Hi

[The Skeptic]

You want evidence, those 4 lectures will give you evidence.

I have so far listened to two out of the four lectures. I want to properly respond to them, but I'm going to finish the last two you recommended. Thanks for being patient!

 

[diplomaticmuslim]

haha no no. i wasnt implying you are an automatically immoral person. i was just asking where do you get ur sense of right n wrong. no need to get defensive.

children's books are man-written and not always the best source of moral guidance. for example you teach an 8th grader Romeo and Juliet. now look at the ending. if you cant be with the one you love, kill yourself.
this story warps the mentality of children and you have so many teenagers who cant be together so they commit suicide.

this is not the only life you get. there is another one after it. an infinite one.

its strange that you claim yourself to be an athiest, are quick to quote Isa AS but not Muhammad pbuh words "none of you is a believer until he wants for his neighbour what he wants for himself". such a profound saying if you contemplate.

btw i was born a muslim, became an athiest due to psychological problems, repented n became muslim again once i read the Quran as if Allah is talking to me thru it. strangely enuff i found some aspects of my life written in there.

 

[mhamzah]

LOL Yeah I read this before. This isn't new to me. There are many sources out there that debunks this man, but I'll take the time to go by point to point refuting of this as I have the time in the near future.[/QUOTE]

:salam2:

Lol, those sources of yours have been refuted time and time again. I have checked up on them. Remeber a person crime in Islam is not what he believes, his crime is at what whether he checks up on what he believes or not.

So maybe you ought to recheck your sources,

http://scienceislam.com/scientists_quran.php

 

[The Skeptic]

No, I wasn't getting defensive, just pointing out what seemed an obvious implication of something negative. Thats all.

children's books are man-written and not always the best source of moral guidance. for example you teach an 8th grader Romeo and Juliet. now look at the ending. if you cant be with the one you love, kill yourself.
this story warps the mentality of children and you have so many teenagers who cant be together so they commit suicide.

LOL is that really all you got out of Romeo and Juliet?

There are deeper meanings to stories that we can acquire moral values from. Now, it should be noted that these stories, including the ones in the Bible and the Quran are merely just stories. What you get from it depends entirely upon the reader, and the intention of the author. For example, the three little pigs can teach teamwork, but someone can very well take away that only bricks makes the best houses...

It's all very subjective.

this is not the only life you get. there is another one after it. an infinite one.

Maybe. I have no evidence for it.

its strange that you claim yourself to be an athiest, are quick to quote Isa AS but not Muhammad pbuh words "none of you is a believer until he wants for his neighbour what he wants for himself". such a profound saying if you contemplate.

Sure, it's profound, but I quoted Jesus because it's also known as the golden rule. And, why can't an Atheist quote someone like Isa or Muhammed? Do I have to be religious in order to do so? I deny their prophetic claims but they were both historical figures none the less. There are many historical figures who said about the same thing who never claimed prophet hood.

btw i was born a muslim, became an athiest due to psychological problems, repented n became muslim again once i read the Quran as if Allah is talking to me thru it. strangely enuff i found some aspects of my life written in there.

Well all the power to you my friend!

If you don't mind, may I refer you to few people on the internet who has the same story as you but only they found Christianity, or Mormonism, Hinduism, or Scientology to be true, and are just as confident that those are the true religions?

Simply put, personal stories don't really prove anything. I am happy for you that you found peace and something to cling to. However, it's not good enough for me, as it's not really proper evidence.

 

[The Skeptic]

LOL Yeah I read this before. This isn't new to me. There are many sources out there that debunks this man, but I'll take the time to go by point to point refuting of this as I have the time in the near future.

:salam2:

Lol, those sources of yours have been refuted time and time again. I have checked up on them. Remeber a person crime in Islam is not what he believes, his crime is at what whether he checks up on what he believes or not.

So maybe you ought to recheck your sources,

http://scienceislam.com/scientists_quran.php

[/QUOTE]

I never listed my sources, how can you possibly know what I'm referring to?:lol:

 

[mhamzah]

[/QUOTE]

I never listed my sources, how can you possibly know what I'm referring to?:lol:[/QUOTE]

:salam2:

I know you haven't, but they are available all over, you don't have to hunt for them, anyways I'll be waiting for you to reply on those 4 lectures.

 

[diplomaticmuslim]

and i am happy for people who found peace in any religion. there is a saying of a famous texan muslim "If you don't believe in islam atleast believe in christianity". he said this in sweden but the meaning is that if you don't believe in my religion atleast believe in something good.

even an atheist believes in something, however meagre. there is peace in believing. believing that there is something better than this cesspool of a worldly life where injustice is rife for scores of people around the world. and we should all believe in what is rational and logical.

and there is nothing more rational and logical than the belief in Islam. i say that but where is the proof of this claim?
and maybe somebody has given you a hyperlink which proves that, no?

i have only one concern for you, if you watch the videos ppl are recommending, and you find ample proof in any one, please dont become stubborn. those who don't believe even after sufficient proof comes to them, they are the biggest losers in this world and the Hereafter. and ofcourse
according to islamic beliefs, muslims cannot 'convert' you, it only upto Allah to give you Guidance. if you draw near towards Allah an arm's length, He draws near to you a fathom's length

 

[massi]

Hi THere
What's your proof God Doesn't exist ?​

 

[The Skeptic]

and i am happy for people who found peace in any religion. there is a saying of a famous texan muslim "If you don't believe in islam atleast believe in christianity". he said this in sweden but the meaning is that if you don't believe in my religion atleast believe in something good.

Well with all due respect, that's a pretty arrogant statement. It greatly undermines the good nature in people. There are many Atheists out there who do a lot of good for the world: Bill Gates, Warren Buffet are prime examples. Also someone like Abraham Lincoln, and Thomas Jefferson who were agnostic. They did tremendous amounts of good to better the lives of future generations. Are they not good people, according to your famous texan Muslim? If so, then why make the remark that if someone doesn't believe in Islam, they should believe in at least some type of religion? People don't need religion to be good. Religion is divided in to two factors: one is discipline, and the other is spirituality. I deny the spiritual portion, but doesn't mean I need it to be disciplined.

But even still, if I don't believe in your religion, you ask me to believe in something good. Well, I believe in living my life as a good person who gives back to the world. That I think is good.

even an atheist believes in something, however meagre. there is peace in believing. believing that there is something better than this cesspool of a worldly life where injustice is rife for scores of people around the world. and we should all believe in what is rational and logical.

There is peace in believing. Difference between you and I is that I hold a belief based on observable evidence. To me, any belief that is no supported by evidence, for example Astrology, is just a comfort blanket.

and there is nothing more rational and logical than the belief in Islam. i say that but where is the proof of this claim?
and maybe somebody has given you a hyperlink which proves that, no?

i have only one concern for you, if you watch the videos ppl are recommending, and you find ample proof in any one, please dont become stubborn. those who don't believe even after sufficient proof comes to them, they are the biggest losers in this world and the Hereafter. and ofcourse
according to islamic beliefs, muslims cannot 'convert' you, it only upto Allah to give you Guidance. if you draw near towards Allah an arm's length, He draws near to you a fathom's length

I'm not as stubborn as you may think I am. I'm open to the idea of being proven wrong. That is why I'm here after all, and why I'm also taking the time out to view the links Mahamzah has posted.

I ask that you open yourself to the same, and look at Islam under harsh light of skepticism rather than just accepting it because it helped you through some psychological distress.

 

[The Skeptic]

Hi THere
What's your proof God Doesn't exist ?​

Massi,

A man comes to you and says that he had a revelation that there is an invisible cupcake that orbits MARS. You can't see it, touch it, smell it, hear it, or feel it, but he insists with all his heatr that it is there. You say you don't believe him. Then he tells you What's your proof that this cupcake doesn't exist?

Can you prove to him it doesn't exist? How can you prove something negative?

Before you ponder over that, let me save you the trouble of doing so. The burden of proof is always on the one who claims, not one who doubts. God may very well exist, but as I said, it's very improbable based on all the evidence that is against his existence. Likewise, the man's cupcake may very well exist, but you can't see it, touch it, hear it, or feel it to know for certain. Thus, you have no reason for believing in it. But, if you do believe in it, that's called faith. With enough metaphorical pondering you may think the cupcake's existence is probable, and you may even feel a tingle inside your body that tells you it's there, orbiting merrily around MARS, then you go on to call it "educated faith." However, the fact of the matter is, you really have no real evidence for the existence of the cupcake...

 

[pushtoonafgani]

indeed she has told u the right web site,here u can talk freely and can have ur misconception clear.by talking and discussing with ur fellows.

 

[The Skeptic]

indeed she has told u the right web site,here u can talk freely and can have ur misconception clear.by talking and discussing with ur fellows.

If I have any misconceptions about Islam, I'd be more than happy to get it cleared. I don't hold any belief based on false knowledge.

As the old saying goes "Knowledge is Power"- School house rock?

 

[The Skeptic]

Everyone,

I greatly appreciate all the responses I've received. I thank you again for allowing me to come aboard and converse with you properly. As I mentioned before to some of you, I'm quite busy with my life outside of the internet. I have finals, and a job to tend to. I promise to get back to those who's post I haven't yet replied to in the near future. If anything, you asked a question a while ago, and I didn't answer it, please know it's unintentional. If you really want a response, feel free to PM it to me, as your post may have gotten lost under the torrents of replies to my original post.

Thanks!

 

[pushtoonafgani]

how can i communicate directly with u?

if u r interested in discussion,my yahoo id is pushtooafgani*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!

i will answer all question.and i will be happy to talk and discuss with u

 

[pushtoonafgani]

my yahoo id

pushtoonafgani*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!

 

[FreedomFighter]

:salam2:

So in other words, if you commit an act, do you have to wait for god to tell you that it was moral or immoral, or are you capable of personally judging an action for being moral or immoral?

in Islam, our prophet Muhammad (pbuh) had oready shown us what is wrong and right. everything is oready there for us. if we commit an act, we can know whether its wrong or right according our prorhet's teachings. Allah says in the Quran that He has completed and made Islam as our religion. the Quran and the life of the prophet is there for us to follow. it tells us what is morally right and wrong. if for example there is a new discovery, then what is the ruling? is it right or wrong in Islam? is it allowed? then these will be made by the scholars who will use analogical deductions or consensus, but only if it wasnt found in the Quran or sunnah and of course it will be based on the Quran and sunnah. the way to live our lives is oready there for us, and we should know what is moral or immoral.

 

[massi]

Massi,

A man comes to you and says that he had a revelation that there is an invisible cupcake that orbits MARS. You can't see it, touch it, smell it, hear it, or feel it, but he insists with all his heart that it is there. You say you don't believe him. Then he tells you What's your proof that this cupcake doesn't exist?
..................................................................................................
thank you for your answer :

I think I ask you proofs That God doesn't exit so I can do what I want , when I want , How I want and get rid of all the rules around me !!!
your Idea is totally wrong !!!

1/what's his prove it does exist ???

2/what's his prove he had a revelation so I can trust his information cuz it's something unseen ?
3/If anyone claim anything without proof and it has to be true ...so it'll be a mess !!!
4/God gives miracles to his prophets to support them but we don't see them , so what we have to do ? it's simple , study the religion !!! study the Quran which is the eternal Miracle for the universe !
here an example and I'd like if you can prove wrong !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Surat El qyama (the Resurrection Day)

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
[1] I do call to witness the Resurrection Day;

[2] And I do call to witness the self-reproaching spirit; (eschew Evil).

[3] Does man think that We cannot assemble his bones?

[4] Nay, We are able to put together in perfect order the very tips of his fingers.


A man comes to you and says that he had read that Allaah (sbw )says in the Quran that he is able to put together in perfect order the very tips of his (Of the human) fingers (the fingerprint) which You can see it, touch it or feel it, and he insists with all his heart that it is there. You say you don't believe him. Then the scientist comes to you and revealed that any fingerprint of someone doesn't match in the world with anyone else.
so why Allaah specially mentioned the fingerprint (The History of Fingerprints)
simple answer : make it clear that there is "the Resurrection Day" and Allaah can recreated the Body of the mankind including the very spot of his fingers
Just as he will recreated the mankind in "the Resurrection Day"
but what the relation between the fingerprint and the God ?
it's because The one who created the man knows everything in the body including the very spot of his fingerprint
in other hand means Allaah who created you including your fingerprint ....will bring you to the day of Judgment
Allaah tell you :
surat Fossilate

(53)Soon will We show them Our Signs in the (furthest) regions (of the earth), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?

[54] Ah indeed! are they in doubt concerning the Meeting with their Lord? Ah indeed! it is He that doth encompass all things! verse 53.
Allaah will show the miracles which you can see it, touch it, smell it, hear it, or feel .

so​

Can you prove to him it doesn't exist? How can you prove something negative? How you can deny this miracle about the fingerprint ?​

 

[TheHumbleWun]

Massi,

A man comes to you and says that he had a revelation that there is an invisible cupcake that orbits MARS. You can't see it, touch it, smell it, hear it, or feel it, but he insists with all his heatr that it is there. You say you don't believe him. Then he tells you What's your proof that this cupcake doesn't exist?

Can you prove to him it doesn't exist? How can you prove something negative?

Before you ponder over that, let me save you the trouble of doing so. The burden of proof is always on the one who claims, not one who doubts. God may very well exist, but as I said, it's very improbable based on all the evidence that is against his existence. Likewise, the man's cupcake may very well exist, but you can't see it, touch it, hear it, or feel it to know for certain. Thus, you have no reason for believing in it. But, if you do believe in it, that's called faith. With enough metaphorical pondering you may think the cupcake's existence is probable, and you may even feel a tingle inside your body that tells you it's there, orbiting merrily around MARS, then you go on to call it "educated faith." However, the fact of the matter is, you really have no real evidence for the existence of the cupcake...

Hello,

Can you hear, taste, touch, feel, or smell your brain? Using your 5 or 6 senses, prove to us that you have a brain!

I think your philosophy courses has made you confused. There are many athiests that reverted to Islam. Search this site and search Youtube. It seems that you can not be convinced and have blocked your heart & mind from anything we have given you. May God guide you on the right path and not of those who went astray.

Best wishes.

P.S. I'd love to hear your feedback on my post #58.

 

[The Skeptic]

Hello,

Can you hear, taste, touch, feel, or smell your brain? Using your 5 or 6 senses, prove to us that you have a brain!

I saw a scanned picture of my brain at the doctors, so I'm pretty convinced I have a brain.

Best Wishes.

P.S. I'd love to hear your feedback on my post #58.

Sure, I'll take a look at it, and give you a feedback by the end of today.

 

[TheHumbleWun]

I saw a scanned picture of my brain at the doctors, so I'm pretty convinced I have a brain.

Best Wishes.



Sure, I'll take a look at it, and give you a feedback by the end of today.

Hello,

I was anticipating that answer. Now let's say you were the first human being on earth...how would you prove it?

What about those who are unfortunate and don't have the medical technology? Sure you can observe some dead bodies brain but how can you be sure if YOU have a brain if you didn't have medical technology? My friend, you have faith but you deny it because you like being stubborn.

Like the doctor, God or Allah (in arabic) convinces us the Truth in the Holy Quran. If it didn't convince you then our arguements should end. Those whom Allah guides none can misguide and those whom Allah misguides none can guide.