Christianity don't see anything wrong with. Understand?

So you see, she is struggling. She is trying very hard to understand and what she is doing is what most converts do. They focus only on the negative. It is so hard to implement this new way of life into your existing life that you focus on the minute details, the horror stories, the things that really don't apply to you at this stage...you try to know everything and when you see bad things, you want to say "wait a minute...I didn't sign up for this! Why are you people allowing this to happen? I thought Islam taught forgiveness, acceptance and so on".. and what it does is, it pulls you away from Islam. When you try to voice your concerns or your opposition, you are faced with severe backlash. Other Muslims just don't want to hear it. Why? Because as a Muslim, more stronger in their Imaan than her, we just can't fathom that someone would think so negatively about this beautiful religion. We are quick to say, "if you don't like it, leave...there's the door"..when what we should do is...take a step back, gather our composure and say "ok..I don't think you understand so let me explain"..in a calm manner.

Perhaps if we try to approach those who disagree on controversial topics with patience and understanding, we can relate and get to them on the same level. This is very difficult for us. Almost as difficult as accepting certain things are for her.

I will tell you a story...not long ago I saw something about an honor killing in India. I was outraged. I yelled and yelled for like two hours...how could someone do that? What is wrong with those people? I even wrote an email to my husband that was filled with anger and poor man had nothing to do with the story..he didn't even know what I was talking about. lol. It was funny now that I think about it..and ridiculous at the same time.
Anyhow, the very next day I happened to be passing by my t.v. and there was a story unfolding of a woman who just killed her three babies. I started to cry. Only after, later in the evening did I realize something. I realized that just that day before I was outraged over a Father killing his daughter in another country and here it was happening in my own backyard. What an eye opener! How could I convict a WHOLE COUNTRY for one incident and it happened right here, with an American too?

See, we are quick to judge. Quick to say our way of life, our country, our culture, whatever it may be..is better than another person when in fact, everyone is the same. There are atrocities taking place all over the world and yes, even in our own backyards. But until we can come to this realization, we will focus only on another persons faults. We will focus only on the bad that is in another country or religion.

If we were to turn the tables, we can see from a Muslims point of view and take a look at the Christian faith. We can look at the priests being accused of child molestation. Muslims cannot for the life of them understand how Christians can stand and defend a faith that supposedly accepts pedophilia? Right? Muslims will focus on this..they will focus on all the wrong in Christianity and stand by whatever they say. They see only the wrong things...if they were to convert to Christianity, then allllll these wrong things will have to be overlooked and accepted. HOW CAN WE EXPECT THEM TO DO THIS? Can you for a minute imagine how hard it would be. Then you turn on the news and you see yet another story involving Christians and something unimaginable? And this is YOUR new way of life. Your new religion you will have to defend among your Muslim family and friends. Wouldn't you agree that this would be hard to do? Wouldn't you agree that in time, you would get discouraged? That you would want to pull away...go back to Islam because it was so much easier for you..and nothing MAJOR was wrong with it ( in your eyes) Yet, others see differently.

All the same thing. I hope I am not confusing ya'll by jumping back and forth. I don't claim to be good in writing essays lol

I am trying to make a point where...everyone will always disagree about something. It's inevitable and what we can do is to try to keep our emotions in check, try to respond to one another with patience. Especially if that someone is coming from a totally different world than we are. A totally different way of life and religion. We have to try to understand and try not to respond with hostility because it will only hurt the situation rather than help it. Until that person can come to the realization on their own, we really have to be patient.

I will tell another story..I know, I know, you all are saying "man won't this lady shut up...I've been reading for a year and a day" :D Or some of you may have stopped already for bathroom breaks lol

So yeah, my Husband called me last week and said he was so mad that day because someone at his work, a non Muslim, was asking him over and over why he prays five times a day. Why he doesn't eat pork and just went on and on. My husband said that it escalated into an argument. I was listening and when he said that...the only thing that ran through my mind is..."you shouldn't have done that." Of course I didn't say anything..I listened because had I said something, he would not have seen it from my point of view and would have thought I was defending that man. Which in no way was I. I was a little angry too...but the point is...

When you encounter someone like that, born Muslims especially (NOT ALL!!), get so angered that they will not even try to respond with reason. They immediately go on the defensive. And us on the other hand, see it as hostile... it shows us automatically that Islam is exactly what the media portrays, Muslims are exactly the hot headed, illogical people the media portrays. Why? Because the tone of the response. The response that lacked composure. The response that lacked some definitive scripture to back it up. Some comparative scripture. (Bible/Qur'an) A response that contained some of this would have been more beneficial, it would have enlightened at least ONE MORE person to the true Islam. Instead, now this man walks away with his original view. Nothing accomplished from that argument. Nothing at all. Sad really don't you think?

Now you may ask "is it really our job to enlighten EVERYONE?" "How can you expect me NOT to get angry when someone is putting down my religion?"... I am not saying don't defend it, just choose your words wisely. Make sure you are approaching a person like this with sincerity. Otherwise, things will never change. It is our duty as Muslims to speak the truth right? Not to yell and argue back and forth over who is right and who is wrong. That does nothing for Islam but prove to those who are ignorant to it's teachings that we are all just a bunch of fanatical Islamists trying to spread hatred for anyone other than Muslims.

I hope I did not offend. I hope I did not cause someone to fall asleep because it is so much..what I really wanted to do was to kind of explain the views of a convert and let you all know that even when there is controversy...we have to try and explain where both sides are coming from in a calm manner because we are dealing with people who have grown up in a completely different way.

When stories such as this come about..we need to remember that it is EVERYWHERE...not just there. We need to try to remember that things happen in EVERY RELIGION, EVERY CULTURE, and EVERY COUNTRY..and the only way it will change is if we approach things in a way as to educate instead of pushing away. We don't want to fuel someones rage and misunderstanding and confusion by responding with hostility and "well in your country ya'll do this...in your religion ya'll say that."

I love you all for the sake of Allah. I do not mean to offend or single out...I only wish to express MY view on the topic at hand and hope that those who have endured this 5 hour lecture can see the good intentions behind it.


MAN......I think I have carpal tunnel syndrome now..I need to go take some Advil. lol

PEACE OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

zainsmommy

Junior Member
HEY YOU!!!!!!!! lol

You know how long that took me to write? :D

I worked on that all day...I had to save it in my word so that I could go back and forth in between studying, the kids, the cooking..LOL :D

I had tooo much to say!!!!!!! (can you tell :p )

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I bet you had to take a bathroom break in between. I should have warned people huh? LOL
 

iislam4ever

Servant of Allah 247
lol mashallah your good it takes me hours just to write a page i think too much...i guess u been following up with the whole debate thing i just read it like a few mints ago. actually i just read the first two paragraphs of ur writing :SMILY27: lol



HEY YOU!!!!!!!! lol

You know how long that took me to write? :D

I worked on that all day...I had to save it in my word so that I could go back and forth in between studying, the kids, the cooking..LOL :D

I had tooo much to say!!!!!!! (can you tell :p )

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I bet you had to take a bathroom break in between. I should have warned people huh? LOL
 

zainsmommy

Junior Member
LOL...I expect that the majority will not make it through the first three paragraphs without wanting to claw their eyeballs out or slip into a self induced coma LOL...Funny too because when something is that long, I will rarely read it myself. :D

Oh well...

You know it is a sad, sad, day when your son looks at you and says something and you look at him and respond ..

"wait baby, let Mommy finish writing this paragraph"...and it's NOT MY SOCIOLOGY ESSAY..it's TTI ??!!! :tongue:
 
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