Creating Thread after Thread on a misconception? LOL

True_Sultan

A logical believer
Salam bro an sis,

So this monday my classes officially start, have been having frosh. Anyway I was thinking about my aspiration..i don't like have the feeling for it i guess. but none the less i see everywhere that people are saying and studying in the quran that the keys to the ghayb is just the 5 items in surat luqmam and some say that im not just seeing it. So does that mean the keys to the ghayb is nothing beyond/infinite/unknown/*shudders* type thing and the treasures that the ghayb is just the 5 items in luqmam? :confused: cause this site is proving me wrong..

http://www.quranicstudies.com/louay-fatoohi/quran/the-concept-of-ghayb-unseen-in-the-quran.html
 

True_Sultan

A logical believer
Salam bro an sis,

So this monday my classes officially start, have been having frosh. Anyway I was thinking about my aspiration..i don't like have the feeling for it i guess. but none the less i see everywhere that people are saying and studying in the quran that the keys to the ghayb is just the 5 items in surat luqmam and some say that im not just seeing it. So does that mean the keys to the ghayb is nothing beyond/infinite/unknown/*shudders* type thing and the treasures that the ghayb is just the 5 items in luqmam? :confused: cause this site is proving me wrong..

http://www.quranicstudies.com/louay-fatoohi/quran/the-concept-of-ghayb-unseen-in-the-quran.html

Hmm I was wondering what the answer for the above is because even by going through old threads i see contradictions between everyone who answered XD
 

a_stranger

Junior Member
:salam2:

Brother don`t west your efforts in matters beyound your human abilities , You can do great things with the faith in your heart , you can pray , fast, read Quran ,study , help people, say kind words, do good to your parents and family , smile, remember Allah sobhanahu wa taala, forgive, make people happy.....................etc. millions of good deeds with millions of hasanat. This is your way to janna. Our minds have a wide but limited domains stop thinking about ghayb......... some day all the hidden will be shown but we should struggle to be on the safe side in Janna.:salah:

with regards
 

besmiralalbani

Think for yourself
salam alaykum

If you read with attention the past posts, brother and sisters have tried by their words to explain you that ghyb is also meant the items considered in this article...

The 5 things of surat Lluqman also...
There is no contradiction brother.

You have to understand the meanings, what is meant in the different places.
I hope you don't stay always in this state, asking always about it and not clearing your ideas...

I hope Allah guide you and us, give us sound knowledge and protect us.
Assalamu alaykum
 

True_Sultan

A logical believer
:salam2:

Brother don`t west your efforts in matters beyound your human abilities , You can do great things with the faith in your heart , you can pray , fast, read Quran ,study , help people, say kind words, do good to your parents and family , smile, remember Allah sobhanahu wa taala, forgive, make people happy.....................etc. millions of good deeds with millions of hasanat. This is your way to janna. Our minds have a wide but limited domains stop thinking about ghayb......... some day all the hidden will be shown but we should struggle to be on the safe side in Janna.:salah:

with regards

since when will God show us the secret to creation and all that? :S

If you read with attention the past posts, brother and sisters have tried by their words to explain you that ghyb is also meant the items considered in this article...

The 5 things of surat Lluqman also...
There is no contradiction brother.

You have to understand the meanings, what is meant in the different places.
I hope you don't stay always in this state, asking always about it and not clearing your ideas...

I hope Allah guide you and us, give us sound knowledge and protect us.
Assalamu alaykum

oh so it is true that the 5 items are part of it, but i mean why do people emphasize it? Also since when was there a verse that said so i mean the keys to the ghayb being the 5 items are only a scholars idea. So the ghayb means things that cannot be seen. It doesn't mean unknown/unseen/enigma/infinite/absolute/beyond/*shudders* type thing eh?
 

besmiralalbani

Think for yourself
salam alaykum

Also since when was there a verse that said so i mean the keys to the ghayb being the 5 items are only a scholars idea

How can you say it is scholar idea when it is very clear in the Qur'an that:

Verily, Allah! With Him (Alone) is the knowledge of the Hour, He sends down the rain, and knows that which is in the wombs. No person knows what he will earn tomorrow, and no person knows in what land he will die. Verily, Allah is All-Knower, All-Aware (of things). (Luqman 31: 34)

It i clear that this 5 items are ghayb, we can not know.

It is clear also when Allah subhana wa ta'ala says:

This is the Book (the Quran), whereof there is no doubt, a guidance to those who are Al-Muttaqun [the pious and righteous persons who fear Allah much (abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which He has forbidden) and love Allah much (perform all kinds of good deeds which He has ordained)]. Who believe in the Ghaib... (Al Baqara 2: 2-3)

Now I have said to you before that, the revelation of the Qur'an is ghayb, Rasool salallahu alayhi wa sallam explained us the forms of revelation, but we can not understand it because only him used to receive it.

We ahve stories about the other prophets alayhi sallam, but we don't see them, we don't see the miracles that Allah gave to them as a proof for their people.

You don't see the Jannah the Jahanam, the Angels, so we believe in this things and this and others ARE GHAYB.

I don't think it is so difficult to realise brother.
This is a problem with you that you are ASKING ALWAYS THE SAME QUESTION, IN THE SAME WAY...

I said to you, we believe in this things because Allah the Allknower, the Wise tell us in the Qur'an.
In the Akhira inshaAllah we will know all this matters.
But it is not our duty to go into questions like this that are delicate and sensitive, BECAUSE talking about Ghayb without knowledge, I mean without being aware that can bring into deviation... Is dangerous for me and for us too.

I hope Allah subhana wa ta'ala make us understand Islam properly with sound knowledge and make us act upon Islam, by having SABR (patience) in the way of Islam.
 

True_Sultan

A logical believer
How can you say it is scholar idea when it is very clear in the Qur'an that:

Verily, Allah! With Him (Alone) is the knowledge of the Hour, He sends down the rain, and knows that which is in the wombs. No person knows what he will earn tomorrow, and no person knows in what land he will die. Verily, Allah is All-Knower, All-Aware (of things). (Luqman 31: 34)

It i clear that this 5 items are ghayb, we can not know.

It is clear also when Allah subhana wa ta'ala says:

This is the Book (the Quran), whereof there is no doubt, a guidance to those who are Al-Muttaqun [the pious and righteous persons who fear Allah much (abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which He has forbidden) and love Allah much (perform all kinds of good deeds which He has ordained)]. Who believe in the Ghaib... (Al Baqara 2: 2-3)

Now I have said to you before that, the revelation of the Qur'an is ghayb, Rasool salallahu alayhi wa sallam explained us the forms of revelation, but we can not understand it because only him used to receive it.

We ahve stories about the other prophets alayhi sallam, but we don't see them, we don't see the miracles that Allah gave to them as a proof for their people.

You don't see the Jannah the Jahanam, the Angels, so we believe in this things and this and others ARE GHAYB.

I don't think it is so difficult to realise brother.
This is a problem with you that you are ASKING ALWAYS THE SAME QUESTION, IN THE SAME WAY...

I said to you, we believe in this things because Allah the Allknower, the Wise tell us in the Qur'an.
In the Akhira inshaAllah we will know all this matters.
But it is not our duty to go into questions like this that are delicate and sensitive, BECAUSE talking about Ghayb without knowledge, I mean without being aware that can bring into deviation... Is dangerous for me and for us too.

I hope Allah subhana wa ta'ala make us understand Islam properly with sound knowledge and make us act upon Islam, by having SABR (patience) in the way of Islam.

well what i meant to say is that i know its the ghayb but how can it be the only thing ghayb or be its keys in any shape or form? Anyway my questions might seem to asked in the same manor but it is not. I mean i created this thread because i thought i had a misconception. If the ghayb only means unseen knowledge then thats not what my aspiration about because thats not it...i mean..its not the unseen/unknown/enigma/absolute/infinite/beyond/*shudders* type thing like a capacity to creation, absolute knowledge/power and other things that are hard to explain.....like argghhh
 

True_Sultan

A logical believer
well what i meant to say is that i know its the ghayb but how can it be the only thing ghayb or be its keys in any shape or form? Anyway my questions might seem to asked in the same manor but it is not. I mean i created this thread because i thought i had a misconception. If the ghayb only means unseen knowledge then thats not what my aspiration about because thats not it...i mean..its not the unseen/unknown/enigma/absolute/infinite/beyond/*shudders* type thing like a capacity to creation, absolute knowledge/power and other things that are hard to explain.....like argghhh

hey guys. my previous post has nothing wrong in it, I mean its true that the 5 items are ghayb but im sure it isn't the keys or the ghayb (beyond) in an absolute sense. I'm sure time travel and secret of creations is part of the absolute ghayb and its keys. I see what u mean..its just that its annoying when people say that the 5 items are the only things ghayb.... :S
 

a_stranger

Junior Member
:salam2:
Brother I admire your search for knoweldge but after a long experience I prefer to use my simple mind in the way that make me closer to Allah sobhanahu wa taala .....please read this verse:

3:179 Allah will not leave the believers in the state in which ye are now, until He separates what is evil from what is good nor will He disclose to you the secrets of the Unseen. But He chooses of His Messenger. (For the purpose) whom He pleases. So believe in Allah. And His apostles: And if ye believe and do right, ye have a reward without measure.
Quran

WE should be humble towards our Lord and never try to go beyound our limits and seek the reward without measure. :salah:

With regards
 

True_Sultan

A logical believer
:salam2:
Brother I admire your search for knoweldge but after a long experience I prefer to use my simple mind in the way that make me closer to Allah sobhanahu wa taala .....please read this verse:

3:179 Allah will not leave the believers in the state in which ye are now, until He separates what is evil from what is good nor will He disclose to you the secrets of the Unseen. But He chooses of His Messenger. (For the purpose) whom He pleases. So believe in Allah. And His apostles: And if ye believe and do right, ye have a reward without measure.
Quran

WE should be humble towards our Lord and never try to go beyound our limits and seek the reward without measure. :salah:

With regards

We should seek the reward without measure by having faith and doing good.

I agree with you, and that verse is right because like the heavens and hells are considered the "unseen" so when we die we can see them. But will God disclose the ghayb in the absolute sense or its keys and the beyonds and the secret to creation/destruction to us? That would be coool. But i love my aspiration to :)

Unless the keys to the ghayb or the ghayb in the absolute sense isn't the unseen/unknown/enigma/absolute/infinite/beyond/*shudders* type thing like a capacity to creation, absolute knowledge/power and other things that are hard to explain?
 

IHearIslam

make dua 4 ma finals
Assalaamu alaikum warahmatullah wabarakatuh,

Forgive me if I sound harsh by saying the following....I have read your other thread in which you constatnly talk about your "aspirations" the answers by my very patient brothers and sisters were clear...but it seems as if you're looking for something deeper in which we cannot provide answers for. You questioning things that are hidden from us for our own good and you try to run after the ghayb in which nobody! absolutely nobody knows about except our Lord the most high. One such question is this
But will God disclose the ghayb in the absolute sense or its keys and the beyonds and the secret to creation/destruction to us?
brother, with all due respect, I would love to know what makes you think anyone knows the answer to the question you've asked?......something to pondor upon.




Let's say you found out your aspirations, and you found all the answers, I ask what will that then do for your Imaan and how will that change anything?
This world is just countable days, years and decades the only thing you take with you is your good deeds, maybe as humans we should focus on how we can get closer to Allaah instead of questioning over and over again what we never find aswers to.

I ask Allaah's forgiveness if I said anything wrong, and whatever wrong I said is from my naf and anything good/beneficial that I said is from Allaah ta'ala and indeed all praises and thanks are due to Him and we shall all return to Him at the end.

Wasalam
 

a_stranger

Junior Member
:salam2:sister
Very well said , we should not waste our efforts and times only with what make us closer to Allah sobhanahu wa taalla.

وَيَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنِ الرُّوحِ قُلِ الرُّوحُ مِنْ أَمْرِ رَبِّي وَمَا أُوتِيتُم مِّن الْعِلْمِ إِلاَّ قَلِيلاً

Wayasaloonaka AAani alrroohi quli alrroohu min amri rabbee wama ooteetum mina alAAilmi illa qaleelan

17:85 They ask thee concerning the Spirit (of inspiration). Say: "The Spirit (cometh) by command of my Lord: of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you, (O men!)"
 

True_Sultan

A logical believer
Assalaamu alaikum warahmatullah wabarakatuh,

Forgive me if I sound harsh by saying the following....I have read your other thread in which you constatnly talk about your "aspirations" the answers by my very patient brothers and sisters were clear...but it seems as if you're looking for something deeper in which we cannot provide answers for. You questioning things that are hidden from us for our own good and you try to run after the ghayb in which nobody! absolutely nobody knows about except our Lord the most high. One such question is this brother, with all due respect, I would love to know what makes you think anyone knows the answer to the question you've asked?......something to pondor upon.




Let's say you found out your aspirations, and you found all the answers, I ask what will that then do for your Imaan and how will that change anything?
This world is just countable days, years and decades the only thing you take with you is your good deeds, maybe as humans we should focus on how we can get closer to Allaah instead of questioning over and over again what we never find aswers to.

I ask Allaah's forgiveness if I said anything wrong, and whatever wrong I said is from my naf and anything good/beneficial that I said is from Allaah ta'ala and indeed all praises and thanks are due to Him and we shall all return to Him at the end.

Wasalam

:salam2:sister
Very well said , we should not waste our efforts and times only with what make us closer to Allah sobhanahu wa taalla.

وَيَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنِ الرُّوحِ قُلِ الرُّوحُ مِنْ أَمْرِ رَبِّي وَمَا أُوتِيتُم مِّن الْعِلْمِ إِلاَّ قَلِيلاً

Wayasaloonaka AAani alrroohi quli alrroohu min amri rabbee wama ooteetum mina alAAilmi illa qaleelan

17:85 They ask thee concerning the Spirit (of inspiration). Say: "The Spirit (cometh) by command of my Lord: of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you, (O men!)"

I see your point sisters and brothers. I mean I agree to, but it sounds like you think I'm basing my whole life on this "aspiration" but that infact is false. I also try my best to strenghthn my imam and learn islam. I just contemplate on science/engineering/philosophy and my "aspiration" when I have free time, along with sports, gaming, music and movies. So yeah :)
 

True_Sultan

A logical believer
Inshallah brothers and sisters, I hope we will succeed in allahs test and stray away from shaitian, but answer this, have you guys talked to brother Ayman? Well he seems to be very knowledgable,While I was having an intellectual conversation with him, he says that even though the 5 items are part of the ghayb, he still says that it isn't the keys to the ghayb? I asked him that well in an hadeeth it says that the prophet says that the keys are but the 5 items. Brother ayman says that then that contradicts the quran as know one can know, the keys maybe absolute/infinite/beyond. So thats why I pertain my aspiration and the unseen/unknown/enigma/absolute/infinite/beyond/*shudders* type thing like a capacity to creation, absolute knowledge/power and other things that are hard to explain to the keys to the ghayb, but i do not deny the obvious in the quran and I still say that the 5 items are part of the ghayb to. So from what everyone has told me, I came to this conclusion, but for some reason people say i might be mistake, and i wanted to correct that so i reposted a thread on the ghayb sorry :)
 

MohammedMaksudul

May Allah Forgive us
:salam2:

Brother Sultan, you should know that we humans have very limited capabilities. From reading your posts, I understand that you are well familiar with all the things I am going to say. Anyways, we humans just see only a range of Electro-Magnetic radiation waves and not beyond that. We only hear a range of frequency of sound and not beyond that. The part of brain that shows us the image through the eye is in fact a dark place itself. So, if hypothetically our brain could be fed images through a computer, it would perceive that as reality. The punishment of Hell and the rewards of Heaven are beyond our scope to understand in this world. Have you ever thought, what infinite really is ? What endless happiness really is ? No matter how much you try, you will never be able to perceive that real experience of infinite because that knowledge has been reserved for us to know at the right time. That is in the hereafter. There are somethings which we should not worry much about or even think much about even if we love science, logic, philosophy, etc. When in this world we try to reason with the knowledge of unseen and things like that there is a high chance that we will deviate. As the other brothers and sisters have emphasized earlier, it is true that we should not discuss much about these things even for the sake of interest. I know you want to know all these, but everything has a right time. If you were asked at the age of 4 to solve a very complex mathematical problem (if only you were not gifted special talent by Allah) you would be Lost and probably scribble and make drawings on the paper. Everything has its right time and why do you even want to know what Allah will let you know in the hereafter. If you know it now then what is the point of being in hereafter ? This thing can go on and on brother but matters like trying to estimate the time of the Day of Judgement and then trying to discuss about Allah's knowledge of the Unseen and His Omnipotence are actually whispers from the shaytan. So, we shall all seek refuge from the shaytan in Allah, The Almighty, The Most Merciful.
 

True_Sultan

A logical believer
:salam2:

Brother Sultan, you should know that we humans have very limited capabilities. From reading your posts, I understand that you are well familiar with all the things I am going to say. Anyways, we humans just see only a range of Electro-Magnetic radiation waves and not beyond that. We only hear a range of frequency of sound and not beyond that. The part of brain that shows us the image through the eye is in fact a dark place itself. So, if hypothetically our brain could be fed images through a computer, it would perceive that as reality. The punishment of Hell and the rewards of Heaven are beyond our scope to understand in this world. Have you ever thought, what infinite really is ? What endless happiness really is ? No matter how much you try, you will never be able to perceive that real experience of infinite because that knowledge has been reserved for us to know at the right time. That is in the hereafter. There are somethings which we should not worry much about or even think much about even if we love science, logic, philosophy, etc. When in this world we try to reason with the knowledge of unseen and things like that there is a high chance that we will deviate. As the other brothers and sisters have emphasized earlier, it is true that we should not discuss much about these things even for the sake of interest. I know you want to know all these, but everything has a right time. If you were asked at the age of 4 to solve a very complex mathematical problem (if only you were not gifted special talent by Allah) you would be Lost and probably scribble and make drawings on the paper. Everything has its right time and why do you even want to know what Allah will let you know in the hereafter. If you know it now then what is the point of being in hereafter ? This thing can go on and on brother but matters like trying to estimate the time of the Day of Judgement and then trying to discuss about Allah's knowledge of the Unseen and His Omnipotence are actually whispers from the shaytan. So, we shall all seek refuge from the shaytan in Allah, The Almighty, The Most Merciful.


You are actually right brother, we will know some of it due in time, and I can't wait for it, but what justification can u give its shaitains wisper, I always ask allah to help me ignore shaitain and prayer and pray about my aspiration, so yeah. Also the infinite bliss and infinite punishment isn't the only infinite bro ;)

Anyway thanks for your post, I like your post :)
 

MohammedMaksudul

May Allah Forgive us
You are actually right brother, we will know some of it due in time, and I can't wait for it, but what justification can u give its shaitains wisper, I always ask allah to help me ignore shaitain and prayer and pray about my aspiration, so yeah. Also the infinite bliss and infinite punishment isn't the only infinite bro ;)

Anyway thanks for your post, I like your post :)

:salam2:

Alhamdulillah and JazakAllahu Khair brother. Brother as far as my little knowledge goes, shaytan deviates man not in a single step but in many. Shaytan will not go to a man who is very obedient towards Allah and devoted to His religion and whisper him to go to a bar or a similar place and something really bad. Because, he knows that if he does that it is not going to work. So, what he does is that he whispers the man things which seem logical and all halal to do but is either doubtful/unclear or is of lesser value in terms of good deeds. So, by taking a series of many of these small steps he deviates us. Now, if somebody wonders about the ghayb it has high chances that the shaytan will come and whisper to him things, which seem logical and all halal but is a point of deviation. You know brother if an object is moving in a straight line and another external force is applied which turns the objects direction of movement only by as little as by an angle of 1 degree; the object will far deviate away from its destination on the straight line on the long run. Even the slightest of deviation from the path will eventually in long run take an object away from the straight path. And yes we should always seek refuge in Allah from shaytan. But this shaytan is very treacherous and has thousands of years of experience. He is very witty and manages to get to us. For example, usually before going to sleep I recite Suras and make dua to Allah to protect me from the shaytan. Then I go to sleep and sleep peacefully untill I wake up again in the middle of the night due to pressure in the bladder. Usually due to the depth of the sleep, I go and get done as fast as possible and come back to sleep without doing ablution and making duas. This is when shaytan gets me and attacks me with weird dreams and other bad stuffs. This is just one example and from my experience. May Allah guide us all and I hope that I have been able to make it justified enough for you. But then again I am no scholar and posses no knowledge at all, so you might want to go to the Ulama. May Allah forgive us all.
 

True_Sultan

A logical believer
:salam2:

Alhamdulillah and JazakAllahu Khair brother. Brother as far as my little knowledge goes, shaytan deviates man not in a single step but in many. Shaytan will not go to a man who is very obedient towards Allah and devoted to His religion and whisper him to go to a bar or a similar place and something really bad. Because, he knows that if he does that it is not going to work. So, what he does is that he whispers the man things which seem logical and all halal to do but is either doubtful/unclear or is of lesser value in terms of good deeds. So, by taking a series of many of these small steps he deviates us. Now, if somebody wonders about the ghayb it has high chances that the shaytan will come and whisper to him things, which seem logical and all halal but is a point of deviation. You know brother if an object is moving in a straight line and another external force is applied which turns the objects direction of movement only by as little as by an angle of 1 degree; the object will far deviate away from its destination on the straight line on the long run. Even the slightest of deviation from the path will eventually in long run take an object away from the straight path. And yes we should always seek refuge in Allah from shaytan. But this shaytan is very treacherous and has thousands of years of experience. He is very witty and manages to get to us. For example, usually before going to sleep I recite Suras and make dua to Allah to protect me from the shaytan. Then I go to sleep and sleep peacefully untill I wake up again in the middle of the night due to pressure in the bladder. Usually due to the depth of the sleep, I go and get done as fast as possible and come back to sleep without doing ablution and making duas. This is when shaytan gets me and attacks me with weird dreams and other bad stuffs. This is just one example and from my experience. May Allah guide us all and I hope that I have been able to make it justified enough for you. But then again I am no scholar and posses no knowledge at all, so you might want to go to the Ulama. May Allah forgive us all.

True but sometimes i feel that my aspiration nd the unknown isn't the ghayb but something else :p
 

True_Sultan

A logical believer
True but sometimes i feel that my aspiration nd the unknown isn't the ghayb but something else :p

damn my aspiration is messed up guys...i just don't know, its just an instinct...a feelling. Anyway do you guys have any aspirations and dreams you base on religion or anything at the caliber of mine, because really...all i've been doing is talking about myself :p thats no fair right :lol: ;)

:shake:

:SMILY303:
 
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