Question for former Christians regarding prayer

[BigAk]

Salam Alaikum,

A brief dialog with one of my Christian friends lead to a discussion on the differences between the Muslim praying act vs. how the Christians pray. I pointed out how the bible mentions the various prophets of God including Jesus(pbu) falling on their faces and praying and the similarity to how the Muslim prays. My claim is that what Christians call prayer today is not really prayers but rather a mere act of thanking God for what He has provided and asking Him for protection, health, and wealth..and more... etc...

I guess my question to our former Christian brothers/sister; am I correct by asserting that Christians do not really "pray", but rather perform some type of "thanking and asking" ritual which they have grown accustomed to calling "prayer" ??

If I'm wrong, how do the Christians pray?? I have not really seen them pray during my past visits to their Sunday congregations.

I seek correction if I'm wrong. I appreciate your help and information.

.

 

[shasha]

As-salam alaykum.

I'm a former Catholic (Christian). I went to Catholic school from Kindergarten to Med School.

I don't know if you're talking about born again Christians. But, for Roman Catholics, they have daily prayers, too. They have the daily rosary (the one where they pray using the bead necklace looking thing), Angelus (done every 6am, 6pm and 12nn), the 3 o'clock habit (because they believe that Jesus Christ pbuh died at 3 o'clock). They are all prayers of remembrance. I guess, the reason why you don't see Catholics praying these prayers is because they were advised to those prayers, but, it's not like a must. Most Catholics view that those who pray these prayers completely are either very religious Catholics or nuns or priests. I don't even know anybody who does all these prayers. And, I'm from the Philippines which is a Catholic dominant country (more than 90% of population are Catholic Christians)! (except for nuns and priests of course ) Even like the religious elderly Catholics I know only pray daily rosary. I only remember doing them when I was in elementary because we were forced by the nuns in my Catholic school.

About Sunday congregation, they call it Sunday mass, now that is a Sunday of 'obligation.' All Catholics are obligated to attend this. It is an organized form of prayer lead by the priest. All Sunday masses are almost the same. The difference lies on the 'Gospel' (a certain part from the bible) that's going to be read for that day depending on the liturgical calendar and of course the 'Homily' or the sermon that the priest is going to give according to the Gospel that is read. And, also, yeah the songs that the choir will choose to sing. But, the order of how the whole prayer is done is the same every week. This mass is about seeking forgiveness, renewing of faith, receiving a blessing from God and being thankful for it.

As a former Catholic, the major difference that I noticed and what attracted me most to Islam is to whom you are addressing the prayers. In Islam, we pray directly to God. For Catholics, almost all prayers are directed to people - like Mother Mary, Jesus, Saints etc (peace be upon them) and they ask them to pray for them to God. Kinda complicated huh? There are only few prayers that are directly praying to God since Catholics believe that Jesus is also God. That's why, now that I'm already a Muslim, I appreciate prayers more. It's a direct communication to God and that's how prayers should be.

Again, this is for Catholic Christians. There are different sects for Christians.

 

[Yusuf1990]

Wa'alaykum as-salaam warahmatullaah,

As a former Christian I can tell you that when I saw how the Muslims prayed it touched me. And that it is verrryyy common for Christians who are learning about Islaam to pray by prostrating to God, as obviously this is how all the Prophets prayed and its a position which humbles oneself.

JazakumAllaahu khairan.

 

[BigAk]

Thank you shasha for the information. I wonder how the baptists do their prayers if any different from the catholics. Again, in my over 20 years of living in the US, I have never really observed a specific way the baptist Christians pray besides what they usually perform when bowing their heads and thanking the Lord for various aspects of their lives and requesting specific events to take place....etc... I have never viewed what they do in Sunday as prayers; however I have never been to a catholic church; just baptist.

.

 

[tldukr]

As an Orthodox Christian, we continue to have our 8 daily prayer times and we do prostrations also. We also have a tradition which is similar to dhikr called the Jesus Prayer.

 

[amir011]

salam aleykum
Before i became a muslim i was in the Swedish Protestantic church and i never seen any protestant pray other then have there hands together but ofcurse most dosnt pray at all and the few that does only do on sundays in church not like we muslim have our daily prayers that we must do
I think the protestants only realy pray once a week that they must do

 

[BigAk]

As an Orthodox Christian, we continue to have our 8 daily prayer times and we do prostrations also. We also have a tradition which is similar to dhikr called the Jesus Prayer.

Would you please explain the details of how your perform your 8 prayers and what you say and do while performing them?? Also, why is it so little known about this among the Christian culture in the US? This comes to me as news.

.

 

[tldukr]

Would you please explain the details of how your perform your 8 prayers and what you say and do while performing them?? Also, why is it so little known about this among the Christian culture in the US? This comes to me as news.

.

The Orthodox Church constitutes a small minority in the United States. We are about 1% of the population I think. But in Greece, Russia, the Ukraine, Egypt, Ethiopia, Lebanon, Israel, Eritrea and other Middle Eastern and Eastern Europe countries we make up a majority or at least a significant amount of the population. We are the most ancient and traditional of all the churches that call themselves Christian.

The Roman Catholic Church broke from the Orthodox Church in 1054. This became the world's largest denomination, which in turn faced a schism with Martin Luther and King Henry VIII. So the Western tradition is largely Protestant and Roman Catholic. They eventually widdled down the fasts (Wednesday and Friday, Great Lent, St. Phillip's Fast, etc.) and have disregarded the Canonical hours of prayer and replaced them with Rosaries and other Devotions. Many Protestants have totally abandoned our liturgical tradition. They also rarely make prostrations and have replaced it with kneeling.

The Orthodox Church has continued in her tradition of prayer, fasting, and prostrations. We worship God with our lips, our stomachs, and our bodies.

Here is a clip of an Egyptian Coptic Orthodox Church:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u84S0JcgoIk

The prayer book is called the Agpeya.

Here is one of the night prayers called vespers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEU5xgGz53w

 

[BigAk]

The Orthodox Church constitutes a small minority in the United States. We are about 1% of the population I think. But in Greece, Russia, the Ukraine, Egypt, Ethiopia, Lebanon, Israel, Eritrea and other Middle Eastern and Eastern Europe countries we make up a majority or at least a significant amount of the population. We are the most ancient and traditional of all the churches that call themselves Christian.

The Roman Catholic Church broke from the Orthodox Church in 1054. This became the world's largest denomination, which in turn faced a schism with Martin Luther and King Henry VIII. So the Western tradition is largely Protestant and Roman Catholic. They eventually widdled down the fasts (Wednesday and Friday, Great Lent, St. Phillip's Fast, etc.) and have disregarded the Canonical hours of prayer and replaced them with Rosaries and other Devotions. Many Protestants have totally abandoned our liturgical tradition. They also rarely make prostrations and have replaced it with kneeling.

The Orthodox Church has continued in her tradition of prayer, fasting, and prostrations. We worship God with our lips, our stomachs, and our bodies.

Here is a clip of an Egyptian Coptic Orthodox Church:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u84S0JcgoIk

The prayer book is called the Agpeya.

Here is one of the night prayers called vespers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEU5xgGz53w

Hmmm.. Very interesting.. I had no idea such had existed. But, from seeing the videos I gather that you too have the same beliefs as the rest of the Christians. In the video I heard them referring to Maryam as the "mother of god" (Istagfir Allah); if I was not mistaken. I speak arabic btw. Also, it seems like you also believe in the trinity!! (as conveyed in 1John 5:7)

I had no idea that there were some sect of Christians that actually prostrated. However, the second video the worshiper did not prostrate. Isn't it the same sect??

Also, who was the person in the picture they brought over?

Thanks for the information tldukr.

.

 

[tldukr]

Yes we do share some beliefs with most Christians, but we also have some very distinct beliefs also. Our practices tend to be much more different and even weird to other Christians. Prostrations are only made at certain times of the services. So for that clip there was no point at which a prostration was necessary. They are not the same, but very similar in belief and practice. They both are Orthodox.

The guy in the picture is يوحنا الدمشقي (Yuḥannā Al Demashqi-St.John of Damascus) He is an Orthodox saint. He was also an administrator for a muslim Caliph Abd Al-Malik at one time. He defended the use of images, for veneration not to be worshipped.

 

[Aapa]

Salaam,

Brother you need to understand that there are many denominations of Christianity.

There are many sub-sects of Baptists. Some are firm in ritual and close to the Anglican Church others are very free form. I think you really ought to visit some of the local churches to gain a sense of the many forms of prayer. When people start to talk in tongues it is a wonder to behold.
The music of the Black churches in America is a beauty of worship by itself. The length of the prayer services can last over three hours!

 

[tldukr]

There are some 33,000 known denominations and know very well of the Black churches in America, especially the AME's and Holiness Pentecostal. The Baptist: American Baptist, Missionary Baptist, Southern Baptist, Independent Baptist, etc. All of their beliefs and worship styles come out of the European Reformed Christianity and at times mixed with African indigenous traditions, as in the Black churches with rythmic music, dancing (shouting,) etc.

 

[BigAk]

Wow.... 33,000 different denominations??? for real??? I can imagine this can get pretty complex if one was to sincerely seek the true denomination. I don't mean to redicule, but...... Al hamdu lilah for being a Muslim... just merely from this particular angle.

Once again; I appreciate your information and education. May Allah reward you and guide us all to the right path. Ameen.

.

 

[Hard Rock Moslem]

Yes, according to Newsweek, April 2000 addition there are 33,800 christian denominations. I'm trying to get a copy of that magazine and search through website but failed. Now maybe more...