Isra
aka Tree2008
Wa alaikome salam
I only used the word "debate" because thats what you originally said here....
Thats the only reason I told you to carry on with your debate.
wa salam
Muslim attitudes and jobs.
- Thread starter abu_tamim
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Wa alaikome salam
I only used the word "debate" because thats what you originally said here....
Thats the only reason I told you to carry on with your debate.
wa salam
Assalaam walaikum,
If you read my post you will see that I wrote : what is perceived as debate.
Thus, it is not debate.
I took this matter very seriously. We need to have attitude adjustments for many reasons. There is such a lack of compassion.
What I was trying to say is this: we can not take on the values of the plantation owner nor his overseer. They are not our values. So if the plantation owner wants to see me at noon...it makes no difference to me..he ain't my master.
If you read my post you will see that I wrote : what is perceived as debate.
Thus, it is not debate.
I took this matter very seriously. We need to have attitude adjustments for many reasons. There is such a lack of compassion.
What I was trying to say is this: we can not take on the values of the plantation owner nor his overseer. They are not our values. So if the plantation owner wants to see me at noon...it makes no difference to me..he ain't my master.
ilyas_eh
Used to be active here!
assalaamu 'alaykkum,
with lot of respect, I didnt get the impression from the brother that he is ashamed of India! Being ashamed of India or not, how is it going to help the hereafter??? Allah's help to be sought.
focus on uplifting the ummah. praising the land for its glory got nothing to do in islaam.
It is after all a simple and plain article.
i am not accusing you dear Aapa, but why members chose to complicate it so much that the main point is being ignored???
i too wish akhi Justoneinmillion read this. He applies logic masha Allah.
EDIT- I went incorrect due to that shaytanic nationalism.*sigh*
Assalaam walaikum,
I am focusing on us trying to assist each other. We need to help all mankind. How is this going to help in the hereafter. With good deeds. It is that simple.
When I read the words from the article that stated India was backwards etc. I automatically knew this language is the poison that has been spread to keep people from helping each other.
You have to educate yourself beyond the parameters that have been set up by those that do not serve Allah. You have to think outside the box that keeps you jailed.
In the practice of our faith we have to be productive. We have to enjoin good and forbid evil. We have to be active.
We also have to have an understanding of why groups of people have attitudes that may seem rude on the surface.
In my language the author of the article is someone who comes to the poor and oppressed on a high horse and the poor and oppressed simply pull him down. We do not need your assessment of what is wrong with us. We reject you and all that you stand for. You have no compassion, no understanding and your heart is serving the wrong master.
The poor and oppressed are well aware of their plight. Trust me. Read Malcolm X, read Fanon for that matter read Chomsky.
I am focusing on us trying to assist each other. We need to help all mankind. How is this going to help in the hereafter. With good deeds. It is that simple.
When I read the words from the article that stated India was backwards etc. I automatically knew this language is the poison that has been spread to keep people from helping each other.
You have to educate yourself beyond the parameters that have been set up by those that do not serve Allah. You have to think outside the box that keeps you jailed.
In the practice of our faith we have to be productive. We have to enjoin good and forbid evil. We have to be active.
We also have to have an understanding of why groups of people have attitudes that may seem rude on the surface.
In my language the author of the article is someone who comes to the poor and oppressed on a high horse and the poor and oppressed simply pull him down. We do not need your assessment of what is wrong with us. We reject you and all that you stand for. You have no compassion, no understanding and your heart is serving the wrong master.
The poor and oppressed are well aware of their plight. Trust me. Read Malcolm X, read Fanon for that matter read Chomsky.
ilyas_eh
Used to be active here!
wa 'alaykkum assalaam wa rahmathullahi wa barakatuhu
My Question was straight. I asked how being proud or ashamed of India will help me in the hereafter? I mean will basking in the glory of my ancestors have any good in this world or the hereafter? Rather we are in the same page when you said with good deeds. And believe me sister, in India, we need this kind of criticism given the state of the Ummah.
It is in the context of what is happening in India...
1) Muslims did not actively take part in independence.
2) Muslims are loyal to pakistan.
3) Muslims are backwards, unhealthy, unhygienic.
4) On the whole Muslim has got nothing to do with this country.
You have asked me to think outside the box,
so me thinking outside the box,
1) while only 20 out of 100 hindus died in freedom struggle, 30 out of 100 muslims died fighting against British oppression.
2) Muslims are not loyal to pakistan. A true muslim is well aware of the fact that nationalism has no ground in islam. An ignorant muslim is supporting the killing of Kashmiris by national forces in the name of terrorism.
3) Muslims gave up school education only because various scholars issued fatwas against going to school run by English oppressors.
with all that is being said,
the plight of muslims now is that we are not performing well in Education (very obvious if you live here and know the facts of the ground), we are discriminated in job as mentioned in a post, the deen is a personal affair here but there are so many people going to dargah, asking dead for intersession and what not.
What i am saying is that sister, we need constructive criticism like this(i know you would accept that).
and once again he is going to face Allah with what he wrote and i am going to stand before Allah with my own deeds, so it is not that i completely support or completely reject what he wrote, rather the message there is the need of the hour.
With All these, I love you for the sake of Allah. and i still remember how your post soothed me before i went for my second sailing, I bet you forgot that already.
wassalaamu 'alaykkum wa rahmathullah.
My Question was straight. I asked how being proud or ashamed of India will help me in the hereafter? I mean will basking in the glory of my ancestors have any good in this world or the hereafter? Rather we are in the same page when you said with good deeds. And believe me sister, in India, we need this kind of criticism given the state of the Ummah.
You are saying the mere statement "India was Backwards" affect you???? According to various surveys conducted by Indians (either by government or by non-governmental organization) clearly states Muslims are backwards in the country. I want to believe these surveys are biased. We need to push our brothers and sisters. We need to push them out of dargahs and push them to true islaam, to seek knowledge and to seek achievements in dunya.
You want to know the parameters set by those who don't serve Allah...
It is in the context of what is happening in India...
1) Muslims did not actively take part in independence.
2) Muslims are loyal to pakistan.
3) Muslims are backwards, unhealthy, unhygienic.
4) On the whole Muslim has got nothing to do with this country.
You have asked me to think outside the box,
so me thinking outside the box,
1) while only 20 out of 100 hindus died in freedom struggle, 30 out of 100 muslims died fighting against British oppression.
2) Muslims are not loyal to pakistan. A true muslim is well aware of the fact that nationalism has no ground in islam. An ignorant muslim is supporting the killing of Kashmiris by national forces in the name of terrorism.
3) Muslims gave up school education only because various scholars issued fatwas against going to school run by English oppressors.
with all that is being said,
the plight of muslims now is that we are not performing well in Education (very obvious if you live here and know the facts of the ground), we are discriminated in job as mentioned in a post, the deen is a personal affair here but there are so many people going to dargah, asking dead for intersession and what not.
Agreed alhamdulillah. Isn't criticizing people one of the way of correcting them? The one who wrote the article is going to stand before Allah with what he wrote and i am going to stand before Allah with my own deeds. But in my limited knowledge, what he said is apt to the Indian society. May be the geographical distance and the difference in your society's way of correcting others added up and you said what you said, I am not blaming you.
If indeed the article was only about the poor, or it is just you, it is completely wrong. I come from an area where the community is full of muslims and only a small percentage of my brothers who went to school with me got into good universities and got in to good job. As for the remaining, let me quote an imaam who was concerned about the society we live in, "we saw his father sitting in the departmental store and today we see him sitting at the same position". and most my friends (in fact my community) are rich.
What i am saying is that sister, we need constructive criticism like this(i know you would accept that).
and once again he is going to face Allah with what he wrote and i am going to stand before Allah with my own deeds, so it is not that i completely support or completely reject what he wrote, rather the message there is the need of the hour.
The brother is talking about the plight of (mainly) Muslims from India and their attitudes to their jobs. If all of us have to read Chomsky, Fanon before writing an article, then only the elite few would be able to write anything. Though i accept we have to read a lot.
With All these, I love you for the sake of Allah. and i still remember how your post soothed me before i went for my second sailing, I bet you forgot that already.
wassalaamu 'alaykkum wa rahmathullah.
Assalaam walaikum,
In the States criticism of the oppressed is subtle but there are many champions of the oppressed.
I have to admit one of the characteristics of this society is a much more equivocal attitude towards life.
I had forgotten how the evils of Hinduism have corrupted Islam. The caste system is alive and well.
As an outsider the article reeks of prejudice.
As an outsider it is easy to understand why the plight of the poor Muslims in India will not change.
It seems that those who are able to get jobs leave the poor just as they were.
Do you understand why there may be attitudes amongst the poor? Ideas are spread by the voice. Why is there no compassion towards the poor.
Finally, are we not told in the Quran for the rich man to seek the poor and help them without criticism for their condition. Where does that factor in?
In the States criticism of the oppressed is subtle but there are many champions of the oppressed.
I have to admit one of the characteristics of this society is a much more equivocal attitude towards life.
I had forgotten how the evils of Hinduism have corrupted Islam. The caste system is alive and well.
As an outsider the article reeks of prejudice.
As an outsider it is easy to understand why the plight of the poor Muslims in India will not change.
It seems that those who are able to get jobs leave the poor just as they were.
Do you understand why there may be attitudes amongst the poor? Ideas are spread by the voice. Why is there no compassion towards the poor.
Finally, are we not told in the Quran for the rich man to seek the poor and help them without criticism for their condition. Where does that factor in?
ilyas_eh
Used to be active here!
wa 'alaykkum assalaam wa rahmathullahi wa barakatuhu.
I do not want to talk about the all other oppressed communities of India and their own heroes. But the former president of India and the renowned scientist Abdul Kalaam, was from poor family and had to sell newspapers while studying. He struggled almost throughout his school years college years and the way he struggled and attained the high position is just awesome to read. Just pointing out that we have our heroes. (His Deen, wallahu 'aalim)
Where are you getting the impression that it is talking only about the poor? The Article is about how muslims compete with others w.r.t. Jobs. You must be unaware of whats happening in India. The students from middle class family and upper class family leave schools as the brother pointed out. They are satisfied with their gulf jobs or looking after their father's business. I could have been easily among one of them.
Thanks that you wrote "outsider's view". I can imagine how foolish i would look, if i were to comment on socio-economic situation in US or Europe.
I am not going to answer about your question on poor, I want to cling on to the topic and the context it is talking about. The article is not about poor muslims of India. Not that we are not concerned but it is not what is being discussed here. (a true Muslim is always concerned about his/her poor brothers, and wish the zakaah system works out) I need your understanding.
Quote the verse, insha Allah. Not that i am being arrogant, I want to learn.
If Ummah were to make all the simple issue complicated, may Allah teach the ummah. barak Allahu feeki. wassalaamu 'alayk.
Assalaam walaikum,
In rereading the original post I have to say I stand my ground.
Let me make my point plain and simple:
This attack on Muslims is from a point of view of one who has taken on the attitude of the house slave.
The error in this is the house slave forgets he is the same as the field slave. The house slave is still a slave. He is the one used by the master to oppress the field slave.
There can be no change until the house slave understands he is only a tool to do the dirty work of the master. The house slave wants to be like the master.
This article is judgmental. Did the author take time to talk to the poor and uneducated. I know he didn't. He couldn't.
I am very saddened by this article. The Muslims in India need to assist each other. They need to throw away the greed left by the white man and the white mans attitudes.
Give me a minute to look up the exact ayat from the Quran. In the meantime 59:5 is worth a look.
In rereading the original post I have to say I stand my ground.
Let me make my point plain and simple:
This attack on Muslims is from a point of view of one who has taken on the attitude of the house slave.
The error in this is the house slave forgets he is the same as the field slave. The house slave is still a slave. He is the one used by the master to oppress the field slave.
There can be no change until the house slave understands he is only a tool to do the dirty work of the master. The house slave wants to be like the master.
This article is judgmental. Did the author take time to talk to the poor and uneducated. I know he didn't. He couldn't.
I am very saddened by this article. The Muslims in India need to assist each other. They need to throw away the greed left by the white man and the white mans attitudes.
Give me a minute to look up the exact ayat from the Quran. In the meantime 59:5 is worth a look.
sigh...
I won't even bother defending myself against these ad hominem attacks.
http://www.milligazette.com/news/1190-impunity-in-disposing-off-rape-case-of-an-indian-muslim-girl
:ws:
ilyas_eh
Used to be active here!
assalaamu 'alaykkum wa rahmathullah.
I am going definitely off topic. But how many cases of rape, unjustice and unfair detention of muslim in prison do we need to stand up ourselves and fight for justice? Insha Allah we can do our small part. Force the imaam during friday Khutbah to let people know that is happening across the states. The less privileged muslims are easy targets for these animals, but there is no way forward except teaching them Islaam and making them aware of the plots of these transgressed kuffars. Subhan Allah may Allah forgive the sin of the sister and admit her to paradise.
Assalaam walaikum,
Here are a few ayats to speak clearly for what I am unable to communicate:
2:273
(Charity is) for those in need, who, in Allah.s cause are restricted (from travel), and cannot move about in the land, seeking (For trade or work): the ignorant man thinks, because of their modesty, that they are free from want. Thou shalt know them by their (Unfailing) mark: They beg not importunately from all the sundry. And whatever of good ye give, be assured Allah knoweth it well.
274. Those who (in charity) spend of their goods by night and by day, in secret and in public, have their reward with their Lord: on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
And 9:60
“As-Sadaqaat (here it means Zakaah) are only for the Fuqaraa’ (poor), and Al‑Masaakeen (the poor) and those employed to collect (the funds); and to attract the hearts of those who have been inclined (towards Islam); and to free the captives; and for those in debt; and for Allaah’s Cause (i.e. for Mujaahidoon — those fighting in a holy battle), and for the wayfarer (a traveller who is cut off from everything); a duty imposed by Allaah. And Allaah is All-Knower, All-Wise”
[al-Tawbah 9:60]
Brother,
You dismiss my thoughts as unworthy. That is your choice.
That does not change the condition of our Muslim brothers and sisters and our duty to them.
You point your finger at the less unfortunate and you criticize them for being poor.
Brother, do you know the pain they hold in their hearts; do you understand the dilemma they face each day to survive.
Our faith incites us to help our family. Use our resources to aid everyone for the love of Allah.
Count your blessings and amongst the blessings we have is our abilities to do good deeds beyond zakah. It is all about opening your heart to the conditions of mankind.
We are told that Allah subhana talla gave us differences such-that we can discover we are the same.
Here are a few ayats to speak clearly for what I am unable to communicate:
2:273
(Charity is) for those in need, who, in Allah.s cause are restricted (from travel), and cannot move about in the land, seeking (For trade or work): the ignorant man thinks, because of their modesty, that they are free from want. Thou shalt know them by their (Unfailing) mark: They beg not importunately from all the sundry. And whatever of good ye give, be assured Allah knoweth it well.
274. Those who (in charity) spend of their goods by night and by day, in secret and in public, have their reward with their Lord: on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
And 9:60
“As-Sadaqaat (here it means Zakaah) are only for the Fuqaraa’ (poor), and Al‑Masaakeen (the poor) and those employed to collect (the funds); and to attract the hearts of those who have been inclined (towards Islam); and to free the captives; and for those in debt; and for Allaah’s Cause (i.e. for Mujaahidoon — those fighting in a holy battle), and for the wayfarer (a traveller who is cut off from everything); a duty imposed by Allaah. And Allaah is All-Knower, All-Wise”
[al-Tawbah 9:60]
Brother,
You dismiss my thoughts as unworthy. That is your choice.
That does not change the condition of our Muslim brothers and sisters and our duty to them.
You point your finger at the less unfortunate and you criticize them for being poor.
Brother, do you know the pain they hold in their hearts; do you understand the dilemma they face each day to survive.
Our faith incites us to help our family. Use our resources to aid everyone for the love of Allah.
Count your blessings and amongst the blessings we have is our abilities to do good deeds beyond zakah. It is all about opening your heart to the conditions of mankind.
We are told that Allah subhana talla gave us differences such-that we can discover we are the same.
queenislam
★★★I LOVE ALLAH★★★
Islam Is So Beautiful.
:salam2:
Thank you
for sharing your thought.
Congratulation on being employed in Singapore.
Brother.
Among
the many uneducated muslim in India
like you mentioned there are many educated too like yourself.
And
the many uneducated non muslim like many educated muslim
were given an opportunity fair deal just like the muslims in many hightech Islamic country like Dubai and such.
:ma:
Only Allah swt Knows Best!
¬May Allah swt help and guide us¬Amin!
Take care!
¬Wassalam.
:salam2:
Thank you
for sharing your thought.
Congratulation on being employed in Singapore.
Brother.
Among
the many uneducated muslim in India
like you mentioned there are many educated too like yourself.
And
the many uneducated non muslim like many educated muslim
were given an opportunity fair deal just like the muslims in many hightech Islamic country like Dubai and such.
:ma:
Only Allah swt Knows Best!
¬May Allah swt help and guide us¬Amin!
Take care!
¬Wassalam.
:salam2:
sister. I am employed in India. The company that has employed me is based in the UK & Singapore as well as in India. I was not praising myself for getting a job or running others down for "being poor" as someone so glibly said. Rather I was trying to push across the idea in my own clumsy way that we can do it...if we are but willing to try.For those who are trying to spread the pernicious belief that Time is of no importance in Islam and should be of no importance to the Muslims, here is a good article on the importance of time in Islam:
"Take benefit of five before five:
your youth before your old age,
your health before your sickness,
your wealth before your poverty,
your free-time before your preoccupation,
and your life before your death."[Hadith- al-Haakim, al-Bayhaqee, Saheeh]
MANY people forget or neglect the importance of time although man's life on earth is a span of time. Islam gives due attention to the issue of time because if people waste their time, they are actually wasting their life.
The Noble Qur'an gives due attention to the idea of time and this is clear in many verses of the Qur'an when Allah swears using the different places of times of the day to reveal the importance of time, "By the break of Day," (Qur'an, 1:89) "By (the Token of) Time (through the ages),' (Qur'an, 1:103) etc.
Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Alyhi Wa Sallam says in one Hadith: "There are two things that people are not aware of how important they are: health and time." This Hadith stresses two facts: People are not aware of the importance of being in good health till they fall ill and people are not aware of the importance of time and therefore waste their time doing trivial things.
There was research published in one of the magazines about how man spends his time. The research revealed that if man lives for 60 years, he spends one third of his life sleeping because man usually sleeps eight hours a day. Remaining years are spent in public transportation, watching TV, eating, in the bathroom.etc. This means that the larger part of man's life is spent in worldly matters. If a person, Karen Armstrong, refers to this aspect of time in Prophet Muhammad's Sallallahu Alyhi Wa Sallam life. She indicated that what the Prophet Sallallahu Alyhi Wa Sallam did in 23 years was miraculous and what he accomplished required thousands of philosophers, reformers, intellectuals and mentors to do in hundreds of years.
To realize the value of ONE YEAR, ask a student who has failed a grade.
To realize the value of ONE MONTH, ask a mother who has given birth to a pre-mature baby.
To realize the value of ONE WEEK, ask an editor of a weekly newspaper.
To realize the value of ONE DAY, ask a daily wage labourer who has kids to feed.
To realize the value of ONE HOUR, ask the bride who is waiting to meet her groom
To realize the value of ONE MINUTE, ask a person who has missed the train.
To realize the value of ONE SECOND, ask a person who has avoided an accident.
To realize the value of ONE MILLI-SECOND, ask the person who has won a silver medal in the Olympics.
The Characteristics of Time
We are to bear in mind that time has certain characteristics, among of which are the following:
Time passes quickly.
Time that passes can never return, nor can it be compensated for, for time is irretrievable.
Time is the most precious thing that man possesses.
The following are some of the most important duties demanded of Muslims:
Ensuring benefitting from time.
Utilizing leisure time.
Racing for good deeds.
Learning from the passage of time.
Seeking the superior times.
Planning and organizing time.
Fulfillment of time commitments.
Necessary awareness of time wasters.
One of the methods of managing his time properly is for a Muslim to get up early and sleep early, for early hours always yield great blessings. Starting his day with prayer and the supplication of the morning brings the Muslim Allah's grace. A Muslim should always bear in mind that every time has its own task that suits it. Doing tasks in their due times brings about peace of mind and comfort. The most important aspect being gaining such knowledge of Islam that will enable and empower one to do such actions at a given time that pleases Allah abundantly! A Muslim is disciplined and uses every second constructively and productively!
Narrated Abdullah Bin Mas`ud Allah's Messenger Sallallahu Alyhi Wa Sallam said:"A man shall be asked concerning five things on the day of resurrection: concerning his life, how he spent it; concerning his youth, how he grew old; concerning his wealth, whence he acquired it, and in what way he spent it; and what was it that he did with the knowledge that he had." [Hadith]
May Allah guide us to use our time correctly and beneficially!!!...Ameen
=================================================
And lastly a verse from the Qur'an regarding prayers on time:
Allah Most High says, "Verily prayer has been prescribed for believers at duly-appointed times." 4:103
Wannabemuslim
Junior Member
:salam2: this world and its in gods hands, but we are put here as a test to fight arrogance and evil and if we do nothing we arnt good slaves of god ie muslims, as the prophet muhammad (peace be upon him) said
"When a muslim sees something evil he is to stop it with his hand, if he cant, he is to stop it with his tongue , if he cant then at least ankowledge it is wrong in his heart- if one does this he is the lowest level of emaan."
"When a muslim sees something evil he is to stop it with his hand, if he cant, he is to stop it with his tongue , if he cant then at least ankowledge it is wrong in his heart- if one does this he is the lowest level of emaan."
Assalaam walaikum,
Brother,
You have the answers for everything. So be it.
You are always correct. So be it.
You have no understanding of the whys and wherefores of life. So be it.
I pray that you are never tested as some us have been; when we stop judging and start living.
Funny thing: Karen Armstrong is not a Muslim. Why would you dig up a white woman who is not a Muslim to respond to sister of color?
I am through!!!!
Brother,
You have the answers for everything. So be it.
You are always correct. So be it.
You have no understanding of the whys and wherefores of life. So be it.
I pray that you are never tested as some us have been; when we stop judging and start living.
Funny thing: Karen Armstrong is not a Muslim. Why would you dig up a white woman who is not a Muslim to respond to sister of color?
I am through!!!!
- Status