Sister arrested for niqab

[hayat84]

I really felt touched by those images and the screams of the woman still run in my mind.how ashameful!!!!I pray for a better future in this world of criminals.they won't put our Ummah in crise!!!!!I suppose that after seeing that video,many other women will wear niqab just as sign of challenge and as sign that nobody can submit us to their will.do you image how many places the prison need,if 1000 or more niqabed women would march in front of the police.the "jihad" has begun.we'll struggle,we'll fall to the ground but we'll never surrender to the will of the human law,because Allah is the only One Who can protect us.Did you remember how many years the prophet Yusuf(AS)spent as innocent in the prison?maybe many niqabed women will have the same problem,but I firmly invite them not to put off their niqab.this is what I want to do in sh Allah,because those facts give me the strenght to come out and react.subhanallah,the police abused of its power over that woman......my anger lifts up,but Ramadhan is a sacred month and the war is forbidden.Ya Rabbi,a'tina Fi Dunyia Hasant wa fi l Akhirati Hasanat.....:tti_sister:

 

[esperanza]

Assalaam walaikum,

Slow down. Why do you sisters get so defensive. We really need to have a discussion on the emotionalism. Perhaps after Ramadan.


Let us start at the beginning.

1. Dumb law in France. No niqab.
2. Woman wore niqab. Got arrested.

My response: When you defy a law you must be prepared for the consequences. Let me simply this. I like this one. Posted speed limit 75 mph. You drive 76 mph. You will get a ticket. You are going over the speed limit.

Unless you are ready to pay the ticket you do not speed. It is the same with wearing a niqab. The country passed the law. If you break the law do not complain. You have made a choice to break the law.

My suggestion is simple. Muslim women in France need to mobilize. They need to become educated in French law. They need to educate and teach women who wear niqab how to go about and change the law. It will take time. It will take hard work.

Additionally, I questioned the socio-economic levels of Muslim women who wear niqab in France. That would answer where to start the educational process. Would the husbands of these women even allow the women to go to rallies? Who would provide the fund-raising.

I, as usual, was being proactive.

Now..as to the matter of niqab being mandatory. I have never read in the Quran that it is a prerequisite for attaining heaven.

at the risk of entering an argument,,,

i have to agree..
1. I have not yet been presented wiht overwhelming evidence that niqab is mandatory

2. when you live in the laws of a country you have to basically obey them,,,,
would any of you like to be without the freedom of driving..idoubt very much... in the country where i live this is law for women ,,,,i have to obey,,,,,,
even there is nothing to say it is unislamic

3. yes france and other europpean countires are wrong to target muslims for dress or practise,,, but look around at some muslim countries,,,first,,, which do worse,,,maybe we should work on those countries first

 

[esperanza]

and 4th point...sorry to have to say this,,,,but this matter was talked about recently..about whether muslims should migrate to muslim countries,,,so maybe people should consider living in countries where niqab is welcome...like many revert sisters i have noticed have gone to muslim countries,,,often alone just to lead better islamic life..so not impossible

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

It is not risking an argument.

We would be better helping our sisters in France by mere education. It is up to the imams and social organizations to help sisters should they wish to wear niqab.

When the economy of a nations is spiraling downward they have to have a scapegoat.

But, we have to be objective. If we lose our sense of objectivity we do no favors to anyone. To become emotional over something we have no power to change is a waste of time and energy.

And I question this: the same sisters who are jumping on my logic would not live in France.

Anyhow...chill out sisters...keep it simple...I will check in later to see the response to the question I asked: Where in the Quran does it state that niqab is a prerequisite to attaining junnath.

 

[hayat84]

at the risk of entering an argument,,,

i have to agree..
1. I have not yet been presented wiht overwhelming evidence that niqab is mandatory

2. when you live in the laws of a country you have to basically obey them,,,,
would any of you like to be without the freedom of driving..idoubt very much... in the country where i live this is law for women ,,,,i have to obey,,,,,,
even there is nothing to say it is unislamic

3. yes france and other europpean countires are wrong to target muslims for dress or practise,,, but look around at some muslim countries,,,first,,, which do worse,,,maybe we should work on those countries first

:salam2:sister,did you see how many niqabed women go everyday to perform 'Umra??????it's amazing!!!!!by day or by night I see them walking towards the Masjid haram.....I don't agree because if one day a stupid politician will change the laws,maybe Hijab too will become illegal and we will be obliged to wear like the Kuffar.yes,Niqab is not obligatory,but as I many times said,why homosexuals can get married or change their identity card,while muslim women can't choose if to wear Niqab or not?????I suppose that Illuminati have already thought about this matter by making us weaker and worried about our lives.it's also true that if somebody comes in an islamic country wearing unpudically,risks a fine or the jail.
we are so little in this planet,but the egoism of those people is so high that they think that "France is of the French and everybody must follow its laws".Allahu Akbar....do not surrender!the law has been created to give to people a limit,but the stupid laws like the banning of Niqab hasn't been made to give any limits to terrorism:this is the fear for Islam from the ignorants who are taking awareness that really Islam is overcoming and they are trying to put the weaker part down(the Niqabed women).but they are martyres fi Sabil Lillah.

 

[complex_man]

Assalaam walaikum,

Slow down. Why do you sisters get so defensive. We really need to have a discussion on the emotionalism. Perhaps after Ramadan.


Let us start at the beginning.

1. Dumb law in France. No niqab.
2. Woman wore niqab. Got arrested.

My response: When you defy a law you must be prepared for the consequences. Let me simply this. I like this one. Posted speed limit 75 mph. You drive 76 mph. You will get a ticket. You are going over the speed limit.

Unless you are ready to pay the ticket you do not speed. It is the same with wearing a niqab. The country passed the law. If you break the law do not complain. You have made a choice to break the law.

My suggestion is simple. Muslim women in France need to mobilize. They need to become educated in French law. They need to educate and teach women who wear niqab how to go about and change the law. It will take time. It will take hard work.

Additionally, I questioned the socio-economic levels of Muslim women who wear niqab in France. That would answer where to start the educational process. Would the husbands of these women even allow the women to go to rallies? Who would provide the fund-raising.

I, as usual, was being proactive.

Now..as to the matter of niqab being mandatory. I have never read in the Quran that it is a prerequisite for attaining heaven.

Very good post sister. people get emotional and only think within the circle. following islam doesnt mean that we follow whatever we read. we have minds and Allah has given us minds to think , to analyse and to apply.times have changed. circumstances have changes. the society has progressed so much. the reason for it (niqab) in Europe doesn't apply as many scholars agree where as it is still applicable in Pakistan as we are morally corrupt nation and women in Pakistan have greater danger as compared to European countries.
to apply some laws of islam . we have to see the REASON why they were ordered and what RESULT was expected from them. only then we can correctly apply islam in these times also. we need to think objectively. islam is not blind following. it has reason and rationalism. use it.

I may not do what many salaf did (as those times,requirements,objectives were different). now we must analyse the orders considering the times, requirements and society as a whole.

i hope you all understand my point of view.

 

[MohammedMaksudul]

Very good post sister. people get emotional and only think within the circle. following islam doesnt mean that we follow whatever we read. we have minds and Allah has given us minds to think , to analyse and to apply.times have changed. circumstances have changes. the society has progressed so much. the reason for it (niqab) in Europe doesn't apply as many scholars agree where as it is still applicable in Pakistan as we are morally corrupt nation and women in Pakistan have greater danger as compared to European countries.
to apply some laws of islam . we have to see the REASON why they were ordered and what RESULT was expected from them. only then we can correctly apply islam in these times also. we need to think objectively. islam is not blind following. it has reason and rationalism. use it.

I may not do what many salaf did (as those times,requirements,objectives were different). now we must analyse the orders considering the times, requirements and society as a whole.

i hope you all understand my point of view.

This is indeed wrong to thing that the situation in Europe is such that it is okay to not wear niqab. How can you justify your claim? European countries have the most number of rapes. It is just not logical to state that. Of course you think objectively but wearing the niqaab has many evidences and are too overpowering. Scholars who say that hijaab is mandatory and not niqaab, even they agree that it is always the better thing to do.

As for sisters in France, who ever did niqaab should try to make hijra if possible. Otherwise Allah does not hold accountable those who are forced.

 

[al-fajr]

Assalamu'alaykum wa rahmatullaah

the reason for it (niqab) in Europe doesn't apply as many scholars agree where as it is still applicable in Pakistan as we are morally corrupt nation and women in Pakistan have greater danger as compared to European countries.

Ridiculous. The west is totally morally corrupt and you have exposed your lack of exposure to the west through making such a laughable statement.

Where in the Quran does it state that niqab is a prerequisite to attaining junnath.

Why are you jumping from pillar to post? Rewind: You stated it was cultural and that has since, been corrected.

Clearly you have not read the link I posted and the evidences derived for both opinions towards niqaab used both Qur'aan and Sunnah, these are the two ingredients used in Islaamic Scholarship to derive valid opinions. You cannot just look for an Ayaah of the Qur'aan for most topics, you already know this, Aapa.

1. I have not yet been presented wiht overwhelming evidence that niqab is mandatory

2. when you live in the laws of a country you have to basically obey them,,,,
would any of you like to be without the freedom of driving..idoubt very much... in the country where i live this is law for women ,,,,i have to obey,,,,,,
even there is nothing to say it is unislamic

3. yes france and other europpean countires are wrong to target muslims for dress or practise,,, but look around at some muslim countries,,,first,,, which do worse,,,maybe we should work on those countries first

1) See my second post in this thread where I posted the link - read it.
2) Driving is not comparable to the niqaab, driving is not considered by any muslim or any school of thought or any Scholar to be a command from Allaah which has to be obeyed. Please quit comparing niqaab to driving, or speeding or any other breach of the law as if it could have been avoided just as easily as those things could be.
3) You contradict your own self, you say in your 4th point that Muslims should go to places where they can practise and then you claim in point number 3 that those same countries 'do worse' ..?

This is getting silly.

As much as I feel your anger, it is their country and their law. Please be fair sometimes. A friend of mine arrived to Iran (i forgot the name of the place she arrived but it is close to Dubai) and she was told to "dress appropriately" which is very nice of the officials to do so. The girl is not Muslim hence the dress code wasn't really applicable to her. But she has to do it. It is the laws, its their land and they live by it. She can't really cross the line and say "I will not wear this kind of dress for it doesn't go with my norms."

Well this is where we see the sheer hypocrisy of the west. They are the ones who claim freedom of choice, expression and religion, freedom of women to dress as they please, and yet they specifically target and ban the Muslim womans dress code? Muslims have every right to hold the west accountable for the claims they make, otherwise they should just come clean and say they don't believe in any freedom for Muslims and Muslims should not be given the same rights as people of other faiths.

As for the East? Well they never ever claimed there was freedom to do anything and everything (not literally, obviously) under their laws in the name of freedom the first place, so you yourself are holding them accountable for things they do not even claim, so please be fair yourself, in future.

Wa-salaam

 

[Aisya al-Humaira]

Slow down. Why do you sisters get so defensive. We really need to have a discussion on the emotionalism. Perhaps after Ramadan.

Additionally, I questioned the socio-economic levels of Muslim women who wear niqab in France. That would answer where to start the educational process. Would the husbands of these women even allow the women to go to rallies? Who would provide the fund-raising.

I, as usual, was being proactive.

Now..as to the matter of niqab being mandatory. I have never read in the Quran that it is a prerequisite for attaining heaven.

Wa'alaaykummussalaam wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

I start my post with asking Forgiveness. . . Forgiveness from Allaah The Al-Mighty that May he grant us with wisdom, gentleness and refrain us from hurting our brothers and sisters in faith especially with means of words that are unnecessary and inappropriate. Astaghfirullahal atheem.

Respected Sister, many at a time, when we are discussing on issues about the Muslims and we are trying to correct that which is NOT within the fold of Islaam but widely practice among the Muslims, we are said to be pointing out to others and being holier than thou. We are told not to engage in such discussion and continue it after Ramadhaan. [That's a good reminder, Mashaa Allaah]

However, why do I see that your actions are contradicting with your words? Why are there threads that have become into arguments and debating because of you using your reasoning, logic and experiences; sometimes degrading the Ulamaa' when the reasoning behind some ruling outweighs our mind and the BEST approach at that time is to *hear* and *obey* as how we are taught from the Quran?

Allaah didn't *specifically* pointed out that niqaab is a pre-requisite to attain heaven, but we should bear in mind that among the greatest women; women who lived at the times of the Prophet Muhammad wore niqaab. Though some Ulamaa' said it to not be mandatory but rather a good sunnah, the sisters wearing niqaab are trying their best to please Allaah by following the examples of among the greatest woman who ever lived, so where are the rights to question about these sisters? Having said that, being defensive in this issue is understabdable especially when these sisters are painted with the wrong picture, as if saying that they are being extreme in the deen.

The rulings of niqaab is not the main issue to be discussed here, but rather the uses of words. In a separate thread, it was because the uses of your words that could have hurt others feelings [became offensive]. In this particular thread, it is the uses of words that actually caused fire to ignite between the members of the threads. The fire is NOT because of emotionalism but because [writing again what I've wrote]; the sisters are painted with the wrong picture.

I am not writing this just to stir anymore debates or add to the number of posts for this thread, but hoping deeply that arguments that started due to using the limited reasoning of the mind do not continue any further; not in this blessed month of Ramadhaan.

Astaghfirullahal atheem. Astaghfirullahal atheem. Astaghfirullahal atheem.

Wa'alaaykummusalaam wa rahmatullah.