Discussion on Deobandis

mohammadyunus

Junior Member
First and foremost, Women are not supposed to pray in the mosque. Its better for them if they pray at home. There are numerous rulings of the darul ulooms in this regards.
Secondly, I have told it before here on TTI, that most of the members being from america, they hardly have any contact with the ulemas of Nizamuddin and Deoband.
Remember, its one thing to read from the books and completely different to personally listen from a shaikh.
TTI members are very far away from the illustrious ulemas of our age. Thats the problem.
Aapa, I wish to sincerely advice you to stay with aalimas of the subcontinent and spend time with the masturat jamaat.
The taqwa of Allahwallas you will encounter in india,pakistan is something you will never experience in america.
 

mohammadyunus

Junior Member
And one last thing, no one on TTI is a graduate of darul ulooms. Nor does anyone have any khilafate conferred upon them. So how can we be qualified enough to take any decisions?
whats IMPORTANT is to keep in touch with the akabareens of the subcontinent. The allahwallas have the noor of taqwa in their hearts. YOU MUST GET IN TOUCH WITH THEM FOR OUR ISLAH.
 

ShahnazZ

Striving2BeAStranger
Secondly, I have told it before here on TTI, that most of the members being from america, they hardly have any contact with the ulemas of Nizamuddin and Deoband. The taqwa of Allahwallas you will encounter in india,pakistan is something you will never experience in america.

Yes and alhamdulillah for that. Why would we want to follow the people of bid'ah? In that regard, Allah has protected us.

Deobandis

Praise be to Allaah.

The Deobandis are one of the groups of Muslims. This group is connected to and named after the University of Deoband – Dar al-Uloom – in India. It is an intellectual school of thought that is deeply rooted, and everyone who graduated from that university was influenced by its academic characteristics, so that they became known as Deobandis.

The University of Deoband was founded by a group of Indian ‘ulamaa’ (scholars) after the British had put a stop to the Islamic revolution in India in 1857 CE. Its establishment was a strong reaction against western advancement and its materialistic civilization in the Indian Subcontinent, aimed at saving the Muslims from the dangers of these circumstances, especially when Delhi, the capital, had been destroyed following the revolution and the British had taken full control of it. The scholars feared that their religion might be assimilated, so Shaykh Imdaadullaah al-Muhaajir al-Makki and his student Shaykh Muhammad Qaasim al-Nanatuwi, and their companions, drew up a plan to protect Islam and its teachings. They thought that the solution was to establish religious schools and Islamic centers, thus al-Madrasah al-Islamiyyah al-Arabiyyah was established in Deoband as a center for Islam and Sharee’ah in India at the time of British rule.

The most prominent figures of this intellectual school:

1- Muhammad Qaasim

2- Rasheed Ahmad al-Kankoohi

3- Husayn Ahmad al-Madani

4- Muhammad Anwaar Shah al-Kashmiri

5- Abu’l-Hasan al-Nadvi

6- Al-Muhaddith Habeeb al-Rahmaan al-A’zami

Thoughts and beliefs

With regard to basic tenets of belief (‘aqeedah), they follow the madhhab of Abu Mansoor al-Maatreedi.

They follow the madhhab of Imaam Abu Haneefah with regard to fiqh and minor issues.

They follow the Sufi tareeqahs of the Naqshbandiyyah, Chishtiyyah, Qaadiriyyah and Saharwardiyyah with regard to spiritual development.

The thoughts and principles of the Deobandi school may be summed up as follows:

- Preserving the teachings of Islam and its strength and rituals.

- Spreading Islam and resisting destructive schools of thought and missionary activity.

- Spreading Islamic culture and resisting the invading British culture.

- Paying attention to spreading the Arabic language because it is the means of benefiting from the sources of Islamic sharee’ah.

- Combining reason and emotion, and knowledge and spirituality.

See al-Mawsoo’ah al-Muyassarah fil Adyaan wal Madhaahib (1/308).

Because the Deobandis follow the Maatreedi madhhab with regard to belief (‘aqeedah), we have to define what al-Maatreediyyah is:

This is a philosophical (kalaami) group which is named after Abu Mansoor al-Maatreedi. It is based on using rational and philosophical proof and evidence in disputes with opponents from among the Mu’tazilah, Jahamiyyah and others to establish the truths of religion and Islamic ‘aqeedah (belief). With regard to sources, the Maatreediyyah divide the bases of religion into two categories depending on the source:

1 – Divine or rational: these are matters which are established independently by reason and the reports follow that. This includes issues of Tawheed and the Divine attributes.

2 – Legislative matters or transmitted reports, These are matters which reason states may or may not exist, but there is no way to prove rationally that they exist, such as Prophethood, the torment of the grave and issues of the Hereafter. It should be noted that some of them regarded Prophethood as coming under the heading of rational issues.

It is obvious that this is contradictory to the methodology of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah, because the Qur’aan, Sunnah and consensus of the Sahaabah are the sources of guidance in their view. This is in addition to their bid’ah (innovation) of dividing the sources of religion into rational matters vs. transmitted reports, which was based on the false notion of the philosophers who assumed that the religious texts contradict reason, so they tried to mediate between reason and the transmitted reports. This led them to force reason into fields where it has no place, so they came up with false rulings which contradicted sharee’ah, and that led them to say that they did not know what the texts mean and that only Allaah knows their meaning, or to misinterpret them altogether. In the view of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah, on the other hand, there is no contradiction between sound reason and the sound transmitted reports.

See al-Mawsoo’ah al-Muyassarah fi’l-Adyaan wa’l-Madhaahib al-Mu’aasirah, 1/99

Attitude of Ahl al-Sunnah towards the Maatreediyyah

It was narrated from the Prophet SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) that this ummah would split into seventy-three sects, all of which would be in the Fire apart from one. The Prophet SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) explained that the saved group is the Jamaa’ah, which is the group that follows the same path as the Messenger SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and his Companions.

Undoubtedly Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah, who adhere to the Qur’aan and Sunnah in terms of both knowledge and actions, are the saved group, and this description applies to them, i.e., they adhere to that which the Messenger SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and his Companions adhered to in terms of knowledge and actions.

It is not sufficient for an individual or group merely to claim to belong to the Sunnah whilst going against the methodology of the salaf, namely the Sahaabah and Taabi’een. Rather it is essential to adhere to their methodology in knowledge, action, approach and spiritual development.

The Maatreediyyah are one of the groups whose opinions include true and false views, and some things that go against the Sunnah. It is known that these groups vary with regard to the truth, how near or far they are; the closer they are to the Sunnah, the closer they are to the truth and the right way. Among them are some who went against the Sunnah with regard to basic principles, and some who went against the Sunnah with regard to more subtle issues. There are some who refuted other groups who are farther away from the Sunnah, so they are to be praised with regard to their refutation of falsehood and what they have said of truth, but they have overstepped the mark in so far as they have rejected part of the truth and gone along with some falsehood. So they have refuted a serious bid’ah by means of a lesser bid’ah, and refuted falsehood with a lesser form of falsehood. This is the case with most of the philosophers (ahl al-kalaam) who claim to belong to Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah…”

(From the words of Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah, al-Fataawa, 1/348).

There remains one important question to be answered, which is: what is our duty towards the Maatreediyyah and groups who hold similar beliefs such as the Deobandis and others?

The answer varies according to differences in the persons involved.

If someone is stubborn and propagates his bid’ah, then we must warn others about him and explain where he has gone wrong and deviated. But if he does not propagate his bid’ah and it is clear from his words and actions that he is seeking the truth and striving for that purpose, then we should advise him and explain to him what is wrong with this belief, and guide him in a manner that is better; perhaps Allaah will bring him back to the truth. This advice is included in the words of the Prophet SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “Religion is sincerity (or sincere advice).” We [the Sahabah] asked, “To whom?” He said, “To Allaah and His Book, and His Messenger, and to the leaders of the Muslims and their common folk.”

(Narrated by Muslim, 55).


Islam Q&A

http://islam-qa.com/en/ref/22473/Deoband
 

John Smith

Junior Member
Am I right in reading that the Deobandi sect is ok to follow or acceptable?

These are the guys with the Green Turbans?
 

slaveofAllah88

Slave of Allah (swt)
Am I right in reading that the Deobandi sect is ok to follow or acceptable?

These are the guys with the Green Turbans?

aslam o aliakum wa rahmatuAllahi wa barakatuhu

No green turbans are the brelvi and they are not ok to follow, they have wrong aqeedah (creed), most deviant being grave worship, asking from saints, asking from dead, celebrating mawlid, and they say that Prophet (PBUH) was a noor (light). thats just somethings i know.

Deobandi on the other hand is a school of thought primarily found in Pakistan and India, the tableeghi people mostly adhere to that school of thought, and this videos explains things quiet well about them

[video=youtube;rfeSJlONuLI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfeSJlONuLI[/video]

general, deoband some i have heard from people that their aqeedah is not correct but the deobandi i spoke to have refuted that and said that the points made about them (major one being they believe Allah (swt) is everywhere) but deobandi says no we believe Allah (swt) above the heaven on his throne , which is the aqeedah of ahle sunnah wa jammat. Allahu Alam (Allah knows best)

I would advice stick with the well known ulemas of today and stay away from things in which there is doubt. InshAllah
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam alaikum,

Was the deobandi not an intellectual movement to rid Islam of the cultural mishmash that had developed over time in India. It was a political movement trying to awaken Muslims to fight for a Muslim homeland.

Was not Iqbal one of the best of the deobandi?


As for the sister who is upset about the Syrian thread. It would make more sense to either have your husband speak for himself and/or both respond to the Israel /Syria thread. Given the events of today and tonight this one is a no-brainer.

What the brothers did has nothing to do with Syria. They compromised the website and members of the website in their haste.

Lets concentrate on the Gaza, please.
 

al-fajr

...ism..schism
Staff member
First and foremost, Women are not supposed to pray in the mosque. Its better for them if they pray at home. There are numerous rulings of the darul ulooms in this regards.
Secondly, I have told it before here on TTI, that most of the members being from america, they hardly have any contact with the ulemas of Nizamuddin and Deoband.
Remember, its one thing to read from the books and completely different to personally listen from a shaikh.
TTI members are very far away from the illustrious ulemas of our age. Thats the problem.
Aapa, I wish to sincerely advice you to stay with aalimas of the subcontinent and spend time with the masturat jamaat.
The taqwa of Allahwallas you will encounter in india,pakistan is something you will never experience in america.
How patronising, you're not aware of the Darul Ulooms in the UK, then? Bury, Leicester are two such examples, just to make a point.

There is massive difference between saying it is better for a woman to pray in her home (which is perfectly true) and saying 'women are not supposed to pray in the masjid', don't confuse this, the second point is quite simply an addition of your own.
 

slaveofAllah88

Slave of Allah (swt)
Assalaam alaikum,

Was the deobandi not an intellectual movement to rid Islam of the cultural mishmash that had developed over time in India. It was a political movement trying to awaken Muslims to fight for a Muslim homeland.

Was not Iqbal one of the best of the deobandi?


As for the sister who is upset about the Syrian thread. It would make more sense to either have your husband speak for himself and/or both respond to the Israel /Syria thread. Given the events of today and tonight this one is a no-brainer.

What the brothers did has nothing to do with Syria. They compromised the website and members of the website in their haste.

Lets concentrate on the Gaza, please.

walaikum salam

yes the history of the school
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darul_Uloom_Deoband

i don't want to say anything about them the brother who knows them personally would know better, i have met mashAllah some amazing people who have studied from deobandi scholars, living in North America i haven't had much contact with them, but i know like sister al-fajr mentioned they have many schools in UK.

Unfortunately there is so much rivalry usually between school of deoband and ahle hadeeth (also called salafi) its mind boggling so i try to stay away from such arguements ....
 

al-fajr

...ism..schism
Staff member
Assalamu'alaykum,

Posts from the other thread moved.

This thread is as the title states, please keep within the expected boundaries of adab.
 

al-fajr

...ism..schism
Staff member
Yes and alhamdulillah for that. Why would we want to follow the people of bid'ah? In that regard, Allah has protected us.

Ukhti, I would actually credit deobandis in their tendency to stay well clear of much of the bid'ah practised by the barelwi cult, they don't fair too badly when it comes to bid'ah, but where it gets slippery is `Aqeedah which as your post states is matureedi generally speaking. With that said, its important to note that there are deobandis who reject matureedi beliefs too.

Wa-salam.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam alaikum,


For the sake of knowledge and knowledge only I ask these questions.

I have read, over the years, that the Taliban have been greatly influenced by the Deobandi. Is that true.

And how did the Pakistani government remove itself from the same movement that brought about its establishment and nationhood.

Great video. Simple and sweet.

Ok..I read that Pakistani is becoming more Shia?

What elements of the Deobandi are Sufi?

The link stated the Deobandi are not political anymore, is that a fact?
 

ShahnazZ

Striving2BeAStranger
Ukhti, I would actually credit deobandis in their tendency to stay well clear of much of the bid'ah practised by the barelwi cult, they don't fair too badly when it comes to bid'ah, but where it gets slippery is `Aqeedah which as your post states is matureedi generally speaking. With that said, its important to note that there are deobandis who reject matureedi beliefs too.

Wa-salam.

A sect within a sect, why not? And the numbers just keep growing.

JazakAllah khair for the clarification.
 

slaveofAllah88

Slave of Allah (swt)
Ukhti, I would actually credit deobandis in their tendency to stay well clear of much of the bid'ah practised by the barelwi cult, they don't fair too badly when it comes to bid'ah, but where it gets slippery is `Aqeedah which as your post states is matureedi generally speaking. With that said, its important to note that there are deobandis who reject matureedi beliefs too.

Wa-salam.

aslam o alaikum

JazakAllah khair for this ukhti, i agree with this, actually in deoband you will meet a really wide variety of people, they are really common in punjab pakistan, and i have seen most of them stay away from grave worship, mawlid, alot of the common practices bidah. and study the aqeedah from the famous book "creed of imam tawawi", thats why i wouldn't agree with everything islamqa has said cause i know there are people who i know that have sound aqeedah, they might differ on fiqh issues because most of them adhering to fiqh of imam abu hanifa (rahmatuAllah)
but Allah (swt) knows best but i wont label them all under one category for sure
 

Shak78

Junior Member
Women are not supposed to pray at the Mosque...since when. While it is better if we pray at home we have every right to pray at the masjid. So tired of cultural crap being mixed in with Islam.
 

kiana

Junior Member
Women are not supposed to pray at the Mosque...since when. While it is better if we pray at home we have every right to pray at the masjid. So tired of cultural crap being mixed in with Islam.

in real muslim society, women have to pray at home but here american converts want to change islam the way they want it so they force masjids to include women. in California, american converts even take it far enough to have female imams. this is not islam!

http://www.campusalam.org/contributions/2009/Jul/08/female-imams-equal-before-god.html
 

alf2

Islam is a way of life
in real muslim society, women have to pray at home but here american converts want to change islam the way they want it so they force masjids to include women. in California, american converts even take it far enough to have female imams. this is not islam!

http://www.campusalam.org/contributions/2009/Jul/08/female-imams-equal-before-god.html

Sister,

Have you ever lived in the West? I will tell you why American Muslim women go to the masjid. Not only to pray, but we also go between prayers because of the community. Sometimes where I live, If I dont go the Masjid, I wont see another Muslim for weeks, if not MONTHS. Can you imagine not seeing another Muslim for a month? It's hard dear sister.

But I do believe women should be separated from men. At my masjid's we have a different WING and entrance and parking area to the men. And many of the females wear Niqab. I really dont see how this can be haraaam or fitnah.

And I am an American convert, thank you for making me feel horrible.
 

Shak78

Junior Member
in real muslim society, women have to pray at home but here american converts want to change islam the way they want it so they force masjids to include women. in California, american converts even take it far enough to have female imams. this is not islam!

http://www.campusalam.org/contributions/2009/Jul/08/female-imams-equal-before-god.html

I never said anything about Female Imams and that is wrong, however women ARE allowed to pray at the masjid. It's a cultural thing to keep women from the masjid if they so choose.

http://www.allaahuakbar.net/misconceptions/55.htm

Q55. Why are women not allowed in the mosque?
Answer.
1. There is not a single verse in the Qur’an which prohibits women from entering the mosque and there is no single authentic Hadeeth which I know of which states that the Prophet (pbuh) prevented or forbade women from going to the mosque.

There is only one Hadeeth which could be misunderstood to mean that women should not go to the mosque. That Hadeeth is as follows: ‘The prayer of women is better in their house than in the mosque and the prayer of women is better in their rooms than in their house.’

If you base your conclusion only on this single Hadeeth, then you may wrongly conclude that it is not advisable or preferable for women to go to the mosque. As I mentioned earlier, your conclusion cannot be based only on one Hadeeth neglecting or ignoring all the other Ahaadeeth. The context of the Hadeeth is also very important.

The Prophet (pbuh) said that if a person prays in the mosque he gets 27 times more blessings (Sawab). Some women argued that they had infants at home and other household work and therefore could not go to the mosque. Thus the men have a greater advantage than women for receiving such blessings. It is then that the Prophet said the above Hadeeth that ‘The prayer of women is better in their house than in the mosque and the prayer of women is better in their rooms than in their house’.

Hence, the conclusion is that in situations where women have infants and household work, which too is an important duty that cannot be neglected, women would not be deprived of the sawab (blessings) if they pray in their own house.

2. There are several Ahaadeeth which prove that both men and women went to the mosque during the life of the prophet:

(i) The Prophet said, ‘Do not prevent the female servants of Allaah from going to the mosque of Allaah.’

(ii) And husbands were specifically told by him, " When your women folk ask you for permission to attend the mosque, do not prevent them." (Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book of Salaah, Chapter 80, Hadith No. 832)

(iii) From the time the Prophet (pbuh) entered Madeenah, after Hijra, till his demise, he never prevented women from entering the mosque.

(iv) During the time of the Prophet (pbuh), women not only went to the mosque for prayer but also for religious education and literary discussions as the mosque was the centre of community. Several Ahaadeeth tell us that the Prophet (pbuh) addressed people in the mosque, and the audience consisted of both Muslim men and women, and women many a times asked questions to the Prophet (pbuh) in the mosque.

(v) Even at the time of Hazrat Umar (R) women went to the mosque. The famous incident in which a lady from the back seat of the mosque objected to Hazrat Umar (R) considering an upper limit to meher, is very well known.

(vi) During the Prophet’s (pbuh) time, mosques had separate entrances for ladies. Women filled the mosques from behind while men had separate entrances and filled the mosques from the front. In between the two sections were children who acted as a buffer zone.

(vii) It is reported by Abu Husainah that the Prophet (Pbuh) said: "The best row for men is the first, and the worst for them is the last. The best row for women is the last, and the worst is the first." (Muslim)

3. Islaam permits women to pray in mosques. Ladies should have separate and equal facilities. Islam does not permit the intermingling of sexes. Otherwise there will be a similar scene in mosques like other places of worship where some people even come for ‘bird watching’ and eve teasing.

4. In recent times, women are not allowed in mosques in a very few countries especially in India and the neighbouring countries. Otherwise in most of the other countries, women are allowed in mosques. Women are allowed in mosques in Saudi Arabia, in U.A.E, in Egypt, in U.S.A, in England, etc. They are also allowed in the Haram Shareef in Makkah and in Masjid-e-Nabawi in Madeenah.

Allahamdulillah, the trend is now changing in India . We have several mosques in India and a few in Mumbai which allow women to pray in mosques (masaajid).
 

kiana

Junior Member
Sister,

Have you ever lived in the West? I will tell you why American Muslim women go to the masjid. Not only to pray, but we also go between prayers because of the community. Sometimes where I live, If I dont go the Masjid, I wont see another Muslim for weeks, if not MONTHS. Can you imagine not seeing another Muslim for a month? It's hard dear sister.

But I do believe women should be separated from men. At my masjid's we have a different WING and entrance and parking area to the men. And many of the females wear Niqab. I really dont see how this can be haraaam or fitnah.

And I am an American convert, thank you for making me feel horrible.

my beautiful sister forgive me, i not know! i watch saudi quran tv and a sheikh said that! forgiv me
 

Shak78

Junior Member
my beautiful sister forgive me, i not know! i watch saudi quran tv and a sheikh said that! forgiv me

It's ok sister, you were mis-informed which happens and that is why as Muslims we must always seek knowledge. You are my sister and I am happy to help and hope if I am ever wrong someone will show me the correct path!
 
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