Chapter Psalm 91 clearly and indisputably confirms that Jesus never got crucified!

sandra canada

Laa ilaha illa Allah
Chapter Psalm 91 clearly and indisputably confirms that Jesus never got crucified!​

Before I list the entire short chapter of Psalm 91, let us first look at the following Verses from the Noble Quran and the Bible:

Let us look at the following Noble Verse from the Noble Quran (The Muslims Holy Scripture): "That they rejected Faith; That they uttered against Mary A grave false charge; That they said (in boast): 'We killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary, The Messenger of Allah.' But they killed him not, Nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not. Nay, Allah raised him up Unto Himself; and Allah Is Exalted in Power, Wise. And there is none of the people of the book (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him (Jesus) Before his death; And on the Day of Judgment He (Jesus) will be a witness Against them. (The Noble Quran, 4:156-159)"
Now compare the Noble Verses to Isaiah 52:13 "...he will be raised and lifted up....". Notice that Isaiah 52:13 did not say "....he will be RESURRECTED and lifted up...." Not even once, did the Old Testament predict for the foretold Servant (Jesus) to be raised to GOD Almighty after death. There absolutely no mention of any sort of resurrection in the Bible's Old Testament what so ever.

Here are few more translations of Isaiah 52:13:

"Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high. (From the King James Version Bible, Isaiah 52:13)"

"Lo, My servant doth act wisely, He is high, and hath been lifted up, And hath been very high. (From Young's Literal Translation Bible, Isaiah 52:13)"

"Behold, my servant shall act wisely; he shall be high and lifted up, and shall be exalted. (From the English Standard Version Bible, Isaiah 52:13)"

"Behold, my servant shall deal prudently; he shall be exalted and be lifted up, and be very high. (From Darby Translation Bible, Isaiah 52:13)"

The text in all of the translations above clearly suggests that Jesus will be honored and lifted up from crucifixion. He will not be humiliated and crucified.

Also, "...he will be raised and lifted up...." seems to suggest that Jesus will be picked up right from the cross, or saved right from the cross by Allah Almighty. "raised and lifted" clearly suggests that Jesus will not die, nor get crucified, but rather be raised and lifted by GOD Almighty to Heavens.



It just seems odd to see both words "raised" and "lifted", and not just one of them, in Isaiah 52:13, and yet think that they agree with the fabricated crucifixion story about Jesus in the NT.

Why did GOD Almighty choose to say "raised" and "lifted" in Isaiah 52:13?





And what about the bones?



The Verses that reference the Bones:
"A righteous man may have many troubles, but the LORD delivers him from them all; he protects all his bones, not one of them will be broken. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 34:19-20)"

As these verses don't even seem to be talking about the Messiah or any crucifixion, but assuming that they did, notice how Psalm 34:20 says that GOD Almighty will protect "all his bones". So, not even an inch from his bones will be damaged according to the Scriptures - again assuming that the verses are even talking about the Messiah!! This is exactly what the Noble Quran and Isaiah 52:13 say!

Also, notice how Psalm 34:19 says that the LORD delivers him from "ALL OF THE troubles, which clearly goes against the crucifixion lie. But anyway despite the John 19:36 verse, I still proved, by Allah Almighty's Mercy, Grace and Will, that the Psalm verses actually further proved the Noble Quran's claims along with Isaiah 52:13, and Jesus' Disciples' and the Early Christians original writings that were found in Palestine and Egypt about Jesus never got crucified!





Again, I clearly see the Noble Quran's Claim about Jesus being saved from crucifixion being confirmed in Psalm 34:20!


Let us now take a look at
Psalm 91:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm 91;&version=31;


Psalm 91
1 He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High
will rest in the shadow of the Almighty. [a]

2 I will say of the LORD, "He is my refuge and my fortress,
my God, in whom I trust."

3 Surely he will save you from the fowler's snare
and from the deadly pestilence.

4 He will cover you with his feathers,
and under his wings you will find refuge;
his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart.

5 You will not fear the terror of night,
nor the arrow that flies by day,

6 nor the pestilence that stalks in the darkness,
nor the plague that destroys at midday.

7 A thousand may fall at your side,
ten thousand at your right hand,
but it will not come near you.

8 You will only observe with your eyes
and see the punishment of the wicked. (According to the Noble Quran and the original writings of the Disciples of Jesus, Jesus was not crucified, and he watched the crucifixion of the doomed person).

9 If you make the Most High your dwelling—
even the LORD, who is my refuge-

10 then no harm will befall you,
no disaster will come near your tent.

11 For he will command his angels concerning you
to guard you in all your ways;

12 they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone. (If Jesus died on the cross and got buried, then his feet would've struck the ground and the stones on it from bringing him down, throwing him on the floor and burying him).

13 You will tread upon the lion and the cobra;
you will trample the great lion and the serpent.

14 "Because he loves me," says the LORD, "I will rescue him;
I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name.

15 He will call upon me, and I will answer him;
I will be with him in trouble,
I will deliver him and honor him.

16 With long life will I satisfy him
and show him my salvation."

Footnotes:

Psalm 91:1 Hebrew Shaddai
Psalm 91:2 Or He says


There is no question!

There is no question that the emphasized parts above, especially in Psalm 91:12, clearly and indisputably agree with the Noble Quran's and Isaiah 52:13 above! Jesus was neither crucified nor resurrected, and he was protected and lifted by GOD Almighty.


Also, Man's lie in John 19:36:


John 19:36 falsely referenced Psalm 34:20 about the unbroken bones of Jesus, when Psalm 34:19-20 were talking about any righteous man:

"These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: "Not one of his bones will be broken, (From the NIV Bible, John 19:36)"

Here are the Old Testament's verses:

"A righteous man may have many troubles, but the LORD delivers him from them all; he protects all his bones, not one of them will be broken. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 34:19-20)"

Not only that, but notice also how Psalm 34:19 says that the LORD delivers him from "ALL OF THE troubles, which clearly goes against the crucifixion lie. But anyway despite the John 19:36 verse, I still proved, by Allah Almighty's Mercy, Grace and Will, that the Psalm verses actually further proved the Noble Quran's claims along with Isaiah 52:13, and Jesus' Disciples' and the Early Christians original writings that were found in Palestine and Egypt about Jesus never got crucified! See below...


Christianity's biggest lies, the Crucifixion and Resurrection, were never prophesied in the Bible's Old Testament!

You would expect that such major events, that make up the entire case for Christianity, to be at least prophesied in the Bible's Old Testament. But the Truth and the sad reality for the polytheist trinitarian pagans and infidels is that neither one of these major events was ever mentioned in the OT, especially the resurrection! There is some twisting and perverting of text by the infidels, which is thoroughly exposed and destroyed below, on the Messiah's facing of death (which both the OT and the Noble Quran refute), but NOTHING was mentioned about the Messiah's resurrection!

1- Below we'll see how Isaiah 53, not only refutes the crucifixion lie, but it also supports Islam's Claims about Jesus never got crucified, which is also the same claim of



Jesus' own disciples' early and original writings
http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac24.htm#links
that were found in Palestine and Egypt!

2- The following links contain indesputable and clear-cut evidence proving that the resurrection is a lie, and that it was never mentioned in the OT:

A serious forgery in Luke 24:44-48 about Jesus' "resurrection on the third day" claiming that it was foretold in the OT when it wasn't!
http://www.answering-christianity.com/luke_forgery.htm



The Resurrection Hoax. By Abdullah Smith.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/abdullah_smith/the_resurrection_hoax.htm



Also, please visit brother Abdullah Smith's excellent articles:

The Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/abdullah_smith/isaiah_53_part_1.htm

- Part II.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/abdullah_smith/isaiah_53_part_2.htm

- Part III.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/abdullah_smith/isaiah_53_part_3.htm



Now to the article...



Did Isaiah 53 really prophesies about the crucifixion of Jesus?



There are two possible answers for this chapter:

1- (Taking the christians' lies) The Old Testament did indeed claim that the Messiah will die, and then GOD Almighty cancelled this prediction as He has COUNTLESSLY done in the Bible's OT and NT.

2- The Old Testament never claimed that the Messiah will die as I clearly proved below.





Possibility #1:

(The Old Testament did indeed claim that the Messiah will die and then GOD Almighty cancelled this prediction)


First of all, it is important to know that GOD Almighty in the Old Testament did "repent" or change His Mind about executing certain decisions. GOD Almighty is not stuck with anything. He created us as humans and He created the ability in us to make wills and choices. Sometimes based on the decisions that humans make, GOD Almighty then takes a certain route or Decision that best fits the situation according to His Sight. Let us look at few examples of GOD Almighty Changing His Mind in the Bible:





GOD Almighty Changing His Emotions:

Ample verses from the book of Isaiah. The article and the verses are too long to post here.



GOD Almighty Changing His Mind:

"How can I give you up, Ephraim? How can I hand you over, Israel? How can I treat you like Admah? How can I make you like Zeboiim? My heart is changed within me; all my compassion is aroused."
(Hosea 11:8)

"So the LORD relented. "This will not happen," the LORD said."
(Amos 7:3)

"and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned."
(Jeremiah 18:8)



Who knows, GOD Almighty does repent:

"Then the LORD relented and did not bring on his people the disaster he had threatened."
(Exodus 32:14)

"Who can tell, God may turn and revoke His sentence against us, and turn away from His fierce anger so that we perish not. And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God revoked His evil that He had said that He would do to them and He did not do it."
(Jonah 3:9-10)
(I removed their brackets and commentaries for easy read)


"Rend your hearts and not your garments and return to the Lord, your God, for He is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and abounding in loving-kindness; and He revokes His sentence of evil. Who knows but what He will turn, revoke your sentence, and leave a blessing behind Him, even a cereal or meal offering and a drink offering for the Lord, your God?"
(Joel 2:13-14)
(I removed their brackets and commentaries for easy read)


"And God sent an angel to destroy Jerusalem. But as the angel was doing so, the LORD saw it and was grieved because of the calamity and said to the angel who was destroying the people, "Enough! Withdraw your hand." The angel of the LORD was then standing at the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite."
(1 Chronicles 21:15)


"and Jehovah repenteth of the evil which He hath spoken of doing to His people."
(Exodus 32:14)


"and Jehovah repenteth that He hath made man in the earth, and He grieveth Himself -- unto His heart."
(Genesis 6:6)


"And when Jehovah raised up to them judges -- then was Jehovah with the judge, and saved them out of the hand of their enemies all the days of the judge; for it repenteth Jehovah, because of their groaning from the presence of their oppressors, and of those thrusting them away."
(Judges 2:18)


"and the messenger putteth forth his hand to Jerusalem to destroy it, and Jehovah repenteth concerning the evil, and saith to the messenger who is destroying among the people, `Enough, now, cease thy hand;' and the messenger of Jehovah was near the threshing-floor of Araunah the Jebusite."
(2 Samuel 24:16)


"Put him at all to death did Hezekiah king of Judah, and all Judah? Did he not fear Jehovah? yea, he appeaseth the face of Jehovah, and Jehovah repenteth concerning the evil that He spake against them; and we are doing great evil against our souls."
(Jeremiah 26:19)

(www.answering-christianity.com/abrogation_in_bible.htm)




Many more examples that I do not wish to crowd this article with of GOD Almighty Changing his Mind in the Bible are available at: Abrogation in the Bible. But these simple examples in the verses above should be, by themselves, more than enough to prove my point.

As we clearly see, GOD Almighty did take a decision and then reverted from executing it. So it is quite possible that GOD Almighty did decide to not crucify Jesus, the Messiah, on the cross because of all of the evil that was done to him by the people of Israel. Certainly,



The Disciples' early writings clearly claimed that Jesus never got crucified!

http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac24.htm#links


(Peter even said that the crucifixion is a lie!)


Not only that, but their manuscripts and canons were "widely accepted" among early Christians during the first 3 centuries of Christianity. Visit the link and see the ample proofs for yourself. This clearly means that the early Christians DID NOT believe:

1- In the lie of Jesus got crucified.

2- In the lie that Jesus' disciples died for the belief that he got crucified.

My Challenge to Christians:

Since the early Christians' and the Disciples' original writings

all claim that Jesus never got crucified,

http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac24.htm#links


then why couldn't Jehovah Almighty have said something similar to this:

"...And Jehovah repented from the evil of crucifying the Messiah...."

"...And Jehovah repented from the evil of crucifying the Messiah...."

Why couldn't this be possible when GOD Almighty saw that the Jews were total losers and that no Prophet was ever fruitful with them! They were even notorious in slaying Prophets:

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! (From the KJV Bible, Matthew 23:37)"

"We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of apostles; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you an apostle with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride?- Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay! (The Noble Quran, 2:87)"

"And remember ye said: "O Moses! we cannot endure one kind of food (always); so beseech thy Lord for us to produce for us of what the earth groweth, -its pot-herbs, and cucumbers, Its garlic, lentils, and onions." He said: "Will ye exchange the better for the worse? Go ye down to any town, and ye shall find what ye want!" They were covered with humiliation and misery; they drew on themselves the wrath of God. This because they went on rejecting the Signs of God and slaying His Messengers without just cause. This because they rebelled and went on transgressing. (The Noble Quran, 2:61)"

"As to those who deny the Signs of God and in defiance of right, slay the prophets, and slay those who teach just dealing with mankind, announce to them a grievous penalty. (The Noble Quran, 3:21)"

"God hath heard the taunt of those who say: "Truly, God is indigent and we are rich!"- We shall certainly record their word and (their act) of slaying the prophets in defiance of right, and We shall say: "Taste ye the penalty of the Scorching Fire! (The Noble Quran, 3:181)"


Show one logical reason that would disprove my challenge here! Didn't Jehovah Almighty already "repent" many times in the past from Divine Decisions that He has already taken as we clearly saw above?




Possibility #2:

(The Old Testament never claimed that the Messiah will die as I clearly proved below)




Introductory Note:

Jesus' Disciples' and the Early Christians' Doctrines clearly declare that Jesus never got crucified!

http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac24.htm#links


Also, Hebrews 5:7-8 confirm Islam's claim about Jesus never got crucified and contradicts the Bible!
http://www.answering-christianity.com/hebrews5_7.htm

According to the documentary film, "Banned from the Bible", which I watched on the History Channel, http://store.aetv.com/html/search/cb_search.jhtml?search=banned+from+the+bible&x=0&y=0&key=||banned%20from%20the%20bible||&_requestid=162901

some of Saint Peter's apocalypse were banned from the current Bible, and these Epistles contain what Islam claims - that Jesus didn't get crucified on the cross and it only appeared that he was. This banned part also says that Jesus was standing next to the cross laughing. These are the parts of the Bible that only few people in the world know about.

According to the documentary film, the
apocalypse http://www.answering-christianity.com/early_christians.htm
was very popular among Christians during the 2nd century. They believed "it was spiritually inspired" by GOD Almighty to Saint Peter. They actually had doubts about "John's apocalypse", which is known today as "the Book of Revelation". Interestingly also, this apocalypse says that after GOD Almighty fills both Heaven and Hell with inhabitants from Mankind, and the people of Hell get tortured for a long period of time, the People of Heaven will ask and Pray to GOD Almighty to Forgive the people of Hell. GOD Almighty will then eventually listen to their Prayers, and will order the "Gates and the Steel Bars of Hell" to be opened and allow the people of Hell to enter Heaven for Good. This apocalypse of Peter seems to also perfectly fit Noble Verse 7:40 in the Noble Quran where Allah Almighty Promised that He will eventually open the Gates of Heaven to all disbelievers and empty Hell.


The Short Chapter of Isaiah 53 with my comments:

Trinitarian Christians claim that Chapter Isaiah 53 in the Bible confirms crucifixion. This article proves that Chapter Isaiah 53 along with Isaiah 52:13-14, John 19:36-37, Psalm 34:20 and
and Hebrews 5:7-8 (these verses explicitly say that GOD Almighty heard Jesus' cries about not getting crucified on the cross) prove without a doubt that Islam's claim about Jesus peace be upon him never died on the cross and was raised to Allah Almighty is indeed the Truth. Let us look at the Chapter of Isaiah 53 in the Bible:




1
Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
2
He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3
He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4
Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted.
5
But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.
6
We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7
He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.
8
By oppression and judgment he was taken away. And who can speak of his descendants? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was stricken

He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death
[The word "death" does not exist in the original Hebrew text. Here is what the literal translation says: "And it appointeth with the wicked his grave, And with the rich [are] his high places"....This is verified at this link:

(Young's Literal Translation)]

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=isaiah 53&version=15;
, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth.



Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.
11
After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light and be satisfied; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities.
12
Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death [This is clarified in details down in this article. It doesn't at all mean that he will die. The literal translation says: "Because that he exposed to death his soul"....This is verified again at this link: (Young's Literal Translation).......Both Islam and Isaiah 52:13 claim that Jesus never got crucified. See below.], and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.


Isaiah 53 perfectly agrees with Islam:

Let us look at this Verse: "After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light and be satisfied; (From the NIV Bible, Isaiah 53:11)" The idea of this servant who will get pierced is NOT that he will DIE for people's sins. Notice that in Isaiah 53:9 it clearly says "He was assigned a grave with the wicked", which means that he will have a grave assigned to his name, but it doesn't necessarily mean that his dead body will be in it.



1- The Bible's New Testament refutes the "piercing" story:

If we were to take the Bible literally, then we will see clear contradictions in the crucifixion story. Let us look at what the Bible says about piercing Jesus:

John 19:30-40:

30
When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
31
Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jews did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down.
32
The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other.
33
But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.
34
Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus' side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.
35
The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe.
36
These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: "Not one of his bones will be broken," (see how the OT in this one indisputably confirms the Noble Quran's claims, below)



The Verses that reference the Bones:
"A righteous man may have many troubles, but the LORD delivers him from them all; he protects all his bones, not one of them will be broken. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 34:19-20)"

As these verses don't even seem to be talking about the Messiah or any crucifixion, but assuming that they did, notice how Psalm 34:20 says that GOD Almighty will protect "all his bones". So, not even an inch from his bones will be damaged according to the Scriptures - again assuming that the verses are even talking about the Messiah!! This is exactly what the Noble Quran and Isaiah 52:13 say!

Also, notice how Psalm 34:19 says that the LORD delivers him from "ALL OF THE troubles, which clearly goes against the crucifixion lie. But anyway despite the John 19:36 verse, I still proved, by Allah Almighty's Mercy, Grace and Will, that the Psalm verses actually further proved the Noble Quran's claims along with Isaiah 52:13, and Jesus' Disciples' and the Early Christians original writings that were found in Palestine and Egypt about Jesus never got crucified! See

www,answering-chrisitianity.com

To Be continued
 

shichemlydia

Junior Member
may allah reward you

salam alikoum ,
thanks for the efforts you provided to gather this good thread, it is really interesting,
i do not really know why christians do not believe even in their bibles.
may allah reward you, ameen
:wasalam:
 

sandra canada

Laa ilaha illa Allah
salam alikoum ,
thanks for the efforts you provided to gather this good thread, it is really interesting,
i do not really know why christians do not believe even in their bibles.
may allah reward you, ameen
:wasalam:

May ALLAH ENTER YOU FARDOOS BROTHER

YEA THATS WHAT I AM SAYING EVERYWHERE WHY THEY DON'T FOLLOW THE RIGHT JESUS?
WHY THEY DON'T BELIEVE ON THEIR BIBLE?


FOR THAT Allah answering them in quran

chapter 4:157 ,158

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";― but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not.― (157) Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise. (158) (158) And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment He will be a witness against them.― (159)

وَقَوۡلِهِمۡ إِنَّا قَتَلۡنَا ٱلۡمَسِيحَ عِيسَى ٱبۡنَ مَرۡيَمَ رَسُولَ ٱللَّهِ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ وَمَا صَلَبُوهُ وَلَـٰكِن شُبِّهَ لَهُمۡ*!ۚ وَإِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ٱخۡتَلَفُواْ فِيهِ لَفِى شَكٍّ۬ مِّنۡهُ*!ۚ مَا لَهُم بِهِۦ مِنۡ عِلۡمٍ إِلَّا ٱتِّبَاعَ ٱلظَّنِّ*!ۚ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ يَقِينَۢا (١٥٧) بَل رَّفَعَهُ ٱللَّهُ إِلَيۡهِ*!ۚ وَكَانَ ٱللَّهُ عَزِيزًا حَكِيمً۬ا (١٥٨) وَإِن مِّنۡ أَهۡلِ ٱلۡكِتَـٰبِ إِلَّا لَيُؤۡمِنَنَّ بِهِۦ قَبۡلَ مَوۡتِهِۦ*!ۖ وَيَوۡمَ ٱلۡقِيَـٰمَةِ يَكُونُ عَلَيۡہِمۡ شَہِيدً۬ا





And in the Bible

يوحنا 20 عدد17:قال لها يسوع لا تلمسيني لأني لم اصعد بعد الى ابي.ولكن اذهبي الى اخوتي وقولي لهم اني اصعد الى ابي وأبيكم والهي والهكم

john 20:17 (New American Standard Bible)
17Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to (A)My brethren and say to them, 'I (B)ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"






see what Allah says


إِذۡ قَالَ ٱللَّهُ يَـٰعِيسَىٰٓ إِنِّى مُتَوَفِّيكَ وَرَافِعُكَ إِلَىَّ وَمُطَهِّرُكَ مِنَ ٱلَّذِينَ ڪَفَرُواْ وَجَاعِلُ ٱلَّذِينَ ٱتَّبَعُوكَ فَوۡقَ ٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوٓاْ إِلَىٰ يَوۡمِ ٱلۡقِيَـٰمَةِ*!ۖ ثُمَّ إِلَىَّ مَرۡجِعُڪُمۡ فَأَحۡڪُمُ بَيۡنَكُمۡ فِيمَا كُنتُمۡ فِيهِ تَخۡتَلِفُونَ

3:55
And remember) when Allah said: O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing thee of those who disbelieve and am setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then unto Me ye will (all) return, and I shall judge between you as to that wherein ye used to differ.



.May Allah direct All christian to the right path ameen
 

David Gould

New Member
Sandra, thank you for your long and thoughtful dissitation on Psalm 91. I have always loved the Psalms representing as they do the more mystical thoughts on one branch of the ancient Hebrews. Psalm 91 was probably penned many centuries before the life of Jesus (PBUH) and refers to the kind of care that the Lord will offer those that obey all his laws and follow his prescepts. Indeed the very angels of God will protect the righteous.

But we live in a real world away from the mystic world of KIng David (Who may or not have been a real historical figure) The New Testament represents for Christians a new convenant between God and his people. Unlike the Qur'an the Bible is a library of books all written at different times representing several different stands of Hebrew and later Greek/Roman thought. It is not just one book, nor does it represent just one faith but several. Nor do Christians by and large treat it as a literal book of proofs. It represents the age in which it was written and must be read in that light.

The Bible does indeed point to God and to the ways in which He wishes us to live. Proof for a Christian is not in the written Word of God but in the Word becoming flesh in the person of Jesus Christ. It is the personal relationship with the risen Christ enjoyed by Christians that is their proof. Not some corrupted texts collected together into a rough comlomerate and the whim of the Council of Nicene.
 

BigAk

Junior Member
Sandra, thank you for your long and thoughtful dissitation on Psalm 91. I have always loved the Psalms representing as they do the more mystical thoughts on one branch of the ancient Hebrews. Psalm 91 was probably penned many centuries before the life of Jesus (PBUH) and refers to the kind of care that the Lord will offer those that obey all his laws and follow his prescepts. Indeed the very angels of God will protect the righteous.

But we live in a real world away from the mystic world of KIng David (Who may or not have been a real historical figure) The New Testament represents for Christians a new convenant between God and his people. Unlike the Qur'an the Bible is a library of books all written at different times representing several different stands of Hebrew and later Greek/Roman thought. It is not just one book, nor does it represent just one faith but several. Nor do Christians by and large treat it as a literal book of proofs. It represents the age in which it was written and must be read in that light.

The Bible does indeed point to God and to the ways in which He wishes us to live. Proof for a Christian is not in the written Word of God but in the Word becoming flesh in the person of Jesus Christ. It is the personal relationship with the risen Christ enjoyed by Christians that is their proof. Not some corrupted texts collected together into a rough comlomerate and the whim of the Council of Nicene.

Wow David... i've only read a few of your posts on here.. It sounds like you know the Qur'an fairly well and know the history of the bible and how it came about in its present form. You're a deep thinker who strikes me to favor logic in order to arrive at truth. What's preventing you from taking the step to become a muslim?? What's missing??

.
 

David Gould

New Member
Wow David... i've only read a few of your posts on here.. It sounds like you know the Qur'an fairly well and know the history of the bible and how it came about in its present form. You're a deep thinker who strikes me to favor logic in order to arrive at truth. What's preventing you from taking the step to become a muslim?? What's missing??

.

You probably know my background and why I came to study the Holy Qur'an and benefit so much from the insights therein. So what is stopping me taking that final step. Well many things that are not part of this thread.

If you have read my posts you will see that I apply literary critism to the Bible so that my faith is not bound up so much in the letter of the text as in the spirit of the text. I trained as a Church of England minister in the 1970s but did not go forward to ordination as my personal walk with God took me to work with Section 53 young offenders. It was here that I saw the power of God to transform lives that others felt were worthless through love and acceptance. I do not care if the Bible stories are actually true or not. What I do care about is that the principles that lie behind them are true.

This thread is about whether Jesus (PBUH) was put to death and rose again from the dead. My faith tells me that is probably true. My experience of life tells me that the principle of renewal through the power of God is definitly true. I find the same God or Allah through the pages of the Holy Qur'an acting in the same way as I have experienced Him through my life. What I also find is a deeper understanding of the nature of God. The 99 names have been my most fervent meditation for the last two years as they are a guide to how God wishes us all to be. Within the 99 names there is no hate, war or killing; only mercy, forgiveness and sustaining. My favourite Surah is 93 and my favourite Ayat is 7 "And he found thee Wandering, and He gave thee guidance." How wonderful is that?

So do I need to be a Muslim and an outcaste within my human family to know the benefits of following Allah who found me wandering and gave me guidance. My path is not yet fully trod. Allah is not yet done with me. I am his servant to do as He wills. Who knows but Him what he has yet is store for me. The only assurance I have is that if my eyes are one Him, He will never forsake me and indeed I will never be an orphan as I am a child in His arms and my path is His way.
 

BigAk

Junior Member
Wow again... I am glad to have gotten to know you more, and I'm glad you're here.. You are indeed one of those who Allah has told us about:

:bismillah:

"Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.

And when they listen to the revelation received by the Messenger, thou wilt see their eyes overflowing with tears, for they recognise the truth: they pray: "Our Lord! we believe; write us down among the witnesses.

"What cause can we have not to believe in Allah and the truth which has come to us, seeing that we long for our Lord to admit us to the company of the righteous?"

And for this their prayer hath Allah rewarded them with gardens, with rivers flowing underneath,- their eternal home. Such is the recompense of those who do good.

But those who reject Faith and belie our Signs,- they shall be companions of Hell-fire. "

Noble Qur'an (005.082 - 005.086)

I don't meet many of your type David.
 

blackivy393

Junior Member
well here's a website where christians believe all the scriptures were prophesized in the old testament and late fulfilled in the new testament. and how the bible said his bones were not broken, does that mean he was not touched ? no it means exactly what it means when he went through his ordeal none of his bones got broken; but could other bodily injury occured yes.



http://www.lifeofchrist.com/life/prophecy/
 

hellbraker

Junior Member
Psalms 91 says God will protect and rescue anyone who loves him and truly know who He is.
But Jesus says He will not ask God to keep Him from suffering.He said He came into this world to suffer.

John 12:27
Now I am deeply troubled, and I don't know what to say. But I must not ask my Father to keep me from this time of suffering. In fact, I came into the world to suffer.


 

hellbraker

Junior Member
One more thing

Did you know that Psalm 91 was used by Satan to tempt Jesus in the desert?Jesus replies to all what Satan said.Please compare Pslams 91 and the 3 temptations.Jesus answers by quoting verses from Deuteronomy.It is also interesting for me to note that Satan knows the Scriptures..
 

David Gould

New Member
One more thing

Did you know that Psalm 91 was used by Satan to tempt Jesus in the desert?Jesus replies to all what Satan said.Please compare Pslams 91 and the 3 temptations.Jesus answers by quoting verses from Deuteronomy.It is also interesting for me to note that Satan knows the Scriptures..

Satan knows the scriptures sometimes better than we do...which is why we have to tread carefully when someone appears with lots of quotes...there are tests in both the Muslim and Christian faiths. I am sure some of you can enlighten us about the Muslim ones.
 

nobbyv

Abu Maryam
well here's a website where christians believe all the scriptures were prophesized in the old testament and late fulfilled in the new testament. and how the bible said his bones were not broken, does that mean he was not touched ? no it means exactly what it means when he went through his ordeal none of his bones got broken; but could other bodily injury occured yes.

Hello BlackIvy,

About "the bones not being broken...", as per the biblical perspective, we have 3 IRON NAILS being driven into his body!! Won't this cause atleast an hairline fracture? That would be more than sufficient to invalidate the prophecy!! Won't it??
 

nobbyv

Abu Maryam
This thread is about whether Jesus (PBUH) was put to death and rose again from the dead. My faith tells me that is probably true. My experience of life tells me that the principle of renewal through the power of God is definitly true. I find the same God or Allah through the pages of the Holy Qur'an acting in the same way as I have experienced Him through my life. What I also find is a deeper understanding of the nature of God. The 99 names have been my most fervent meditation for the last two years as they are a guide to how God wishes us all to be. Within the 99 names there is no hate, war or killing; only mercy, forgiveness and sustaining. My favourite Surah is 93 and my favourite Ayat is 7 "And he found thee Wandering, and He gave thee guidance." How wonderful is that?

Dear David,

Being a former Christian, I can understand what you are saying...I too, had similar beliefs...Thank you for sharing your views.

You mentioned that you believe Jesus(pbuh) died and rose from the dead. But Why do you think this is necessary? Why do you think a Human Sacrifice is necessary for GOD to forgive our sins? Why is bloodshed really required for sins to be forgiven? Doesn't this compromise the basic attribute of GOD being ALL MERCIFUL? Wouldn't it be easier for GOD to say "Your sins are forgiven, my son!". I have asked this question to many Christians and non of them could really give an answer!!

What did Jesus teach, as per the bible? Whenever people used to ask about attaining Paradise, he would reply:

1) Keep the Commandments,
2) Love your GOD with all your heart, mind and soul
3) Repent, and thou shall be saved
4) Observe the Law of the prophets etc...etc...

Isn't this more befitting the All Merciful and Just GOD, rather than...a GOD who requires a Human Sacrifice to forgive our sins??
 

sandra canada

Laa ilaha illa Allah
:salam2::hijabi:hey all sorry brothers i was busy and still

wait for my comments :shymuslima1:idont have time to read even a letter


I LOVE YOU ALL BROTHERS AND SISTERS MAY ALLAH GUID US TO THE RIGHT PATH
 

hellbraker

Junior Member


Wouldn't it be easier for GOD to say "Your sins are forgiven, my son!". I have asked this question to many Christians and non of them could really give an answer!!


You just reminded me what Jesus said.Im not sure whether this is related to the original post,but Im saying this because your comment is similar to what Jesus replied to the Pharisees.But still I dont understand by what Jesus said.

Luke 5:23
Which is easier: to say, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up and walk'?

Similarly in Matthew 9:5 Jesus says the same thing.But why?What did he mean?I dont get it..
 
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