BURDEN OF PROOF ON MUSLIMS?

Proud2BeHumble

Seek Truth, Be Happy
:salam2:

Recently one memebr on this site asked which portion of the bible are corrupt and which are ok. This question asked by him (knowingly or unknowingliy) is the same as put up by Geo G. Harris the author of "How to lead Muslims to Christ".

On page 16 of Geo G. Harris' book he teaches his comrades a basic missionary rule in order to corner the Muslim prospective:

"In this chapter it is assumed that the question of the authenticity and genuineness of our scriptures has been raised by the Mohammedan. When this is the case, before we undertake defense of our position we should bear in mind a basic rule. THE BURDEN OF PROOF RESTS WITH THE MOSLEM."


By AHMED DEEDAT

Christian Missionaries in the past hundred years and more have challenged Muslims on many aspects and quite a number of these challenges have, to my knowledge, gone answered or have been partly answered. Perhaps by the will of Allah my contribution in this field can also be answers or part answers to the challenges of the detractors of Islam. It is of supreme importance that we do not go by default.

One such challenge comes to mind viz. Geo G. Harris the author of "How to lead Muslims to Christ". This missionary who tried to convert the Muslims of China says in the usual arrogant and condecending manner of the Westerner on page 19 under the heading — "THE THEORY OR CHARGE OF CORRUPTION."

"WE NOW COME TO THE MOST SERIOUS CHARGE BY THE MOSLEM WORLD, AGAINST OUR CHRISIIAN SCRIPTURES. THERE ARE THREE ASPECTS OF THIS CHARGE.

1. That the Christian scriptures have been so changed and altered that they bear little, if any, resemblance to the glorious Injil praised in the Qur’ân. This can be answered by the asking of one of the following questions: Wherein have these been so changed or altered? Can you obtain a copy of a true Injil and show it that I may compare it with mine? At what date in past history was the unaltered Injil in circulation?

2. That our Gospels have suffered corruption. The following five questions are definite and we have a perfect right to ask them;
(a) Was such corruption or alteration intentional?
(b) Can you point out in my Bible one such passage?
(c) How did this passage read originally?
(d) When, by whom, how or why was it corrupted or altered?
(e) Was such, corruption of the text or of the meaning?

3. That our Gospels are "faked" substitutes for the original Injil. Or that our Gospels are the handiwork of men, not the noble Injil which descended upon Jesus. A little questioning will usually reveal the true situation, that usually the Moslem making the charge is woefully ignorant of the Bible or New Testament as it actually existed in the past or exists today.

BEFORE GOING ON TO THE LATTER HALF OF THIS DISCUSSION, A REMINDER IS IMPORTANT THAT AS SOON AS THE OBJECTOR IS WILLING TO SENSE THE FLIMSINESS OF SUCH A CHARGE WE SHOULD PRESS HOME SOME TEACHING FROM OUR CRIPIURES, THAT OUR EFFORT MAY BE POSITIVE AND NOT NEGATIVE."


HAVE MUSLIMS THE ANSWER?

Have we as Muslims no answers for these questions? If you, gentle reader have read this book you will admit that Ceo G. Harris has no feet to stand on. I have been able to give actual pages from the Bible to disprove his assertions.


MUSLIMS CHALLENGED

On page 16 of Geo G. Harris' book he teaches his comrades a basic missionary rule in order to corner the Muslim prospective:

"In this chapter it is assumed that the question of the authenticity and genuineness of our scriptures has been raised by the Mohammedan. When this is the case, before we undertake defense of our position we should bear in mind a basic rule. THE BURDEN OF PROOF RESTS
WITH THE MOSLEM." 1

Praise be to Allah that in my 40 years of disproving the authenticity of the Bible which the Christians have so boldly asked for, I have been able to win the day.

Remember, we Muslims do not go door to door peddling our religion. Whereas Christians of different denominations encroach upon our privacy and peace and take advantage of our hospitality to harass the unwary Musalman.

Those who are afraid to project the truth when they are provoked by these Christians, who even go to the extent of insulting our beloved Nabee Muhummed (S.A.W.) should re-examine their Eemaan.

The lectures I hold are to sound out these slinking missionaries who "attack" the home and hearth of the unsuspecting Muslim who goes about minding his own business.

The lectures are also aimed at restoring the damaged dignity of the Muslim who has been ruffled by the ruthless attacks of the Christian pedlar. Ask the poor Muslims of Chatsworth, Hanover Park or Riverlea2 as to how they are subjected to the tyrany of certain missionaries.

If this humble little contribution of mine "Is the Bible God's Word?" finds a place in the Muslim home as a bulwark against the missionary menace my effort would be amply rewarded.

A greater reward would be if even one sincere disciple of Jesus (on whom be peace) were to be led to the truth and be removed from fabrications and falsehood.

The greatest reward of course lies with Allah Almighty whom I supplicate for guidance and mercy and pray and crave that He accepts my effort which I dedicate to Him in all humility.

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SO, if Muslims are asked this question on regular basis and christian consider "THE BURDEN OF PROOF RESTS WITH THE MOSLEM" then muslims must educate themselve to read this book or forward it to one who ask such questions.

To download book clik link below:

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1667&d=1182927612

Wasalam
 

konrad16660

Junior Member
ayman1 I would totally enjoy studying the qur'an with you, you are so knowledgable, I hope one day to have such a solid grasp on it such as you!
 

Waterdrop

Banned
you are assuming that the quran is not corrupt. The Bible is only currupt if you believe the quran is correct. Some people believe Satan's Bible (the name escapes me "Necronomicon"? (sp)). It depends on what your point of reference is.
 

muslimguy

Junior Member
:salam2: brother aymeen, I agree with you but people of other faiths won't b/c they don't believe in Quran anyways.

as for WATERDROP, i'LL tell you that our Lord has given us a brain to think with, we don't have to look at anything from any perspective but our own if we want to.


may God guide us all to hte right path.:salam2:
 

Waterdrop

Banned
that's true, however if our own perspective differes from the teachings of whatever book you believe then our own perspective is skewed.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Salaam,

Waterdrop you really get me going. I was amazed to discover you are a female.
I will be really honest with you. Why the anger? Why are you diligent about the error of Muslim belief. So what, if we want to belive, hey that's no sweat of your back.
You have no authority to debate thelological issues. You are stuck on one premise and you go no deeper. It gets boring.
So a group of people have chosen to believe in a certain way. Let it be. You are not in charge of what they want to believe.
No-one is telling you to change your belief system. Each individual is responisbile for his faith and level of commitment to God. It is a very personal matter.
Western historical analysis, literary criticism, of the Bible suggests that there are many interpertations. This is what is taught in semanaries. If the theologians have questions and inconculsive evidence..ask them gain knowledge and then question the motives of other faiths.
 

Imran_00

Descendent of Aadam
hi

Waterdrop , dont look at what prespective you looking from or i looking from . you just have to point out thhe contridicions in the quran to prove it is curropted. thats it. my friend. an yah the real quran which is recited not translation. the real quran is in Fussa (Classical arabic). so read the one in classical arabic, understand it and then point out the contridicions. .
 

Waterdrop

Banned
I'm not really sure what you're trying to say but what I said was that if you believe the Bible to be true then the quran will be corrupt and vica versa. I believe the bible to be true. It's sort of like a this or that type argument. A person believing every single thing in the quran as to rely on faith that eveything is correct (there is no way of proving right or wrong through science, this is true for the Bible as well). It is only logical that you would then find the Bible to be currupt.
 

Waterdrop

Banned
hi

so read the one in classical arabic, understand it and then point out the contridicions. .

sorry, for some reason the admins don't want me to be able to edit my posts.

..I will never read it in classical arabic since I don't know arabic and have no intentions of learning it.
 

Imran_00

Descendent of Aadam
hi...

so waterdrop do you really think that Jessus ISA (AS) spoke english or anglish older verion of english. If i am not mistaken then he spoke Aramaic. isnt it . so that means when (he was crusified according to cristians and he was risen above to heavens in the presense of god according to Muslims) then after that event someone must have translated . so that means in translation anything can happen . dont you think . becaus according to history Jessus dint speak English . nor did he sppeak greek. so what did he speak --- Aramaic.

we muslim dont say that bible is completely true. because of the contridictions in it. and we say that the araimic scriptures . which was known as injiil . is the real thing of crisitans . bible is the translation of those scriptures.
 

Waterdrop

Banned
So why don't you point out to us the contradiction is quran one point by one point so we can answer you??? @ waterdrop

Are you serious? I must not of explained myself correctly. I'll do it one more time. If you're Christian and believe everything the Bible says happened it is more than logical to assume that you will find the quran false. Christians believe in the trinity, the quran doesn't. Islam believes that the quran is true and the Bible is not.
 

Waterdrop

Banned
hi...

so waterdrop do you really think that Jessus ISA (AS) spoke english or anglish older verion of english. If i am not mistaken then he spoke Aramaic. isnt it . so that means when (he was crusified according to cristians and he was risen above to heavens in the presense of god according to Muslims) then after that event someone must have translated . so that means in translation anything can happen . dont you think . becaus according to history Jessus dint speak English . nor did he sppeak greek. so what did he speak --- Aramaic.

we muslim dont say that bible is completely true. because of the contridictions in it. and we say that the araimic scriptures . which was known as injiil . is the real thing of crisitans . bible is the translation of those scriptures.

you are making assumptions that the translations are wrong or those that speak english cannot learn. Everyone knows that Jesus spoke Aramaic.
 
Are you serious? I must not of explained myself correctly. I'll do it one more time. If you're Christian and believe everything the Bible says happened it is more than logical to assume that you will find the quran false. Christians believe in the trinity, the quran doesn't. Islam believes that the quran is true and the Bible is not.

Hey Waterdrop,

May I ask what your intentions are for coming to TTI if you don't believe in the Quran and will never read it??

You're probably trying to convert people, go ahead because it will never happen! You are wasting your time. What you don't understand is that you (or I) can't guide no one, it is only Allah (word for God in Arabic) that guides.

-----------------------------------------------
"Verily, you (O Muhammad) guide not whom you like, but Allah guides whom He wills. And He knows best those who are the guided" (28:56)

“Verily, Allah will never change the condition of a people until they change what is within themselves.” (13:11)
 

Imran_00

Descendent of Aadam
Water drop

so why are you comparing Bible to Quran .. Bible is in Enlish . not araimic. Quran is in Arabic . which is another symitic language . quite similar to araimic.

as you say . no assumptions from me i take my assumtions back. but why is that almost every muslim pray in arabic . even arabic is not many of the muslims language . like for example . i am from pakistan. and my language is like persians(Iran). not arabic . but still i pray while reciting arabic. not urdu(Pakistans Language). so do you think that we are better in learning language than crisitans. well i dont think thats the reason. but what i think is that its difficult to translate symitic language to english and then get the same meaning . i mean you can get closer but not same as any symitic lanuage.
 

Waterdrop

Banned
Hey Waterdrop,

May I ask what your intentions are for coming to TTI if you don't believe in the Quran and will never read it??

You're probably trying to convert people, go ahead because it will never happen! You are wasting your time. What you don't understand is that you can't guide no one, it is only Allah (word for God in Arabic) that guides.

-----------------------------------------------
"Verily, you (O Muhammad) guide not whom you like, but Allah guides whom He wills. And He knows best those who are the guided" (28:56)

“Verily, Allah will never change the condition of a people until they change what is within themselves.” (13:11)


please go back and re-read what I said. it seems like a trend that people "misread" what I wrote.

I'm not trying to convert anyone, besides I'm not the best at doing that, I like to ask questions. These questions shouldn't "threaten" you since you said it would be a waste of my time. I want to guide noone, where did you get that idea?
 

Waterdrop

Banned
Water drop

so why are you comparing Bible to Quran .. Bible is in Enlish . not araimic. Quran is in Arabic . which is another symitic language . quite similar to araimic.

as you say . no assumptions from me i take my assumtions back. but why is that almost every muslim pray in arabic . even arabic is not many of the muslims language . like for example . i am from pakistan. and my language is like persians(Iran). not arabic . but still i pray while reciting arabic. not urdu(Pakistans Language). so do you think that we are better in learning language than crisitans. well i dont think thats the reason. but what i think is that its difficult to translate symitic language to english and then get the same meaning . i mean you can get closer but not same as any symitic lanuage.


Why are you stuck on trying to talk about what language it's in? I don't care if it's written in Polish! Just because something is written in one lanquage doesn't mean all other languages don't understand or are below knowing. Please tell me what was not translated correctly.
 

NX01

New Member
Hi Waterdrop,

I got what you trying to say. If you believe in such and such is true, due to the media or people around you, you are most likely to believe such and such is true.

To reiterate what my muslims brothers/sisters are mentioning in this post, due to translations of the bibles, there are now many bibles version which is equal to "many books". Why is this such? I believe this to re-correct the translation of previous translation which is not too clear in meaning or contradiction were found. The popular one is called King James version. Why the word version??

Where-else the Quran is only 1 book. It has been preserved for more than 1400 yrs now.

Ponder on this issue as Allah has given us the ability to think of what is the truth and what is not. What is logical and what is not. While you are pondering over this, Let me show you an extract of ustaz Ahmed Deedat book on "IS THE BIBLE GODS WORD?".

The "gospel" is a frequently-used word, but what Gospel did Jesus preach? Of the 27 books of the New Testament, only a small fraction can be accepted as the words of Jesus. The Christians boast about the Gospels according to St. Matthew, according to St. Mark, according to St. Luke
and according to St. John, but there is not a single Gospel "according" to (St.) Jesus himself!

In his life-time Jesus never wrote a single word, nor did he instruct anyone to
do so. What passes off as the "GOSPELS" today are the works of anonymous hands!

The question before us is: "Do you accept that the Bible is God's Word?" — Your answer may be "Which Bible are you talking about?"
 

Waterdrop

Banned
Why wouldn't you study the Quran and even learn Arabic? Can you guarantee that it is not the truth? What would be your excuse on the Day of Accounting when God asks you this question? What if, say, Hinduism turns out to be the true religion, did you even try to find out?

one premise: Christians believe that Jesus died for our sins, Muslims believe he was nothing more than a prophet. It's a HUGE fundamental difference. I'm not in the business of calling out other religions but since it is becomming apparant that many here do it to me I ask you. How do you know that the quran is right and not just written by some guy?

I've been asked the same thing about the Bible. My response? I have faith. You cannot debate, prove or disprove faith.
 

Sister_X

Junior Member
Waterdrop, a translation is the shadow of the original language, A muslim must learn arabic whether he/she is english,american or African, they at least memories a number of chapters of the quran to do salat(prayer).

More and more christian are leaving christianity and coming to Islam the right path, without any muslim knocking on their door to "save" them.

There is no compulsion for men/womenn to accept the TRUTH. But it is certainly a shame upon the human intellect when men/women are not even interested in finding out as to what is the TRUTH!

"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error.."2:256 Quran.
 
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