MISWAK OR TOOTH BRUSH OR BOTH

[saif]

:salam2: brother

I hope you are in the best of health and eeman.

Brother would you like to define Sunnah? What is Sunnah?

Dear brother,
Assalamu Alaikum

Alhamdulillah, I am fine. Thank you for your query. Following two articles with inshaAllah explain everything:

http://www.renaissance.com.pk/jafelif986.html
http://www.monthly-renaissance.com/issue/content.aspx?id=77

 

[daywalker]

I still reiterate my point, that all ahadith about increased virtues of salat after miswak also remain true for tooth brush. If you cannot find a tooth brush and too paste to use 15 times a day, that's a practical difficulty. That does not nullifies my point, that the Prophet is concerned about the cleanliness of our teeth and not necessarily about explaining us the advantages of miswaks of a particular tree.

:salam2:

Akhi then wasting time with a point which is in practial life difficult? I will do miswak 15 time without hurting my health and practising sunnah. and you will hurt your health by using 5 time tooth-past and brush, where its haram to knowingly do something which harms your body!

so why earning haram by using tooth brush 5 time, and why not earning reward of sunnah by using miswak 15 time?

 

[daywalker]

http://www.monthly-renaissance.com/issue/content.aspx?id=77

Javed Ahmad Ghamidi

you are getting understanding of Sunnah from a person who dont even have beards and self taught deviant mujtahid! :astag:

my sincere request to you brother, stay away from him and his deviant thoughts. study deen with reliable scholars inshallah. its about your own akhirah.

 

[saif]

you are getting understanding of Sunnah from a person who dont even have beards and self taught deviant mujtahid! :astag:

my sincere request to you brother, stay away from him and his deviant thoughts. study deen with reliable scholars inshallah. its about your own akhirah.

That's your opinion. If you look carefully, he does have beard. Excepting a few points, where I have my differences with him, I mostly agree with his thoughts. Instead of my scholar-your scholar debate, I would appreciate, if could point out any difficulties in the articles.

 

[saif]

:salam2:

Akhi then wasting time with a point which is in practial life difficult? I will do miswak 15 time without hurting my health and practising sunnah. and you will hurt your health by using 5 time tooth-past and brush, where its haram to knowingly do something which harms your body!

so why earning haram by using tooth brush 5 time, and why not earning reward of sunnah by using miswak 15 time?

That's good for you. The only thing i want to prove is, that if I clean my teeth only two times then I am also fulfilling the Sunnah two times. If you recognize, that Tooth brush is also a sunnah, because it cleans the teeth, then that's all, what I want to prove.

 

[daywalker]

If you recognize, that Tooth brush is also a sunnah, because it cleans the teeth, then that's all, what I want to prove.

:salam2: you mean Tooth brush is sunnah, which will harm your health if you use more than 3 time a day, where prophet(sw) said i would recommand everybody to do miswak before every salah which is 5 time? you mean prophet(sw) would force us to do something which may be hurtful for our health?

you mean i should accept Tooth brush as sunnah cause it helps 2 time only but if i want to use 5 time it will harm my body? thats your logic of hadith , sunnah and Islam?

 

[daywalker]

That's your opinion. If you look carefully, he does have beard.

yep my bro also get beards like him after few days for not having enough time to shave.

Excepting a few points, where I have my differences with him, I mostly agree with his thoughts. Instead of my scholar-your scholar debate, I would appreciate, if could point out any difficulties in the articles.

Akhi instead agreeing with the result he brings, study Usool under scholars, then hear his result and then try to match his logic. WAllahi you will not been able to agree with him in numerious incident.

Not everything which may sound good, is not in reality good. Imaam Ahmad stating to Al-Maymuni, "Never speak over any matter in which you do not have an Imaam (i.e. to imitate)."

and javid sahib is self-taught Mujtahid.

 

[saif]

:salam2: you mean Tooth brush is sunnah, which will harm your health if you use more than 3 time a day, where prophet(sw) said i would recommand everybody to do miswak before every salah which is 5 time? you mean prophet(sw) would force us to do something which may be hurtful for our health?

you mean i should accept Tooth brush as sunnah cause it helps 2 time only but if i want to use 5 time it will harm my body? thats your logic of hadith , sunnah and Islam?

:salam2:
Ok, we can stop this discussion here. If you are so sure, that tooth brush is harmful, then it should be haram in your opinion. And it is a valid option to perform the sunnah of cleaning the teeth is my opinion. Full stop.

 

[saif]

yep my bro also get beards like him after few days for not having enough time to shave.

Akhi instead agreeing with the result he brings, study Usool under scholars, then hear his result and then try to match his logic. WAllahi you will not been able to agree with him in numerious incident.

Not everything which may sound good, is not in reality good. Imaam Ahmad stating to Al-Maymuni, "Never speak over any matter in which you do not have an Imaam (i.e. to imitate)."

and javid sahib is self-taught Mujtahid.

:salam2:

It's other way round. I agree with him in Usool but disagree with him in some results.

 

[saif]

:salam2:
By the way, he is not self-taught. Are you sure, you are not confusing him with Al-Albani? He has learned deen under Amin Ahsan Islahi.

 

[IbnAhmad]

salaam

alhamdulilah i use both of them

wassalam

 

[ruki4eva]

:salam2:
i use tooth brush mostly but Alhamdulillah miswak aswel sometimes

 

[daywalker]

I agree with him in Usool but disagree with him in some results.

:salam2: thats why i am saying you should learn Usool from salaf, and not the Usool understood or mentioned by him or written by him.

If a person fails to get usool of beard via 10 hadith where prophet(sw) to let grow beard, his Usool is really fit for my nafs.

:salam2:
Ok, we can stop this discussion here. If you are so sure, that tooth brush is harmful, then it should be haram in your opinion.

:salam2: i dont need to be sure, cause its not my own opinion. ask dentist inshallah, as i am not wellversed in matter of teeth, and i am mentioning what dentist said.

 

[helpinghumanity]

:salam2:
By the way, he is not self-taught. Are you sure, you are not confusing him with Al-Albani? He has learned deen under Amin Ahsan Islahi.

It useless to debate.....The thing is you have to see that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said. And after that its upto you whether you want to accept what Prophit Muhammad (PBUH) said or what some one else said.

Let me give you a plain simple hadith

Narrated Abu huraira

Allah's Apostle said, "If i had not found it hard for my followers or the people, i would have ordered them to clean their teeth with SIWAK for every prayer."

The link for a collection of hadith from sahih muslim about siwak is

http://miraclebrush.com/index2.php?option=content&do_pdf=1&id=23


If you analyze this hadith...it say clean teeth WITH SIWAK........it did not said TO CLEAN YOUR TEETH ONLY.....it said "TO CLEAN YOUR TEETH WITH SIWAK"

And after reading the above hadith for me it is sufficient to start using siwak and minimize colgate......lol...........but i dont know about you...

 

[saif]

:salam2: thats why i am saying you should learn Usool from salaf, and not the Usool understood or mentioned by him or written by him.

If a person fails to get usool of beard via 10 hadith where prophet(sw) to let grow beard, his Usool is really fit for my nafs.

Thank you for your concern. But how could you think, I was so careless about my akhira, that I would leave salaf and go to a deviant to learn Islam?

 

[daywalker]

:salam2:
By the way, he is not self-taught.

"self-taught" in the sense of known as modernist. I quote again comment of salaf: "Never speak over any matter in which you do not have an Imaam (i.e. to imitate)."

 

[daywalker]

But how could you think, I was so careless about my akhira, that I would leave salaf and go to a deviant to learn Islam?

If you want to know the name of a tree, look at its fruit. If you agree with javid sahib´s usool, then you are his fruit or? and bring book of salaf to kindergarten student, and bring javid sahib infront of them. they will be able to acknowledge the difference between salaf and javid saab.

 

[saif]

It useless to debate.....The thing is you have to see that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said. And after that its upto you whether you want to accept what Prophit Muhammad (PBUH) said or what some one else said.

My understanding is based on the same ahadith. Let me try it one last time. If not cleaning the teeth but cleaning the teeth with siwak is deen, then what is cleaning the teeth with tooth brush? Isn't it a bid'a then? I am sure you would "no". Then think about it, why is an innovation in the matters of deen not a bid'a?

My answer is, it is not a bid'a because it is not a matter of deen. Which medium is better, is a matter of science and if the answer is siwak, then I am more than glad to accept that.

 

[daywalker]

My answer is, it is not a bid'a because it is not a matter of deen. Which medium is better, is a matter of science and if the answer is siwak, then I am more than glad to accept that.

you are not allowed to fullfill the sunnah with a thing which harms your body! using 5 time tooth brush is harmful for your teeth! why a harmful thing will be considered as sunnah?

and the logic you are using has opend door of modernists like javid saab self, where his idiology and logic is 101% against the islamic shariah!

and WAllah ones akhirah is in dangour whose usool is against islamic shariah. who uses kalam against islamic law.

 

[saif]

:salam2: .....