Discussion on Deobandis

[Aapa]

Assalaam alaikum,

No, sister. The topic is not being derailed. The Deobandi' is not a sect. They started as a movement to correct the actions of the Muslims in India under the British Raj. In simplest terms they saw the need for Muslims to go back to the basics of the Sunnah and become a community of Believers.

 

[mohammadyunus]

Assalaam alaikum,

No, sister. The topic is not being derailed. The Deobandi' is not a sect. They started as a movement to correct the actions of the Muslims in India under the British Raj. In simplest terms they saw the need for Muslims to go back to the basics of the Sunnah and become a community of Believers.

Thats correct. Will you kindly update me about the links you said you would go through ??

 

[Ershad]

Thats correct. Will you kindly update me about the links you said you would go through ??

Brother, according to you Deobandis are Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'h. Okay. Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'h do not believe in getting any reward or benefit through graves of saints. Do you agree with this?

If so, why does The Darul Ifta of Deoband give fatwa that it does ?

http://darulifta-deoband.org/showuserview.do?function=answerView&all=en&id=2043

Question: 2043

Do we get any benefits by doing spiritual communion (Muraqiba) at the graves of saints?
Answer:
(Fatwa: 519/519=L)



Those who are perfect and well versed, they get benefit. Every layman is not allowed to do so; rather he is feared to be misled.

Allah (Subhana Wa Ta'ala) knows Best

Darul Ifta,
Darul Uloom Deoband

This is a issue of aqeedah. If I am wrong, please correct me.

And here:

http://darulifta-deoband.org/showuserview.do?function=answerView&all=en&id=37557

Question: 37557

Is it allowed to say in front of grave of Prophet (PBUH) to make dua for forgiveness to Allah (SWT)? Can I ask to the holy Prophet (PBUH) to make dua to Allah (SWT) when I am anywhere in home?
Answer: 37557

(Fatwa: 54/45/N=1433)

(1) Yes, it is allowed to supplicate Allah with the wasilah of the holy Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم) for oneself, for one's parents etc for forgiveness or whatsoever. Rather it is mustahab to supplicate there, because it is a place where supplications are accepted. The scholars of Fiqh have mentioned it in the etiquettes of ziyarah.
(2) One may request the holy Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم) for dua at his holy grave, rather it is also mustahab. The scholars have mentioned it as well. But one cannot request the holy Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم) for dua while he is away from the holy grave, because the holy Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم) is not omnipresent, it is only Almighty Allah who is Omnipresent.

Allah (Subhana Wa Ta'ala) knows Best

Darul Ifta,
Darul Uloom Deoband

These things are something I have never believed in and considered to be deviance according to scholars. Then how can you defend the deoband brother? Am I missing something?

 

[mohammadyunus]

Brother, according to you Deobandis are Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'h. Okay. Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'h do not believe in getting any reward or benefit through graves of saints. Do you agree with this?

If so, why does The Darul Ifta of Deoband give fatwa that it does ?

http://darulifta-deoband.org/showuserview.do?function=answerView&all=en&id=2043



This is a issue of aqeedah. If I am wrong, please correct me.

And here:

http://darulifta-deoband.org/showuserview.do?function=answerView&all=en&id=37557



These things are something I have never believed in and considered to be deviance according to scholars. Then how can you defend the deoband brother? Am I missing something?

Grave worshipping is shirk and therefore haraam. It is agreed upon. The reason for the answer that darulifta gives to the first question is a person with insufficient knowledge can easily be misguided. We can ask Allah through the wasilah of pious saints and the best being through the wasilah of our nabi alayhi salaam. It isnt allowed to ask from the person who has passed away.
The reason for the answer to the second question is straightforward. Nabi alayhi salaam is alive in his grave and as such when a person conveys salaam standing in front of rodha mubarak he can hear us.
Do not be skeptical. The aqeedah is in perfectly in accordance with ahle sunnah wal jamaat. For more info please contact an aalim.

 

[Aisya al-Humaira]

We can ask Allah through the wasilah of pious saints and the best being through the wasilah of our nabi alayhi salaam.

So basically you're saying tawassul to pious saints are permissible? Do you mind listing who are the pious saints?

You are aware of the ayaat in the Qur`an that we are to ask only from Allaah, right? [If you're not aware of it, I'll quote it here later. In a rush now].

Brother, as I mentioned previously, you keep giving your statements without bringing the evidences. You know that people can question the trustworthiness when the source isn't brought along, do you?

 

[mohammadyunus]

So basically you're saying tawassul to pious saints are permissible? Do you mind listing who are the pious saints?

You are aware of the ayaat in the Qur`an that we are to ask only from Allaah, right? [If you're not aware of it, I'll quote it here later. In a rush now].

Brother, as I mentioned previously, you keep giving your statements without bringing the evidences. You know that people can question the trustworthiness when the source isn't brought along, do you?

did i say that you can ask from others besides Allah ?? NO!!!!!
Thats shirk. I have stated that.
What i said is that one can make a dua by giving wasilah of pious saints. They can be from the sahabas, the tabein, taba tabein and so forth right to the pious people of our times.
Asking from anyone except Allah is haraam but asking from Allah through wasilah is allowed.
If you care, i am STRICTLY against any kind of bidah in religion. I write to share the correct knowledge of deen because otherwise i know i will be held accountable if i spread misinformation.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam alaikum,

Brother,

I just clicked on the links you posted.

I think for the sake of communication it is imperative that we understand the Deobandi tried to remove saint worship. The members are asking for clarification on that.

 

[Tabassum07]

:salam2:

Brother, what exactly do you mean by "wasilah"?

 

[Ershad]

did i say that you can ask from others besides Allah ?? NO!!!!!
Thats shirk. I have stated that.
What i said is that one can make a dua by giving wasilah of pious saints. They can be from the sahabas, the tabein, taba tabein and so forth right to the pious people of our times.
Asking from anyone except Allah is haraam but asking from Allah through wasilah is allowed.
If you care, i am STRICTLY against any kind of bidah in religion. I write to share the correct knowledge of deen because otherwise i know i will be held accountable if i spread misinformation.

Brother,

My question is quite straightforward. You seem to be avoiding the problematic areas of deoband. Here is the fatwa in question:

Question: 2043

Do we get any benefits by doing spiritual communion (Muraqiba) at the graves of saints?
Answer:
(Fatwa: 519/519=L)



Those who are perfect and well versed, they get benefit. Every layman is not allowed to do so; rather he is feared to be misled.

Allah (Subhana Wa Ta'ala) knows Best

Darul Ifta,
Darul Uloom Deoband

Now, let alone layman, please explain me what kind of benefit will the "perfect and the well versed" get from the graves of saints? Or be it Sahaba, taabien or even the Prophets, knowing that they are all dead and they cannot benefit us in this life on earth in form of any intercession with Allah. And what evidence is there for this form of worship from Qur'an and Sunnah?

 

[hayat84]

pardon me if I'm out of topic,does this discussion really interest each one of you,or is it just one thread more to increase the list?this is just my own impression,but it could be a good thing if the discussion were adressed to some other topics,like the experiences we have in our country being muslims among the kafir,or how to behave in certain circumstances,instead of talking what it shouldn't belong to us.because as it exists deobandis,there are shiits,sufists.....but we have to follow the Sunnah,and as sunnih muslima,I feel a little confused.if one day someone wants to becaome muslim,which path will he follow?a muslim is a muslim,a deobandi is just a name............Please,dears,forgive my exprerssion,I don't know how to explain better what I want to say,I hope this discussion will reach the goal you all are searching for.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam alaikum,

Sister,

I can only answer you from a very personal perspective. I am intrigued by Muslim thought. It fascinates me how the mind when it is tested has to turn to the Love of Allah.
In India before the conception of Pakistan there were men who dedicated their lives to purging out of Islam many elements that had filtered in from living amongst the Hindus. They wanted Muslims to remember the correct path.
This thread is a discussion about the history and the current affairs of the Deobandi.


Help me out, I need a historical response, please. Why was India such a ripe land for Sufi thought. Let's start there. And let us not bash anyone.

 

[mohammadyunus]

go through this -
http://books.themajlis.net/node/496
and
http://www.central-mosque.com/biographies/
and
http://www.central-mosque.com/biographies/milyas.htm

 

[Ershad]

There has been a detailed discussion in TTI before on this - http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64322 . There is some good information on Deoband by brother abubaseer.

 

[Tabassum07]

:salam2:

Once again, "wasilah"... what does it mean?

EDITED

 

[mohammadyunus]

:salam2:

Once again, "wasilah"... what does it mean?

Sufi-ism is a bit like Hinduism, isn't it? There are levels you have to attain to get higher and higher and then you get the highest level of Wusool which is unification of soul and God. Astaghfirullah!

But Hindu Brahmanism is the same concept. Sufi concepts of Fanaa and Wusool are similar to Hindu's Moksh and Nirvana. Maybe that's why it appealed to India so much? This is just hypothetical thinking. And please don't think how come I know so much about Sufism... I learnt about it during my courses at Islamic Online University. They had a whole chapter on learning why Sufism was wrong and deviant.

You are so wrong. You must be nuts to be comparing sufism to hinduism. Little knowledge is such a dangerous thing. Shooting off your mouth when you dont know anything is unpardonable.
I accept that there are lots of fake shaikhs out there that give sufism a bad name. The biggest sufi saint of india is Hazrat Moinuddin Chisti. What will you call him ? A hindu ? Deviant muslim ?

The main aim of sufism is purification of soul.
GO THROUGH THE LINKS I HAVE PROVIDED. LISTEN TO THE BAYANS. You are so much in need of it.
May Allah pardon you for your absurd claims.

 

[mohammadyunus]

sister, read this completely and only than reply.
http://www.khanqah.org/books/show/reality-of-tasawwuf

 

[mohammadyunus]

"wasilah"... what does it mean?

wasilah is defined as a "means of seeking approach or nearness to".
Asking from Allah THROUGH the prophet is wasilah. Asking FROM prophets or saints is SHIRK.

both Tawassul and Wasilah are from the same root. When we make Tawassul, it means that we seek the Mercy of Allah by resorting to a connection who was more obedient toward Allah and, as a result, Allah answers his/her prayers faster than us. Allah may forgive us for the credit and the honor of that man/woman.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam alaikum,

Nobody is nuts brother. We are all trying to learn.

I made the original claim believing that the preponderance of Sufism in India maybe attributed to the fact that it made Islam more appealing in the land of the Hindus.

I will respond later when I have time to collect my thoughts.

The connection between a soul and Allah is between the soul and Allah. We do not know the intention of the heart. It is not visible. Help me out, please.
What are the criteria to establish that a soul is closer to Allah and He will answer the dua sooner.

 

[Hard Rock Moslem]

:salam2:

Once again, "wasilah"... what does it mean?

Sufi-ism is a bit like Hinduism, isn't it? There are levels you have to attain to get higher and higher and then you get the highest level of Wusool which is unification of soul and God. Astaghfirullah!

But Hindu Brahmanism is the same concept. Sufi concepts of Fanaa and Wusool are similar to Hindu's Moksh and Nirvana. Maybe that's why it appealed to India so much? This is just hypothetical thinking. And please don't think how come I know so much about Sufism... I learnt about it during my courses at Islamic Online University. They had a whole chapter on learning why Sufism was wrong and deviant.

Brother,

I've been approached by sufis (my friends), I tried to followed them and found there are so much of bid'ah in their activities. So I withdrew, alhamdulillah. But I've a question for you, is Islam totally against Sufism?

 

[Hard Rock Moslem]

Brother Yunus,

Better to distant your self from any sufism as most sufism had deviated from Islam. I dare not to say all have deviated (brother Tabassum may shed some light about it), but I'm saying based on my own experience and advised from my sheikh who is expert in Sufism.

By the way, you have not answered my question yet. I'm here to learn about Deobandis.