Sunni marrying Shia (mature responses only, plz)

Discussion in 'TurnToIslam Lounge !' started by Gupta, Feb 25, 2013.

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  1. ditta
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    ditta Alhamdu'Lillaah Staff Member

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    Wa-alaykum-us-salaam,

    In reference to the actual issue, I am not a person of knowledge so do not want to appear as giving out rulings but the Qur'an says:

    "And do not marry Al-Mushrikaat (idolatresses) till they believe (worship Allah Alone)"

    (2: 221)

    So if a person was considering marrying a Shi'ah, and their belief went beyond the above ayah, then I am sure you can determine the rest. I don't fully know the different types of Shi'ah, but similarly to the actual People of the Book, I wonder if there are any Shi'ah's left who only preferred Ali (radiyAllahu anh) as the third caliph instead of Uthman (radiyAllahu anh) instead of what the Shi'ah (Rafidi in this instance from my understanding) belief has developed into. I am guessing here but I assume this where the ruling which forbids such a marriage stems from because of incompatibility in core belief.

    The other point regarding the basis/authority of scholarly rulings, then, after the Qur'an and Sunnah, we refer to the people of knowledge, being the scholars but I don't think (from my limited knowledge) this is an issue where you can say there is scholarly dispute or that it is the opinion of one scholar only, because the Qur'an clearly states, do not marry idolatresses, and like I alluded to previously, I guess, this is where the ruling stemmed from.
  2. Aapa
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    Aapa Mirajmom

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    Assalaam alaikum,

    And yet Brother,


    A fatawa is not a legal ruling. And that is the truth of the matter. It is opined from collective knowledge on a specific issue.
  3. ditta
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    ditta Alhamdu'Lillaah Staff Member

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    Wa-alaykum-us-salaam,

    The issue at hand in this thread I think is clear as the Qur'an clearly states not to marry a mushrik, so if one is considering such a marriage then that is upon them. Similarly to how someone might delude himself into marrying someone of the People of the Book but the person's belief is completely at odds with a fundamental aspect of Islamic creed.

    Where should one refer to if there is an issue that is not mentioned in the Qur'an, Sunnah, by the Companions, Tabi'oon, those after them, and the righteous scholars? Does this not create a pick and choose situation? This issue, from my understanding is not something that is determined by the ruling of a scholar rather it is something that has been further clarified, like alcohol or gambling being haraam.
  4. Aapa
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    Aapa Mirajmom

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    Assalaam alaikum,

    Brother,

    But, the difference is a fatawa is a response of what is better. Gambling is prohibited in the Quran as is alcohol. That is directly from the Quran.

    The nature of a fatawa is a ruling. There is no absolute in a fatawa. None.

    A fatawa is like a coat to protect you from the cold. No-one can make you wear one.

    Let us remember it is incorrect to make forbidden that which is not.

    I have not read anything in Islam that says I must abide by the rules of a fatawa or I am going to hell-fire. And the greatest and humblest of our scholars warn us if they write a letter in error they wish us to discard their words.

    Like for like brother. Young people have no clue what that means. If they took the time to think about what is it that you wish in partner we would all be hidden in our rooms, scared to come out. That is why marriage is encouraged. We think after the fact.
  5. um muhammad al-mahdi
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    um muhammad al-mahdi لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله Staff Member

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    Assalamu Alaykum

    So do you follow your logic and desires?


    The Prophet sallallâhu ’alayhi wa sallam said: “Indeed, the Scholars are the inheritors of the Prophets and indeed the Prophets do not leave behind them the dînâr or the dirham as inheritance, they leave only knowledge behind as inheritance. So whosoever acquires it, acquires a huge fortune.”

    Related by Abû Dâwûd (no.3641), and Ibn Majah (no.223), from Abûd-Darda radiallâhu ’anhu. It was authenticated by Shaykh al-Albânî in his checking to Sharhus-Sunnah (1/276).
  6. tic_tac_toe
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    tic_tac_toe Junior Member

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    :salam2: Aapa,

    That's because frankly you don't know what you are talking about!

    4_59.png

    O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is the best [way] and best in result. (4:59)

    So who are those in Authority? Imam Tabari (RA) writes in his Tafseer:

    1) These are Ameers appointed upon Muslims

    2) These are Rulers upon Muslims:

    3) These are people of knowledge amongst Muslims

    4) These are people of knowledge and Fuqaha amongst Muslims

    5) These are companions of Prophet Muhammad :saw:

    All these 5 or so opinions mean the same thing which is basically we obey those above us as long as they don't contradict the words of :Allah: & Prophet Muhammad :saw:

    ذِكْر مَنْ قَالَ ذَلِكَ : 7790 - حَدَّثَنِي أَبُو السَّائِب سَلْم بْن جُنَادَة , قَالَ : ثنا أَبُو مُعَاوِيَة , عَنْ الْأَعْمَش , عَنْ أَبِي صَالِح , عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَة فِي قَوْله : { أَطِيعُوا اللَّه وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُول وَأُولِي الْأَمْر مِنْكُمْ } قَالَ : هُمْ الْأُمَرَاء . 7791 - حَدَّثَنَا الْحَسَن بْن الصَّبَاح الْبَزَّار , قَالَ : ثنا حَجَّاج بْن مُحَمَّد , عَنْ اِبْن جُرَيْج , قَالَ : أَخْبَرَنِي يَعْلَى بْن مُسْلِم , عَنْ سَعِيد بْن جُبَيْر , عَنْ اِبْن عَبَّاس , أَنَّهُ قَالَ : { يَا أَيّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَطِيعُوا اللَّه وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُول وَأُولِي الْأَمْر مِنْكُمْ } نَزَلَتْ فِي رَجُل بَعَثَهُ النَّبِيّ صَلَّى اللَّه عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ عَلَى سَرِيَّة . * - حَدَّثَنَا الْقَاسِم , قَالَ : ثنا الْحُسَيْن , قَالَ : ثني حَجَّاج , عَنْ اِبْن جُرَيْج , عَنْ عُبَيْد اللَّه بْن مُسْلِم بْن هُرْمُز , عَنْ سَعِيد بْن جُبَيْر , عَنْ اِبْن عَبَّاس : أَنَّ هَذِهِ الْآيَة نَزَلَتْ فِي عَبْد اللَّه بْن حُذَافَة بْن قَيْس السَّهْمِيّ إِذْ بَعَثَهُ النَّبِيّ صَلَّى اللَّه عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ فِي السَّرِيَّة . 7792 - حَدَّثَنَا اِبْن حُمَيْد , قَالَ : ثنا حَكَّام , عَنْ عَنْبَسَة , عَنْ لَيْث , قَالَ : سَأَلَ مَسْلَمَة مَيْمُون بْن مِهْرَان , عَنْ قَوْله : { أَطِيعُوا اللَّه وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُول وَأُولِي الْأَمْر مِنْكُمْ } قَالَ : أَصْحَاب السَّرَايَا عَلَى عَهْد النَّبِيّ صَلَّى اللَّه عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ . 7793 - حَدَّثَنِي يُونُس , قَالَ : أَخْبَرَنَا اِبْن وَهْب , قَالَ : قَالَ اِبْن زَيْد فِي قَوْله : { يَا أَيّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَطِيعُوا اللَّه وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُول وَأُولِي الْأَمْر مِنْكُمْ } قَالَ : قَالَ أَبِي : هُمْ السَّلَاطِين . قَالَ : وَقَالَ اِبْن زَيْد فِي قَوْله : { وَأُولِي الْأَمْر مِنْكُمْ } قَالَ أَبِي : قَالَ رَسُول اللَّه صَلَّى اللَّه عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ : " الطَّاعَة الطَّاعَة ! وَفِي الطَّاعَة بَلَاء " . وَقَالَ : " وَلَوْ شَاءَ اللَّه لَجَعَلَ الْأَمْر فِي الْأَنْبِيَاء " يَعْنِي : لَقَدْ جَعَلَ إِلَيْهِمْ وَالْأَنْبِيَاء مَعَهُمْ , أَلَا تَرَى حِين حَكَمُوا فِي قَتْل يَحْيَى بْن زَكَرِيَّا ؟ . 7794 - حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّد بْن الْحُسَيْن , قَالَ : ثنا أَحْمَد بْن مُفَضَّل , ثنا أَسْبَاط , عَنْ السُّدِّيّ : { أَطِيعُوا اللَّه وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُول وَأُولِي الْأَمْر مِنْكُمْ } قَالَ : بَعَثَ رَسُول اللَّه صَلَّى اللَّه عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ سَرِيَّة عَلَيْهَا خَالِد بْن الْوَلِيد , وَفِيهَا عَمَّار بْن يَاسِر , فَسَارُوا قِبَل الْقَوْم الَّذِينَ يُرِيدُونَ , فَلَمَّا بَلَغُوا قَرِيبًا مِنْهُمْ عَرَّسُوا , وَأَتَاهُمْ ذُو الْعَيْنَتَيْنِ , فَأَخْبَرَهُمْ فَأَصْبَحُوا وَقَدْ هَرَبُوا غَيْر رَجُل أَمَرَ أَهْله , فَجَمَعُوا مَتَاعهمْ . ثُمَّ أَقْبَلَ يَمْشِي فِي ظُلْمَة اللَّيْل , حَتَّى أَتَى عَسْكَر خَالِد , فَسَأَلَ عَنْ عَمَّار بْن يَاسِر فَأَتَاهُ , فَقَالَ : يَا أَبَا الْيَقْظَان , إِنِّي قَدْ أَسْلَمْت وَشَهِدْت أَنْ لَا إِلَه إِلَّا اللَّه وَأَنَّ مُحَمَّدًا عَبْده وَرَسُوله , وَإِنَّ قَوْمِي لَمَّا سَمِعُوا بِكُمْ هَرَبُوا , وَإِنِّي بَقِيت فَهَلْ إِسْلَامِي نَافِعِي غَدًا وَإِلَّا هَرَبْت ؟ قَالَ عَمَّار : بَلْ هُوَ يَنْفَعك , فَأَقِمْ ! فَأَقَامَ . فَلَمَّا أَصْبَحُوا أَغَارَ خَالِد , فَلَمْ يَجِد أَحَدًا غَيْر الرَّجُل , فَأَخَذَهُ وَأَخَذَ مَاله , فَبَلَغَ عَمَّارًا الْخَبَر , فَأَتَى خَالِدًا فَقَالَ : خَلِّ عَنْ الرَّجُل فَإِنَّهُ قَدْ أَسْلَمَ , وَهُوَ فِي أَمَان مِنِّي ! فَقَالَ خَالِد : وَفِيمَ أَنْتَ تُجِير ؟ فَاسْتَبَّا وَارْتَفَعَا إِلَى النَّبِيّ صَلَّى اللَّه عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ , فَأَجَازَ أَمَان عَمَّار وَنَهَاهُ أَنْ يُجِير الثَّانِيَة عَلَى أَمِير . فَاسْتَبَّا عِنْد رَسُول اللَّه صَلَّى اللَّه عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ , فَقَالَ خَالِد : يَا رَسُول اللَّه أَتَتْرُكُ هَذَا الْعَبْد الْأَجْدَع يَسُبّنِي ؟ فَقَالَ رَسُول اللَّه صَلَّى اللَّه عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ : " يَا خَالِد لَا تَسُبّ عَمَّارًا , فَإِنَّهُ مَنْ سَبَّ عَمَّارًا سَبَّهُ اللَّه , وَمَنْ أَبْغَضَ عَمَّارًا أَبْغَضَهُ اللَّه , وَمَنْ لَعَنَ عَمَّارًا لَعَنَهُ اللَّه " . فَغَضِبَ عَمَّار , فَقَامَ فَتَبِعَهُ خَالِد حَتَّى أَخَذَ بِثَوْبِهِ فَاعْتَذَرَ إِلَيْهِ , فَرَضِيَ عَنْهُ , فَأَنْزَلَ اللَّه تَعَالَى قَوْله : { أَطِيعُوا اللَّه وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُول وَأُولِي الْأَمْر مِنْكُمْ } وَقَالَ آخَرُونَ : هُمْ أَهْل الْعِلْم وَالْفِقْه . ذِكْر مَنْ قَالَ ذَلِكَ : 7795 - حَدَّثَنِي سُفْيَان بْن وَكِيع , قَالَ : ثنا أَبِي , عَنْ عَلِيّ بْن صَالِح , عَنْ عَبْد اللَّه بْن مُحَمَّد بْن عُقَيْل , عَنْ جَابِر بْن عَبْد اللَّه . .. قَالَ : ثنا جَابِر بْن نُوح , عَنْ الْأَعْمَش , عَنْ مُجَاهِد , فِي قَوْله : { أَطِيعُوا اللَّه وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُول وَأُولِي الْأَمْر مِنْكُمْ } قَالَ : أُولِي الْفِقْه مِنْكُمْ . * - حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو كُرَيْب , قَالَ : ثنا اِبْن إِدْرِيس , قَالَ : أَخْبَرَنَا لَيْث , عَنْ مُجَاهِد , فِي قَوْله : { أَطِيعُوا اللَّه وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُول وَأُولِي الْأَمْر مِنْكُمْ } قَالَ : أُولِي الْفِقْه وَالْعِلْم . 7796 - حَدَّثَنِي مُحَمَّد بْن عَمْرو , قَالَ : ثنا أَبُو عَاصِم , عَنْ عِيسَى , عَنْ اِبْن أَبِي نَجِيح : { وَأُولِي الْأَمْر مِنْكُمْ } قَالَ : أُولِي الْفِقْه فِي الدِّين وَالْعَقْل . * - حَدَّثَنِي الْمُثَنَّى , قَالَ : ثنا أَبُو حُذَيْفَة , قَالَ : ثنا شِبْل , عَنْ اِبْن أَبِي نَجِيح , عَنْ مُجَاهِد , مِثْله . 7797 - حَدَّثَنِي الْمُثَنَّى , قَالَ : ثنا عَبْد اللَّه بْن صَالِح , قَالَ : ثني مُعَاوِيَة بْن صَالِح , عَنْ عَلِيّ بْن أَبِي طَلْحَة , عَنْ اِبْن عَبَّاس , قَوْله : { أَطِيعُوا اللَّه وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُول وَأُولِي الْأَمْر مِنْكُمْ } يَعْنِي : أَهْل الْفِقْه وَالدِّين . * - حَدَّثَنِي أَحْمَد بْن حَازِم , قَالَ : ثنا أَبُو نُعَيْم , قَالَ : ثنا سُفْيَان , عَنْ حُصَيْن , عَنْ مُجَاهِد : { وَأُولِي الْأَمْر مِنْكُمْ } قَالَ : أَهْل الْعِلْم . 7798 - حَدَّثَنِي يَعْقُوب بْن إِبْرَاهِيم , قَالَ : ثنا هُشَيْم , قَالَ : أَخْبَرَنَا عَبْد الْمَلِك , عَنْ عَطَاء بْن السَّائِب فِي قَوْله : { أَطِيعُوا اللَّه وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُول وَأُولِي الْأَمْر مِنْكُمْ } قَالَ : أُولِي الْعِلْم وَالْفِقْه . * - حَدَّثَنِي الْمُثَنَّى , قَالَ : ثنا عَمْرو بْن عَوْن , قَالَ : ثنا هُشَيْم , عَنْ عَبْد الْمَلِك , عَنْ عَطَاء : { وَأُولِي الْأَمْر مِنْكُمْ } قَالَ : الْفُقَهَاء وَالْعُلَمَاء . 7799 - حَدَّثَنَا الْحَسَن بْن يَحْيَى , قَالَ : أَخْبَرَنَا عَبْد الرَّزَّاق , قَالَ : أَخْبَرَنَا مَعْمَر , عَنْ الْحَسَن , فِي قَوْله : { وَأُولِي الْأَمْر مِنْكُمْ } قَالَ : هُمْ الْعُلَمَاء . 7800 - قَالَ : وَأَخْبَرَنَا عَبْد الرَّزَّاق , عَنْ الثَّوْرِيّ , عَنْ اِبْن أَبِي نَجِيح , عَنْ مُجَاهِد قَوْله : { وَأُولِي الْأَمْر مِنْكُمْ } قَالَ : هُمْ أَهْل الْفِقْه وَالْعِلْم . 7801 - حَدَّثَنِي الْمُثَنَّى , قَالَ : ثنا إِسْحَاق , قَالَ : ثنا اِبْن أَبِي جَعْفَر , عَنْ أَبِيهِ , عَنْ الرَّبِيع , عَنْ أَبِي الْعَالِيَة فِي قَوْله : { وَأُولِي الْأَمْر مِنْكُمْ } قَالَ : هُمْ أَهْل الْعِلْم , أَلَا تَرَى أَنَّهُ يَقُول : { وَلَوْ رَدُّوهُ إِلَى الرَّسُول وَإِلَى أُولِي الْأَمْر مِنْهُمْ لَعَلِمَهُ الَّذِينَ يَسْتَنْبِطُونَهُ مِنْهُمْ } ؟ 4 83 . وَقَالَ آخَرُونَ : هُمْ أَصْحَاب مُحَمَّد صَلَّى اللَّه عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ . ذِكْر مَنْ قَالَ ذَلِكَ : 7802 - حَدَّثَنِي يَعْقُوب بْن إِبْرَاهِيم , قَالَ : ثنا اِبْن عُلَيَّة , قَالَ : ثنا اِبْن أَبِي نَجِيح , عَنْ مُجَاهِد , فِي قَوْله : { أَطِيعُوا اللَّه وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُول وَأُولِي الْأَمْر مِنْكُمْ } قَالَ : كَانَ مُجَاهِد يَقُول : أَصْحَاب مُحَمَّد . قَالَ : وَرُبَّمَا قَالَ : أُولِي الْفَضْل وَالْفِقْه وَدِين اللَّه . وَقَالَ آخَرُونَ : هُمْ أَبُو بَكْر وَعُمَر رَضِيَ اللَّه عَنْهُمَا ذِكْر مَنْ قَالَ ذَلِكَ : 7803 - حَدَّثَنَا أَحْمَد بْن عَمْرو الْبَصْرِيّ , قَالَ : ثنا حَفْص بْن عُمَر الْعَدَنِيّ , قَالَ : ثنا الْحَكَم بْن أَبَان , عَنْ عِكْرِمَة : { أَطِيعُوا اللَّه وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُول وَأُولِي الْأَمْر مِنْكُمْ } قَالَ : أَبُو بَكْر وَعُمَر . وَأَوْلَى الْأَقْوَال فِي ذَلِكَ بِالصَّوَابِ قَوْل مَنْ قَالَ : هُمْ الْأُمَرَاء وَالْوُلَاة , لِصِحَّةِ الْأَخْبَار عَنْ رَسُول اللَّه صَلَّى اللَّه عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ بِالْأَمْرِ بِطَاعَةِ الْأَئِمَّة وَالْوُلَاة فِيمَا كَانَ طَاعَة وَلِلْمُسْلِمِينَ مَصْلَحَة . كَاَلَّذِي : 7804 - حَدَّثَنِي عَلِيّ بْن مُسْلِم الطُّوسِيّ قَالَ : ثنا اِبْن أَبِي فُدَيْك , قَالَ : ثني عَبْد اللَّه بْن مُحَمَّد بْن عُرْوَة , عَنْ هِشَام بْن عُرْوَة , عَنْ أَبِي صَالِح السَّمَّان , عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَة , أَنَّ النَّبِيّ صَلَّى اللَّه عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ : " سَيَلِيكُمْ بَعْدِي وُلَاة , فَيَلِيكُمْ الْبَرّ بِبِرِّهِ وَالْفَاجِر بِفُجُورِهِ , فَاسْمَعُوا لَهُمْ وَأَطِيعُوا فِي كُلّ مَا وَافَقَ الْحَقّ , وَصَلُّوا وَرَاءَهُمْ فَإِنْ أَحْسَنُوا فَلَكُمْ وَلَهُمْ , وَإِنْ أَسَاءُوا فَلَكُمْ وَعَلَيْهِمْ " . 7805 - حَدَّثَنَا اِبْن الْمُثَنَّى , قَالَ : ثنا يَحْيَى عَنْ عُبَيْد اللَّه , قَالَ : أَخْبَرَنِي نَافِع , عَنْ عَبْد اللَّه , عَنْ النَّبِيّ صَلَّى اللَّه عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ , قَالَ : " عَلَى الْمَرْء الْمُسْلِم الطَّاعَة فِيمَا أَحَبَّ وَكَرِهَ إِلَّا أَنْ يُؤْمَر بِمَعْصِيَةٍ فَمَنْ أُمِرَ بِمَعْصِيَةٍ فَلَا طَاعَة " . * - حَدَّثَنِي اِبْن الْمُثَنَّى , قَالَ : ثني خَالِد عَنْ عُبَيْد اللَّه , عَنْ نَافِع , عَنْ اِبْن عُمَر , عَنْ النَّبِيّ صَلَّى اللَّه عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ , نَحْوه . فَإِذَا كَانَ مَعْلُومًا أَنَّهُ لَا طَاعَة وَاجِبَة لِأَحَدٍ غَيْر اللَّه أَوْ رَسُوله أَوْ إِمَام عَادِل , وَكَانَ اللَّه قَدْ أَمَرَ بِقَوْلِهِ : { أَطِيعُوا اللَّه وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُول وَأُولِي الْأَمْر مِنْكُمْ } بِطَاعَةِ ذَوِي أَمْرنَا , كَانَ مَعْلُومًا أَنَّ الَّذِينَ أَمَرَ بِطَاعَتِهِمْ تَعَالَى ذِكْره مِنْ ذَوِي أَمْرنَا هُمْ الْأَئِمَّة وَمَنْ وَلَّاهُ الْمُسْلِمُونَ دُون غَيْرهمْ مِنْ النَّاس , وَإِنْ كَانَ فَرْضًا الْقَبُول مِنْ كُلّ مَنْ أَمَرَ بِتَرْكِ مَعْصِيَة اللَّه , وَدَعَا إِلَى طَاعَة اللَّه , وَأَنَّهُ لَا طَاعَة تَجِب لِأَحَدٍ فِيمَا أَمَرَ وَنَهَى فِيمَا لَمْ تَقُمْ حُجَّة وُجُوبه إِلَّا لِلْأَئِمَّةِ الَّذِينَ أَلْزَمَ اللَّه عِبَاده طَاعَتهمْ فِيمَا أَمَرُوا بِهِ رَعِيَّتهمْ مِمَّا هُوَ مَصْلَحَة لِعَامَّةِ الرَّعِيَّة , فَإِنَّ عَلَى مَنْ أَمَرُوهُ بِذَلِكَ طَاعَتهمْ , وَكَذَلِكَ فِي كُلّ مَا لَمْ يَكُنْ لِلَّهِ مَعْصِيَة . وَإِذْ كَانَ ذَلِكَ كَذَلِكَ كَانَ مَعْلُومًا بِذَلِكَ صِحَّة مَا اِخْتَرْنَا مِنْ التَّأْوِيل دُون غَيْره .

    You have yet to present a single proof from Book of :Allah: or Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad :saw: about anything what you have to say:

    a) Your proof of Sunnees not giving due defference to Sayyidina Ali (RA) is TTI!

    b) You have found a Fatwa on Islam-qa but you can't post it!

    :wasalam:
  7. Aapa
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    Aapa Mirajmom

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    Assalaam alaikum,


    Sister,

    This is not personal. A fatawa by definition is not binding.

    We are encouraged to love the scholar. But a fatawa is not absolute. They have knowledge to a degree and they will admit that. But a fatawa is not absolute. Ask the scholars. Ask the sheiks. It is not absolute. It is a decision given the circumstances. There is not 100% consensus on fatawas. They are not absolute.

    Brother Tic Tac Toe,

    A fatawa is not binding. And that is the truth. A fatawa is a ruling on specific subject. It is not absolute law.


    A fatawa is not absolute. And you known that is the truth.

    You know that the scholars would agree with me on this one, 100%. A fatawa is an opinion.
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  8. sister herb
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    sister herb Official TTI Chef

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    Salam alaykum

    You are right dear sister. Nothing is not absolute. We people just think sometimes that mercy of Allah is as narrow like our own mind.

    We should remember that His mercy is limitless.

    :shymuslima1:
  9. um muhammad al-mahdi
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    um muhammad al-mahdi لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله Staff Member

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    Assalamu Alaykum

    I've asked cause you are giving your 'personal explanation' of what a fatwa is subhanallah!

    ... Still you haven't answered my question, Allahu 'alam.

    Jazakillahu khayran
  10. tic_tac_toe
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    tic_tac_toe Junior Member

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    What I have learnt in the last 2 days is Qur'aan, Sunnah, Hadeeth, Fatwa, Text, Research nothing is absolute except what comes from you and we are supposed to sit there and bow to your superior opinion and if we question or ask for proof then we are either angry, childish or unreasonable! You can choose to present TTI search as proof or conjure up Ghost Fatwaas from thin air and if you present Ghost Fatwaas we are obliged to accept it merely based on your word that it exists but even when we actually produce the text of the Fatwa it isn't binding at all simply based on your opinion.

    In summary, all your Fatwaas are binding, all our Fatwaas are non-binding and someone' s opinion thus rejected.

    Isn't this about the gist of what you stand for?
  11. Precious Star
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    Precious Star Junior Member

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    but brother Tic Tac Toe, I've noticed that you often adopt the same type of attitude that you are describing above. "my way or the highway and everyone else is stupid or ignorant." I've read the type of words you use to describe people who disagree with you, and they aren't always polite.

    Sorry to be so blunt. I'm a disinterested observer in this entire discussion, so I thought I would tell you what I am observing from afar.

    I think it would behoove you to learn from your own words, rather than hurl insults at those you disagree with you or offer differing opinions. Why do you take things so personally -- if you disagree with someone you end up attacking them on a personal level.

    Again, I'm sorry if this is too direct (and I suspect you are going to send me some harsh words saying I am this and I am that, but....)
  12. um muhammad al-mahdi
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    um muhammad al-mahdi لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله Staff Member

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    Assalamu alaykum sister Precious Star,

    As you are a disinterested observer of this discussion please try to avoid fitnah. Sister Aapa can answer back the brother and vice versa.

    Jazakillahu khayran for your patience and understanding
  13. Precious Star
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    Precious Star Junior Member

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    WS

    I'm not sure if I am the one causing fitnah, sister. I can only hope that my comments above were taken constructively, rather than adverarily.
  14. ditta
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    ditta Alhamdu'Lillaah Staff Member

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    Wa-alaykum-us-salaam,

    But sister I am not referring to the ruling in this instance. The Qur'an says, do not marry the mushrik, therefore if it is determined that Shi'ah (or the one in question) or the Christians/Jews of today are mushrikeen, then how can it be permissible to marry them? Do you deem it permissible despite knowing that most Shi'ah (like I said, I don't know of any exceptions) have extremely questionable beliefs? This isn't making something forbidden because the Lawgiver states the bounds (i.e., don't marry the mushrik).
  15. tic_tac_toe
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    tic_tac_toe Junior Member

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    :salam2: Sister,

    I must appreciate your assistance in trying to mediate between Muslims and you are welcome to participate instead of a silent observer and assist in understanding Aapa, here is what we have been asking:

    When asked for proof, this is what she claimed!

    Then she says:

    Asked for proof, none forthcoming!

    In between are these Gems:

    Asked for proof, none forthcoming!

    Now put hand on the heart and tell me, "Is asking for what she is claiming disrespectful? dishonorable???"

    So far she has called us (Sunni Muslim) blasphemous, called me angry (twice), called us all sorts and I haven't said anything but asked her to provide evidence, please enlighten us to how you want us to handle this?

    Even said this:

    If you have read the whole discussion would you mind clarifying what I have done wrong?

    :jazaak:
    :wasalam:
  16. Aapa
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    Aapa Mirajmom

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    Assalaam alaikum,

    A Shia can do hajj. There is no fatawa for that.

    Brother Tic Tac Toe....even if I am dead wrong help me out here. Do you not agree that Ali (ra) and Fatima belong to a special bond that even the Mother of the Believers, Ayisa does not hold. The relationship between the Prophet, swas, and Fatima was very intimate and special. Did he, swas, not love his daughter and she love him. We do not celebrate this whatsoever here. Limit this to TTI. Call me lacking in knowledge but there are so few threads on the wisdom of the words of Fatima.

    Brother, yes, what you have done wrong is you choose what you wish to respond to and ignore the rest. You know I am correct about a fatawa. You know that is the absolute truth. A fatawa is not absolute.

    Let us say a person is considering Islam. Are we being fair to this person? Are we being honest with this person. There are many within the Sunni who do acknowledge Ali and Fatima equally there are some Sunni's who do not. I wonder why?

    And I stand by what I said. You know it to be true...we get an opinion from a scholar..sometimes that is formalized into what is called a fatawa..but a fatawa is not absolute. The scholars have told us when in doubt about their interpretations to go to other scholars and discard what they have written. They do not wish to be accountable for error and the limitations of human egos.

    Are you going to prevent people from going to hajj? Hey, only Muslims go to hajj.

    A fatawa is an opinion. And you know that is the truth of the matter. Muslims go to hajj.
  17. ditta
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    ditta Alhamdu'Lillaah Staff Member

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    Wa-alaykum-us-salaam,

    ^ Who here doesn't acknowledge that Ali (radiyAllahu anh) and Faatimah (radiyAllahu anha) are eminent Companions? They are although their rank is put into context of their superiors (in the case of Ali here). Just how Umar (radiyAllahu anh) acknowledged the superiority of Abu Bakr (radiyAllahu anh), as did Ali of them. For example:

    It was narrated that 'Ali said:

    "Shall I not tell you of the best of this Ummah after its Prophet? Abu Bakr?"


    Then he said:

    "Shall I not tell you of the best of this Ummah after Abu Bakr? 'Umar"


    (Musnad Ahmad)

    It was narrated that Muammad ibn al-Hanafiyyah said: "I said to my father: 'Which of the people is best after the Messenger of Allah :saw:. He said:

    'Abu Bakr'

    I said:

    'Then who?'

    He said:

    "Umar.'

    I was afraid that he would say 'Uthman next, so I said:

    'Then you?'

    He said:

    'I am just one of the Muslims"

    (Bukhari)

    With regards to the Mother of the Believers, then what about the Khadeejah (radiyAllahu anha) wherein Jibreel conveyed salaam to her from her Lord. This issue with regards to the Mother of the Believers is irrelevant really because it takes nothing away from either of them, Khadeejah, Faatimah, and A'ishah, in terms of their superiority to other women. Therefore I could say, why isn't there more information on Khadeejah here? Why are there more posts of less superior women? This is silly.

    In terms of the actual issue of this thread, it is clear I think.

    The other point of legal rulings being absolute, well, after the Qur'an and Sunnah, we refer to those in authority/knowledge, and often what they say stems from the former two, although some occasions it falls upon their deduction. This issue or related aspects from my understanding do not fall under it.
  18. Idris16
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    'A'isha, the Umm al-Mu'minin, said, "I did not see anyone who more resembled the Messenger of Allah, :saw:, in manner of speaking that Fatima. When she came to him, he stood up for her, made her welcome, kissed her and had her sit in his place. When the Prophet came to her, she stood up for him, took his hand, made him welcome, kissed him, and made him sit in her place. She came to him during his final illness and he greeted her and kissed her."

    http://www.sunnah.com/urn/2209250
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  19. slaveofAllah88
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    slaveofAllah88 Slave of Allah (swt)

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    aslam o aliakum wa rahmatuAllahi wa barakatuhu,

    im taking this from my other post ( http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90589 ) which talked about the lecture by Nouman ALi khan

    Education is based on three things:

    1. Information
    2. Understanding
    3. Application

    I know everyone in today's time and age information is very easy, in one click you can have so much information on your hand, but the reason we need scholars and why we have so much respect cause they are the one who are carrying the understanding of the information, and Information + understanding = knowledge. Now in islam just having the knowledge is not enough have to put it into application.

    Now in islamic terminology, you have ilm (information) , aqal (understanding) and when you have this together, and you act on it, al amal, that’s actually what is called wisdom. When you have knowledge and application together, that’s the third stage hikmah (wisdom).

    You can have information at your finger tips but till you understand it properly its not knowledge, hence i hope everyone appreciate our scholars and their verdicts (fatwa) on issues cause they are the possess ilm (knowledge) and then look at the following hadith and ponder how beautiful the words of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) are and how important scholars of the ummah are


    The Prophet sallallâhu ’alayhi wa sallam said: “Indeed, the Scholars are the inheritors of the Prophets and indeed the Prophets do not leave behind them the dînâr or the dirham as inheritance, they leave only knowledge behind as inheritance. So whosoever acquires it, acquires a huge fortune.”

    Related by Abû Dâwûd (no.3641), and Ibn Majah (no.223), from Abûd-Darda radiallâhu ’anhu. It was authenticated by Shaykh al-Albânî in his checking to Sharhus-Sunnah (1/276).
  20. Gupta
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    Gupta Member

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    Isn't it shocking how inflexible we can be to the minorities within our own religion? My father, for instance, has this animosity towards Shia that was formed and molded by the "religious" talk shows on Saudi TV. He has never met a Shia nor has he ever read Shia literature, yet he is very comfortable accusing them of "spitting on Umar" and "conspiring to convert Sunnis to Shiism"
    I on the other hand, read shia literature and noticed that all of the accusations are false. We've been bombing their mosques, burning their tombs, belittling them, accusing them of false allegations. All for what?

    I say this with kindness and respect, tic_tac_toe: you are no different than my father. You let a small group of men with media and/or financial power tell you how to think. And this is no ordinary small group of men; this small group is the same group that encourages young, naive and gullible muslim boys to strap explosives around their waist and charge at innocent civilians.

    To what ends? *shaking my head*

    Some accuse them of "working with Jews,' But tell me, which nations harbor Israeli and American military bases? Sunni. Jordan, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Oman, Turkey, Jordan, Qatar, and many more. I'm yet to hear Saudi clerics denouncing any of this. Just a few weeks ago, it was discovered that there exists an American drone base inside Saudi land. Muslim land. Killing muslims with Saudi permission. And Shia are the evil ones?

    You will never learn.
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