Pakistan Vows War Against Swat Valley

[TheHumbleWun]

Salaam,

http://news.antiwar.com/2009/05/07/pakistan-vows-war-against-swat-valley-terrorists/

It saddens how the West has made Muslims kill Muslims. The Pakistani "army" has now deemed those in the swat valley of Pakistan who want true Islam established like our predecessors (i.e. sahabas, tabiun) and labeled as "terrorists" by the Pakistani "army" and "government." It is the agenda of the West to divide and conquer Muslims. When will Muslims realize this? We have no one lead us - like a body without it's head.

O Allah when will your help come?

May Allah swt remove this curse from us & unite us.

 

[Idris16]

Amiin
The president is rawafid
what can we expect from him? we saw aljazeera how the swatpeople cheered for shari'ah.

 

[saif]

Islam of Sahaba or Islam of Mullah?

:salam2:

Let me start from a non-issue and then I will come to the point. I don't want to convert this thread into a shia-sunni debate but if you hold a referendum in Pakistan, if they would like to have a rafidi like Ahmadi Nejad to be their president, guess what they would decide?

This is a non-issue and I don't want to spend any more words on that. full stop.

Brother TheHumbleWun, I like your posts because of your humble nature and your wisdom. However, I have to differ on a few points on this post of yours. You have said some good words about the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan, which they don't deserve at all. Don't confuse them with Taliban of Afghanistan, which are a genuine resistance of Afghan people, which, from day one should have been differentiated from AlQaida, which is an imported desease from Gulf. I don't have to agree with everything the Taliban of Afghanistan were doing but I am sure they were sincere to their people. The Taliban of Pakistan have nothing in common with the Taliban of Afghanistan. The Taliban of Pakistan are more inclined towards AlQaida's takifiri ideology, so they have no problem in beheading the Pakistani muslims. They are a desease and curse on the face of earth and should be removed as soon as possible. They have nothing to do with the Islam of Sahaba, as you are hoping.

As far as Nizaam-e-Adl ordinance is concerned, it is still valid and the whole Pakistan stands behind this demand of the Swati people. However, as a part of the peace agreement, Maulana Sufi Muhammad had to do his part too. Instead of disarming the militants, which he should have been doing according the agreement, he started speaking the takfiri language and declared Parliament, courts, government etc. as kafir/kufr. I hope, one day he is captured and punished with the islamic law about mu7aarba (fasaad fil ard). In fact, every Talib in Pakistan deserves this islamic penalty ( my personal opinion. no fatwa )

What is actually happening and why?

I am no friend of conspiracy theories and I usually take thing at their face value. In this particular case, however, I clearly see a conspiracy going on. Somebody, and I don't have to name who, is supporting all the different groups, which are fighting against Pakistan and also against eachother. That somebody is also supporting Pakistan to curb on those groups. Obvious reason to support everybody is to create a situation, where it is more and more acceptable to talk about unsafe nuclear assets of Pakistan and the possibilities to get them in the 'safe' hands. Second and more long term goal is to disintegrate Pakistan, (especially the western side of the indus river) as can be read in many recent publications from various thinktanks in USA. A part of the afghan pakhtoons is also a part of this dirty game because they are hoping to get a bone. Another obvious goal is to create an independent Balochistan, which is not only rich in natural resources but strategically important to control Iran and China. (Recall chinese interest in Gawadar Port and Iran's concerns because of its own Balochi /sistani population ).

What should be done?

I don't think there is any other way-out left than to fight against these elements. However, a brutal military action will cause more harm than benefit. Important thing in all wars is to remain on morally higher ground. Pakistan should stop playing in the hands of those, who are trying to break it. It is in Pakistan's vital interest to win the sympathies of the general public in the northern areas, which is hard to win, when they are so clearly a party with the enemies of Pakistan. Pakistan should also take the matter in OIC and put pressure on Karzai, no to allow its soil to be used against Pakistan.

What will be the outcome?

I am an optimist by nature. Toynbee notes, that the rise of the nations starts, when they overcome a challenge, which is not too easy to win and not too difficult to break them. Sorry for quoting Toynbee but my feeling is, that some difficulties on nations come from Allah to teach them. (Recall the story of rise and fall of Bani-Israel)

I think we will inshaAllah overcome this challenge after a lot of sacrifices but then we will not be the same nation any more. We will inshaAllah win against the Ignorance of Mullah, which is the root cause of the miscreants like AlQaid and Taliban of Pakistan. We will inshaAllah also win against 'enlightened moderates', created by Musharraf. The vision of the founding fathers of Pakistan like Iqbal will emerge as a winner. I can already see the streaks of this coming future. Just like Pakistan was created by a miracle of Allah, it will also survive inshaAllah, and Allah will lead it to the purpose of its creation. My feelings can be best described by the words of Iqbal:

Aankh jo kuchh dekhti he lab peh a sakta nahin
mahv-e-hairat hun keh duniya kya se kya ho jae gi

(Translation: That, which my inner eye is seeing cannot be uttered in words. I am in utter to 'see' what the world is going to become)

In the end a few words of Iqbal to describe the difference between the real mu'minin and mullah. I am not going to translate that one because everybody who knows persian or arabic can also understand more than half of it.

andaaz-e-bayaaN ger-che bahot shokh nahiN hai
shaayed k uter jaaye teray dil mein meri baat


ya wusat-e-aflaak mein takbeer-e-musalsal
ya khaak ki aaghosh mein tasbeeh-o-manajaat


wo mazhab-e-merdaan-e-khud-aagaah-o-khuda-mast
ye mazhab-e-mulla-o-jamadaat-o-nibataat

- Allama Iqbal –

(baal-e-jibreel)

 

[mhamzah]

.................................................

 

[Aapa]

Salaam,

Please provide the link for the article. I have difficulty reading an article unless I know its context. I was surprised at the references to CIA; the juvenile praises of Obama; and the lanuage which was not sympathetic to Islam.

All I know is today in Pakistan alone 700 plus Muslims were killed. I did not take note of the Palestinians deaths nor the deaths in Iraq. I will do that before dinner.

I seek forgiveness from Allah subhana talla that I am useless.

 

[shoaibazizmeer]

Salam.

Brother Humble Wun, I guess you don't have an idea of the exact nature of the situation at swat valley. No true muslim can be against Shariah law, this is what for which Muslim of sub-continent struggled and had their own homeland, Pakistan.

This is very complex issue and has various dimensions. One must understand the history of Swat valley, and the background , motives and agenda of Tahreek Taliban Pakistan. How do they get such heavy weapons, money and all this. Lot of hidden truth which would be unleashed with time. But you cannot label that group of people the true followers and Pakistan Army fulfilliling western agenda.

 

[abdullah khan]

please don't say anything if you don't know.

Assalamu alaikum,
Brother and sister in Islam,
To be honest,brother saif when you write something read it twice and please give your evidence as well,I am so tired watching the Muslims opinion like kafir.
Brother saif please don't be offened, but again I’m requesting you don't judge Mujahideen without not knowing the inside story.
You better wake up,don't trust on mainstream media,they are not telling the truth,as you are not as well,sorry to say brother.
Allah azzawajal knows best.
make dua for the Mujahideen, their intension is establish the laws of Allah azzawajal.
they are giving their life for the path of Allah azzawajal,but you and me doing what?
we are very good in backbiting, no doubt about it, by the way Musrikin are plotting us now and then,here and there.we should united, may Allah azzawajal forgive our sins and make our ummah strong.ameen.

[yt]KqjuTPpQI9o[/yt]

 

[Munawar]

:salam2:
I agree with Saif what has written here.

And I would further like to add that the head of the so-called "Pakistani Taliban" (aka Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan) is a character named Baitullah Mehsud. He was released from Guantanamo Bay (Gitmo) a couple of years ago. He was one of the earliest released person from Gitmo. And ever since he was released into this Afghanistan-Pakistan border region he does 2 things:
1. He issues statements in the media that he will attack America and/or White House every now and then.
2. But attack Pakistani Military and police instead using sophisticated weapons and suiside bombers.

This pretty much sums-up what his assignment is in that region.

Here is a news item about him: http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2009/03/baitullah_mehsud_tak.php

 

[Hard Rock Moslem]

Ok, I analysed both of your views and conclude we need to go into deeper before we could say who is right and wrong. Hope someone can give clear evidence what is going on.

Now, I really do not know, what is "rawafid".

 

[jundulah]

saif akhee u need to understand hadeeth of the prophet "saw"which was translation(the muslim ummah is like one body if one part of it feels pain the rest will also)you say&i quote you that alqaida is imported from the golf of arabia.Where is your sense of brotherhood aren't we all muslims ,and should come each others defense regardless of these fake and so called borders,Which side are you on ,or you believe the western propoganda that if a muslim brother helps an other he is jihadi terrorist.Furthermore you say the mujaahideen brothers in "SWAT" have takfiri ideas,and your evidence & i quote you again" they say the so called exucative&legeslative goverment of pakistan and their man made law of which they rule the country by is" kufr"end of quote now without a doupt that is kufr and i urge to rever to the QUR'AN and Ahaadiith instead of following your desires go to only and true legislator ALLAH go to and read sura albaqarah and what ALLAH says about those who rule by other than shariah.and finally you quote toynby what is wrong with your aqeedah first and formost youquote ALLAAH and then prophet Muhammad "saw" and then you qoute whoever else you want. wasalaam.

 

[saif]

:salam2:

Brother Hamza, why did you delete that article by Imran Khan? I agree with most of his analysis and I have high hopes about his leadership. Please make the link available to sister Mirajmom and others.

:salam2:

sorry brother saif no offence but we should not issue fatwas untill dont have any aunthentic source.it is very easy to write anything sitting in front of pc .

peace to you.

I did not take any offence dear sister Khangul but I cannot remember having issued any fatwa. If you mean, my personal understanding of the verses of Surah Almaeda about muhaarba, then I have explicitely mentioned, that it is my opinion and I have all the right to have my opinion about those verses because Quran was also revealed for me to understand. I would be glad, if somebody can correct my understanding. Here are the verses for your reference:

005.033
The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

005.034
Except for those who repent before they fall into your power: in that case, know that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Who else is meant in these verses if not the one, who wages war against muslims? The one, who does 'musla' of the dead bodies of the muslims. The one, who beheads innocent muslims, after they went into their captivity. The one, who threatens to behead the barbars for offering their shaving services. The one, who breaks all peace agreements. I repeat, I am explaining my understanding of the verses in this form with the intention, that I might be corrected, if my understanding is wrong.

:salam2:

and as for shias and their leaders, they are not a hidden religion anymore.they cannt hide their religion with taqyaa now .every one know what their religion is and about.

Sister, I had requested not to start a shia-sunni debate in this thread. But now I have to give a short explaination. I have most probably bigger problems with Zardari's presidency than you can ever imagine. However, our constitution says, the president of Pakistan has to be a muslim. Now, if you go through some other threads about shia-sunni debates, you will see that even the hardliners of this forum like Salem have quoted Fatwas, that there is no general takfir of Shias. That is why the Saudis also allow them to perform Hajj. Otherwise, the non muslims are not allowed to enter those holly sites. If you agree with them, then I don't understand, where the problem is. I can count 100 other reasons, why he shouldn't be Pakistan's president. But his being shia muslim is not his disqualification. If you think, it should be a disqualification, start a movement to change the constitution of Pakistan. Once the shura of muslims will have changed the constitution, that no shia can become Pakistan's president, I will be bound to accept it because the decisions done by the shura of muslims have some sanctity in my eyes (based on my understanding of Quran. hint: Ita'a of Uulul Amr). I am sorry for a long answer but I think, it was important to explain my pattern of thinking, which is apparently different than yours.

Brother saif please don't be offened, but again I’m requesting you don't judge Mujahideen without not knowing the inside story.
You better wake up,don't trust on mainstream media,they are not telling the truth,as you are not as well,sorry to say brother.
Allah azzawajal knows best.
make dua for the Mujahideen, their intension is establish the laws of Allah azzawajal.
they are giving their life for the path of Allah azzawajal,but you and me doing what?

[yt]KqjuTPpQI9o[/yt]

Dear brother Abdullah Khan, that's the reason we are here. I am very much willing to hear the other side of the story from you. I am more than willing to take my information from non-mainstream media. I don't buy the argument, that the other side has no voice at all in the present age of communication. As far Sufi Muhammad's takfir of the whole parliament is concerned, which is representing the will of 160 million muslims, then I can say I have heard it with my own ears. And if the Taliban had not beheaded those muslims, then they should have at least issued a statement, they have not done it. And what about all those attacks on Police, Police academy and Siri-Lankan cricket team. If they are Mujahedeen, then they should keep that jehad out of Pakistan. We don't need them here.

Ask anybody, muslim or non-muslim alike, which country in the world have been most accomodative for the 'mujahideen'. The answer will be definitely Pakistan. In fact, we are cursed in the whole world for that. Go through youtube or web and you will see that the whole world, again muslims and non-muslims alike is pointing fingers towards Pakistan with exactly that allegation. We know very well the difference between Jehad and fasaad. If you go through my previous emails, I have had arguments with the moderators about the fatwas of the saudi scholars against the groups like AlQaida and I have always maintained a moderate position on that topic. I certainly don't belong to those who favour a complete submissiveness to the rulers as long as they are not committing clear kufr because I want some space for political struggle. On the other hand I cannot and I can never accept a brutal revolt against a government, where the doors of change are open through a political process. Again, I am sorry for a long answer but I hope you understand where I am coming from. And by the way, may be you have noticed but I have not said a single word against Taliban of Afghanistan. I am only against american and indian assets like Baitullah Mehsood.

:salam2:
I agree with Saif what has written here.

Thank you brother Munawar for your support. As you can imagine, our enemies have not made it easy on us by naming their assets as Taliban. Apparently, that strategy is working, as I am having a hard time explaining the difference.

 

[Hard Rock Moslem]

:salam2:

I have most probably bigger problems with Zardari's presidency than you can ever imagine.

Zardari is a problem not only to Pakistan but also to the rest of muslim ummah. He is shame and an American puppet....may Allah guide him.

:
I can count 100 other reasons, why he shouldn't be Pakistan's president. But his being shia muslim

This is shocking to me...I never know Zardari is a shia..?!! O no!!! Another shia leader after Iraq? But I agree with your comparison shia being allowed to enter Masjidil Haraam...shia issue is very complex issue. How about Hamid Karzai, another American puppet? Is he a shia as well?

 

[saif]

saif akhee u need to understand hadeeth of the prophet "saw"which was translation(the muslim ummah is like one body if one part of it feels pain the rest will also)you say&i quote you that alqaida is imported from the golf of arabia.Where is your sense of brotherhood aren't we all muslims ,and should come each others defense regardless of these fake and so called borders,Which side are you on ,or you believe the western propoganda that if a muslim brother helps an other he is jihadi terrorist.Furthermore you say the mujaahideen brothers in "SWAT" have takfiri ideas,and your evidence & i quote you again" they say the so called exucative&legeslative goverment of pakistan and their man made law of which they rule the country by is" kufr"end of quote now without a doupt that is kufr and i urge to rever to the QUR'AN and Ahaadiith instead of following your desires go to only and true legislator ALLAH go to and read sura albaqarah and what ALLAH says about those who rule by other than shariah.and finally you quote toynby what is wrong with your aqeedah first and formost youquote ALLAAH and then prophet Muhammad "saw" and then you qoute whoever else you want. wasalaam.

Assalamu Alaikum akhi Jundullah,
May Allah reward you for reminding me this hadith. Actually, I am glad you have raised that objection on my choice of words. I have delibrately chosen that expression (about AlQaida being an imported desease) to express how bittered I am on that topic. I wish I could remain cool while talking about AlQaida but that fitna has costed muslims so many lives that it is not possible for me. I am not at all a nationalist and I love my brothers and sisters all over the world including Gulf and I know the general public has nothing to do with this fitna. But I have my own opinion about the causes of this fitna and I am willing to get corrected, if the reality is different. In my last mail, I have also given a hint on that topic. AlQaida is an extreme reaction to the suffocation created by an alliance of the clergy and the rulers. The clergy is making people submissive to the rulers in all cases (excepting kufr of course) and the rulers have left no space for any political process. AlQaida has taken a violent path and have made themselves similar to the people known as khawarij in our history. They are certainly on one extreme. But the alliance of rulers and the clergy is certainly on the other extreme. I don't see any big difference between the two and I have expressed my opinion several times on this forum with willingness to get corrected. The golden mean is given to us in Quran, which says,

042.036
Whatever ye are given (here) is (but) a convenience of this life: but that which is with Allah is better and more lasting: (it is) for those who believe and put their trust in their Lord:

042.037
Those who avoid the greater crimes and shameful deeds, and, when they are angry even then forgive;

042.038
Those who hearken to their Lord, and establish regular Prayer; who (conduct) their affairs by mutual Consultation; who spend out of what We bestow on them for Sustenance;

042.039
And those who, when an oppressive wrong is inflicted on them, (are not cowed but) help and defend themselves.

042.040
The recompense for an injury is an injury equal thereto (in degree): but if a person forgives and makes reconciliation, his reward is due from Allah: for (Allah) loveth not those who do wrong.

The above verses address exactly both the conflicting parties. When 'they' are given power on earth, what they should do and when somebody feels oppressed in a setup, what he should do. Unfortunately, neither of the two is doing their duty. And I could have silently accepted that fact, if it had not taken so many innocent lives. I hope, you understand what exactly I am bittered about. I repeat, I love all my muslim brothers and sisters, all over the world.

Now towards man-made laws and kufr. Again, there is no short answer to that and I really need to get some sleep. But shortly I can tell you, that we do have hudud ordinace in place in Pakistan, which was actually made with the help of an expert provided by the Saudi government ( somebody named Daulbi something ). The reason, why a hud sentence has never been executed is because of a technical mistake in law. it defines certain criterion for the acceptance of the witnesses called Tazkiahtu shuhood. Now, that criteria is so strict, that it has never happened that the evidence required by a had punishment was provided. A Tazeer punishment is used instead, if the crime is otherwise proved (without required witnesses for hadd). As a result, people see, that man-made law (i.e. tazeer) is used instead of hadd. Again it is a long discussion, why we were unable to remove its technical faults until now. I can tell you, that the main reason is the mullah. Whenever you want to touch hudud ordinance for any change, the mullah threatens to cut your hands. In short, within our possibilities, we have been doing something, which is still not enough but we are certainly not kuffaar and our representatives in the parliament are also not kuffaar and resolving issues in the process of mutual consultation in a parliament is most certainly not kufr but it is in accordance with the above verses. Even my short answer was not that short but I have really ommitted hundreds of details. I hope, you have better understanding of my position now.

 

[Aapa]

Salaam,

Brothers and sisters we are going in many different directions. Let us focus. Let us limit our sujbect and open other threads. Or else everything gets confused and our minds become muddled.

Al-Quida did not kill anyone in the US. This is a fact.

 

[Skywalker]

As-salamo'alaikum,

As far as my belief goes, I completely agree with brother Saif. He is quite right in his sayings.

This a real world my brothers and sisters. I would like all of you to think more rationally in the global context. No country can survive in isolation.

My heart pains equally for the losses of all the muslims irrespective of anyone's charecterization. Why are we spilling our own blood?

I pray for peace and prosperity for all the muslims. Geographical borders and other differences are meaningless to me.

Don't we have something better to do? Why not put all those efforts (monetary and else) into eradicating the illiteracy and poverty from our lands. Why not bring everyone under one umbrella and make them work towards the common good?

 

[Skywalker]

:salam2:
ok i agree that they are not good people but what about those who migrated from wazirestan , swat and kurram ajency to earn money for two times food and being killed by the terrorists of MQM.the media is saying nothing about those poor people.(in those people are from puhjab too are including).
they killed the poor people and burned their shops and homes.and our pakistani news papers are

:salam2:

Dear brother,

Why are you so keen to fight? Is war a solution to this problem? Would you like to dirty your hands with the blood of your own brothers?

Start thinking rationally. The whole world is laughing at us. Can't you see that? This problem needs a broader perspective. A peaceful solution, is what we should work for instead of arguing.

P.S - To me all of them are my brothers.