right hand possession...help me understand

[somewhatinspired]

i am finding it hard to understand/ accept the concept of right hand possession(slaves). i understand that Islam introduced a certain amount of liberty to slaves. but i am having a very hard time accepting the idea of intercourse with slave girls as not being utterly wrong. ive been trying to find as much information on the subject and i either find articles stating how horrible and barbaric the practice is/was, or articles reluctantly defending the Quran and practices of Muslims, in which case i found no justification.

from what i understand, the custom was to take the women left over from a battle and distribute them. and in which case the women had no right or say in the matter, and the "owner" had the right to have intercourse with her, even though he did not have to marry her or make any kind of dowry. and this did not count as one of the four wives he was allowed to marry. i have not found anything limiting the amount of slaves one could own or have intercourse with.

i find this really hard to swallow.

would ones wife have right to ask her husband not to do this?

i just cant imagine this happening.

i spend hours defending Islam to everyone i know. and this somehow makes me feel ashamed of myself.
because i am a Muslim by choice, and i honestly believe that Islam is directly from Allah.

so i have to accept this??

if i met a brother who bought a bunch of sex slaves from china, and brought them to his house, and kept them there raping them. would i have to accept that?? because my first and as it stands now only thought would be to kill him. what about his wives?

can someone help me understand all of this?

my iman is seriously being tested.

 

[Basicofislam]

:salam2: Dear sister in that time it was a custom that you take the prisoner of war as slaves. But unlike like in europe where they were treated badly and her child would not get any part of the fathers property after he died. In Islam this was not the case. If a slave girl had your child. The child had the right of inheritance. Beside that the slave girl had the right to refuse if she wanted. Once she entered the household she was considered a part of the family. It was a different type of a marriage.So you could not force a slave to say yes.It should be clear that Islam raised the status of slaves higher than that of free men in un-Islamic societies even by modern standards.

 

[Basicofislam]

:salam2: The author of _The House of Saud_, an American journalist, recounts how the staff and management of the New York Waldorf-Astoria hotel were horrified that King Faysal in an early US visit had not only allowed his black servant into the state dining room but had seated him at his very table - a "white-only" table in a "white-only" room! They had no idea that even slaves in Islam had to be FED and CLOTHED with the same food and clothing as their owner as the Prophet, upon him peace, had stipulated in his "last pilgrimage" speech:

"And your slaves! see that you feed them such food as you eat yourselves and dress them with what you yourself wear. And if they commit a mistake which you are not inclined to forgive then sell them, for they are the servants of Allah and are not to be tormented!"

Islam made no distinction between a slave or a free man, all were treated with equality. It was this fact that attracted non-Muslim slaves to Islam in droves.
Consider some more the dynamic of manumission in Islam. It took the French until the 1780's and 1790's through their "Revolution" and "Terror" to finally decide that any slave that steps into French territory automatically becomes free; but Islam had already said, 11 centuries earlier: a free parent's newborn from a slave is free and that newborn inherits from his or her free parent.

In addition, if a non-Muslim slave accepted Islam before their masters, they would become free automatically

"Be kind to slaves as to your own children...and those that say their prayers are your brethren."

 

[Basicofislam]

:salam2: Beside that you are forgetting. Prophet Abraham AS had his son from a slave woman.

 

[somewhatinspired]

ahem

i am a man

 

[samiha]

i am a man

:salam2:

lol, i have not even read the rest of this post but i just got a smile. Jazakallahu Khayran akhi.

Don't worry it happens all the time, most of us have a track record. don't be offended.

wasalam

 

[Happy 2BA Muslim]

:salam2: Brother,

This topic was discussed before here:

Women slaves in Islam

:salam2:

 

[somewhatinspired]

let me narrow it down

intercourse with slaves not counting as adultery is what bothers me


i understand that if you were to fight in a village and kill all the men someone would have to see after the women.but i just cant imagine any woman being willingly intimate with the men that killed their husbands or fathers

but what i don't understand is how the men wouldn't have to consider the slaves as wives...like they could basically sell them or buy them and have intercourse with them as property. whereas a wife is considered a wife for life.

is this not degrading to the wives?

and considering the text... i was saying that it wouldn't be haram to go out and buy a slave(which can be done now) while married and have intercourse with her. not considering her a wife...basically she could be sold again when i was done?

i just find it sick.
it just sounds like rape.

 

[somewhatinspired]

thanks for the thread

i was typing my last response as you posted the previous thread

 

[samiha]

:salam2:

Yes, Masha'allah the link posted covers many of the topics. May Allah reward you Sir Happy...

Among them is the conditions in which female captives can be taken, the way slaves are treated, the rights of the offspring, etc.... and on and on.

May Allah increase all our knowledge, and keep us on the Straight Path.

wasalam

 

[Globalpeace]

Degrading? How?

Hi,

Having a relationship with a woman while you are providing financial, moral, emotional support and any children born thereof to be your legitimate children with full share in property and respectible members of society! Degrading? How?

I think picking up a "CHIC" on a Friday Night, sleeping with her & dumping her Saturday Mid-Day is degrading, wouldn't you think?

I think having Affairs with people while you cheat on your wife and she cheats on her husband is degrading, wouldn't you think?

I think flying overseas & messing with under-age girls is degrading, wouldn't you think?

I think taking advantage of latinos in California & Texas who work as maids & servants (since they have no choice) is degrading, wouldn't you think?

I think crossing the border into Mexico and paying 10 Dollars to a girl (barely 16) while she goes around and all your buddies have Tequila is degrading, wouldn't you think?

Lets consider "Degrading", shall we.

intercourse with slaves not counting as adultery is what bothers me


i understand that if you were to fight in a village and kill all the men someone would have to see after the women.but i just cant imagine any woman being willingly intimate with the men that killed their husbands or fathers

but what i don't understand is how the men wouldn't have to consider the slaves as wives...like they could basically sell them or buy them and have intercourse with them as property. whereas a wife is considered a wife for life.

is this not degrading to the wives?

and considering the text... i was saying that it wouldn't be haram to go out and buy a slave(which can be done now) while married and have intercourse with her. not considering her a wife...basically she could be sold again when i was done?

i just find it sick.
it just sounds like rape.

 

[zOaib]

intercourse with slaves not counting as adultery is what bothers me


i understand that if you were to fight in a village and kill all the men someone would have to see after the women.but i just cant imagine any woman being willingly intimate with the men that killed their husbands or fathers

but what i don't understand is how the men wouldn't have to consider the slaves as wives...like they could basically sell them or buy them and have intercourse with them as property. whereas a wife is considered a wife for life.

is this not degrading to the wives?

and considering the text... i was saying that it wouldn't be haram to go out and buy a slave(which can be done now) while married and have intercourse with her. not considering her a wife...basically she could be sold again when i was done?

i just find it sick.
it just sounds like rape.

Assalaam Wa Alaikum

i would like to remind the fellow brother that this issue is not an issue and is being extremely misunderstood by you , a revert sister asked this same question here where it bothered her the same as it is bothering you , i hope the following link opens up your mind to the issue Inshallah !


When Islam came, it tried to put an end to all such inhumane practices. It left no stone unturned in its quest to let women have their rights and dignity restored. This is clearly manifest in the way Islam handled the issue of slavery. Right from the start, Islam set a goal to eradicate this barbaric system. Yet, it needed to be done gradually, as the case with all bad habits that have gained ground. People never give up easily!

So, first of all it confined the issue of taking captives to the period of warfare. This is just as a situation necessitated by hostility between warring states. Then it allowed the female captives to be married by their captors. But why? Does this mean giving men a golden chance to unleash their sexual desires or to sexually brutalize those captives? No, not at all!

Here lies certain wisdom that completely escapes the mind of those Western scholars, who take this issue to launch attacks against Islam.

As we know, after the end of hostility, it’s the norm that prisoners of war be freed and exchanged through mutual agreement between the parties. Islam has made this clear in its divine texts that the captives must be freed through ransom or without ransom. Also, it’s socially understood that marrying freed female captives, would normally secure their rights, more than would be the case if they were set free without any guarantee for survival or for preserving their dignity.

Thus, Islam gave them hope of survival, trying to prevent their becoming prostitutes. In fact, they would have definitely found it hard to find suitors, even from among their free male counterparts, who’d suspect them of being ravished by their captors. Though glimmer it may be in the beginning, this hope soon turned glittering by securing them a marital home, whereby their rights and dignity would be secured.

Here comes the issue of “ma malakat aimanukum” (what your right hands possess). This is mentioned in many verses in the Qur’an, like the following:

If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess: And God hath full knowledge about your faith. Ye are one from another: Wed them with the leave of their owners, and give them their dowers, according to what is reasonable: ...

Surah 4 Verse 25

This verse confirms what I have just said; opening the door for female slaves or captives to be married by destitute Muslims who cannot afford the dowry of free women. Notice here that the Qur’an uses the expression “what your right hands.” What is the significance of this expression?

The word “right hands” here refers to women taken as prisoners of war. It is by no means an implication of concubinage, for this is totally prohibited in Islam. Nor does it refer to purchasing female slaves from market to be used to satisfy sexual urge. It’s during warfare that the right hand actually takes possession of captives, and this is what the Qur’an means. That’s point number one.

Point number two is that, the word “right hands possess” also has another significance that clearly reflects the great concern Islam has for preserving the rights of those captives. As we know, the right hand has its special merit and privileged functions that man instinctively reserve for it. Imam Kurtubi, in his commentary on this verse, says: “Allah Almighty uses the word ‘right hand’ here for it denotes great honor and respect. It suffices that it’s the one used when referring to spending, as mentioned in the hadith ‘… he who provides charity (seeking only Allah’s reward) in a way that his left hand does not know what his right hand spends …’ And it is the very hand used in making pledge of allegiance … etc.”

All this indicates that the word “what your right hand possess” has a special and glorified meaning in Islamic usage. In fact, it signifies the great care and good treatment that captives or prisoners of wars should be accorded. This is how Islam dealt with the issue from the earliest stages.

TO READ THE WHOLE ANSWER GO HERE http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/...sh-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE

 

[zOaib]

as a muslim if i were to have a girl who was alloted to me as an asset through remnants of War or a Refugee , so in the light of Quran , and according to the verse u r dwelling upon , there is in no way i can force her to marry me or copulate with me if she did not want to , but at the same time i am obligated to provide her the best , as i provide myself , If u bring the respect of Women Islam places upon you , how can u even think being a Mu'min , that one can take advantage of a girl in that manner are you not afraid of Allah who knows what your heart desires ............. i mean it completely does not make any sense to me what makes you so sick about it. Hope Allah swt open your mind in clearity cause satan is ever so there to put doubts in your heart , and if you are a new muslim then be ready for your trials in life , cause being a muslim isnt an easy thing , but i pray Inshallah you find yourself in absolute humblness and submit to Allah swt in accordance to his covenant. (ameen)

 

[zOaib]

If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess: And God hath full knowledge about your faith. Ye are one from another: Wed them with the leave of their owners, and give them their dowers, according to what is reasonable: ...

Surah 4 Verse 25

according to this verse i see no where it says , go buy a slave .............. and or any implication , also please remember the Quran was revealed according to what was goign on with the muslims , and attended there needs and gave them laws and regualtions as they faced them through the life of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) ....... and this issue was addressign the pre islamic tradition of having slaves. and how to address there rights.

the word SLAVE in english has a very degrading meaning , it is not as such in Arabic , the word in arabic ABD' simply identifies the class of a person , more like someone who works for you. like ABDULLAH translated as SERVANT of ALLAH , which means the one who works for Allah .............

and the issue of slave girls being wed and not being equal to your wife is based on person to person a Mu'min person will not make her feel any less than a wife , because in order to marry her in the first place he has to give her dowry , protection and financial support through out her life with him.

one cannot marry a slave girl and kick her our after fullfiling his lust , that is wrong , and i cannot see a Sane believer even doign that cause he is only fooling himself and not Allah swt.

 

[aseel]

assalamu alaykum,

I must say this is something that also alarmed me! But i just tell myself there must be a good reason and i am only humain and can not understand everything!
But my question is : is having slaves allowed today?

And i must say i`m still not really understanding the fairness regarding the wife the man has already. What i understand is that he can move from one bed to the other?! And why can he sleep with them without marrying them?

 

[zOaib]

1- Why did Allah Almighty make lawful for Muslim men to have sexual intercourse with the married women from the captives?

Let us look at the following Noble Verses from the Noble Quran:

"Prohibited to you (For marriage) are:- Your mothers, daughters, sisters; father's sisters, Mother's sisters; brother's daughters, sister's daughters; foster-mothers (Who gave you suckling), foster-sisters; your wives' mothers; your step-daughters under your guardianship, born of your wives to whom ye have gone in,- no prohibition if ye have not gone in;- (Those who have been) wives of your sons proceeding from your loins; and two sisters in wedlock at one and the same time, except for what is past; for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful;-

Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath God ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and God is All-knowing, All-wise. (The Noble Quran, 4:23-24)"

The definition of the term "right hands possess" is "Captives of war". Those from among the population of the tribes who fought the Muslims are considered "right hand possessions" if their tribe is defeated and captured.

We first need to understand that back 1400 years ago, when Islam was growing among the Pagan Arab Tribes, the Muslims were at constant wars with the Pagans. The Pagan tribes highly objected to the presence and the rapid growth of Islam, and they all united to fight Islam and finish it once and for all.

During those days, the Muslims did not have any government. Governments provide welfare and protection to people. Back then, and when there was no Islamic Government yet, the Muslims were their own country and were their own government. Everyone had to share in the responsibility DIRECTLY by sheltering the captives of wars at their homes.

2- The reasons behind why Allah Almighty allowed such a law:

[al-Ahzab 33:26] And He brought those of the People of the Scripture who supported them down from their strongholds, and cast panic into their hearts. Some ye slew, and ye made captive some.,

the footnote read as follows:

'The punishment toward (the Jewish tribe) Banu Quraizah who betrayed and assisted the allies was handed down by Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him to Sa'ad bin Mu'ads. The verdicts: They were sentenced to death, the women were made slaves (captives), and their lands were divided among the Muhajirins. The decision was made as such based on the laws of the Old Testament, Deuteronomy 20:13-14

'13 And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:

14 But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.

 

[Globalpeace]

W-Salam,

Taking Slaves is ONLY allowed in offensive Jihad; nder Shura and Hukm of Ameer; and since it is non-existent today, taking Slaves is NOT allowed.

This issue was discussed in great detail by Ulama in the 80's (Russian-Afghan Jihad) and as everyone knows Russian women were NOT taken as Slaves!

Neverthless it is allowed in Islam.

assalamu alaykum,

I must say this is something that also alarmed me! But i just tell myself there must be a good reason and i am only humain and can not understand everything!
But my question is : is having slaves allowed today?

And i must say i`m still not really understanding the fairness regarding the wife the man has already. What i understand is that he can move from one bed to the other?! And why can he sleep with them without marrying them?

 

[somewhatinspired]

look

i cant reply to all but i am very happy for all the responses.
many of you provided a lot of good insight and tons of links to more.

many of you sound very offended that i misunderstand the whole thing.

personally i don't think anyone should be offended.

i am a Muslim...and i know this will be understood with the right reasoning and guidance..that is why i asked the question..and that is why i asked the question to you guys.

so lets not get heated and defensive.
you don't have to defend anything.

i am a Muslim

i want to be able to defend Islam to those who do not believe and those who want us to look like we are an evil people....and trust me we have a lot of proving to do because the majority of Americans.. don't trust Islam.

we are not entirely to blame but i think we need to help them understand us.

so please gently help me understand this. because i see things from both sides.

and please realize this is something i grew up not even having to think about.

i grew up in the west of the united states, in a very liberal city(boulder, Colorado) and for me to even conceptualize four wives is very hard. none the less intercourse with slaves. let alone slaves at all.

on the other hand i grew up having girlfriends and my father encouraged it.
i was told it was healthy.
i don't think my father is a bad person or evil in anyway. nor do i think i was a bad person or evil because of it. just very misguided.

thank god i am now a Muslim,

think about how hard it is for people to shed the negative parts of their culture in order to please allah.

whether it be Pakistani/Indian or Persian, kazak,indonesian, or whatever.

its even harder to come from a culture that doesn't even know what Islam is.

my faith is true but there are just some barriers i haven't been able to overcome. and i am only trying to educate myself

all i am saying is please don't try to make me contradict myself

it isn't fair, and i know where your going

some of you act as if i should know what you tell me before i hear it.
but i mentioned initially that the only resources i found were people stating the negative things about it and people reluctantly defending it.

thanks again

i look forward to being a part of your community

 

[Noor to shine]

Islam for better world:

:salam2:
The first thing Islam does is to make better human beings ....people who have piety and feel that Allah swt is watching .Harming any human or animal or even plant is a big sin in Islam ....This what the prophet :saw2: planted in the hearts of early muslems ...and this is how a msulem should be a human with a high moralites who fear the day of account and think of the feelings of others . At the same time Islam is a practical way ....Islam deals with the different circumstances and put solutions to every case . At the time when Islam started slavery was a common practice and slaves every where the first thing Islam did is to raise slaves to high postion by being salves of Allah first ...then stopped alll kind of new slavery only by one way: wars since this was the way things going on in wars ......it is unfair the muslems being taken slaves and their enemies are freed .....Then what will be the situation of those females from the enemy who lost their families in wars ....They have to be susstained and cared for .....Islam treats all matters with wisdom ......those females have their needs to be fullfilled .....so to be( like a wife ) to her master ....treated well , cared for is better than left in the street .....still Islam opens the gates widly for freeing slaves and encourge muslems to do so seeking the pleausre of Allah swt.

We should read history of slavery at that time to have more understanding.

 

[dna1987]

What happens if the enemy attack Muslims, somehow win (eg. US in Iraq) and take Muslim women as captives?

Can we ask for them back?