Is "TurnToIslam" just a Xenophobic anit-Shi'a Forum?

Discussion in 'Deviated Sects, And Callers' started by Jasir01, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. Jasir01
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    Jasir01 New Member

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    Looking at the threads in this Forum section, it seems to me that TurnToIslam is just a xenophobic anti-Shi'a forum.

    It seems like the main objective is not to call people to Islam, but to call people away from Shi'a Islam.

    I know this forum is strictly moderated and a lot of post not even published (which shows the xenophobia).

    Are you anyhow sponsored by Saudi Arabia?
    (the most xenophobic country in the world, apart for anything which come from America, that is embraces as a gift from the heavens.)

    I guess you get my point.

    I think you just discredit yourself as a sectarian stronghold for Sa'udi sponsored Islam.

    It's sad, as I thought that Turn To Islam would be there for the convert Muslim community, but it seems to be run by some sectarian hardliners.
  2. Abu Sarah
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    Abu Sarah Allahu Akbar Staff Member

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    Assalam Alaykum brother,

    1st of All : why you didn't start your words by Assalam

    2nd: Sure brother All us Anti Deviated Sects, And Callers Who tarnish the image of True Islam and invent lies against Allah and His Messenger and his companions

    Turn To Islam mean that Turn To The True islam

    we make this forum for whom looking for the pure sources of islam and looking for the Truth and and whom wanna discover islam ,we explain eveything with evidences and if you have anything just come and discuss

    <wasalam>
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  3. Jasir01
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    Jasir01 New Member

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    Wa alaikum as Salam Abu Sarah.

    Who defines the term "True Islam" on this website?

    The two main streams of Sunni Islam only appeared 200 to 300 years after Hijra.

    Atharites (which are definitely the forerunners to the salafiyah movement) appeared arround 200 A.H.

    Asharaites (which most Sunni muslims belong to nowadays) appeared arround 300 A.H.


    You've got the Mutazilites and the Khawarij appearing before that.

    And you've got a movement evolving around the members of the Prophets (sawa) household coming about immediately after the shuhada of Prophet Muhammad (sawa).


    How can you possibly claim that True Islam came about 200 to 300 years after the Holy Messenger of Allah Abul Qasim Muhammad ibn Abdullah (sawa) was recalled?

    Where the many generations between this time all destined for hellfire? Or does your school teach you it was their free choice?

    Did their Iman decrease after Prophet Muhammad (sawa) left the community? Or does your school teach you it remained static and only their taqwa decreased, so that they followed the deviant sects (how you call all these movements prior to the founding of what is today known as Sunni Islam).

    Did they become kufar or did they only become fasiqun?

    Will they remain in hellfire forever (as followers of deviant sects) or only a counted number of days?


    Let me hear what "true Islam" says about this!
  4. Shishani
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    Shishani moderator Staff Member

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    Assalamu alaykum.

    Lie. Ahlusunnah are the sahabah and those who followed them.

    Lie. Athariyun and Salafiyun are those who follow the Salaf - Rasoolullah, sahabah and those after them.

    Lie. The majority of Sunnis aren't Asha'irah. They appeared later, from Jahmiyyah, Mu'tazilah etc., - they are not Ahlussunnah, because they deviate in their aqidah.

    Yes, and before them, - you have Ahlussunnah, the followers of Rasoolullah - first and foremost his SAHABAH!
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  5. JenGiove
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    JenGiove Junior Member

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    :salam2:

    If a non-Muslim like myself, who has no intention of reverting but only to expand my own personal knowledge of the world, can come to the conclusion that Sunni Muslims follow the true Islam as it was intended over Shia....what does that say about truth over falsehood?

    Your post was insulting in nature and serves not the propagation of peace within the Ummah but division and conflict. May Allah help you to examine your own behaviour and open your eyes to how you cause injury by the simple use of words.
  6. msmoorad
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    msmoorad mommys boy

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    salaams to all

    whats shia Islam? from what i know about your beliefs- its like someone saying "Christian Islam" or "Jewish Islam"
    there are plenty of xenophobic anti sunni forums on the net- u dont get sunni muslims going on there n complaining about it.
    so u want converts to have a skewed view of islam?
    if u want to choose the road to Jahannam- go ahead, but dont expect others to follow you.

    and Allah ta'ala knows best
  7. Perseveranze
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    Perseveranze Junior Member

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    Look.

    - Quran
    - Sunnah of the Prophet(pbuh)

    No more.
  8. tariq353
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    tariq353 Junior Member

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    :salam2:

    Really this amazes me.......Shia's are doing each and every thing which Prophet :saw: never ever heard of (Even changed the adhaan) and claiming that others are misguided.

    "Shia Islam" new term for me........but did Prophet :saw: preached Shia Islam??

    NO, HE JUST PREACHED ISLAM..

    Don't come up with your (deviated) version of Islam.
  9. harissnaseem
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    harissnaseem Member

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    Salam,
    I always like our Sunni brothers response to these divisive deviated sections in Muslims ummah with pure evidence and ratioanale. Bravo keep it up. Source of every guidance and success is Allah only. We devide or unite will be happening only when we stop blaming others except with true evidences. Shias and also muqallids always resort to the argument that Muslims should be united so don't talk, agreed Muslims should be united but must believe only in what has some evidence or is a result of discussion which is free, clean, open, logical, with high class etiquettes.
  10. MehmetHilmi
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    MehmetHilmi Junior Member

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    Selamun Aleykum,

    Unity with Shias is hard. Not because they have deviated beliefs (which they do), but because there are people on both sides who are intolerant of differences. Will the Shias ever listen and correct their ways, no. So we can respond to them all we want in logical explanations, it would be of no use. Therefore, there will be no such thing as unity as long as both sides don't agree to disagree. At this point, the only way we will unite is if we unite with our differences as it is impossible to create one monolithic interpretation of Islam and force it upon everyone (that is not going to happen). Come on, even Sunnis disagree with each other on many aspects. There are Sunnis, like myself, who are ok with whirling dervishes and music while there are others who view that as a grave sin. Forget the Shia Sunni differences, the differences among Sunnis is too great. Thus we must change our attitude from " those and those guys are deviated and wrong let's hate them", to "what can we do to promote peace and unity among people regardless of their backgrounds".
  11. harissnaseem
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    harissnaseem Member

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    Salam,
    Not only hard, it is impossible if you mean mixing together completely. Sunnis are not intolerant to Shia things. Beliefs: Shia can believe anything, but to put the facts wrongly and do not accept the clear evidences is the problem, like when u are under the sun and the other guys says it is night. First we want for them to accept what is in their highest books clearly and which is a Sunni point of view also.
    When we study in English medium we come across this word "interpretation", this word has always been used by non-Muslim writers to make all Muslims Sects to have confidence that they are legitimate/right and so remain divided and we now Muslims have also started to use the word, this word has no meaning in Islam. Islam is clear from Quran and Sunnah from what is available to us today. So we do not interpret Islam, it is one and it is there, but the people who stopped to understand Islam professed by the people before them and started believing anything due to wrong assessment of their intelligence and called it as their interpretation. Non-Muslims tell them, Well it is your interpretation and you are entitled to make a principle in your religion that everybody is entitled to his own interpretation, which is nothing but a CONSPIRACY to keep Muslims divided in sects each sect thinking that it is right. No my dear, first everyone must acknowledge The Truth is one.
    Sunnis do not hate Shias, do not thrust your observation on Sunnis as a fact. We may get excited or upset when they keep on saying it is night. We are not angry with Shias and should not/will not be happy to harm them, so this is a wrong observation. We have only a feeling of frustration, that's all.
    Islam does not depend on Muslims actions, it is based upon Quran and Sunnah. Everyone must be tolerant to everyone be it any Muslim sect, Christian or anyone but as Islam's teaching we do not mix them for just to unite as during prophet's (sallalahoalaihiwasallam) time Kuffar wanted to mix, the Allah and the prophet (sallalahoalaihiwasallam) did not agree and Surah Kafiroon was sent by Allah to tell all who do not accept Him and the Prophet to keep their deen/system/religion separate and do not try to swap parts of the deens.
    Rasool Allah (sallalahoalaihiwasallam) has told us that one group is right and all groups are wrong, that in no way means we are angry or going to make harm to others. We produce logic, evidence common sense to bring them to right thinking only. Sunnis disagree because they disregard the authentic hadiths and try to follow someone from the Ummat e Muslima. For example, they say regarding some hadith, Imam Bukhari was Shafai so he has written the point of view of Imam Shafai. This is not the correct way to disregard an authentic hadith, produce your logic contrary to the hadith and then reject.
    What we can do is to make them accept common sense, clear evidences then good and bad will go the opposite ways. For example let them accept it was Omar and Abu Bakr due to who we are who we are now after the death of Rasool Allah (sallalahoalaihiwasallam). It was Omar's leadership when the whole Iran was converted to Islam, they owe him, but what they do is amazing, un-understandable and stupid.
  12. MehmetHilmi
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    MehmetHilmi Junior Member

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    You are right. But think about it like this. Understanding the Quran and Sunnah is not as easy as as being under the sun and saying that it is light outside. It is hard for non-Scholarly people to read the Quran and Hadith and pull out the true intended meaning from them. So what do we do? We rely on trusted scholars to interpret and explain the Quran and Sunnah to us. But even the scholars who have spent their entire life devoted to studying the Holy Quran and Sunnah sometimes disagree with one another. SO the difference of interpretation is inevitable.

    I don't think that difference of interpretation was brought by non-Muslims. Even Muslims right after the Holy Prophet (saw), were at odds with each other, hence the Islamic civil wars.

    Oh well, Im kind of deviating from my point. I think the real problem is the absence of a Caliphate. With a Caliphate, there was a central voice for the Sunni Muslims. Now, who speaks for us? It is a pity that what was once a global superpower, a religious light, a beacon of learning is now nothing. We need an official Islamic voice. It's like our religion is in anarchy.

    Please correct me if I'm wrong. This is what I think of the situation. :)
  13. Signor
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    The Basis of Shi’ah-Sunni Discord
    By: Dr. Israr Ahmad

    The following paragraphs about Shi’ah-Sunni differences are written from a Sunni perspective; Shi’ah Muslims may not agree with all of it.

    The history of the Shi’ah-Sunni Conflict is almost as old as that of the Muslim Ummah. Only 25 years after the death of the Prophet (saw), internal discord and a series of civil wars started. This has been referred to in the history books as the “Al-Fitnatul Kubra” or the Great Discord. What was the cause of this internal conflict?

    Every revolution is followed by counter-revolutionary movements, which seek to overthrow the new order and to revert back to the previous system. Many of these counter-revolutionary movements were dealt with by the first Caliph, Abu Bakr (raa). However, there were still two groups who openly resented both Islam and the Prophet of Islam, and these were the Jews of Arabia and the Persians. The Jews were angry because they were expecting the final prophet to be one of the Israelites, and they could never accept and reconcile themselves with the fact that he turned out to be someone from the Gentiles. (The envy of the Jews of Madinah is mentioned in Surah Al-Baqarah. It is also mentioned there that they refuse to believe in the Prophet even after recognizing him as the promised one, only because of their jealousy and arrogance). The other group that never accepted the ascendancy of Islam were the Persians, who developed a special hatred towards the second Caliph, Umar (raa), under whose era Iran was conquered. Indeed, it was a Persian man who killed Umar (raa).


    During the later years of the Caliphate of Uthman (raa) an underground conspiracy was hatched, led by Abdullah Ibn Saba, a Jew who had outwardly converted to Islam, in order to produce political unrest. The conspiracy succeeded, mainly because a lack of proper communication facilities in those days made the spread of rumors against the Khalifah rather easy. This resulted in a rebellion against Uthman (raa) on various fabricated charges of nepotism, and he was martyred in the course of the rebellion. In this chaotic situation, Ali (raa) became the next Caliph. A disagreement arose among the Muslims about the killers of Uthman (raa). Some demanded that the killers, who were hiding among the supporters of Ali (raa), must be punished immediately. Ali (raa) was of the opinion that we need some sort of order and peace to return before we can do this. These two groups were known as the “Shi’ah of Uthman” and the “Shi’ah of Ali” meaning the pro-Uthman and the pro-Ali parties. As you can see, this was a purely political disagreement, not a religious one. The “Shi’ah of Uthman” later became known as the “Sunni” and the “Shi’ah of Ali” became just “Shi’ah.”


    The Shi’ah community has four points of distinction as compared to the Sunni Muslims. The first is the school of jurisprudence they follow, which is Fiqh Jafari, and it is just like Fiqh Hanafi, or Maliki etc., except that “Muta’h” or temporary marriage is considered lawful by the Fiqh Jafari, whereas it is prohibited in all the Sunni schools. The second is the Shi’ah belief in the “infallible Immamate,” which means that only a genuine “Imam” who will be a direct descendent of Ali (raa) and Fatima (raa), can authentically lead the Muslims. The Sunnis believe, on the other hand, that the trait of “infallibility” no longer exists after the termination of Prophethood. There are a number of divisions among the Shi’ah, e.g., the “Twelvers” believe that the 12th Imam disappeared and went into seclusion somewhere 870 A.D., and that he will reappear to lead the Muslims (the promised “Mahdi”). The Sunni Muslims, on the other hand, believe that the promised “Mahdi” will be a normal human being, an Arab Muslim who will lead the struggle for the domination of Islam sometime in the future. Thirdly, whereas the Shi’ah community believes that the first three Caliphs, Abu Bakr (raa) and Umar (raa) and Uthman (raa), were usurpers, and that only Ali (raa) was the rightful successor of the Prophet, the Sunnis believe that all four of the “Khulafa” were rightfully chosen by the Muslims and none of them was a usurper. Fourthly, the Shi’ahs accept only those Ahadith (traditions of the Prophet (saw)) which are transmitted by the household of the Prophet (Ahl Al-Baiyt) by which they mean Ali (raa), Fatima (raa), and their two sons, Hasan (raa) and Husain (raa) and their descendants; they refuse to accept the traditions which are transmitted by most of the other Companions (Sahaba) of the Prophet (saw).

    It may be noted that Sunni scholars have criticized the beliefs of the Shi’ahs for hundreds of years, and have written a very large number of books to refute the Shi’ah beliefs. Some scholars have even declared the Shi’ahs to be kafirs. However, there has been no consensus on this, i.e., there has been no collective verdict of apostasy (Kufr) against the Shi’ahs (as was given in the case of the Qadiyani community), and therefore the Shi’ahs too are considered Muslims, despite their having beliefs which are against those of mainstream Sunni Islam.

    Finally, note that during the early centuries of Islam, Shi’ism was synonymous with an attitude of uprightness on the part of the descendants of Ali (raa) and Fatima (raa), and their courage to speak out against the rulers and to resist their unjust actions even in the face of oppression. The present sectarian version of Shi’ism is a later development which took shape especially during the rule of the Safavid dynasty in Iran (1501-1732). The Safavids wanted to foster a distinct religious identity in Iran so as to maintain the population’s loyalty in the conflict against the powerful Sunni Ottoman Empire, and for this purpose they had imported Shi’ah Ulama from Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon and provided them with wealth and power. This distinction between the Alavid and the Safavid versions of Shi’ism was emphasized by Dr. Ali Shari’ati. According to some analysts, the Iranian revolution has revived the Alavid Shi’ism, and the Safavid Shi’ism is on the decline. According to them, the stress is now gradually shifting towards the dynamic teachings of Islam and the Muslim Ummah’s unity, rather than hairsplitting on historical, doctrinal, or juristic matters. If this happens, it would be very beneficial for the Muslim Ummah
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