Immigrant Marriage, Marriage of conveniences!

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hussain.mahammed

a lonely traveller
As salamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wabrakatuhu
The problem with some of the people are that they are only after passports because they think about materialistic desires and lust for this dunya. They think that getting a british or american passport will give a higher status in their societies. They think people will respect them more. I know a lot of such cases. I agree with brother Al-kathiri, education holds the key. If a Muslim knows Islam in the correct way, knows how to choose a spouse and for what reasons, makes Istikhara and relies everything on Allah, Insha Allah the resulting marriage would be successful.
Now we have to ask ourselves, are we following the Quran and Sunnah in the proper way? I am not questioning anybody's Eeman or Faith but rather looking at the problem in the way pleasing to Allah Subhanahu wa Taala.
Brush up your Quran and Sunnah and once you have done your homework rely everything on Allah Subhanahu wa Taala, your life will bear sweet fruits Insha Allah.
We cannot generalise the problems being faced by the Muslim brothers and sisters. We have to look at our problems individually, we have to seek help from our brothers and sisters, we have to consult, seek advice, analyse matters, not just jump into a conclusion or decision without thinking.
We should remember that Wisdom and Knowledge comes from Allah Subhanahu Wa Taala, and if we seek Allah's help in whatever problem we face Insha Allah we will achieve the solution to it.
Ya Allah help us to be better Muslims so that we can do something for YOUR sake, and for the sake of Muslim brothers and sisters.
Regarding reverts I feel any nearby Mosque Authority and Muslim brothers and sisters should help them, in whatever help they require. Not just marriage but increasing their knowledge of the Deen as well. Understanding Islam and growing with it, will make them more wise.
But we should also remember that we cannot read a person's mind nor should we make imaginary judgements about him (or her) just because he (or she) is from Asian or African or Non-western background. So we should try to get more information about the required partner and about his (or her) character as a Muslim.
One more thing which we should realise that we may plan something but Allah is the best of Planners. If something has happened which we feel is wrong, its due to our ignorance and negligence. We should be blamed for not taking the matter seriously.
Few months I read in one of the threads here, how a sister helped her husband in getting western citizenship because he did not give importance in getting a passport but she was overwhelmed by his piousness. If she could help him in some way, why not in a way which will in turn yield good results. So that he can have a job, work, earn and maintain his family. And both are living happily, Alhamdulillah.
So its not that all the time, immigrants marry due to materialistic desires. There are some pious ones too, who when gets married think about his (or her) spouse and the future lying ahead.
wa/salam
 

ripefig

Junior Member
:salam2:

I have seen a lot of brothers (especially African Americans) in America go to the middle east to get wives. Mostly in Morocco. These brothers are not young. They take a trip and marry these young girls and bring them back to America. I have seen some of them treat these girls worst than a Kafir would treat their dog. However, I ask myself sometimes, what is going on in the minds of these parents who let their young daughter go off into a strange land with maybe an ex-convict or someone who just want to satisfy their lust. Some of them have kids nearly the age of the girl. It's obviously for citizenship because some of them even get married on the phone. I am wondering if I had a daughter would I want to take a chance like that. I would prefer to be poor and happy with my children than have them marry a total stranger in another land. Because of this trend many brothers are seeking wives from the middle east and leaving the local sisters without husbands. I am not saying that this is always the case, but it happens too often.:wasalam:
 

wannabe_muttaqi

A MUSLIM BROTHER
ASAK,
i have faced it personally. i came to US for further studies and after which now on a job hunt. i had experienced people coming and wanting their son/daughter to get married off to you couple of times after which i stopped going to gatherings. even if you go there i stay away from few people who are asking more personal questions.

People dare to say ( with a sorry face to gain sympathy) upfront that they haven't raised their children with the teachings of ISLAM and in the same breath they have courage to ask us (Indirectly) to marry them . i felt like someone has enjoyed their life without taking care of their children's future, now when the time is for their marriage, they think they can tag this irresponsible stupid western born gal/guy to anyone who has come down here in hopes and aspirations of successful career.

the other person openly asked me directly "Don't you want green card?". they think green card or citizenship of a western country is a biscuit seeing which any guy/gal will come to them wagging their tail like a dog.


they are not even ashamed and don't even realise that this the fruit of what they sowed.
 

Globalpeace

Banned
Born-Muslimahs

Asslamo Allaikum,

We have discussed the revert Sisters & Brothers going overseas & getting hitched to death.

What about the Born-Muslimahs;who are the most affected by this issue?
 

Oem Soufiane

Junior Member
yes, but nobody wants to marry someone from overseas in their homecountry without European papers, beacause they know it's often about these papers.

Actually I am a revert and know a whole lot of them, and i have never ever heard one getting married to a man from a foreign country without papers.

And i have to say if they would, they are very very very naive (don't know how to spell it) and you are asking for trouble, what do you think he wants if he is foreign in a pore country, leaving his whole family and culture beheind to marry a girl from europe, plus he wants to live here. A pure practising muslim won't trade his 'islamic country' for a land of the kuffaar. If they do, how do you know for shure he is a practising muslim, if you don't have a practising muslim, you shouldn't get married at all with this person.
 

Globalpeace

Banned
How to organise Marriages!

Asslamo Allaikum Brothers/Sisters,

I try to start threads which are important for the Ummah and expect some practical tips but apart from some; all I get is some arguments and half-hearted efforts.

Here is my flawed scheme to get rid of the problem!

How about the simple method of the local Mosques organising Sisters & Brothers to get married.

Isn’t that what used to happen in the time of Rasul-ullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam);why can’t it happen in Mosques in London in 2007?

1. Brothers/Sisters visit Mosques and people look at their character and then it goes from there; or am I being too simplistic?
2. If your local Mosque doesn’t have a suitable partner then Muslim organisations in the country organise a National database; you are free to choose anyone you want; but your character reference etc. still comes from your local Imam (Mosque etc.).
3. Sisters/Borthers are told precisely and completely about the background of good Brothers/Sisters with character witnesses, historic details & SCUM-BAGS/SLICK-SISTERS to avoid!
4. Ultimate decision is off course theirs but full background info is provided and all necessary counselling with a little booklet on instructions on HOW to do Istikhara etc.
5. Once the decision is made; more and detailed counselling on rights/responsibilities of husbands/wives; intimacy, children etc.
6. Local Mosques stays in touch and gives the chance to the newly-wed couple to ask any questions and ready to assist in case of any problems; WITHOUT being interfering and overbearing

5 & 6 are dead-important for reverts!

O Forgot! That would require organisation and us burying our differences. Sorry! Can’t do that. Scrap that idea at once…Good-God! Did I just recommend getting rid of sects!:SMILY288:
 

Happy 2BA Muslim

Islamophilic
Asslamo Allaikum Brothers/Sisters,

I try to start threads which are important for the Ummah and expect some practical tips but apart from some; all I get is some arguments and half-hearted efforts.

Here is my flawed scheme to get rid of the problem!

How about the simple method of the local Mosques organising Sisters & Brothers to get married.

Isn’t that what used to happen in the time of Rasul-ullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam);why can’t it happen in Mosques in London in 2007?

1. Brothers/Sisters visit Mosques and people look at their character and then it goes from there; or am I being too simplistic?
2. If your local Mosque doesn’t have a suitable partner then Muslim organisations in the country organise a National database; you are free to choose anyone you want; but your character reference etc. still comes from your local Imam (Mosque etc.).
3. Sisters/Borthers are told precisely and completely about the background of good Brothers/Sisters with character witnesses, historic details & SCUM-BAGS/SLICK-SISTERS to avoid!
4. Ultimate decision is off course theirs but full background info is provided and all necessary counselling with a little booklet on instructions on HOW to do Istikhara etc.
5. Once the decision is made; more and detailed counselling on rights/responsibilities of husbands/wives; intimacy, children etc.
6. Local Mosques stays in touch and gives the chance to the newly-wed couple to ask any questions and ready to assist in case of any problems; WITHOUT being interfering and overbearing

5 & 6 are dead-important for reverts!

O Forgot! That would require organisation and us burying our differences. Sorry! Can’t do that. Scrap that idea at once…Good-God! Did I just recommend getting rid of sects!:SMILY288:

:salam2:

Jazakum Allahu khayran Brother!

Excellent idea, and in my opinion practical. But it does need dedication.

Differences being buried is true Islam, AND WE CAN DO THAT!

I suggest you start on the project in the UK since you have lots of free time. :SMILY335: jk

:salam2:
 

Oem Soufiane

Junior Member
I don't know what you as muslims normally in your countries, Here we just let our sisters know we want to get married, sisters who have husbands ask if their husband knows a brother who wants to get married and you arrange a meeting with witnesses in the mosque, you ask the questions you want to ask, and set up another meeting in the mosque or make weddingplans, or decide not to meet again. untill you meet the right partner, this way you only meet muslims who visit the mosques and you know the people who recommend the spouse to be. So you can get an idea what type of person you are going to meet.
 

Globalpeace

Banned
Asslamo Allaikum,

In Muslim countries you usually have families arrange this sort of stuff and family network continues to support you afterwards.

What you are describing usually happens in the West everywhere BUT it’s pretty ad-hoc don’t you think? with two serious flaws in the method:

1) No solid and reliable background information to make decision upon
2) No significant After-sale help

1 results in bad decisions

2 results in problems with nowhere to turn to & eventual break-ups

Comments welcome.

I don't know what you as muslims normally in your countries, Here we just let our sisters know we want to get married, sisters who have husbands ask if their husband knows a brother who wants to get married and you arrange a meeting with witnesses in the mosque, you ask the questions you want to ask, and set up another meeting in the mosque or make weddingplans, or decide not to meet again. untill you meet the right partner, this way you only meet muslims who visit the mosques and you know the people who recommend the spouse to be. So you can get an idea what type of person you are going to meet.
 

Oem Soufiane

Junior Member
Asslamo Allaikum,

In Muslim countries you usually have families arrange this sort of stuff and family network continues to support you afterwards.

What you are describing usually happens in the West everywhere BUT it’s pretty ad-hoc don’t you think? with two serious flaws in the method:

1) No solid and reliable background information to make decision upon
2) No significant After-sale help

1 results in bad decisions

2 results in problems with nowhere to turn to & eventual break-ups

Comments welcome.

No absolutely not, when you meet eachother for the same goal (marriage)

you have the same view in life (living upon the sunna) and both know
eachothers rights (through islam)

It can never go wrong, because you are marrying (?) for the sake of Allah, through the laws of Allah and nobody will interfere. You pray istikhara, easily take your time and get married, I have never seen it going wrong.

If we put our trust in Allah things will never go wrong.
 

Lubz

New Member
Aslaamu alykumzz brothers n sistersss May Allah swt woch ova al ov u jazak'aLLah.. wel i think this concept is a major 1 becus i myslf am going thru a similar problem,my famly want me 2 marry my cusin frm bk home but i myslf dont n i dont kno ow 2 mke my famly understand cus no matter ow i tell them they wont lisen.. =( plz help me n tel me wat is ryt n wrong in islam as i have not much knowlege.. thnkuu all Allah hafiz..
 

Oem Soufiane

Junior Member
Aslaamu alykumzz brothers n sistersss May Allah swt woch ova al ov u jazak'aLLah.. wel i think this concept is a major 1 becus i myslf am going thru a similar problem,my famly want me 2 marry my cusin frm bk home but i myslf dont n i dont kno ow 2 mke my famly understand cus no matter ow i tell them they wont lisen.. =( plz help me n tel me wat is ryt n wrong in islam as i have not much knowlege.. thnkuu all Allah hafiz..

you don't have to get married to someone u dont want. Your parents can advice you who to marry but if you say know it still remains no. Look at www.islamqa.com, and find your answer, type in a keyword and look for a similar situation, they have almost every answer there mashallah
 

Globalpeace

Banned
Asslamo Allaikum Sister,

I think you already know that in Islam NO ONE can FORCE you to marry against your will.

If the discussions with your parents are NOT working; please get others involved to MAKE the point for you i.e. family, friends, Imam, relatives...

If that doesn't work then we will have to take some nasty measures.

I have dealt with some cases of this nature & involving others always helps.

I am sure that some Sister here can PM you, exchange e-mails & discuss the issue in detail...

Unfortunately this is common in UK; hence my thread.

You will be in our duas, Insha'Allah.

Aslaamu alykumzz brothers n sistersss May Allah swt woch ova al ov u jazak'aLLah.. wel i think this concept is a major 1 becus i myslf am going thru a similar problem,my famly want me 2 marry my cusin frm bk home but i myslf dont n i dont kno ow 2 mke my famly understand cus no matter ow i tell them they wont lisen.. =( plz help me n tel me wat is ryt n wrong in islam as i have not much knowlege.. thnkuu all Allah hafiz..
 

UmmOf3

Junior Member
Salaam aleikum

I havent read the whole thread here, so sorry if I am off topic by replying to the orginal post hehe...

Its sad, and I think this problem go all ways. Meaning, both sisters and brothers are used, and its a big problem today. People care more about marrying "fisabiliVisa! and not fisabilillah, see...

Here in Norway, we have two main problems. Second generation imigrants being pushed into marriages with cousins or family from back home, who wants a future in Europe, and they are "sold" to the familymember who pays the highest amount to the parents (I cant call this mahr, it would be wrong, since the parents take the money). This happens to both girls and boys, actually, since in some cultures, girls parents pay dowry too... These are possible to help through political means, many times, like higher demands for "reuniting-visa's", and longer waiting-periods, and so on, but no islamic ways will help, cuz parents are so strongly set in their old ways. They fear "honour" more than Allah.

The other issue is new muslims or nonmuslims meeting muslim men on the net, or here in Norway, living without papers... These are not possible to save, almost. Only by educating new muslims in their islamic rights, such as the right to a Mahr (even if you are not a virgin), the right of a marriage contract (no, its not unislamic), the right to a high mahr (yes, you can demand more than 1 $ and a verse from the Quran), the right of support (yes, its not unislamic to demand that your husband go work) and the right of keeping your own money (no, you dont need to pay 75% of your income to his family in order to stay married)...

Education, education, education.
 

Globalpeace

Banned
Little girls; skipping rope!

Asslamo Allaikum,

With the utmost respect to some; in my humble opinion what is missing is a system.

I watch little girls play and skip rope at our Islamic school and I am sure all of you have seen it where two girls hold the rope and rotate and other girls get in the middle and start jumping. When they get tired someone else gets in the middle and starts jumping as long as the rope is still rotating. Sometimes they get it wrong so they start again; but once the system (game) is known, its easy.

So we need a SYSTEM in place to sort out issues with Reverts & Born-Muslims, knowledge and education will help (no doubt) but once you put systems, processes and mechanisms in place then its like a rotating rope; whoever wants to start skipping can just join in, and have fun!

Social issues are the similar for Reverts & Born-Muslims Not same but similar.
 

hussain.mahammed

a lonely traveller
Asslamo Allaikum Brothers/Sisters,

I try to start threads which are important for the Ummah and expect some practical tips but apart from some; all I get is some arguments and half-hearted efforts.

Here is my flawed scheme to get rid of the problem!

How about the simple method of the local Mosques organising Sisters & Brothers to get married.

Isn’t that what used to happen in the time of Rasul-ullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam);why can’t it happen in Mosques in London in 2007?

1. Brothers/Sisters visit Mosques and people look at their character and then it goes from there; or am I being too simplistic?
2. If your local Mosque doesn’t have a suitable partner then Muslim organisations in the country organise a National database; you are free to choose anyone you want; but your character reference etc. still comes from your local Imam (Mosque etc.).
3. Sisters/Borthers are told precisely and completely about the background of good Brothers/Sisters with character witnesses, historic details & SCUM-BAGS/SLICK-SISTERS to avoid!
4. Ultimate decision is off course theirs but full background info is provided and all necessary counselling with a little booklet on instructions on HOW to do Istikhara etc.
5. Once the decision is made; more and detailed counselling on rights/responsibilities of husbands/wives; intimacy, children etc.
6. Local Mosques stays in touch and gives the chance to the newly-wed couple to ask any questions and ready to assist in case of any problems; WITHOUT being interfering and overbearing

5 & 6 are dead-important for reverts!

O Forgot! That would require organisation and us burying our differences. Sorry! Can’t do that. Scrap that idea at once…Good-God! Did I just recommend getting rid of sects!:SMILY288:

Asslamo Allaikum,

With the utmost respect to some; in my humble opinion what is missing is a system.

I watch little girls play and skip rope at our Islamic school and I am sure all of you have seen it where two girls hold the rope and rotate and other girls get in the middle and start jumping. When they get tired someone else gets in the middle and starts jumping as long as the rope is still rotating. Sometimes they get it wrong so they start again; but once the system (game) is known, its easy.

So we need a SYSTEM in place to sort out issues with Reverts & Born-Muslims, knowledge and education will help (no doubt) but once you put systems, processes and mechanisms in place then its like a rotating rope; whoever wants to start skipping can just join in, and have fun!

Social issues are the similar for Reverts & Born-Muslims Not same but similar.

Masha Allah...Very good proposals. The problem is that there is not a proper system. Everybody take matters in their own hands.
e.g If we know reaction mechanisms we are able to determine the nature and result of any chemical reaction, organic or inorganic. I hope that I did not mess up.
 
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