After burqa, France bans street prayers

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

The masjids are too small for the congregation. You would have to get a permit at a park.

The congregations need to find larger halls to pray in. It is about organization.

Besides, the traffic can wait. It is only a few minutes. The Frenchman can wait to get his wine for his mistress. The French have an extended lunch hour. And jumma prayers fall into the lunch hour period.

 

[septithol]

Aapa: Besides, the traffic can wait. It is only a few minutes. The Frenchman can wait to get his wine for his mistress. The French have an extended lunch hour. And jumma prayers fall into the lunch hour period.

Aapa, first of all, it is very inconvenient and expensive in large cities to have traffic blocked, even for 'only a few minutes'. Not to mention dangerous, as it prevents police, ambulances, and fire trucks from reaching their destinations. Emergency situations do not suddenly stop for the lunch hour, or prayer time and a single second, let alone 'just a few minutes' can make the difference between life and death in such situations.

Secondly, even if there was no danger, inconvenience, or expense, you do not have the right to block other people's traffic with your religious practices. If I myself am in the road, and need to do something that prevents me from moving my car along with the rest of traffic, such as calling someone on my cell phone, I do not stop in traffic and block the other cars, I pull over to the side. Even if there are no other cars in the road at the time, I pull over to the side, in case one comes while I am doing my phone thing. Doing otherwise is rude and dangerous.

Truthfully, I find your insistence on the right to block traffic, rather than moving yourself out of the road in order to pray, to be rather childish. I have seen very rude and immature people indeed in Milwaukee by a fire department downtown, who, when the fire trucks are trying to get out into the street, rather than pulling over to the side to let the fire trucks out, keep their cars on the road, thus blocking the fire trucks, and in addition, make obscene gestures at the fire trucks.

I dislike such people intensely. I myself have already gotten my car stuck in the snow a few times, and had to dig it out, or get people to help me push it out, because I pulled my car into a snow bank in order to get out of the way of an emergency vehicle. It once took over an hour to get my car out of the snow after doing this! And you complain that you do not want to take a few seconds to pull out of traffic to do your prayers?

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

As I wrote in the earlier response..the French have an extended lunch hour. They are in no hurry to get anywhere. They are the French.

What is childish is your need to constantly try and understand the world through your mindset. You can not.

Sometimes common sense flies out of the window. I do believe the Muslims are aware that they need larger facilities to pray in. They are probably in the process of collecting the funds and securing property. The weather can get nasty in France...sometimes nastier than the people.

The sky does not fall everyday, chicken little.

All those Muslims praying..and are the French in desperate need of the blessings. The French get blessings just by being around Muslims.

 

[septithol]

Aapa wrote:

As I wrote in the earlier response..the French have an extended lunch hour. They are in no hurry to get anywhere. They are the French.

First of all, your statement is racist, as it makes blanket statements about the French. I have noticed that Muslims on this forum object to people making blanket statements about Muslims, based on the behavior of only some or a few of them. Yet you do the same thing against the French?

Secondly, since you have no problem with blocking traffic, based on this blanket statement of all Frenchmen being slow at lunch time, if your house in Paris, France is on fire at lunch time, and your children are trapped in a bedroom full of fire, can I assume you would have no problem with the fire department taking an hour or two to finish their lunch, before they get in their fire trucks and come to your house to see what they can do?

Or would you prefer that they get to your house as quickly as possible to put the fire out and save your children from burning to death?

 

[septithol]

Aapa wrote: What is childish is your need to constantly try and understand the world through your mindset. You can not.

That's probably true, I most likely can't understand the entire world through my mindset, which may or may not be 'childish'.

But I might also point out that my mindset is not insisting that I block traffic, which might include emergency vehicles.

Yours is.

So as 'childish' as my private mindset might be, perhaps more childish than yours, if our thoughts could be somehow compared, my behavior regarding not blocking traffic, including emergency vehicles, is demonstrably far more polite and adult than yours.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

The mindset is simply this. When it is time to worship Allah you cease all activities. You worship Allah.

Thus the righteous do the right thing. They stop and pray. And if they need to pray on the street..well..thats ok..after-all every inch of the Earth has been made for us to pray on.

Is a man-made provision going to stop the righteous from doing the right thing.

 

[septithol]

Aapa, try to understand things from the point of view of other people. They have places to go, and may be in a hurry. In addition, emergency vehicles need to be able to move quickly, not be blocked by prayers.

Turn the situation around: suppose your house was on fire, and the fire truck could not get to it, because I belong to the 'sitting religion' and felt like sitting in the middle of the door at the fire department. Because, I think I have a right to sit, and every inch of the world is made for me to sit on. As a result, your house burns to the ground and your children burn to death. How would you feel about me, or other people belonging to that religion, that we think our right to sit is so important, that we can't take just a few seconds to move to one side and sit where we are not in the way of others?

And I'm curious as to why you want to encourage Muslims to behave so badly, and repeatedly tell them that they should not even have a small amount of courtesy for other people and get out of traffic before doing their prayers. If they behave in this rude way, it is just going to make other people think badly of Muslims. It almost makes me think that you are an agent provocateur, who wants Muslims to behave badly in order to justify the wars against them.

 

[Hatty]

:salam2:

I like your answers sister septithol. keep up the good work.

 

[septithol]

Aapa, since you will not listen to me about manners, I suggest you read this post in the forum about Islam and manners:

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=80230

Some selected bits from it that apply to this situation, of your wanting the right to block the traffic and road with prayers:

A Muslim can't be a true Muslim if he does his Ibadaat (worshiping, i.e prayers, fasts, zakat..etc)very well but neglects an important side of his worship i.e Akhlaaq. In other words, he who prays his daily prayers in mosques well, but when it comes to dealing with people in his daily life he is the worst person, cannot be considered a true Muslim. This is true of people who backbite, spreading hate and evil among people, treat those who are under his care (family, employees…etc) cruelly and lie. Yet people who are like this are still proud of themselves and think that they are guaranteed a place in Jannah because of their prayers?

Which sounds like what you propose, you talk proudly about your prayers, yet want to spread hate and evil by encouraging other Muslims to block traffic and thereby annoy and endanger other people.

The connection between Iman and manners is very strong as the Prophet peace be upon him said that faith consists of seventy branches, the least of which is the removal of a tree branch blocking the road,

Yet you want to do the opposite, rather than removing blockages in the road, you want to MAKE new blockages in the road.

You might believe this or not! But good manners are the best form of Dawah. If we ask ourselves, what if a person was walking around calling people to Islam and to worship the one true God yet he have no manners at all, will anyone follow him? Or even listen tohim? The answer must be No, for sure.

No one will be willing to follow the same way of life that such a person (above) follows. Even if he was so eloquent in his speech and no matter how nicely he described Islam as the best religion on the face of earth, his actions, speech,and beliefs are opposing hence no one will listen to him.People tend to believe the actions more than the speech and that is the nature of human as actions speak louder than words

We need to remind ourselves that Islam was spread -during its early stages- in many countries like India and the far east of Asia through the Arab Muslim merchants who were showing the best of manners -especially in trade- to people of those countries. Their honesty and actions were so admired by people of those countries that they embraced Islam.

You can't walk around preaching people to embrace the religion of honesty when you are not honest! You can't advise people about morality in Islam when you don’t follow any morals! No one will believe what you are saying because simply you are not making any sense to them!

 

[septithol]

Hatty wrote:

I like your answers sister septithol. keep up the good work.

Hatty, I am glad you like my answers, but you should perhaps not call me sister, as I am not a Muslim. However, I do not like to see Muslims (or people of any group) do things to reinforce the bad image many people have of them by being encouraged to think that they should lack the small courtesy of not blocking traffic.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Septihol...you are so concrete. It has to be all black and white. You just don't get the bigger picture do you.

You are correct at all times.

In France..and that is what the discussion was about once upon a time, the problem is simple. The Muslim population has exploded. While the Muslims seek funds to build masjids they are making do. It is a temporary problem and I am sure there are enough bright Muslim minds who are working on construction of larger masjids.

What I was writing is the Truth. It is about a society that brags about being the most intellectual and radically innovative in the history of mankind. Yet, these hypocrites can not tolerate people worshiping.

Your paranoia of all that goes wrong in the street is delusional. Common sense prevails. I do not need to state the obvious. I am not writing for kindergartners.

The solution is quite simple. Let me break it down to you on a level that you can comprehend. It is simple. The masjids in France can petition to have the streets closed for half an hour or so. The traffic can be diverted. They have smart street programs. That way if a red shinny fire truck needs to go to a house on fire they can. The police officers can do some fancy hand work and direct traffic.

You forget you are discussing an issue with a Believing woman. A chaste and God-fearing woman. You might find it amusing to remind me of manners on an Islamic forum. However, you have to understand where I am in life I do not play.

As you have written ill of me it stands to reason that I will be counting my blessings. The members and guests of this forum will make dua for me. That is a part of life that you have no understanding. You lack understanding.

Brother Hatty, what can I say. You find the words of a kufr, one who has admitted to being a kufr, to be good as she attacks the merit of a Believing woman. How do you know the intention of my heart as I make salat. How can you stand beside the kufr woman when she attacks my devotion to Allah subhana talla. She has copied and pasted words and misapplied them and you applaud her. She does not even understand those words. If she did she would have submitted to Allah.

 

[septithol]

Aapa wrote:

What I was writing is the Truth. It is about a society that brags about being the most intellectual and radically innovative in the history of mankind. Yet, these hypocrites can not tolerate people worshiping.

No, they don't want people blocking traffic. The reason for blocking traffic is irrelevent. And no, they aren't going to close the streets for half an hour every single day. Grow up and deal with it. If you want to worship, then worship. Just don't do it where it blocks others. Your right to worship ends where other people's lives and traffic begins.

Your paranoia of all that goes wrong in the street is delusional. Common sense prevails.

Common sense dictates that you do not block traffic in a large city. You claim that every inch of the world is made to pray on; why then do you insist on praying on those specific inches where the road is, rather than all the other inches only a few feet away which are NOT on the road, other than to be deliberately rude to people?

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

As I have written before and I once again I am forced to rewrite this : honey ain't nobody put you in charge of the world.

And I know the French do not want you to represent them. I must give the French some credit.

You can whine and complain and tell me how rude I am. Do you see me stopping you?

This is really an irrelevant discussion. You are not Muslim nor French.

I do not claim that every inch of this gorgeous planet is for us to worship. I am a mere humble and believing woman. It is a fact.

 

[Hatty]

Hatty wrote:

Hatty, I am glad you like my answers, but you should perhaps not call me sister, as I am not a Muslim. However, I do not like to see Muslims (or people of any group) do things to reinforce the bad image many people have of them by being encouraged to think that they should lack the small courtesy of not blocking traffic.

Well, I think it is still fine to call you a sister - sister in humanity. But I will stop if you do not like it...

 

[septithol]

Hatty wrote: Well, I think it is still fine to call you a sister - sister in humanity. But I will stop if you do not like it...

No, it's fine. I just didn't want you to call me sister under false pretenses and then get angry when you found out I am not a Muslim. I dislike lies, and try not to tell them myself, which includes correcting any mistaken impressions people might have gotten about me.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

I think this topic is dead. Can we move on.