Poll: 67% of Americans Accept the Separation of Church and State, 28% Don't

[Abu Talib]

67 percent of the American people agree (with 48 percent “strongly” agreeing) that the First Amendment "requires a clear separation of church and state," according to the 2011 State of the First Amendment Survey released July 12 by the First Amendment Center.

However, 28 percent disagreed (with 17 percent saying they "strongly" disagree) with the separation of church and state. This is a minority, but one that constitutes over over a quarter of the American people, most of them from the Christian right.

5 percent of respondents said they did not know.

The questionnaire was administered to a national sample of 1,006 American adults by telephone.

For decades now, Christian-nation advocates have tried to convince Americans that "separation of church and state isn't in the First Amendment." They have peddled a revisionist account of a "Christian America" that should (at best) tolerate members of other faiths to reside in the United States.

The poll also asked "Do you feel that the freedom to worship as one chooses applies to all religious groups regardless of how extreme their views are, or was it never meant to apply to religious groups that most people would consider extreme or fringe?"

Again, only two-thirds of Americans said religious liberty applies to all groups.

It is true that the actual words "separation of church and state" are not in the Constitution. But as the majority of Americans understand, the principle of separation clearly is.

The establishment clause of the First Amendment ("Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion") prohibits government entanglement with religion — a principle of religious freedom described by Roger Williams, Thomas Jefferson and James Madison as "separation of church and state."

The principle of separation of church and state enshrined in the First Amendment is not the same as the principle of secularism understood in France or Turkey. Secularism as practiced in those countries means to banish all religion from the public square. Most Americans agree that secularism of that kind is a false reading of the First Amendment that actually denies religious freedom.

The First Amendent of the US Constitutions is intended to separate church from state while protecting the free and open exercise of religion by people of all faiths. As understood by the majority of Americans, Constitutional scholars, and as applied in practice, church-state separation protects all religions from state interference and protects people of all faiths from state-imposed religion.

There are some disagreements among those who accept the principle of church-state separation regarding how much religious content should be displayed in public or government buildings.

However, those Americans who are opposed to church-state separation argue that the United States was founded as a Christian nation and want America to be a Christian state.

Sources:

Charles C. Haynes, "Surprising support for separating church from state" Jackson Sun July 17, 2011

Joseph L. Conn, "Good News!: Most Americans Reject Religious Right’s View Of Constitution" Wall of Separation July 15, 2011

"State of the First Amendment 2011" First Amendment Center

 

[Just a Guy]

:salam2:

To add a bit more this this: the phrase "seperation of church and state" actually comes from a letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptists Association in 1802. The actual term used was "wall of seperation." The quote in full reads: "...I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."

This history nerd moment was brought to you by Just a Guy.

 

[JenGiove]

:salam2:

To add a bit more this this: the phrase "seperation of church and state" actually comes from a letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptists Association in 1802. The actual term used was "wall of seperation." The quote in full reads: "...I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."

This history nerd moment was brought to you by Just a Guy.

:salam2:

Brother, not only was this informative, its something I never knew. You may be the history nerd...but I'm the science nerd...nice to meet a fellow nerd. Thanx for the clarification. Quite interesting.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

This lends to the argument that there is so much confusion in non-Sharia legislation.

In the Preamble to the Constitution one of the key words is blessings. Now, blessings are always from a divine source.

So people make up your minds..do you or do you not believe; American law is founded on Judeo-Christian law. Lately, the Christian part is being tossed out as this is the nation that serves the apartheid illegal Zionist state.

 

[JenGiove]

The COMPLETE preamble is as follows:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Keeping in mind that the Revolutionary War was fought to separate the <now> United States from the governorship of England, lets examine why the words "more perfect Union" was used.

The Union Flag, popularly known as the *Union Jack, is the national flag of the United Kingdom. It is the British flag.


It is called the Union Flag because it symbolizes the administrative union of the countries of the United Kingdom. It is made up up of the individual Flags of three of the Kingdom's countries all united under one Sovereign - the countries of 'England, of 'Scotland' and of 'Northern Ireland' (since 1921 only Northern Ireland has been part of the United Kingdom). As Wales was not a Kingdom but a Principality it could not be included on the flag.

The COMPLETE definition of "Blessings" is as follows:

1. God's favor and protection
   • - may God continue to give us his blessing
2. A prayer asking for such favor and protection
   • - a priest gave a blessing as the ship was launched
3. Grace said before or after a meal
4. A beneficial thing for which one is grateful; something that brings well-being
   • - great intelligence can be a curse as well as a blessing
   • - it's a blessing we're alive
5. A person's sanction or support- he gave the plan his blessing even before it was announced

The COMPLETE definition of "Ordain":

1. Make (someone) a priest or minister; confer holy orders on
   
2. Order or decree (something) officially
   • - equal punishment was ordained for the two crimes
   
   
3. (esp. of God or fate) Prescribe; determine (something)
   • - the path ordained by God
   
   

The COMPLETE definition of "Liberty" :

1. The state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one's way of life, behavior, or political views
   • - compulsory retirement would interfere with individual liberty
   
   
2. An instance of this; a right or privilege, esp. a statutory one
   • - the Bill of Rights was intended to secure basic civil liberties
   
   
3. The state of not being imprisoned or enslaved
   • - people who have lost property or liberty without due process
   
   
4. The personification of liberty as a female figure
   
5. The power or scope to act as one pleases
   • - individuals should enjoy the liberty to pursue their own interests and preferences
   
   
6. A person's freedom from control by fate or necessity
   
7. A presumptuous remark or action
   • - how did he know what she was thinking?—it was a liberty!
   
   
8. Shore leave granted to a sailor

Old formal English is complex but beautiful and takes practice to understand correctly. What had one meaning THAN, may have a different meaning now. Why do you think most kids have never read the Constitution or hate reading Shakespeare?

American law itself was based on British Common Law which stemmed from Medieval English Common Law....from the 800's. The intricacies of the American law system and how each branch is answerable to the other would take a whole school year for me to get into but suffice it to say, while not perfect...since God can only create perfection...it was a deeply thought out plan so that the people could live as they chose, within reason, without having their thoughts or actions throwing them into jail for religious reasons. That is what would happen in England during the time of the Revolution. If you thought and expressed or did something that was contrary to the Church of England, you ended up in jail...or worse.

 

[Valerie]

I'm honestly tired of "zionist" always coming up anytime something is discussed on this forum. If it is part of the basic tenets of Islam to be the mirror image of those who are anti-Islam, then I'll appreciate for the moderators to show that is the case. I highly doubt that is the case.

As far as making assumptions on what the US is FOUNDED upon, I'll take the words of those who lived when the country was founded above current personal opinions.

Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11:

" Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

Approval of this was only the third time that the senate had a unanimous vote.

Although I see people in the media all the time claiming it is a Christian nation, I have yet to meet anyone in person who feels that way. We may have idiots in office who want to start religious wars, but this country was not founded for that purpose.

Those who are against separation of church and state.. I look forward to seeing their churches taxed into the ground.

 

[Just a Guy]

A lot of the early colonists came to what became the USA to escape religious persecution.

While I agree that originally the USA was founded on "Judaeo-Christian" principles, we are NOT a "Christian nation". Officially, the USA has no religion. However, that being said, I don't agree with the attacks on certain religions (Islam and Christianity) that we experience every day. If you want to be an atheist, fine. Just leave me alone and don't bother me. That's all I ask, and that's what was originally intended, that everyone is free to worship as they choose without harrassment or endangerment.

Yeah, and the whole "Zionist" thing really doesn't matter to me. All I want is to find inner peace and be someone I am happy to be. That does not depend on who controls the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. I'm sorry if that offends some of you, but I have no dog in that fight, and thus, I don't care. It's mainly political anyway, and politics is meaningless in the grand scheme of the universe. I won't be judged on whether I sided with Israel or Palestine.

 

[Valerie]

If you want to be an atheist, fine. Just leave me alone and don't bother me. That's all I ask, and that's what was originally intended, that everyone is free to worship as they choose without harrassment or endangerment.

Agreed. And vice versa. I think one should be allowed to NOT worship if they chose to and without harassment or endangerment.

 

[JenGiove]

Exactly! This country was founded to allow people to believe <or not believe> in God. If the President goes to church, then he's allowed. He's a human too. He's a citizen as well as a political figure. We don't know what the private conversations with that dingbat from Israel were. Maybe privately he says 'knock it off! You're being cruel' but because of political treaties and such, he can't say anything publicly. Only God does and those acts will be judged accordingly but labeling everyone a "zionist' isn't right either. What if someone is labeled such a thing and its not true? What then? The label has caused harm and unjust persecution and how is THAT Islamic. Its not. Mohammad dealt justly with everyone he encountered and wept over a man who was NOT a Muslim and thought quite highly of him. He even said that he would have released slaves if he had but asked.

...and this man died a non-Muslim.

Leave the labels for the zionists and be better than they are in thought, word, deed AND intention.

 

[Tabassum07]

:salam2:

The COMPLETE preamble is as follows:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Just to bring some levity into this thread (which seems to be heading into dangerous waters), I still remember the Preamble word for word, just because of those School House Rock videos they used to show us in 9th grade History. That was ages ago...

 

[Just a Guy]

:salam2:



Just to bring some levity into this thread (which seems to be heading into dangerous waters), I still remember the Preamble word for word, just because of those School House Rock videos they used to show us in 9th grade History. That was ages ago...

I had a friend of mine that memorized the Preamble for a speech contest we did way back in elementary school.

I memorized the Gettysburg address myself. I don't remember all of it now but I still remember the first part.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Thank you Tabassum for reminding us that this is going into a very dangerous area.

We forget we are Muslims and we forget we need to surround ourselves with Muslims. We have to care about the world. We are Muslims.

We need to concentrate on what Allah has prescribed for us: good deeds.
We need to leave alone what the kuffir accepts. We can not align ourselves with the needs of the kuffir.

Our creed is the Shahada. And everything else follows from that.

 

[truthseeker63]

This is a good topic.

This is a good topic.