BURDEN OF PROOF ON MUSLIMS?

[Waterdrop]

Waterdrop, a translation is the shadow of the original language, A muslim must learn arabic whether he/she is english,american or African, they at least memories a number of chapters of the quran to do salat(prayer).

More and more christian are leaving christianity and coming to Islam the right path, without any muslim knocking on their door to "save" them.

There is no compulsion for men/womenn to accept the TRUTH. But it is certainly a shame upon the human intellect when men/women are not even interested in finding out as to what is the TRUTH!

"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error.."2:256 Quran.

no offense but I don't see a lot of Christians going to Islam. I live near the largest concentration of muslims outside the middle east and if anything many Christians are going to non-denomination than islam. You keep referring to the quran as the truth and Christians disagree as we believe that the Bible is the truth. I won't argue the translation thing anymore since my point has been missed or ignored, it is pompous to think that we don't understand.

BTW those door to door people tend to be mormons and Jehovas witnesses (sp). Which claim to be Christians but are cults.

 

[island muslim]

really??? hmmm... i thought more people were coming to Islam. Guess it is not everywhere tough as I will take your word for it. @ Waterdrop

 

[TheHumbleWun]

please go back and re-read what I said. it seems like a trend that people "misread" what I wrote.

I'm not trying to convert anyone, besides I'm not the best at doing that, I like to ask questions. These questions shouldn't "threaten" you since you said it would be a waste of my time. I want to guide noone, where did you get that idea?

I'm not "threatened" at all. TRUST ME lol. I don't know where you got that from. For some reason you danced around my question. I'm still curious what are your intentions to coming to TTI?? Is there something that intrigues or lures you?

 

[Sister_X]

I've been asked the same thing about the Bible. My response? I have faith. You cannot debate, prove or disprove faith.

Faith without reason is a superstition! The quran is full of Scientic Facts that no man at the time of our prophet would have known Our prophet Mohamed (phb) was illiterate, he was not the author of the book.

Read a book called "The Bible, the Quran and Science", by Maurice Bucaille

salaam

 

[Waterdrop]

I'm not "threatened" at all. TRUST ME lol. I don't know where you got that from. For some reason you danced around my question. I'm still curious what are your intentions to coming to TTI?? Is there something that intrigues or lures you?

lets get one thing strait. I don't dance around anything. I'm answering 10 different people and can't debate nonsensicle questions. I'll make a conscience effort to give you more attention next time. I came here because I don't know any muslims and I was curious. I'm betting that's not the answer you wanted.

 

[island muslim]

who knows??? waterdrop hangs around here atleast she will know what is Islam is about. that is if she looks at the vids, read the articles and pose questions on this site.

 

[TheHumbleWun]

lets get one thing strait. I don't dance around anything. I'm answering 10 different people and can't debate nonsensicle questions. I'll make a conscience effort to give you more attention next time. I came here because I don't know any muslims and I was curious. I'm betting that's not the answer you wanted.

That was actually a beautiful answer. I just wanted to know your intentions that's all and I anticipated a reply in that line.

May you find peace and truth in your life.

------------------------------------
"If you were to trust in Allah genuinely He would provide you provision as He does for the birds which go hungry in the morning and come back full in the evening"

 

[NX01]

I agree with TheHumbleWun. WaterDrop, are you here to have an open mind to see the other side of the faith or are you trying to find how is your debate strength stands against another faith?

You also mention that the bible is the truth.

Well I have a question for you.

I KINGS 7
26. And it was an hand breadth thick, and the brim thereof was wrought like the brim of a
cup, with flowers of lilies: it contained two thousand baths..

II CHRONICLES 4
5. And the thickness of it was an handbreadth, and the brim of it like the work of the brim
of a cup, with flowers of lilies; and it received and held three thousand baths.

So, tell me which one is the truth? And if you can, tell me the reason for the other one having this error.

 

[Waterdrop]

Faith without reason is a superstition! The quran is full of Scientic Facts that no man at the time of our prophet would have known Our prophet Mohamed (phb) was illiterate, he was not the author of the book.

Read a book called "The Bible, the Quran and Science", by Maurice Bucaille

salaam

be careful about trying to mix science with religion. You might be disappointed. Science can't even prove if there is a God, can you? I believe there in God through faith. I won't be reading the hundreds of books that people on this site want me to since i'm not immortal and will not live forever. maybe i'll read one or two in my spare time.

 

[Aapa]

Salaam,

Waterdrop, you have restricted logic to a singular if then...not so...faith is more than logic...faith incudes reason which is by definition broader than logic...you have narrowed your outlook...
In order for me to be a Muslim...I know that the Engeel ( Bible ) was given to Jesus. I have to respect Jesus...I have to respect Christians ( all humans for that matter )....I am not going to engage in the corruption of anything..to you yours, to me mine....
The unnecessary pedantic arguments are useless...this is as bad as debating the number of angels on a pinhead....the arguments are circular and do not lead to an increase in faith or wisdom.

 

[Waterdrop]

Aren't you lucky then that you were born to a Christian family or in a Christian country? If you were born in India you'd be arguing just as strongly for Hinduism! Loyalty is a good thing, but loyalty to the wrong people, causes or ideas is not. You will come to God on the Day of Judgment by yourself; none of the preachers who taught you what you believe will be around you to support you in answering God's questions and neither will be your parents. It's entirely your call and the ball is in your court.



Easy! I read the bible cover to cover, in English and in Arabic and I read the Quran. The Quran clicked with my heart and mind big time; the bible didn't. The bible raises more questions than it answers and the Quran answers all questions, including those raised by the bible, so convincingly and so simply you wonder why you didn't think of it before.

When you have two viewpoints that differ so fundamentally as Islam and Christianity do, how do you tell which is right? You study both intensively. You scrutinize and analyze both thouroughly. You reflect on both hard and long. And if you believe in God, you pray to God to tell you which is right. That's what I'd humbly advise you to do. Clear you heart and mind and pray to God to guide you. Do not call God any names; not Jesus, Christ, holy ghost, Jehovah, Elohim, Buddha, Krishna, or even Allah. Just call Him God and beg Him with sincerity to guide you to the truth. If you open your heart to His reply, He will guide you. You can bet on it.

different strokes for different folks. i'm guessing your scenerio of believing what your parents do applies to many in the middle east as well? Your heart differes from mine. the Bible made sense to me through religious schools. BTW, my parents have different beliefs than I do. "ouch"

 

[Waterdrop]

Salaam,

Waterdrop, you have restricted logic to a singular if then...not so...faith is more than logic...faith incudes reason which is by definition broader than logic...you have narrowed your outlook...
In order for me to be a Muslim...I know that the Engeel ( Bible ) was given to Jesus. I have to respect Jesus...I have to respect Christians ( all humans for that matter )....I am not going to engage in the corruption of anything..to you yours, to me mine....
The unnecessary pedantic arguments are useless...this is as bad as debating the number of angels on a pinhead....the arguments are circular and do not lead to an increase in faith or wisdom.

I wasn't arguing about who's right or who's wrong. I thought my example was simple (and still do). Chances are that if you believe in islam then you don't believe what Christians believe. No double talk needed. Both sides will argue until judgement day. I believe that I am on the right path, many here believe otherwise, and that's fine. I'll still pray that God has mercy on those of different religions because I want all GOOD people to go to heaven no matter what they believe. I don't relish the fact that there will be people in hell. I'm in the minority.

 

[Sister_X]

be careful about trying to mix science with religion. You might be disappointed. Science can't even prove if there is a God, can you? .

Science: observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.

Religion without some sort science is like..hmmm water without a bowl or a well, you need something to hold it.

In depth study of science makes a person a believer in God, little of it, makes a doubter doubt him.

salaam

 

[Aapa]

Salaam,

Dear Waterdrop,

All Muslims believe that judgement belongs to Allah. Our faith is one of compassion and reason and justice.
I can accept the sincerety of your prayers. Likewise, know that when Muslims pray we pray knowing that all that is in the heavens and earth are the dominion of Allah.
There are fundamental similarties in both faiths. Let me tell you a simple story. When I was young and my family travelled a lot. The sibilings would start being children and argue.My mother would drag us into the nearest church or synogoue...these were days when the prevelance of Islam was not as prominent in the US, she would make us sit still for five minutes..and then we would resume sightseeing or whatever. We were taught to respect all faiths. To this day I respect the faith of all human beings. I recall how peace would descend upon us.
I see your desire for seeking the truth. I appreciate your conviction. Let us make peace and have dialogue.

 

[Waterdrop]

Science: observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.

Religion without some sort science is like..hmmm water without a bowl or a well, you need something to hold it.

In depth study of science makes a person a believer in God, little of it, makes a doubter doubt him.

salaam

then prove to me that allah exist with science.

 

[Waterdrop]

Salaam,

Dear Waterdrop,

All Muslims believe that judgement belongs to Allah. Our faith is one of compassion and reason and justice.
I can accept the sincerety of your prayers. Likewise, know that when Muslims pray we pray knowing that all that is in the heavens and earth are the dominion of Allah.
There are fundamental similarties in both faiths. Let me tell you a simple story. When I was young and my family travelled a lot. The sibilings would start being children and argue.My mother would drag us into the nearest church or synogoue...these were days when the prevelance of Islam was not as prominent in the US, she would make us sit still for five minutes..and then we would resume sightseeing or whatever. We were taught to respect all faiths. To this day I respect the faith of all human beings. I recall how peace would descend upon us.
I see your desire for seeking the truth. I appreciate your conviction. Let us make peace and have dialogue.

I was taught the same as a Christian. I respect all religions, however that doesn't mean that I agree with them all. If the whole world could do the same there would be no religios wars (to me the religious wars are the worst ones)

 

[Waterdrop]

Does that mean you chose Christianity depite your parents? If so, you made an effort to find the truth for yourself and that is something you should be commended for. But why stop now? That's like being unhappy with the abacus then discovering the slide rule and switching to it and stopping there even though there are electronic calculators and computers out there but you don't even want to check them out



None of the following bothers your sensibilities?

• That God would condemn Adam and Eve for a sin He knew they will commit, which He created them capable of doing? - Free will
• That sin is inherited, - your point?
• That a savior is the only way to expiate sin? Those who lived and died before the savior arrived are doomed, or are they forgiven nonetheless? If they are doomed then God has been unfair to them having ended their lives before they had a chance to hear the savior! If they are forgiven then there's a way to forgive sins other than a savior, isn't there?-ask God
• That you worship a man who never said he was God, violating the first commandment?-learn the trinity
• That you follow a book that has been compiled by people you don't know who picked gospels to include and rejected others. Have you read the gospels they rejected? A book that is an English translation, of a Greek translation, of a Hebrew translation of Aramaic origin?-what do you mean we don't know who wrote it?

you seemed destined to disprove the Bible but can't even prove that allah exists. My intention was never to have a debate over wether the quran or the Bible is correct but you seem obsessed with it. Prove to me that allah exist and i'll consider islam. You can't and I know this. You can't even prove that he wrote the quran. I know this as well. Your faith tells you that allah did and that's fine. My faith tells me otherwise. Noone is trying to convert you, that's not my job.

 

[samiha]

:salam2: to my brothers and sisters...

I am going to leave this place in just this second but first...

1. Admin does not disable Edit button. If it is not there then it mayvbe a glitch or I don't know.

2. How are you a Christian if you don't believe in God?

can't even prove that allah exists

umm... you've been here a while. You DO know that Allah is the Arabic word for the Almighty God... right?!

Prove to me that allah exist and i'll consider islam

That doesn't need proof as in something one can give you. To believe God exists you only have to look at miracles of Creation, of Life of Death. You just have to think logically to realize there has to be a God.

You can't even prove that he wrote the quran

The Qur'aan was revealed from allah and conveyed the angel Gabriel (sp?) to Muhammad and memorized by many people. Only later was it written as in a book form.

Noone is trying to convert you, that's not my job.

"there's no compulsion in religion"

nobody is trying to convert you either. only make you think. And I think that maybe your time to get to know Muslims, would be better spent if you first read the Qur'aan. Or if you read the articles about islam, and not the discussions asking questions or trying to diprove the bible. That's not my policy anyways. Read at the Qur'aan and then judge, ok?

If your purpose here is to really learn, then by all means please continue to do so... but first try to understand and look into the fundementals of Islam because at this point, i don't think this is helping you get to know any Muslims better.

May Allah guide you

 

[American Muslim]

Brothers, Sisters, and friends,

I get what Waterdrop is saying, I really do. Before taking shahada, I was a real fundamentalist type of Christian known as Pentecostal. A Christian sees the translation of the Injeel into every language on earth as on of their faith's greatest strength. It allows the "word" of God to reach all men.

We see this as the bibles greatest weakness. We did not make up the phrase "lost in translation" . Some ideas just can't be fully realized in any language but the one that spawned it. Oh, and by the way, the is a very real probablility that Hazrat Isa did speak greek, as it was the lingu franca of the Roman empire. Be that as it may, there are other concerns.

Only the first four books of the bible are credited as gospels. The rest are letters to or from one christian to another. Or else they are snippets of advice. The Qu'aran does not include the ahadith. Yet, Christians will take the word of Paul of Tarsus, or James, the brother of Jesus (PBUH) as holy law.
Whenever I get into why I left christianity, I like to quote from the bible to back up my decision. Please bear with me.

Gospel of Mark, chap 12, v 28-34

28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?"

29 "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.'

30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength

31 The second is this: Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these.

32 "Well said, teacher," the man replied. "You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him.

33 To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices."

34 When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God." And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions.

Anyone else see what Hazrat Jesus said after "Hear, O Israel..." ?

 

[Waterdrop]

:salam2:

I am going to leave this place in just this second but first...

1. Admin does not disable Edit button. If it is not there then it mayvbe a glitch or I don't know.

2. How are you a Christian if you don't believe in God? - *sigh* I've said it a hundred times - I believe in God but cannot proove to someone that he exists, I was playing devil's advocate (most of my questions are). I believe through faith. I believe in God with 100% of my soul.

umm... you've been here a while. You DO know that Allah is the Arabic word for the Almighty God... right?! - yes i do, my question still stands

That doesn't need proof as in something one can give you. To believe God exists you only have to look at miracles of Creation, of Life of Death, of accountability, responsibility and sin. You just have to think logically to realize there has to be a God. - explain evolution then. do you believe in evolution? it's easier to explain to a nonbeliever that evolution is real compared to creatism.

The Qur'aan was revealed from allah and conveyed the angel Gabriel (sp?) to Muhammad and memorized by many people. Only later was it written as in a book form. - or so your told. (i'm playing devil's advocate again) you have no scientific proof that this is true just as I don't have scientific proof that Jesus was the son of God but I rely on my teachings and faith...I can't believe how many times i'm repeating the same thing

"there's no compulsion in religion"

nobody is trying to convert you either. only make you think.

I never mentioned being converted. I can get along nicely with all religions even if I don't agree on the fundamental premise.