Questions to Muslims

[Zafran]

Salaam

i Think the brothers and sisters have given you good responses - i'll just add some things

1 - Hijab isnt just for women but also for men - a Man also has rules of what he can and cannot show

2 - every human is born with fitrah - or innocence its the the state very child is in - people choose to go away from it - some just follow the society or family they are born in.

3 - Art is allowed - Just look at Mosques -

4 - We respect Jesus pbuh - but we also respect other peoples belief - You should ask the chrsiatins why they dont blink when Jesus pbuh is slurred - or when Moses, David or soloman pbuta are slurred? Whats with that???

 

[TheHumbleWun]

Hello Sacred Thought,

I get the impression that much of what you've been taught is from the media, non-Muslims, anti-Islamic websites. They've clouded your mind and distorted the Truth from you. They've stolen your free will. They've imprinted propaganda in your brain, eyes, and ears.

I am happy to see you join this forum and ask Muslims these questions, because this is where you will get direct answers - from Muslims. This is a good step for a change and I pray you are guided.

You need to re-learn everything you've taught about Islam from ground zero. If you are sincere and open hearted then you should read the Quran. It answers all your questions and more.

Look around you, more people are reverting to Islam than any other faith, even post 9/11!!. Although this shouldn't be the reason for you to become Muslim, it should not be disregarded either.

 

[Sacred_Thought]

Salaam,

Funny thing you write but do not want to respond. Is that simply to fulfill your own expectations. At the end you can justify your stand by saying: " I told you so!"

This is why I often find it hard to ask questions - Even when I hint that I might not answer - people get on the defensive and assume that I am going to start calling out how wrong and misguided you are. That's not my place. As has been said here, the choice is yours and it's all up to you to find the truth on your own.

...Were you expecting me to drop bible verses here? Hardly ;D

Though I did notice Bible verses being used. I find this strange, too.

If the Bible - the Injil - is corrupt, why is anyone quoting it?

It seems that it invalidates the whole point of the Bible being corrupted.

Although, I do find it strange that the most critical points in the Bible, the crucifixion, the ressurection, and that Jesus died on the cross for your sins is vehemently denied.

If that is the case, why would Christians, even back then, be so convinced? Because it wasn't in the original Bible?

Make no mistake, I do not assume that the Bible is the Utter Word of God (nor do I believe any book is), since much of it has been lost in the first translations by monks writing all of that info by hand. That there is such a huge room for error, and so forth. However, I do believe that the crucifixion and the ressurection were pillars of the Christian faith and would not have changed to the dramatic extent that Muslims believe. It's been postulated that no God would send "his begotten son" to earth to die in the brutal fashion Christians believe, but in that postulation it also dismisses the power of a god that created the entire universe. Nevermind the Trinity, not even all Christians believe in that. I think that's the biggest hangup Muslims have about Christianity, and the converts who come to Islam do so because they were never allowed to think for themselves (and I don't blame them, there's a lot of wading to do when going through the bible of any religious text).

Again - these aren't attacks, just observations.

As to the Qur'an. If we are going to use excerpts from the Bible, then let's use the example of Babel, where the Babylonians built a tower to the heavens to try and reach God. This inevitably annoyed God and He destroyed the tower and sent every group of people into every direction, and in their own tongues so they could not understand one another (origin of the word "Babble"). Here is where I am going with this.

Why is Arabic "god's chosen language" when Arabic wasn't spoken by many of the prophets of Israel, and a language Jesus himself did not speak? Why is it that suddenly the Arabs seem like God's chosen people (something the Jews have always laid claim to), why is Arabic the - pardon the expression, "club language" - and so forth? To me, I don't think Arabic is any such thing. It seems more reasonable to assume that as invading Arabs conquered neighboring lands they imposed their own cultures and customs on the newly defeated lands, and used the Qur'an as a means of justifying it. I have an extremely hard time believing that God could choose Arabic when, at the very least, ancient Hebrew, Aramic, or something like that would make more sense. Those are the languages of the traditional holy land, and for those of you who've been on the Haj know that the Saudi pennensula is a stretch of desert. My fiancee was a Hajji and she's seen how bare and barren that place is. Because the Kabbah is there, you might say. I don't know. That's a few sites where the grand majority sit in the holy land most know as what was once ancient Judea - the land surrounding Jerusalem, the homeland of the Jews, the "original chosen people."

The other problem about Arabic being the chosen language is that people study Arabic and learn Arabic, but they don't know and understand Arabic. What good is learning the language if you don't really understand it?

And before you use Latin as a counter on me in terms of a liturgical language, remember that while this was once the case, it is no longer (Except with Catholics). The Bible is now translated in all or nearly all languages, so that people can understand (getting past the "Babble problem" )

The other part is that, if the Qur'an was truly infallible, why then is there such gross distortion in the way it is misinterpreted among the different subcultures that fall under the umbrella of Islam? Why do some of you say music is not to be tolerated (in this very thread!) while others (in this very thread) say it is not! Why is there such intense schools of Islamic thought - Wahhabism - compared to those of you who don't mind going out from time to time to watch a movie? Shouldn't the Qur'an have given no room for even as tiny divisions as these? It seems that, even if the Qur'an itself is not infallible, people most definitely are - and the way that the Qur'an can be derived with such... open... interpretation, is the source of a lot of problems. I think because of the nature of Arabic itself, it's hard to come to definitive answers. But this comes the other problem, too. You're meant to read the Qur'an and get your own interpretation, right? (Something the Bible doesn't give room for) - Well, wouldn't this in and of itself give rise to the discord I've just mentioned? If a million people read the same book and each walk away with different interpretations within their own heart, who is following [/i]what[/i] exactly?

Remember - before you write in rage, or write in sarcasm, keep in mind I am asking questions based on observations, not to antagonize.

 

[Sacred_Thought]

Why do some of you say music is not to be tolerated (in this very thread!) while others (in this very thread) say it is not so bad?

Fixed - got ahead of myself.

 

[daywalker]

Although, I do find it strange that the most critical points in the Bible, the crucifixion, the ressurection, and that Jesus died on the cross for your sins is vehemently denied.

Things which is against Quran´s ideology , must be denied. Things which are okay according to Quran , may mentioned, but not must.

What good is learning the language if you don't really understand it?

what do you mean with it?

and i would request others to avoid saying he is brainwashed this and that. cause by mentioning he has been brain washed or effected through media will not help also.

Instead saying this if anybody can remove his misconception, bismillah.

And brother sacred thought, please follow specific topics, and dont mix 10 topics in one post, it will be easier for us to read your views and also responce after it. thanks

 

[TheHumbleWun]

If the Bible - the Injil - is corrupt, why is anyone quoting it?

It seems that it invalidates the whole point of the Bible being corrupted.

Verses of the Bible that agree with the Quran then we Muslims accept it. Verses of the of the Bible that contradict the Quran we Muslims reject it. Verses that are in the Bible but not in the Quran, we Muslims stay neutral - we neither agree or disagree, because we don't know if that is the Word of God.

Most importantly, nowhere in the Bible does Jesus (pbuh) state, "I am God, worship me." Look throughout it yourself, ask the priests & pastors, call the Pope. You will not find it. In order to claim divinity one must state it. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) never stated he was God.

The Quran came as a revelation to fix those man-made errors.

Although, I do find it strange that the most critical points in the Bible, the crucifixion, the ressurection, and that Jesus died on the cross for your sins is vehemently denied.

The central theme of a Christian belief that Jesus (peace be upon him) died for your sins has a basic paradox. If you state that Jesus, the human flesh, is God then your god is dead! If you state that that Jesus is just a human being then he could not have saved anyone. Why? When you die (as a human being) do you save anyone? I don't think so.

I do find it strange for someone to believe that a person that eats, sleeps, uses the toilet is called God. God Almighty is self-sufficient and does not need anything or anyone. It is we humans that need God.

It seems like you are eager to ask questions. I urge you to first use the search function on this website. Many of the questions you stated has already been answered. You can also you www.islamqa.com to find answers.

Don't focus on minor things like music in Islam - you do not yet have sufficient knowlede to understand this topic, you should focus on the central ideas of Islam, such as 5 daily prayers, belief in One God, etc.

P.S. I agree with brother Daywalker - state one question per post. It require detail answers and you & others might be overwhelmed with answers and posts.

 

[Qur'an&Sunnah]

:salam2:

To start, about Muslims using the bible. When a Muslim debate with a Christian we do not use the Qur'an because the Christians do not believe in the Qur'an so what we say from the Qur'an does not matter to them, but if we use the Bible they will look over what we say. Yes, the Bible has been tampered with but the Christians utter out their mouth things that are not in the Bible; for example, Jesus declaring that he is god, a lot of Muslims that have studied the Bible and many other holy books have proven this wrong like Ahmed Deedat (from Allah we come to Allah we must return, May Allah grant him Jannah). AND, when they say Jesus has died for their sins. IN THE BIBLE, it says otherwise:

Ezekiel 18:20-The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

We use the bible in order to show how it contradicts itself, only meaning that man has tampered with it because how can GOD contradict himself? It's absurd. If the Bible was never tampered with and if Allah (SWT) said that He would have protected it like He said with the Qur'an then we would have also taken that as a book of God, but the Qur'an is protected and it confirms what the scriptures before it said.

That it is protected and its a confirmation:

Surah Yunus, Chp.10, Verse(AYAH). 37:

37. And it was not (possible) for this Qur'an to be produced by other than Allah, but (it is) a confirmation of what was before it and a detailed explanation of the (former) Scriptures, about which there is not doubt, from Allah the Lord of the worlds.

Surah Al-Hijr, Chp 15, Verse. 9

9. Indeed, it is We (Allah, alone) who sent it down the message (i.e. the Qur'an), and indeed, We (Allah) will be its guardian.

*When Allah mentions Himself as "WE" it is in a state of Grandeur, not meaning that He is a group (Astighfirullah); for example, a King or someone of royalty will use this term.

So, therefore, we use the bible in order to show its contradictions and because a couple of Christians will not believe if we use the Qur'an because they do not believe in it. And like Humblewun said and May Allah bless him, that we except what does not contradict the Qur'an and we reject what does.

As for the Arabic, Allah (SWT) revealed the message in arabic because He sent it down to an Arab. It will only be right to send it down to him in arabic. To refute your claim that "if God is so powerful why do He need to send it in The Prophet's language?" Allah (SWT) knows what is before use and what is behind us meaning He knows what we have done in the past and He knows what we will do in the future. I'm saying this to say that in the Qur'an Allah (SWT) says that IF he sent it in a language other than arabic the people would have denied and basically said we can not even understand it so why believe in it? SubhanaAllah! Surely Allah (SWT) is the most Powerful and surely He aids the believers.

And we do NOT give our own interpretation to the Qur'an, the people around the Prophet has spent their lives with the Prophet and after the Prophet who intepreted the Qur'an, therefore, we refer to the hadeeth and the tafsir of the Sahaba and the Tabi'een (People around the Prophet and the People after him )

Allah (SWT) says: And hold fast all together, by the rope of Allah, and be not divided among yourselves. (3:103)

We as muslims SHOULD call what Allah (SWT) and what Prophet Ibrahim (AS) [Abraham] called us, which is Muslims.

The Prophet of Allah says there will be 72-73 sects and all will enter the fire except the ones who follow Allah (SWT) and MY SUNNAH.

So now this is to Muslims, call yourselves Muslims and adhere to what Allah (SWT) and the Prophet have brought. Follow the example in which the Prophet has sent. And May Allah (SWT) grant us All Jannatul Firdous, protect us from the torment of the grave and the hereafter, and the trials of Messiah Dajjal.

If I have said anything that is wrong it was from myself, and if I said anything right and true then it was from Allah (SWT). Ameen

:salam2:

 

[Zafran]

Salaam

1 - the bible is not the Injeel - the Injeel is the gospel of Jesus pbuh which he was preeching at his time

The bible consists of 66/73 books depending on which bible you read - the catholics have 73 the prostants have 66. The NT has 4 gosples - written by people after him -

2 - God choose Hebrew before as Ayman1 has said - then araimic and then arabic - they have something in common - they are all semetic languages.

3 - The idea of the cross and that Jesus pbuh died for everyones sins is seen as an unjust act in Islam - one innocent man dying for the sins of all humanity is unfair - and God is not unjust - everyone has to bare there own sin and repent to God sincerly -

By the way there is no need of "the lamb" to be sacrifced for the sins of humanity as we do not believe in the original sin - again another unjust idea - In Islam Adam pbuh sins and repents and takes care of his own sin just the way we have to - God forgives Adam pbuh and he becomes the first prophet of God.

Arabs invaded lands but the people kept there culture - some places were conquerd beacsue people were fed up of the old rule - like the Byzantines in Jerusalem who used the temple mount as a dumping ground. The Muslims ceaned it up and built the AlAsqa Mosque there and let the Jews and christains freely practice there religion - unlike the western christendom.

Ofcourse lets not forget that the golden age came about thanks to the arabs - without the arabs many greek works would have been lost - but the arabs kept them and translated them inarabic and were analyzing them way before anybody else - they also created a culture of education, economics, social and civic empire. Communication and trade was made easy thanks to the arabs conversion to Islam - Before they were clans - now after Islam they beacame a dyanic people.

one person who benefited form the arabs was ST Aquines.

and yes many places where the arab armies never went such as indonsia/malaysia/east coast of africa were all called to Islam thanks to traders and missionries.

 

[Rashadi]

In the name of Allah, all praise be to Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful



Which religion does not favor its own people??? Christianity favors its own people, Hinduism favors its own people, Judaism favors its own people, and yes definitely Islam favors its own people, and that is why you have something such as being a MUSLIM or a NON-MUSLIM. Common sense could answer that really. And before you talk about what the Quran says, point out the verse your talking about. What makes you think Quran states that non-muslims are on the level of animals. Does Islam not teach us to be kind with our neighbors, no matter what religion they are? Does Islam not teach us to be just with the non-muslims, and never to be oppressors? Learn Islam before you talk. Take a look at the history of Islam, and its RIGHTEOUS leaders, and how they treated non-muslims. Salahdin sent his personal physician, when the leader of his enemy was ill, and who would do that now? When his horse was lost, Salahdin sent two of his horses. And the soldiers of his enemy used to send people who were in need to Salahdin, because they knew he will trust them justly. This is an example of Islam, and a righteous muslim. And Muslims along with non muslims, with tranquility, side by side, in Jerusalam, spain, etc.

And again, learn Islam before you talk, we are allowed to give charity to even non muslims, and just because people do not do it, does not mean Islam teaches that. And Christians never do what the bible tells them to do, and you really do not want me to pick out verses from the bible that people never do. (covering the head is an obligation from the bible to just let you know). Hypocritical? Christians justify their actions by the verses of the bible, yet they stay away and deny some other actions the bible commands them to do? Try choosing a better example the next time. We are not hypocritical, we are muslims, only if we believe in every verse of the Quran. And yes we do give charity to non-muslims.



Yes, music is not allowed, however the use of a certain drum is in occasions, and music is not the only enjoyment on the face of this planet. We do listen to “nasheeds” (songs without music), and enjoy them. And you really think we need music that badly? No we don’t. Ask any muslim who has STOPPED listening to music, and ask him how grateful and happy he is to have stopped listening to it. And yes dance is allowed in private, and not publicly. Because we are not the people who let our mothers, sisters dance half naked in front of men and tempt the sexual desires of men, we are not the people who go about checking out the body of another half naked woman, other than our wives. (And I am referring to righteous muslims, and not people who call themselves MUSLIMS). Have you never heard of Islamic Art? Do look it up. We are allowed to draw, but not allowed to draw animate things , example; animals, birds etc. Many of my muslim friends draw things like cars, mountains, and etc.




We really do appreciate our Lord, more than any other nation. We are not the ones who associate partners with him, nor claim he has a son. We are not ones who give an image to our Lord, when the One who created you cannot be even comprehended. No one is like him, and we cannot comprehend how he looks like. And as I said, nothing wrong for you to be creative in Islam…



Look at islam, not at its people….



And again, look at islam and not its people…

The hijab - They say it's to guard your modesty, but to me it seems like the religion supposes that men are ravenous animals that will rape and violate any woman who isn't dressed in Hijab. That seems to be the end meaning of the point - that women are to be hidden because men can't keep their privates in their pants otherwise?

Did it occur to anyone that by doing this, it mystifies women, and leads to a desire to seem them out of the hijab that much more?

Women have been created as a beauty to this earth, and it is one of the things a man always longs for. And in Islam, women are jewels. Our religion gave the rights women require. And due to this fact, most of the people who enter islam in America are women. You might want your wife to walk half naked, and showing all her shape to other men, and by the time she has walked from street to another, 10’s of men would have already imagined sleeping with her. And I really see what kind of a husband you can be, if you want your wife to walk around like that. Men in Islam aren’t like that, and that is what islam teaches us anyways. We do not force women to wear the hijab, it is what they choose to do. And praise be to Allah, many of my sisters choose to wear it. They choose cover themselves, and do not want to present themselves in front of other men, except their husbands. And that is why the rate of rape is far way more in the west, than Saudi Arabia, etc…



And I thought the bible says “All men are brothers”. You wouldn’t be asking that question if you really believed in that would you?? And just to let you know, the Muslim world is not great at all, not at the moment atleast. So get your facts right before you talk. And learn the definition of kaafir. It is someone to whom the truth is presented and he denies it. And not every non- muslims is a kaafir. Bare that in mind.

P.S Remember the only reason I am using the bible against you, is because you believe in it, and you still believe that it is not corrupted. Else, I wouldn’t. As you said…



And why do you talk about the Quran if you believe it is not true? Do you fear that too many coincidental things will be pointed out from the bible?

MashaAllah, couldn't be said any better. It is obvious that certain people have to find something and when there isn't anything good to attack people with, they turn to these silly statesments such as the above. After reading them, to be honest, I found them too silly to even comment on but at the same time for the sake of truth and honesty I can't help but to bring the evidence to refute such lies and silly statements.

 

[Sacred_Thought]

P.S Remember the only reason I am using the bible against you, is because you believe in it, and you still believe that it is not corrupted. Else, I wouldn’t. As you said…

Actually, if you look over what I said, I said I don't believe any of the holy books are uncorrupted. You could even use the Torah on me, if you so chose.

You say not to look at Muslims, but the religion. If Muslims are the ones representing the religion, how can one ignore the representative? It would be like sending an ambassador to another country and having the ambassador say to his hosts, "Ignore me, but come to my country." Does that make any sense?

On this branch of thought, I think that is why the West has such an animosity toward Islam. It's true that Christians and Jews do horrible things - yes, they do. But when Hitler killed the Jews, he didn't do it under the banner of God, he did it under the ideaology of Nazism. When a person waging Jihad (in whatever way it is used or misused) against the West, it is being done so in the name of Islam (as I believe the only way to wage a righteous war, is under Islamic authorization), it condemns the attacker and the religion itself. If the attacker did it for say, a nationality - it would be the nation condemned - but true Muslims don't fight for a nation, only for the religion - yes?

That's just how it is. Now, don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that a single one of you are terrorists, but that's what I've noticed skimming over other threads - that the people, not the religion, should be held in contempt. Yet when they do it in the name of the religion, what do you honestly expect?

 

[slaveofAllah88]

Actually, if you look over what I said, I said I don't believe any of the holy books are uncorrupted. You could even use the Torah on me, if you so chose.

You say not to look at Muslims, but the religion. If Muslims are the ones representing the religion, how can one ignore the representative? It would be like sending an ambassador to another country and having the ambassador say to his hosts, "Ignore me, but come to my country." Does that make any sense?

On this branch of thought, I think that is why the West has such an animosity toward Islam. It's true that Christians and Jews do horrible things - yes, they do. But when Hitler killed the Jews, he didn't do it under the banner of God, he did it under the ideaology of Nazism. When a person waging Jihad (in whatever way it is used or misused) against the West, it is being done so in the name of Islam (as I believe the only way to wage a righteous war, is under Islamic authorization), it condemns the attacker and the religion itself. If the attacker did it for say, a nationality - it would be the nation condemned - but true Muslims don't fight for a nation, only for the religion - yes?

That's just how it is. Now, don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that a single one of you are terrorists, but that's what I've noticed skimming over other threads - that the people, not the religion, should be held in contempt. Yet when they do it in the name of the religion, what do you honestly expect?

:salam2:
1st of all Hitler actually did jews on the base of religion ... he convinced the Germans that as a christians Let me give you ref

quotes from Mein Kampf
Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.

-Hitler (Mein Kampf)



Hitler's work of the Lord only agrees with Biblical scripture:And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

-Colossians 3:17

if you care read this article
http://nobeliefs.com/hitlerchristian.htm

your 2nd claim that " it would be stupid to say dont look at people look at religion"

If you go to a filthy place and start blaming them for religion would that be fair, a ambassador is usually the one that represents the country how are those people representing Islam when they are not even following it?
How can you look at a American buy born and raised in america whos grandparents maybe where from Egypt and he doesn't even know anything and say See those Egyptians are like that how is that fair???
If you want the true representation look at the religion itself or atleast loook at the people that actually follow the religion

If a person is drunk would it be fair for me to go up to hiim and say SEE SEE all christians are DRUNKARD's ... If someone beats his Wife ... would it be fair to say CHristianity says beat ur wife, the mormons have more than 1 wife and they treat them badly Maybe next thing we shud post in Media is how mormons treat women ... Or maybe i should go to my university residence at 4 am on a friday evenning and make video to represent my university ... and tell them this is my univ all the ppl here get drunk and go adult stuff
How are you being logical im sorry you keep on posing ideas which you dont think about

Well hitler and this ties in good with my Idea about ppl using Islam as terrorist ... well there are hundred of books written to prove that hitler is not a christian and you know what the emphasises is that he never followed christianity why cant you do that with the terrorist when Islam says all human life is precious and no one is allowed to kill an innocent then why do you keep blaming Islam ... the media is just using Islam to hide the war crime done by Isreal and US maybe you see what is being done to people in Iraq, Palestine and other places and then tell me who is the terrorist and if ur decision is biased or not

:salam2:
PS: again my sugguestion think things logically from every angle possible

 

[iqzero]

Actually, if you look over what I said, I said I don't believe any of the holy books are uncorrupted. You could even use the Torah on me, if you so chose.

You say not to look at Muslims, but the religion. If Muslims are the ones representing the religion, how can one ignore the representative? It would be like sending an ambassador to another country and having the ambassador say to his hosts, "Ignore me, but come to my country." Does that make any sense?

On this branch of thought, I think that is why the West has such an animosity toward Islam. It's true that Christians and Jews do horrible things - yes, they do. But when Hitler killed the Jews, he didn't do it under the banner of God, he did it under the ideaology of Nazism. When a person waging Jihad (in whatever way it is used or misused) against the West, it is being done so in the name of Islam (as I believe the only way to wage a righteous war, is under Islamic authorization), it condemns the attacker and the religion itself. If the attacker did it for say, a nationality - it would be the nation condemned - but true Muslims don't fight for a nation, only for the religion - yes?

That's just how it is. Now, don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that a single one of you are terrorists, but that's what I've noticed skimming over other threads - that the people, not the religion, should be held in contempt. Yet when they do it in the name of the religion, what do you honestly expect?

*YAWN* I dont care what you think.

We muslims and Islam will be around and you just learn to live with it. LOL We are here to stay. Move on please.

Thanks for the so very often repeated allegations.

 

[iqzero]

A few questions - These will probably seem inflammatory, but I really do want to see if anyone can answer them. I don't intend to debate or argue anyone here, it's doubtful I will even respond, but I will read, and am curious. Here we go:

It seems to me that Islam favors only Muslims - The Umma, the Muslim brotherhood. Numerously the Qur'an states that non-Muslims are on the level of animals. Yet, in a most contradictory way, it says that Jews and Christians are people of the book - oh, and not to mention, all people are apparently born Muslim, but "lose their way." Shouldn't the very fact they were supposedly born Muslim keep the light of brotherhood beyond the extent of the Umma? It seems that charities go foremost toward Palestine and the like yet I have never heard of any Muslims assisting poor Christian countries, where Christians have been known to help because that is what their bible tells them to do. That all men are brothers. The outlook of Islam seems very close-minded indeed. It seems Allah would, having created all people, insist that Muslims respect that fact - yet there will always be precedence toward the fellow Muslim than the fellow human.

Then comes the idea of absolutely no music, no song, no dance, no enjoyment, in the Islamic way of life. Art is utterly banned - something about being tormented in Hellfire by your doodlings - what kind of culture is that? The Spartans dedicated their lives to war, and the way of the Spartans gave rise to an adjective meaning "without art, culture, sparse."

Look around you. Clearly, the Allah you pray to is an Allah with a creative streak. Look at the night sky on a clear day and see the stars. Look to the forests, the rivers. If Allah did not want people - created, mind you, in His image - to enjoy art and love things - why is Allah such a great artist in the world He made for you? Seems contradictory to me.

And it seems that, even this site - is flirting with danger. The emoticons there, are those not humanistic images?

And what about the women who wear their hijabs but still show parts of their hair - i.e, the way some Iranian women do? Why would you bother to wear that if you're showing it anyway?

The hijab - They say it's to guard your modesty, but to me it seems like the religion supposes that men are ravenous animals that will rape and violate any woman who isn't dressed in Hijab. That seems to be the end meaning of the point - that women are to be hidden because men can't keep their privates in their pants otherwise?

Did it occur to anyone that by doing this, it mystifies women, and leads to a desire to seem them out of the hijab that much more?

MY fiancee, who once called herself Muslim, noted that Arab men in the UK will ogle women at every opportunity - they really are pigs, aren't they? I don't mean to say that men don't naturally appreciate the female form, but in this example, they don't even realize how obvious they are at watching women. If women weren't kept under the abaya, it wouldn't be such a massive shock when Arabs and other Muslims come to the West.

Finally, if the Muslim world is so great - why do Muslims come to the West? I thought the Qur'an said not to associate with the kaffirs. Isn't this in violation of divine law?

Get over it already please. It will do you a world of good.

Muslims and Islam is here to stay and you sir can do nothing about it.

Have a nice day.

 

[Sacred_Thought]

*YAWN* I dont care what you think.

That's fine. I don't care what you think either since you brought nothing to the table.

We muslims and Islam will be around and you just learn to live with it. LOL We are here to stay. Move on please.

You sound touchy. I think you need to find some inner peace.

Thanks for the so very often repeated allegations.

You presume that I am pointing fingers at Muslims. I am pointing fingers at my own observations. Troll much?

Anyway.

As to Hitler, yes, he did mention his murdering the Jews as justified in the Bible but only to rally the support of the Christians. There were myriad reasons why he mobilized his resources against the Jews, for one, they have always been Europe's scapegoats, and in the eyes of post-Versailles Germany, were the reason that Germany lost the First Great War. If anyone can find me instances of German soldiers acting strictly under the work of the Bible, or having bishops leading units, I would be most intrigued. There's simply so much more to it that it nearly renders Hitler's mention moot. Besides, he wanted the support of the Catholics. He manipulated, it's what people like that do.

And guys - I don't think you're reading properly what I have been trying to say. I don't believe that any of the books have not been tampered with to some extent. That means I believe that the Torah, the Bible, and yes, the Qur'an, have all been tampered with in some way. This may upset some of you, and I apologize in advance if it has.

 

[Sacred_Thought]

So I'm arrogant now? All right, then. If that's what it takes to find a few answers.

 

[Rashadi]

That's fine. I don't care what you think either since you brought nothing to the table.



You sound touchy. I think you need to find some inner peace.




You presume that I am pointing fingers at Muslims. I am pointing fingers at my own observations. Troll much?

Anyway.

As to Hitler, yes, he did mention his murdering the Jews as justified in the Bible but only to rally the support of the Christians. There were myriad reasons why he mobilized his resources against the Jews, for one, they have always been Europe's scapegoats, and in the eyes of post-Versailles Germany, were the reason that Germany lost the First Great War. If anyone can find me instances of German soldiers acting strictly under the work of the Bible, or having bishops leading units, I would be most intrigued. There's simply so much more to it that it nearly renders Hitler's mention moot. Besides, he wanted the support of the Catholics. He manipulated, it's what people like that do.

And guys - I don't think you're reading properly what I have been trying to say. I don't believe that any of the books have not been tampered with to some extent. That means I believe that the Torah, the Bible, and yes, the Qur'an, have all been tampered with in some way. This may upset some of you, and I apologize in advance if it has.

The Catholic church and the leaders supported Hitler and the Nazis and it was the churches in Europe which were causing all the hate for Jews and they were persecuted and killed by Christians for centuries prior to the holocaust. There was no need to manipulate anything and there is no evidence to indicate that he was not a Christian because a Christian is defined by faith in christ and he did that. As for the Quran being tampered with, this is false and even harssh critics of Islam have admitted that the Quran is intact and remains pure. One such authors was Sir William Muir who was known for his prejudices toward Islam, however, he studied the Quran, it's manuscripts, history and was forced to confirm the claims made by Muslims and by the Quran itself. Muir wrote: "the koran has been handed down to us unaltered" and "there is no other book which has remained for 12 centuries with such pure text". This is not my opinion but a fact acknowledged by western/Christian historians who have studied the Quran and everything about for themselves.

The Quran has only one version and all Muslims read the same scripture. The language is still alive and the Quran as a whole is memorized by millions of Muslims around the globe from all ages and ethnic groups. This tradition of memorizing the entire Quran traces back to the time of the Prophet(saaws). This is what is unique about this book. Not a word has changed, deleted or added. All over the world and at all times have Muslims been reciting the same Quran and it has passed the test for 1,400 years now and counting. This will never change because the Quran is preserved by the author Himself(Allah/God). That is why it challenges mankind to produce a scripture like it and to the Arabs it was an insult because they were excellent poets and their language was at its peak. The Quran in not a book of poetry yet it put the poetry of the greatest Arabs to shame and it has been noticed even by non-Muslims that the Quran is unique and it is the book of highest elequence and a unique style. Those non-Muslims who have studied the Quran in Arabic and heard it being recited have admitted thmselves that this scripture could not have been produced by a human being, and that is why the ignorant have not been able to explain except that they foolishly accuse it of being the work of the devil.

No offense has been taken for your claims about Quran but that don't mean it's true. This is your opinion and its falsehood. I don't follow blind faith and i accepted Islam because of its evidence and I know the history of the Quran. The Bible has been tampered with and that is acknowledged and admitted by even Christian Bible scholars but no one except the ignorant who know nothing of the Quran have been able to privide evidence for their claims. However, there is a whole lot of evidence to prove the authenticity, and purity of the Quran and this fact has been admitted by non-Muslim who have under taken it to study it for themselves.

 

[Sacred_Thought]

Rashadi, thank you for the insightful post.

The sole reason I believe that all of the books have been tampered with is simply this: They have been in the hands of men, and have been since they were first ascribed. Did Muhammad, who was said to be illiterate and unable to write, write the Qur'an himself, or did he have someone do it for him? If yes, then that is a point in my mind for weakness right there. If not, remember, the book has been in the hands of men for 1400 years. There is always room for something to go awry.

You say that the work is protected by Allah himself: If that was so, why were not the preceding books? I am told the Qur'an is a "fixed version" of the Jewish Torah. Why was the Torah not in Allah's care? Do you see where my line of thinking comes from?

In the end - and yes, this is my personal opinion and should in no way be seen as trying to discourage those of you mighty in your faith to believe otherwise - that I cannot be certain than this book is uncorruptable. Even if there is a consistency to it agreed upon by Western scholars, there's just a great leap of faith, in my humble opinion, to hedge it all on this. Consistency doesn't necessarily mean infallibility.

I am almost inclined to mention someone - who I believe claimed to be Muslim - that argued against the 100% validity of the Qur'an, but I will not mention him here because it's controversial and I don't want this thread to crumble into a flame war.

Oh, and thank you all for your insightful posts.

 

[Tabassum07]

At the end of the day, does it matter if you think that the Quran is flawed or not? Muslims will tell you that the Quran is one book preserved for all ages. Historians will tell you this book has never been tampered with. If you have doubts that this book is not authentic, and has been altered by man, have you looked at the scientific proofs that have been given in the Quran 1400 years ago, and are only now being proven by Science? Have you looked up hadiths of Rasulallah s.a.w. who said that the signs of the last day would be such and such, and now we actually see those signs? Doesn't that make you wonder that there might actually be some truth in all this?

In the end, there is no compulsion in religion. Every human has been given a conscience, free will, wisdom, the ability to seek knowledge and rational logic and reason. You have to make the final decision. Debating with us will only make you more uncertain, because that's what the Shaitan is doing, putting doubts into your mind, and you're actually listening to him. I see your first post in this thread, and your subsequent posts, and each post of yours is becoming more farther away from a final decision. Remember, we won't gain anything if you believe or not. But you will. Do make up your mind what you want to believe in. Because you can keep saying that you don't believe that the book is authentic, but all of us do, billions of people all over the world, but it looks like you don't want to be convinced.

 

[slaveofAllah88]

At the end of the day, does it matter if you think that the Quran is flawed or not? Muslims will tell you that the Quran is one book preserved for all ages. Historians will tell you this book has never been tampered with. If you have doubts that this book is not authentic, and has been altered by man, have you looked at the scientific proofs that have been given in the Quran 1400 years ago, and are only now being proven by Science? Have you looked up hadiths of Rasulallah s.a.w. who said that the signs of the last day would be such and such, and now we actually see those signs? Doesn't that make you wonder that there might actually be some truth in all this?

In the end, there is no compulsion in religion. Every human has been given a conscience, free will, wisdom, the ability to seek knowledge and rational logic and reason. You have to make the final decision. Debating with us will only make you more uncertain, because that's what the Shaitan is doing, putting doubts into your mind, and you're actually listening to him. I see your first post in this thread, and your subsequent posts, and each post of yours is becoming more farther away from a final decision. Remember, we won't gain anything if you believe or not. But you will. Do make up your mind what you want to believe in. Because you can keep saying that you don't believe that the book is authentic, but all of us do, billions of people all over the world, but it looks like you don't want to be convinced.

:salam2:
i totally agree with what the sister has said ... I would like for you to give some reference and first understand Quran and what your saying doesn't make sense cuz you dont even know how Quran was all collected and revised many times again and again and again to make sure its correct and if it was flawed there wud be many version (like bible) or many verses in arguement like other scripture but there is not even a single word thats in arguement, and like the sister said so many scientific accuracies if you think Quran is not correct than why dont you take the challenge of Quran and produce something like it?
thank you

 

[Musulmanin]

:salam2:

Al-Kafirun means "the Unbelievers."the 109th Sura (chapter) of the Qur'an.

Al-Kafirun

قُلۡ يَـٰٓأَيُّہَا ٱلۡڪَـٰفِرُونَ

Say (O Prophet): O ye who reject faith! (1)

لَآ أَعۡبُدُ مَا تَعۡبُدُونَ

I worship not that which ye worship; (2)

وَلَآ أَنتُمۡ عَـٰبِدُونَ مَآ أَعۡبُدُ

Nor worship ye that which I worship. (3)

وَلَآ أَنَا۟ عَابِدٌ۬ مَّا عَبَدتُّمۡ

And I shall not worship that which ye worship. (4)

وَلَآ أَنتُمۡ عَـٰبِدُونَ مَآ أَعۡبُدُ

Nor will ye worship that which I worship. (5)

لَكُمۡ دِينُكُمۡ وَلِىَ دِينِ

Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion. (6)


This chapter of the Quran always comes to my mind when people resist the obvious truth of Islam.