Muslim Family Breakdown: Great Challenge to Muslims in the West

[hayat84]

salam 'likum,are there many divorces between muslims?Why do you think that the husband is the first who wants divorce?if the wife is a good one,I don't see any reason to get divorced.but not all the husbands are equal.if only the partners respected themselves,there would be more peace.having married a maroccan boy,I have started learning arabic to understand his family,I am shy by nature and my god-parents are the best people I've ever known.I'm loved from each side I turn my eyes,alhamdulillah.which couple would get separated after it got joined?
there is the verse of a song which says<who's too much loved doesn't give love back.>and<who's less loved gives more love back>.it's chemistry.and Allah's Will.
my opinion is not referred to anybody,I regret for the ones who had to divorce because of the mistakes of the husband/violence...

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam alaikum,

Statistics sister. There exists a world outside of rational thought. The reasons for divorce are many. Sometimes people just do not get along. Sometimes a partner grows in a different direction. Sometimes people just get bored with the same partner. Men get bored much faster than women with the same partner. That is a fact of life.

 

[tic_tac_toe]

Assalaam alaikum,

Statistics sister. There exists a world outside of rational thought. The reasons for divorce are many. Sometimes people just do not get along. Sometimes a partner grows in a different direction. Sometimes people just get bored with the same partner. Men get bored much faster than women with the same partner. That is a fact of life.

:salam2:

Sorry but I am confused about what you want to discuss? And more importantly, do you want to discuss it from an Islamic perspective or state divorce laws of wherever you may be residing? Because firstly there is no Islamic command for the "Ex" husband to maintain his wife until she gets married, secondly there is no Islamic command which entitles her to alimony or maintenance payments, thirdly if you are an ardent supporter of polygyny then it cuts both ways i.e. a man is free to marry a divorcee or free to marry someone less then half his age and this is no Islamic injunction for him to marry a divorcee or a widow etc.

So if a man divorces his 50 year old wife flies off to Pakistan and married a 19 year old and bring her to the states and as a result the 50 year old Ex-wife becomes destitute and penniless then although you may consider this morally repugnant he has neither done anything against Islam nor broken any laws so what precisely is the basis of your argument besides feeling remorse for Sisters in distress?

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam alaikum,

My argument is simple. How can a man consider himself a Lover of Allah subhana wa taala if he can discard a human life so easily. It is not the matter of command. It is goes to compassion. To wish to enter paradise is beyond command. Even from a business point of view..would you consider doing business with a man who did dirty to his wife? I would not. That which he entered he has tossed aside; that is not saying much about his character.


My point is this: In the economic reality of our times what compensation is being made for the parties. If a woman is penniless in this society she has two choices. One is to become a recipient of welfare, she becomes a dependent of the kufr. As you say the man has no obligation to support her how does he fare in the light of Islam by allowing a Muslim woman to be dependent on a system that he abhors. The second choice is what many women do; they prostitute. Not on the street but they do prostitute.

You are agreeing that it is good and right for Muslim women to be welfare recipient because the ex-husband has no financial obligation. Please be very clear. You see nothing wrong with good sisters having to go to churches and synagogues to beg for money. It is agreeable for you to send your sisters in faith to kufr men for sustenance.

This topic is about living in the west. This is not about the divorcee overseas who goes to mommy and daddy and is treated like the servant with a plague.There is no extended family for her to fall back on. I think this is what you do not recognize. I am fully aware of your knowledge brother. That is why I feel I can discuss this issue with you. However, I do not think you are aware of the overall bleak economic and social structure. That is what I am trying to address.

My reasons for promoting polygamy is to prevent good sisters having to beg for a living. Your arguments are weak brother. You have reduced women to bodies that are used and discarded. You failed to mention that Allah subhana wa taala has promised us He would provide.


As for the scenario of the man divorcing the 50 year and bringing a 19 year old fresh off the boat from Pakistan. Trust me the 50 year old ex got the last laugh. Why, she might even give him a bottle of aspirin. Think of the wives of the Prophet,swas, and how they had to content with the silliness of Ayisha. The young wife would get jealous of his daughter.

That is cultural issue of age. We need to discuss that on another thread. In the US we are not hung up on age; I have noticed women my age from the other Muslim countries consider themselves old. Not healthy. They seem to be mourning.

In summary, it is disconcerting as usual to find that many Muslim men have little heart. The Prophet, swas, told us to be gentle to womenfolk. We wonder why the state of Muslims is appalling. Well, look how you treat your womenfolk. Use them, abuse them, and toss them out. Get a new improved model. we do not have the extended family anymore.


A woman can divorce a 45 year old man and marry a 24 year old. And have fun, for a little while.

 

[tic_tac_toe]

Assalaam alaikum,

My argument is simple. How can a man consider himself a Lover of Allah subhana wa taala if he can discard a human life so easily. It is not the matter of command. It is goes to compassion. To wish to enter paradise is beyond command. Even from a business point of view..would you consider doing business with a man who did dirty to his wife? I would not. That which he entered he has tossed aside; that is not saying much about his character.


My point is this: In the economic reality of our times what compensation is being made for the parties. If a woman is penniless in this society she has two choices. One is to become a recipient of welfare, she becomes a dependent of the kufr. As you say the man has no obligation to support her how does he fare in the light of Islam by allowing a Muslim woman to be dependent on a system that he abhors. The second choice is what many women do; they prostitute. Not on the street but they do prostitute.

You are agreeing that it is good and right for Muslim women to be welfare recipient because the ex-husband has no financial obligation. Please be very clear. You see nothing wrong with good sisters having to go to churches and synagogues to beg for money. It is agreeable for you to send your sisters in faith to kufr men for sustenance.

This topic is about living in the west. This is not about the divorcee overseas who goes to mommy and daddy and is treated like the servant with a plague.There is no extended family for her to fall back on. I think this is what you do not recognize. I am fully aware of your knowledge brother. That is why I feel I can discuss this issue with you. However, I do not think you are aware of the overall bleak economic and social structure. That is what I am trying to address.

My reasons for promoting polygamy is to prevent good sisters having to beg for a living. Your arguments are weak brother. You have reduced women to bodies that are used and discarded. You failed to mention that Allah subhana wa taala has promised us He would provide.


As for the scenario of the man divorcing the 50 year and bringing a 19 year old fresh off the boat from Pakistan. Trust me the 50 year old ex got the last laugh. Why, she might even give him a bottle of aspirin. Think of the wives of the Prophet,swas, and how they had to content with the silliness of Ayisha. The young wife would get jealous of his daughter.

That is cultural issue of age. We need to discuss that on another thread. In the US we are not hung up on age; I have noticed women my age from the other Muslim countries consider themselves old. Not healthy. They seem to be mourning.

In summary, it is disconcerting as usual to find that many Muslim men have little heart. The Prophet, swas, told us to be gentle to womenfolk. We wonder why the state of Muslims is appalling. Well, look how you treat your womenfolk. Use them, abuse them, and toss them out. Get a new improved model. we do not have the extended family anymore.


A woman can divorce a 45 year old man and marry a 24 year old. And have fun, for a little while.

No idea what you are talking about and the premise of your arguments so I will leave you to it Sister.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam alaikum,

Let me make it simpler.

As the family breaks down in the West it is weak. The weakest spot is the sister. Often when a woman is not granted financial support the children suffer the most. The Muslim community has failed the sisters here. The Muslim world has not devoted time to address issues that lead to divorce. The immigrant population is notorious for keeping cultural barriers. They have one foot in the west and one foot in the home country.

In cases of divorce they mingle Sharia and the state law to suit themselves. It is usually the sister who gets the short end of the stick. As the Muslim communities are too red-faced to deal with issues of personal matters it is simply ignored.

Thus, we have a problem in the west of women who become dependent upon the state. Muslim women who have to be supported by the kufr governments. They have no choice. This is not an issue that is a chip on my shoulder. This is as real as it gets. The numbers may not be very significant at this moment but they are rising. Many local and state agencies are monitoring the funds provided for Muslim women on welfare. That is the beginning of the problem. Very soon Muslim men will have to take paternity tests and have their paychecks garnished.

I am suggesting that the congregations at masjids make provisions i.e. have social services available that are independent of the state. That is what I am talking about. I am talking about real money issues. These issues need to be addressed. People forget that divorce is an economic issue as well.

I pray this makes some sense to you. In Islam we are to provide for those in need. It is that simple. I have a hard time understanding how a man can leave a woman on the street when she was once his wife. There is no treasury of Islam that she can take from. Pretty deep stuff when you take a moment to analyze the consequences of divorce. It breaks down the community.

 

[Hajjerr]

Salam aleikum

I have read this thread and then i went on searching little about divorce.
One thing that can protect a woman in case of divorce can be the contract that was made (if there was one) in the time of nikah, a condition that the couple has to part half the amount of money or property that they have, seems fair to make such contract since a woman that gets a divorce after 20 years of marriage can be left empty handed, i find this not right because she gaved up her chance to have a profession or savings from certain job, on behalf of the dedication for the husband and family. He gained the money, but are also hers no ?...or i understand wrong.
In case that contract was not made and they dont have common bank account, i guess she remains at the mercy of relatives or strangers ?

May Allah guide and forgive us.

:salam2:

 

[tic_tac_toe]

Assalaam alaikum,

Let me make it simpler.

As the family breaks down in the West it is weak. The weakest spot is the sister. Often when a woman is not granted financial support the children suffer the most. The Muslim community has failed the sisters here. The Muslim world has not devoted time to address issues that lead to divorce. The immigrant population is notorious for keeping cultural barriers. They have one foot in the west and one foot in the home country.

In cases of divorce they mingle Sharia and the state law to suit themselves. It is usually the sister who gets the short end of the stick. As the Muslim communities are too red-faced to deal with issues of personal matters it is simply ignored.

Thus, we have a problem in the west of women who become dependent upon the state. Muslim women who have to be supported by the kufr governments. They have no choice. This is not an issue that is a chip on my shoulder. This is as real as it gets. The numbers may not be very significant at this moment but they are rising. Many local and state agencies are monitoring the funds provided for Muslim women on welfare. That is the beginning of the problem. Very soon Muslim men will have to take paternity tests and have their paychecks garnished.

I am suggesting that the congregations at masjids make provisions i.e. have social services available that are independent of the state. That is what I am talking about. I am talking about real money issues. These issues need to be addressed. People forget that divorce is an economic issue as well.

I pray this makes some sense to you. In Islam we are to provide for those in need. It is that simple. I have a hard time understanding how a man can leave a woman on the street when she was once his wife. There is no treasury of Islam that she can take from. Pretty deep stuff when you take a moment to analyze the consequences of divorce. It breaks down the community.

...Will respond later...

 

[hayat84]

don't generalize,there are surely men who get bored,by myself,because their wive don't make their husband's life "funny/happy/full of new things to do".There are also many husbands who stay married with the same wife until they die and I know some ones.my grandparents are married since 1952,they are not muslims but they still are in love,even if older!The women of nowdays have become too much "viced"(no offence for the females here,but my own way to see the reality),they always claim,they request attention,gifts,"mani-cure,hair-stylist",this is really too much for a husband,who is naturally simpler.
Until we remain in the conception that the woman takes care of the man,stays at home until he arrives,is patient during the difficulties,takes some freetime for herself,then the couple can resist for many years.But if the woman strts"opening" the eyes,it creates a meccanism into her mind,which makes her to think that she can be free like the husband,so she starts going out alone,meet her friends with no permission from her husband,chats on facebbok without making her husband to know it.....There are many factors which make the husband to leave his wife for first,but we can't deny that are also pious husbands who are really devoted to their wives and they behave exactly like the first day they met each other.

 

[Um Ibrahim]

Aapa, are you saying that Muslim women should go to the non-Muslim courts and demand half of everything the man has? I agree with you a 100% about the abuses a lot of our Muslim sisters are going through especailly the divorced ones. But in Islam, the man should take care of his children no matter what the wife's income is. And if the man takes care of his children and gives them everything they need, there is no need for the woman to go to courts and demand half of his property or money, that is not her right. That is a responsibility on the man that Allah has put on him. Unfortunately many men don't care about their responsibilities and this is where the problem is. May Allah help these poor sisters who are struggling on their own. Allahuma Amin.

 

[hayat84]

just to share:I was(and am)so trustful in to my marriage,that when the mayor asked me how much money should my husband leave for me to use during the divorce,I smiled and wanted nothing because of my faith that there will be nothing which will separate us,except the death.
the only thing that a divorced woman asks is money.Poor that husband who tests this situation.How can he provide to her ex-wife if he doesn't love her anymore?I know that there is a pain in all this,but what maintains a couple alive is the dialogue.the women of nowdays are able to seek their indipendence without asking money from their husbands,they maybe are better then men in this.
The domestic violence,I know a story of it,and I understand until where the foolishness of a man can pull himself;but if you see this "punishment" from the point of view of the true believer,I think that it is also a test from Allah to see how patient a person is(family or wealthness are not the guarantee to go to Paradise).
About giving the fault to women of their family breakdown,I can't disagree,because as I wrote before,the women's behaviour is changed,they are not so chast and shy like in the past and as the husband is the one who has the "attributes" to provides to his family,if the woman too wants to do the same thing,how could "2 captains command into the ship?".Here is the consequence,by myself,of many so called "abuses.
I know that the man should respect the woman,but it's also true that everybody should stay at his place

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam alaikum,

What I am asking/saying is this:

1. In the US a divorce has to be granted through the courts. If the couple agree it is a simple procedure. If they have property issues/custody issues the court steps in.
2. What I have seen in the Muslim population is that many men do not face up to their obligations. So you see sisters who are on the welfare system. The men abandon the children.
3. If there is a strictly Islamic divorce my question becomes what are suggestions for divorced women. If they do not get any alimony what are they expected to do. I am limiting my discussion to the west. No extended family. Woman with no job skills. Where is she to make her income? Many women make the mistake of a joint bank account. What does she do to protect her interests. What about property rights. They buy a house together, who gets it. If she can not make the mortgage payments what are the responsibilities of the husband.
4. If a man provides for his children does that include the money to maintain the household. This is a really sticky area. Does he pay for the heat, cell phones, water, electricity, clothing, medical, school, and extras.
How does a woman protect herself in the West. What is contained in the per-nuptial contract. Do women in the west need per-nuptials to protect themselves.

There are no provisions for the ex-wife. You just leave her on the street.

Not all women in the west are given alimony. It depends on the salary of the husband. Some husbands receive alimony. Even couples who are not married but separate have palimony.



Sister Hayat...why do you think I make up things. I am not generalizing. There is world out there. Not everyone divorces, not every husband strays but there is enough to make you shake your head. Yes, sister, wives even get bored with their husbands. That is when affairs pop up. Even in Muslim communities.


This is a learning process. I do not have the answers. I have a lot of questions. And I thank Brother Tic-Tac-Toe for trying to help us understand what best to do.

 

[hayat84]

a man who leaves his wife on the street is not a man but a hypocrite.What I can say,even if I hav no experience is to have trust to Allah,is what I do.I have no shared bank-count,no co-intestated house,I've nothing but I've everything I need.the ex husband should provide to his children and the ex-wife should seek a job.In Italy the judge can decide to take the children away from the mother if she's not able to provide to them.There are many divorced couples who suffer to see their children.In Islam it shouldn't happen.both wife and husband took their decision to get married to stay together:if only they refleced before acting maybe they wouldn't arrive to get divorced.

 

[OnewithAllah]

I assume the reason why fathers "abandon" their children is because when it gets to custody of the children, nonmuslim courts rule in the favor of the mother. Muslim mothers should give up all custody of children to the Muslim father. If you're a divorced woman and have your children living with you, then you've clearly done something wrong. Divorced women are not meant to carry around "extra baggage". are they expecting the next husband to care for someone else's children?

 

[Um Ibrahim]

Sister Aapa, you bring up many important questions! yes it's the father's responsibility to provide everyting his children need including housing, food, clothes etc. Of course if the mother is able to help, she should also do whatever she can, but the most important in a marriage are the children. They are innocent. They don't need to see their parents fighting and hurting each other. I have some of my own friends go through these hardships. A man refuses to pay for his child's diapers, milk, clothes etc. and when the sister goes to the legal system to ask for child support he comes back begging her to drop the case and let it be between him and her. Subhanalaah, this is disgusting. Many men will be forced by kufars to pay child support when Allah has already put it on him before the kufar's legal system or any system for that matter ever existed.

 

[Um Ibrahim]

I assume the reason why fathers "abandon" their children is because when it gets to custody of the children, nonmuslim courts rule in the favor of the mother. Muslim mothers should give up all custody of children to the Muslim father. If you're a divorced woman and have your children living with you, then you've clearly done something wrong. Divorced women are not meant to carry around "extra baggage". are they expecting the next husband to care for someone else's children?

But many fathers don't want full custody of the children because that would be really difficult for him alone especially if the children are small children. Everyone knows it's hard for a man to take care of small children, mothers have that natural love and desire to take care of their children, fathers also love their children but it's just difficult for a father to take on the role of the mother. This is the reason Islam gives the mother and father specific and different roles. If only we all followed our beautiful religion, no one would have any problems. But shaytan is ever quick to destroy families. May Allah protect us from him.

 

[OnewithAllah]

But many fathers don't want full custody of the children because that would be really difficult for him alone especially if the children are small children. Everyone knows it's hard for a man to take care of small children, mothers have that natural love and desire to take care of their children, fathers also love their children but it's just difficult for a father to take on the role of the mother. This is the reason Islam gives the mother and father specific and different roles. If only we all followed our beautiful religion, no one would have any problems. But shaytan is ever quick to destroy families. May Allah protect us from him.

It is really sad. Children growing up to be father-less. How are the sons expected to be responsible fathers one day when they lack a role model? Incompetence truly disgusts me.

But men are not always to blame. Adultery among Muslim women in the West is increasing. What is a man to do in that situation?

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam alaikum,

In the US you have to have both a civil and religious marriage if you are a Muslim. The courts do not recognize the marriage if there is not a civil union. Thus, the couples who wish to dissolve the marriage have to go to the courts.

Sister,

The men do come begging the sisters. It is to save money from their pockets. It hurts the children. Once again this is a pattern.

But, what we do not have are the support structures to help Muslims become independent of the kufr world. What is a sister to do when she is alone with little babes to feed. Strave? She has no choice but to go on welfare. Why would a woman have to beg the father of her child for formula or diapers? We are not discussing rich people. Poor people divorce. Life stressors are more for the poor.


I am not placing any blame but painting a picture. Yes, it is ugly but it has to be painted. And I am not satisfied by the response that the husband has no Islamic obligation to his former wife. Ok...he has no obligation to support her. But does that mean in the society where we live there are no support systems. I know of two shelters for sisters. Do you really want to see your wife in a shelter? The shelters of the kufr are not safe for children or mothers. I know of sisters who had to live in shelters.

The children do suffer, at first. But, they become very strong and independent. They forgive each parent and love each parent.

Sister Hayat..keep up the good work. Your gentleness and love for your family always makes me smile. Your innocence makes me shake my head..the world is a better place because of you.

Son...One with Allah...you need to stop being so quick to jump the gun. You are so quick to place blame..you have not been married. It can be the best of things and it can be the worst of things. If a woman has her children with her that makes her a strong woman. You do not know the circumstances of her situation.

I know many sisters who will not remarry. Once a woman has a child the child always comes before a man.

OK...a child does not have to grow up fatherless. It depends on the agreements made by the parents. If the couple places the welfare of the child ahead of everything the child does not lose out.

You can see the results of a fatherless society here in the US. It seems to hurt the males more. But, they grow up fast. A boy when he reaches puberty will not listen to his mother. He will love her. He will respect her. But, you are correct he needs that male role model.

 

[Um Ibrahim]

Walahi it's all just too sad and heart-breaking. I don't know who to blame, Allah knows best who's fault it really is (the husbands or wives), but I honestly think if men were more stronger in their iman and were better leaders for their families, there wouldn't be so many Muslim families breaking up. Allah has put the responsibility of the house and family on the shoulders of men. Allah has made them leaders for a reason. They need to play their role more correctlty and it's not just about financial responsibility, it's about being fully aware of what's going on with his children and wive/s. Likewise, the woman needs to help her husband. She needs to be strong and try to correct his mistakes with sincerity and honesty. In many muslim households, the feeling of being a family is missing. Trust is also a major issue. Couples just don't trust each other now a days.

Aapa, it's true that if you don't have a "legal" marriage according to the courts the state doesn't really recognize your marriage. But that doesn't matter in Islam. Majority of Muslims who are married don't have marriage certificates or licenses from their states. That doesn't make the marriage invalid so it doesn't really matter or shouldn't matter, i think there is also fear of it among the men especially (Allahu A'lam) again, there are a lot of trust issues. I agree with you that there is no structure to help those sisters in need in Muslim communities. But I don't think the American way of doing things is the answer either. I don't think it's fair for a man to have to pay half of everything he earns to his ex-wife. That is not just especially if she never worked while they were married.

 

[ShahnazZ]

I'm shocked to see some of the responses on this thread. All I can say is that it would serve us well to learn the tenets of our religion before offering our own opinions as fatawa.

The domestic violence,I know a story of it,and I understand until where the foolishness of a man can pull himself;but if you see this "punishment" from the point of view of the true believer,I think that it is also a test from Allah to see how patient a person is(family or wealthness are not the guarantee to go to Paradise).

This is the type of thinking exhibited by Muslim women who are unjustly abused and oppressed by violent husbands. I believe this stems from a lack of Islamic literacy and is common all over the world. It's why many wives and children allow themselves to be beaten senseless, why many imams turn women away when approached for help and why many families turn their backs on their daughters when they seek refuge with them.

They all do it under the messed up guise that Allah is testing your patience.

Oh, He's testing them alright. But not to see how well they put up with the beatings. He's testing them to see how they respond in the face of oppression. Our Creator is Al-'Adl and does not stand for injustice. As His servants, we are commanded to be just. There is no justice in deliberately allowing one's self to be oppressed. Additionally, as servants of Allah, our number one cautionary measure should be to avoid shirk at all costs. When someone allows themself to be oppressed, they are submitting to the oppressor and not to the Creator who commanded that we stand up against injustice. The fear of Allah is replaced with fear of the husband.

So please explain to me how this "punishment" of submitting to the Creation over the Creator is a test of patience from Allah for the "true believer".

Allah is not unjust and all Muslims need to remember that. We need to remember it so we can properly guide not only our brothers and sisters, but especially our children. It might just keep our future generations from thinking of the "God of Muslims" as unjust.