Question about 21:32

Discussion in 'Misconceptions About Islam' started by Peter_502, Jan 31, 2016.

  1. Peter_502
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    Salaam alaikum. I don't know whether or not I am posting in the correct section of the forum- if not, please redirect me and accept in advance my apologies :).

    If my understanding is correct, 21:30-33 describes how God created the heavens and earth.

    30Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?
    31And We have placed on the earth firm mountains, lest it should shake with them, and We placed therein broad highways for them to pass through, that they may be guided.
    32And We have made the heaven a roof, safe and well guarded. Yet they turn away from its signs (i.e. sun, moon, winds, clouds, etc.).
    33And He it is Who has created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, each in an orbit floating.

    http://searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=21&translator=5#32

    I don't see why heaven is described as a "roof" in 21:32. Can anyone chip in and explain this?

    Take care and many thanks.
  2. Haimi
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    Assalam.
    Actually it's sky or let say: it's the above space.
    I recommending you to watch some 2015 documentaries about galaxies, skies and space. They explored new stuff about the real bing bang!
    And why sky is a roof? I can give you the last resault.
    It's deep but somehow i felt that i can tell you since I'm not telling this even to my muslim students.
    You get shelter when it's raining right?
    The roof will protect you, thousand of million rocks falling apart when the big stars explode, so just earth is protected from them?
    Hey hamid! Where's the deep part?
    Allah will protect us from devils and satans by Meteoroid everytime when they want to hear heaven secret holy word like a spy, or when the want to do a big casualty to humanity. Phisycal stars and Meteoroid and in my opinion hidden Meteoroid(that only pure and Innocent eyes can watch them)

    الطارق
    وَالسَّمَاءِ وَالطَّارِقِ
    By the Sky and by Tariq(1)

    وَمَا أَدْرَاكَ مَا الطَّارِقُ
    And what makes clear the meaning of Tariq to you?(2)

    النَّجْمُ الثَّاقِبُ
    It is a shooting-star[ which protects The heaven from the devils who steal The Divine discourses; and the shooting- Stars pursue the devils to their perdition. ](3)



    الصافات
    إِنَّا زَيَّنَّا السَّمَاءَ الدُّنْيَا بِزِينَةٍ الْكَوَاكِبِ
    We decked the sky, the nearest heaven To the earth, with shining stars,(6)

    وَحِفْظًا مِّن كُلِّ شَيْطَانٍ مَّارِدٍ
    And We preserved it against all Rebellious satans,(7)


    لَّا يَسَّمَّعُونَ إِلَى الْمَلَإِ الْأَعْلَىٰ وَيُقْذَفُونَ مِن كُلِّ جَانِبٍ
    The Satan's spies cannot listen to The discourse of the Supreme Assembly Of the Angels; and they are driven away From every direction,[ by The shooting-stars ],(8)

    دُحُورًا وَلَهُمْ عَذَابٌ وَاصِبٌ
    They are repulsed and for them is The Lasting Torment,(9


    إِلَّا مَنْ خَطِفَ الْخَطْفَةَ فَأَتْبَعَهُ شِهَابٌ ثَاقِبٌ
    In case one of them snatches away Some news by stealing, then such will Be pursued by the shooting-stars.(10)


    And sorry i can not go deeper, it's not good for you atm since you need alot of stuff to learn before.

    But hey! Keep it up brother:)
  3. sister herb
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    The Quran is full of scientic miracles - to us today they might not be miracles but to people whose lived 1400 years ago they surely were. I agree with br Haimi (albeit some meteorites sometimes come to the earth - but that must to be part of the Allah´s plants). Think about the atmosphere - how it protects the earth. One of its part is ozone layer. Without it, living in the earth would be impossible. It´s like the protecting roof above of us. It´s possible that this part of the Quran refers to it.

    But one thing - remember when you read our answers that most of us aren´t scholars. Just simple Muslims and some of our answers might need correcting from the scholars.
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2016
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  4. Haimi
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    Nevermind! I will explain and say it!
    It has a big secret of meaning if you think alot and if you stop doing bad deeds and sins so allah will put the higher meaning into your heart every morning when you wake up to pray. Read quran and think.
    Heres the level 2 of that verse explaination:
    We protect the earth by the sky(atmosphere)
    If you want us to protect your soul, then god damit don't look on earth creatures! Don't ask them!
    Rise your hand and eyes to the sky and just ask allah! Everything will comes yo the earth from the skies! Rain that revive the earth after winters!
    Cry's permission that revive your dead heart! You got it now?
    Also you want the protection from satans's whispers and seduces? Then what you're waiting for? Ask for the hidden meteorites ! Supernatural ones! That belong to souls only! Do you know what's that?
    I will tell you and i excepting you to pray for me because i spent my lovely age when i was 15 on kind of stuff to learn them instead of dancing, party or drinking. You call for a help like a general who's in a war for a backup support. Its simple: PRAY Or Duaa.

    That's your meteorites.
    God bless you.
  5. Haimi
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    BTW sister herb. Some meteorites are thousand time bigger than earth:D

    Some how they don't hit the earth:d some sciences don't know why.
    This is what they said. So atmosphere has nothing to do with this one sometimes:p
  6. Hassan
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    Hello, and welcome to TurnToIslam! As you know, the Qur'an is in Arabic, but I wanted to mention translations are made by humans and can have differences. It may be useful to compare translations as they can show better what the Arabic words actually say, this site may help: http://quran.com/. There are much longer scholarly discussions on meanings, called tafseer. If you are interested we can point you in that direction.
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  7. sister herb
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    Yes of course, the words of the Quran are like parables and metaphoras which meaning is help us to seek protection and refuge.
  8. Peter_502
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    Salaam alaikum everyone, and thank you for the responses. I will address each one of them. I am really grateful for you taking the time to respond to me.
  9. Peter_502
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    If I understand you correctly, the sky protects the earth from falling meteors, which are really stars that are thrown at jinns who listen to the conversation of the angels, and the stars protect us from the jinn coming down to the earth with this information and causing havoc among humanity, is that correct?
    So the heaven is a roof which protects earth from meteors, and the meteors are missiles that are shot at jinn for the good of humanity.

    Is that a correct understanding of what you said?
  10. Peter_502
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    Salaam alaikum, Sister Herb. You correctly said that the atmosphere protects the earth, and the ozone layer is part of that. This is definitely very much true. Without it, there would be no life on earth. SubhanAllah for protecting us!

    However, is it really a "protecting roof above of us"? The ozone layer surrounds the earth from all directions, unlike a roof.

    [​IMG]
    http://www.theozonehole.com/ozonelayer.htm

    Wouldn't this make it more of a cocoon or force-field? A roof does not surround the inhabitants of a house from all sides.

    13:2 seems to say that the heavens were "raised" without any visible pillars. If I am not mistaken, Islam teaches there are seven heavens, and the first one is what we can see and explore.

    13:2
    Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that you can see. Then, He rose above (Istawa) the Throne (really in a manner that suits His Majesty). He has subjected the sun and the moon (to continue going round), each running (its course) for a term appointed. He manages and regulates all affairs; He explains the Ayat (proofs, evidence, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) in detail, that you may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord.
    http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=13&translator=29#2
    What would the heavens be raised over?

    Do you also know what "paths" are being referred to in this verse, that were created above people?
    23:17
    And We have created above you seven layered heavens, and never have We been of [Our] creation unaware.
    http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=23&translator=29#17

    The translation says "heavens" but according to Corpus Quran, it is "paths", or "taraiaqa"
    http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=23&verse=17

    Tafsirs Ibn Qathir, Al Jalalayn and Ibn Abbas all translate it as "heavens" but does it mean this or something else?

    Sorry for all the questions, I just am curious and trying to understand these verses and and others like them as well as some hadiths to help me decide whether I can believe Islam is from God or not.
  11. Peter_502
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    Salaam alaikum, Hasan! Thank you for your kind greeting.
    Thanks for directing to www.quran.com. It is a bit more difficult to use now than a year ago, I prefer to use www.corpus-quran.com to get the exact words, since it seems more user friendly and has both different translations as well as exact words.

    Tafsirs would be awesome! The ones I am aware of that I can read online are www.qtafsir.com and www.altafsir.com. There are also tafsirs of Yusuf Ali and Maulana Maududi but I think the earlier ones are better since I am assuming people closest to Muhammad's times would have a best grasp of the Arabic and its meaning.
    Do you know where I can find some even earlier tafsirs in English, like Tabari's?

    Many thanks!
  12. Peter_502
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    Salaam alaikum, Hamid. You raised a good point about the atmosphere protecting the earth from meteorites. it burns them up.

    http://www.outerspaceuniverse.org/h...ns-meteors-comets-and-other-space-debris.html

    However, the atmosphere surrounds the earth from all sides, it isn't like a roof. The earth is a round planet, and the atmosphere surrounds it from all sides, it is like a force-field that is circular (or oval or whatever best describes the earth's shape lol). It's not a roof though. A roof does not protect people from all directions, only from above.

    What are your thoughts on this?
  13. Peter_502
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    That you brother you made me think and read .
    First I am not a scholar but I read what scholars wrote. To understand Quran we should be very good in arabic, since in arabic many ways of expression is used ( like all other languages) . Among them is tashbeeh means likening. A word is used to describe something which is compared or looks like it . If we read Quran we find many examples of tashbeeh : likening.
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    Sorry ...... Thank you
  16. sister herb
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    I think that "roof" is a good word to describe the protection layer as when we look to the sky, we look to above, like to the roof (or ceiling - in my language it´s same word and I am not sure how specific it´s in English).

    If we would live in round shaped house, we might not have any walls to protect us, only a roof. Actually we do live in kind of "house" - the earth. By the way, did people at the time of Muhammad still think that the earth is not round but something else (like a pancake)? If it would be, there surely might has also some mention about the walls. But you see, Allah knows the best and didn´t talk nothing about walls.

    But as I wrote, the words in the Quran may be many times as parables which describe how Allah protects us.
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016
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  17. Hassan
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    wa alaikum Peter. Yes I noticed the site I gave doesn't seem as user-friendly as it was. My point was to be aware of differences in meaning introduced by fallible humans who translate - if you already have, and are comfortable with, a resource which addresses that then no problems.

    The tafseers I would have directed you to are covered by the sites you link to. I think Ibn Kathir is an excellent reference. If you have specific tafseers in mind, but cannot find them online, it may need a trip to an islamic bookshop. I wouldn't guarantee them all being in English though. One thing about later tafseer is that the authors will have read the earlier ones, and clearly thought there was something which could be improved on.

    I wish you success in your studies.
  18. Peter_502
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    Thank you for sharing my friend. I still don't see how the sky is like a roof. It is more like a sleeping bag or a force shield. Or a runner bubble ball, like the one below (btw these look like so much fun, it would be great to try running in one of them) :)

    [​IMG]
    http://www.brucesussman.com/wp-cont...ski-bowl-summer-action-park-hamster-balls.jpg

    The person inside is sorrounded from all sides, not just the top. It would be a better analogy to how the atmosphere looks like around the earth.
  19. Peter_502
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    Salaam alaikum, Sister Herb.
    Does the word "roof" in Arabic also mean "shell" or "sphere"?
    I agree with you that the Quran does not say the earth is a pancake, that would be inaccurate and wrong since we know the earth is not flat... even if it looks that way to us. A person who thought the earth is a pancake would be under the impression it is flat.
    But what about a person who described the sky as a roof? Even if we want to take the analogy of a round shaped house, the roof still only covers from the top and sides. It doesn't cover from the bottom... if it did, we would be living inside a sphere or a box... which isn't a bad way to describe the atmosphere that surrounds the earth from all sides- above, below, beside, around it.

    Allah definitely does protect us from bad things coming from the sky that the ozone layer and atmosphere prevent... but He didn't create the sky as a roof that is above the world, rather He created it as a sphere or blanket that surrounds it from every side.

    Just my thoughts of course, I could be wrong. I have a hard time though seeing how one could describe the atmosphere as being a "roof" over humanity, given that we live on a round globe and it surrounds and protects us all.
  20. Peter_502
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    Peace be upon you also, Hassan. Thanks for the information. I have a Muslim friend in my city from a Dawah Centre who said he can get me an English copy of Fath al Bari, which is an explanation of not the Quran, but Sahih Bukhari.
    Do you know what is the earliest tafsir of the Quran ever written? Was it written by Tabari or others before him?

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