Hi

[mhamzah]

:salam2:

Quote: You accuse the U.S for only recognizing women's rights very recently-which is true. But, the U.S also diminished slavery.

Actually its more of a strategic change, from physical slavery to economical slavery. I'll give you quite a few sources on that, for the time being I'll just refer you to the Book 'Confessions of an Economic Hitman'

http://www.democracynow.org/2004/11/9/confessions_of_an_economic_hit_man

http://www.economichitman.com/

http://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Economic-Hit-John-Perkins/dp/1576753018

 

[diplomaticmuslim]

Lensinki's biography of bill gates.

Honor's Voice: The Transformation of Abraham Lincoln by L Douglas

here are the books. my professor had the first one so i had easy access to it. the second should be available at amazon should you wish to verify my claim.

theres a chapter in the Quran which states "Indeed in the creation of the Heavens ad the Earth, and in the alteration of the day and night, there are indeed Signs for men of understanding". How true. your own existence is the proof that Allah exists.

and as i said before. i am happy for all those who found peace in christianity. if followed properly it is a very beautiful religion. love thy neighbour, turn the other cheek. ofcourse its beautiful if you follow the teachings of Isa AS and not paul. Isa said Allah is One. paul said He is one of three but not three. that didn't make sense. if Isa pbuh said He is One and Absolute then how can He be one of three?

when i analyzed the Quran and thought for myself, it all made perfect sense.

i kept reading whatever science taught me and i looked at it in the Quran and it all made perfect sense. science kept proving the Quran again and again. it was all stringed with sense and logic. it gave me scientific proofs that no man knew 1430 years ago. discoveries that came into knowledge in the last century are all written in the Quran.

 

[The Skeptic]

May I suggest that this thread be closed? The gentleman read the Quran and it did nothing for him. He looks at the signs of God everywhere and doesn't see anything special in any of them. It's futile to continue to argue with him when these basics do not resonate with him. God's existence cannot be proven like you prove a math problem. If it could be there would be no need for faith. What God asks us in the Quran is to look and reflect, work our minds and our hearts, then have faith. That's what I've called educated faith, something TheSkeptic made fun of. He shelters his heart and stops everything at the conscious mind stage of perception. It's highly unlikely that he can arrive at the truth that way.

You can invent any number of new terminology for something and it still wouldn't make any sense if it never made any sense from the beginning. Your term "educated faith" is just matter of semantics. It's synonymous with any Metaphysical claim.

I don't reject the perception of things beyond the conscious mind. I only do so, when it comes to reality. Science is a form of deductive reasoning, and thats the only way of getting at the scientific truth.

For example, if we allow something that is an unjustifiable claim to go beyond the conscious rational mind and be taken seriously as being part of reality, then anything such as Astrology, Voodoo, the claim that Elvis is still alive, Scientology, and any form of other beliefs, would be equally valid and MUST be taken seriously. If that was the case, I don't suppose humans would be any advanced today than we were in the middle ages. A serious Astrologer takes the same mind blistering stance as you, and says "Look around at the stars! See how the patterns reflect our ways of life? It's not faith, it's EDUCATED FAITH I TELL YOU!! It has nothing to with just believing. Do you not see the signs of the stars and the moon and see how they make one either have a bad day or a pleasant one? IT'S EDUCATED FAITH I TELL YOU!!" Then, he goes on and on about how the intelligent the original Astrologers were, and ties that in into his argument of persuading naive minds into thinking Astrology is something to be taken seriously. Indeed such stance has worked for several years. Just turn to any newspaper and you'll find at least one page, if not two, dedicated to Astrology.

I may sound harsh on the above paragraph, but it really does boil my blood a bit to see individuals such as yourself who by no doubt is very smart, stoop to such low and attempts to morph false reality into a plausible one. It's not a personal attack on you, but instead your idea. I have nothing against you personally. You may be comfortable with what you make reality out to be, but I hate to see any younger audience take you as an example, grow up, and use the same techniques to make any number of false ideas and turn it into something that has no real meaning in our lives.

But I suppose anything I just said won't change anyone's mind. That's fine. As the saying goes, "To each his own." I just request that anyone who's been reading this thread, examine my message of believing based on evidence, that is clear cut observable evidence, rather than just mere signs which ultimately calls for faith nonetheless.

=======================================================
I do agree with you at one thing however, let's close this thread. For those of you who I have not yet answered to, I'll return you a reply with a P.M. I promise.

Best Wishes
-TheSkeptic

 

[TheHumbleWun]

Salaam,

I agree with brother Ayman1. The Skeptic is a "freethinker" who subscribes to his own unorganized ways of thinking. This firm attitude & perception has made him closed to anything we have said since we have an organized way of thinking - alhamduillah. (Praise be to God) for giving us the religion of logic. Those whom Allah guides none can misguide and those whom Allah misguides none can guide.

Our last words to Skeptic is:

"To you be your Way, and to me mine" (Quran, 109:6)

Best Wishes,
TheHumbleWun

 

[gazkour]

"He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer!"

Surah 16:4


77] Doth not man see that it is We Who created him from sperm? Yet behold! he (stands forth) as an open adversary!

[78] And he makes comparisons for Us, and forgets his own (origin and) Creation: he says, "Who can give life to (dry) bones and decomposed ones (at that)?"

[79] Say, "He will give them life Who created them for the first time! for He is well-versed in every kind of creation!

Surah 36:77-79



[17]" Woe to man! What hath made him reject Allah?

[18] From what stuff hath He created him?

[19] From a drop of Semen: He hath created him, and then mouldeth him in due proportions;

[20] Then doth He make his path smooth for him;

[21] Then He causeth him to die, and putteth him in his Grave;

[22] Then, when it is His Will, He will raise him up (again).

[23] By no means hath he fulfilled what Allah hath commanded him."

Surah 80:17-23


Astrologers worship the stars
Christians worship Jesus
Buddists worship Budda
Scientists worship Science
Scientologists worship scientific laws
Zoroastrians worship fire
Hinduists worship Vishnu
Spiritists worship the spirits
Materialists worship the material
Skeptics worship doubt
Naturalists worship nature
Atheists worship ' logical' reasoning and relativism

Muslims worship The One Who has created all the above....Glory be to Him!


May Allah guide us all.

 

[Nurain]

Hi skeptic,

My best friend is an atheist. I wish she were as open minded as you cos ever since I started wearing hijab, she took it in heart how different things are - we no longer are best friends. I pray to Allaah she will be given guidance, but I can only do so much. Do stick around. You can ask us anything pertaining to Deen in sha Allaah =)

 

[The Skeptic]

Hi skeptic,

My best friend is an atheist. I wish she were as open minded as you cos ever since I started wearing hijab, she took it in heart how different things are - we no longer are best friends. I pray to Allaah she will be given guidance, but I can only do so much. Do stick around. You can ask us anything pertaining to Deen in sha Allaah =)

Thank you =)

I believe my reasons for my visit is misunderstood by people. For some reason few here got the idea that I was here to convert. I'm not here for that reason-nor do I want to convert. So no wonder my intentions were not understood by the majority here. I'm simply here to observe the Muslim community. I'm an Atheist yes, and my standards for belief are high, but it doesn't mean I'm willing to have the wrong idea about certain groups of people. There are too many people out there who barricade themselves from even interacting with Muslims. Thus, their perception of Muslims are clearly very distorted.

Anyways, I'll be off for a while until the exams are over. Once the exams are long done with, I'll get back here and post new topics.

 

[The Skeptic]

Astrologers worship the stars
Christians worship Jesus
Buddists worship Budda
Scientists worship Science
Scientologists worship scientific laws
Zoroastrians worship fire
Hinduists worship Vishnu
Spiritists worship the spirits
Materialists worship the material
Skeptics worship doubt
Naturalists worship nature
Atheists worship ' logical' reasoning and relativism

Please read up on what you just said. I doubt you ever read about any of the things you just mentioned.

 

[muslimda3ee]

THE ROPE

The night fell heavy in the heights of the mountains and the man could not see anything. All was black. Zero visibility, and the moon and the stars were covered by the clouds. As he was climbing only a few feet away from the top of the mountain, he slipped and fell in to the air, falling at great speed. He could only see black spots as he went down, and the terrible sensation of being sucked by gravity.

He kept falling. and in the moments of great fear, it came to his mind all the good and bad episodes of his life. He was thinking now about how close death was getting, when all of a sudden he felt the rope tied to his waist pull him very hard. His body was hanging in the air.

Only the rope was holding him and in that moment of stillness he had no other choice other to scream: "Help me God".

All of a sudden a deep voice coming from the sky answered, "What do you want me to do?"

"Save me God".

"Do you really think I can save you?"

"Of course I believe You can."

"Then cut the rope tied to your waist."

There was a moment of silence and the man decided to hold on to the rope with all his strength. The rescue team tells that the next day a climber was found dead and frozen. his body hanging from a rope. His hands holding tight to it. Only 1 foot away from the ground.

Conclusion: And We? How attached we are to our rope will we let go??? Don't ever doubt about the words of God. We should never say that He has forgotten us or abandoned us.


this is better reading than what I have read in other than God in this thread. think about it. what do you do when you are faced with a great peril, surely it would not be well 2+2=4. Anybody approaching science subject knows that it requires step through of the problem, if you claim you know the answer most of the time that is the problem. It is not an answer, it is how you solved and came to a solution that will give a tangible solution.

 

[The Skeptic]

what do you do when you are faced with a great peril, surely it would not be well 2+2=4.

Actually, once I'm faced with a great peril, I know there is always a solution, or else it won't be called a problem. Now, your quote about 2+2=4, I'm presuming you're referring to a procedure. Well, during times of great perils, going through strict procedures that will save your life is a great tool. Screaming for god won't really help you much if you don't know what you are doing in the first place. Your story by the way is fictional, so thus it doesn't prove anything. If that man knew how to survive and better take care of himself during mountain climbs, he wouldn't be in the situation of being stuck with the rope in the great darkness in the first place. What type of professional climber climbs a mountain in the absolute dark?

 

[shichemlydia]

welcome

salam alikoum,
you are welcome to the website, hope you enjoy your time with us, looking forward to seeing your concerns.
wa salam alikoum

 

[Nurain]

...once I'm faced with a great peril, I know there is always a solution, or else it won't be called a problem...

Ma Sha Allaah.

Show us how to save ourselves from death. Show me how to hold somone I love back from dying.

Show me how to cause rain to pour out of the clouds. When a place is landed with draught, show me.

Show me how it is that my body and my innerself seems to be two individual entities, yet corresponds to one another. When my mind/heart intends something, why does my physical self not do something entirely opposite -- something which we did not think of doing.

Show me how to create myself, my own human anatomy.

Show me how to teach the birds to hunt for food, how to build its nests.

Show me how to teach spiders to create their webs.

I can ask you to show me many more things. The knowledge that you and I have, is only so little.

If you only open your heart, perhaps take time to stare in the sky, see the sun rise and fall, see the clouds move assuringly, see how safe you are you would know Allaah is our Protector.

 

[~Ali_]

Peace brother, Do you believe in evolution?

 

[lily_mawar]

Hi Skeptic ...

Welcome to TTI world. If you have any questions or doubt about Islam, don't hesitate ... our brothers and sisters are kind to help ...

 

[The Skeptic]

Death is not a problem in my opinion, it's part of life. Death doesn't have a solution -its not a problem, instead just nature playing it's course. I don't have a problem with death-I accept it. Although I will say however, scientists are working on prolonging life for as long as they could. There are also researching on "freezing life". There is very little research going on regarding the matter, but still just goes to show you, people are working on prolonging life.

When I said every problem has a solution, it never refers to the rest of what you just mentioned either. What you listed are not problems but mere nature taking it's course. Why do you have a problem against nature? For example you said:

Show me how to cause rain to pour out of the clouds. When a place is landed with draught, show me.

Move to a place where it does rain then.

Show me how it is that my body and my innerself seems to be two individual entities, yet corresponds to one another. When my mind/heart intends something, why does my physical self not do something entirely opposite -- something which we did not think of doing.

The unconscious mind as Freud explains it, is the dominating mind that protects you from thoughts that bring back bad memories and also records habits thus making you "automatically" do something without your conscious awareness. If you have a problem with a bad habit, change it. It takes about 21 days for your mind to learn a new habit. If it's really a problem, get therapy

Show me how to create myself, my own human anatomy.

Attend an university and specialize in cloning.

Show me how to teach the birds to hunt for food, how to build its nests.

Most birds don't hunt for food. Some do, but most don't. Those that do, don't need to be taught, it's in their nature. Those that don't hunt for food, don't need to be taught. It's in their nature to not hunt for food.

If you want a bird to help you hunt for food, get an eagle. Eagles have been used to scout for hunting for centuries.

Show me how to teach spiders to create their webs.

Why? Most spiders make their webs, thus they know how to do it from the start. Why would you need to teach them?

I can ask you to show me many more things. The knowledge that you and I have, is only so little.

Yes...yes you could. But for the better of both of us, keep them reasonable okay? Okay.

 

[The Skeptic]

Peace brother, Do you believe in evolution?

Yeah, I do. I believe in it just the way I believe gravity is what keeping me from going afloat.

(Are you about to quote Adnaan Oktar by any chance? If so please don't bother, that man has been debunked by about every biologists out there. Richard Dawkins actually did a special on debunking his claims. He really does have a very facile understanding of how evolution works)

 

[kashif_nazeer]

Hi Skepetic,
Peace
Welcome to the forum first of all.Secondly I respect that you are skeptic.Thirdly as a Muslim its my duty to tell you about Islam.Allah is known through reason.Qur'an exhorts us at many places to excplore things,learn them, understand them and see the signs therein and if we have the right mind and our hearts are open we will be guided and see the right from wrong.
I hope you'll benifit from this forum insha'allah.
Peace.

 

[Nurain]

You speak like a true skeptic, like Allaah has said subhanAllaah.

 

[gazkour]

The point of my post was not to analyze ,refer to or define deeply and philosophically every religion, view or belief out there.
You have mentioned that creatures(like spiders or birds) do what they do because it's in their nature, not because they are 'taught' to do it.
So basically my point was to remind you, no matter how many times you go around and around with details, science, reasoning, laws, relativism, that we muslims believe in the Creator of that nature you are talking about, doesn't matter how you look at it or how you define it. That's all. Maybe I just put it too simple for you that you don't get it . I see you like your endless phylosophy! (no offense! )

Sorry for not being as clear as I should have.
Be welcome to the site,once more.
Peace.

 

[~Ali_]

Yeah, I do. I believe in it just the way I believe gravity is what keeping me from going afloat.

(Are you about to quote Adnaan Oktar by any chance? If so please don't bother, that man has been debunked by about every biologists out there. Richard Dawkins actually did a special on debunking his claims. He really does have a very facile understanding of how evolution works)

lol no .. I wasn't planning to....this is all from my own noggen'
Have you seen the evolutionary process with your own eyes?
(I am not talking about fossils etc.)