a_stranger
Junior Member
I think you are far from the satan but near to the Rahman (the Rahman is the most mercifull : Allah most Glorified) .....Compassion is something planted in human hearts by the most Gracious, Most Merciful.
The cattle
- Thread starter vegangoth
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I think you are far from the satan but near to the Rahman (the Rahman is the most mercifull : Allah most Glorified) .....Compassion is something planted in human hearts by the most Gracious, Most Merciful.
Nurain
Junior Member
Assalamu alaykum brothers and sisters;
and hi Laura, my two cents worth,
Allaah has made lawful some animals and unlawful some.
O you who believe! Make not unlawful the Tayyibât (all that is good as regards foods, things, deeds, beliefs, persons) which Allâh has made lawful to you, and transgress not (Yusuf Ali: “commit no excess”). Verily, Allâh does not like the transgressors. – Al Maidah:87
My knowledge is as such, I submit to what Allaah says. I am sure some brothers and sisters here have more knowledge,
jazakAllaah khair brothers and sisters for replying.
and hi Laura, my two cents worth,
Allaah has made lawful some animals and unlawful some.
O you who believe! Make not unlawful the Tayyibât (all that is good as regards foods, things, deeds, beliefs, persons) which Allâh has made lawful to you, and transgress not (Yusuf Ali: “commit no excess”). Verily, Allâh does not like the transgressors. – Al Maidah:87
My knowledge is as such, I submit to what Allaah says. I am sure some brothers and sisters here have more knowledge,
jazakAllaah khair brothers and sisters for replying.
vegangoth
Banned
Studies have shown that plants and veg can reacte to destruction but that does not mean that they feel pain in the way a cow does if you hit it with a bolt of electricity or the way you would feel if you shut your hand in a car door. Plants and veggies also re-act to light and sound but that does not mean that they can see or hear. Unless of course you are talking about corn which has ears and potatoes that have eye's lol
:salam2:
Probably you have over looked the studies I mentioned to you (the one's by Non-Muslims) that when the animal is slaughter in the Halal Manner it does the feel any pain. Not just one studies, there are numerous others. Most if not all by Non-Muslims.
Your second argument is that it is justified to eat plants, because they have two sense less. I am sure some one would soon come along with the example Zakir Naik gives in response to that.
user expired!
Junior Member
salam,
1) We as Muslims believe that these animals have been created fro us to feed on, so even if they feel pain they have a purpose to fulfill and that is to be eaten. However you can be still be a good Muslim and be a vegetarian.
The Islamic way of slaughtering is not to electrocute but to slaughter the animal via the cutting of the jugular vein and to allow all the blood to be drained. Many tests have shown that the 'stunning method' used in the UK causes great harm to the animal and in some cases it kills the animal.
2) What is the definition of pain? Research clearly shows that plant react to stresses, they might not scream out and say 'oww' but they do feel pain, just cos we can't hear it doesn't really justify your point, it's like attacking a person who can't talk just cos thay can't make a sound it doesn't justify the attack.
1) We as Muslims believe that these animals have been created fro us to feed on, so even if they feel pain they have a purpose to fulfill and that is to be eaten. However you can be still be a good Muslim and be a vegetarian.
The Islamic way of slaughtering is not to electrocute but to slaughter the animal via the cutting of the jugular vein and to allow all the blood to be drained. Many tests have shown that the 'stunning method' used in the UK causes great harm to the animal and in some cases it kills the animal.
2) What is the definition of pain? Research clearly shows that plant react to stresses, they might not scream out and say 'oww' but they do feel pain, just cos we can't hear it doesn't really justify your point, it's like attacking a person who can't talk just cos thay can't make a sound it doesn't justify the attack.
Does that mean we can kill someone who is unable to hear or see I mean can we kill a Human being or an animal which deaf and blind
???
vegangoth
Banned
Does that mean we can kill someone who is unable to hear or see I mean can we kill a Human being or an animal which deaf and blind
Absolutley after all what else are they good for? :wink:
shichemlydia
Junior Member
reply
salam alikoum,
muslims can eat food since it is from a halal kind (not pig,...), and it must be slaughtered according to the islamic way.
wa salam alikoum
salam alikoum,
muslims can eat food since it is from a halal kind (not pig,...), and it must be slaughtered according to the islamic way.
wa salam alikoum
allah is with me
Rabana Wa laqal Hamd
huh! no .............................. muslims should eat , what is halal to them ... they can eat animals, first of all, muslims are veg, and non-veg...allah has permitted them to eat, that allah has done halal for them ..and we have to obey him
~Ali_
Fixing da foundation
Peace be upon you, I agree with you dear sister, even though vegangoth claims to be a "satanist" - she has a spark of sincerity about her which is brilliant
and always the best path to learn Islam.
Hello Vegan,
Islaam which means submition, obedience to the One and only True God worthy of worship, Allah, is all based upon evidence, proof and faith. Infact, in islaam we are obligated to study our religion in order that we are aware of all our obligation and prohibitions. Islaam is not a new religion but a religion which was thought through by all the messengers and prophets sent from Adam to the last and final and the seal of the prophets Muhammad pbuh. All of the messengers were sent with calling their people to Tawhid (submition and obedience (Islaam) the true worship of Only One True God Allah, and not associate no partners with Him) as He is not part of His creation nor is He subhane (may He be above all error and imperfaction) not like anything nor part of any of His creation. Allah says in the quran "laysa kamithlihi shayy" nothing is like Him. Everything is in need of Him, but Allah is not in need of anyone. As it was the traditions of all the prophets was to first invite the people into Tawhid (Ones of Allah) by believing that there is nothing worthy of worship except Allah alone with no partners and that Muhammad pbuh (peace be upon him) is His slave and messenger. With this, a person become muslim. Therefore, I also invte you into islaam (submition) to your creator.
Whatever Allah permitted us to eat in the quraan, we are permitted to eat it. Whatever He prohibitted us, than we have to stay away from that. Than there are the areas which are not clearly prohibitted/allowed, and here we turn to our scholars in order that they can tell us by using proofs or incase if there are no clear proofs then they might turn to qiyaas (which is opinion) in order to give us best possible rulings.
Allah send us His laws down in order that all people have something that they can unite upon. Since Allah is our creator, than whatever He likes it should be sufficient for all of us to love as well, and whatever He does not like, then it should be sufficient for all of us to not like that nor do that. With billions of people since Adam until now it would be hard to unite all upon what we like and what we hate. It would be hard to make a set of rules that all would follow. What i like, you might not like. What i hate, you might like it. So, how do we unite what is good and what is bad, well we have to turn to our Creator who is the one who sent His rules down for all the people to follow. If He did not sent any rules down, well we would not live any different than the animals, maybe even worse. Just like when you buy a product, a manual comes with it. You have to have a manual in order to know how that thing works. The same way with this life, Allah sent us down Two manuals, the Quran and the sunnah of His prophet. One does not go without the other. In them manuals, we have some rules to follow. We have to obey Allah and His prophet as there are numerous verses in the quran.
* Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and beware (of evil): if ye do turn back, know ye that it is Our Messenger’s duty to proclaim (the Message) in the clearest manner. (5: 92).
* O ye who believe! obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: that is best, and most suitable for final determination. (4: 59).
* Say: “Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance.(24: 54).
* And whoever obeys Allâh and His Messenger, Allâh shall admit him in the Gardens underneath which rivers flow. (4:13)
* And whoever obeys Allâh and His Messenger, he has won a great success. (33:71)
* And we sent no messenger, but that he should be obeyed by the leave of Allâh. (4:64)
As for eating animals, then Allah has given us the right to use the animals and take care of them. We are suppose to behave with them in the best manner. If we use them, we are not to over work them. We should feed them and take care of them. Also, even when we slaughter them for food our prophet
told us "fa ahsinuu zhabaha" that we slaughter the best manner we can without causing torture to the animal and he told us to do that is "to sharpen the blade" sharpen it the best way and as sharp as it can be. Infact, there is an entire chapter in the quraan called "Anam" The Cattle, you should take time to read it. Having sad that, Allah created some animals and some are herbivores (plant eating) and some are carnivores (meat eating and yet, some are both of them (omnivores). Herbivores differ from carnivores. When you look at the teeth of herbivores, then they are dull and not sharp, specifically designed for plants. When you look at the teeth structure of carnivores, then they are sharp and designed to pray on some other creature. Allah created us to be omnivore (both plant and meat eating). He gave us the teeth of the herbivores and also teeth of the carnivores. that is why we have them K-9 teeth lol. We can't eat all animals. Some animals are also prohibited for us to eat.
Anyways, my hand is starting to hurt now. I usually don't like to right much but i just had to respond here. Vagangoth, I invite you to islaam whether you have doubts or not about islaam. Once you submit to Allah, the Creator and Lord of the seven heavens and earth, than He will help you get the understand and peace in whatever He revealed to us. But if somoene does not believe in Allah and muhammad as His messenger, than whatever we tll them about islaam won't matter because if they do not believe in Allah, how they goingto believe in everything we put down. Event though some things are hard to understand why, that is when we have to have faith. We know our lord is perfect and just and the most merciful and we submit ourselves to Him. As you read through the quraan all the verses in quran talk about this life and how it is a test and trial and wether we will submit ourselves to Allah.
Allah says in quraan in surah mulk
"He Who created Death and Life, that He may try which of you is best in deed: and He is the Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving;"
Hope this helped a little.
Tace care.
I
diplomaticmuslim
Banned
interesting. u grossly misunderstood. its not a command to eat cattle meat, its a permission to eat cattle meat and what is forbidden is the meat of pigs.
i think you are an indian by ethnicity right? u state the exact same arguments that hindus put forward for cows, cow urine and plant eating.
thariq2005
Praise be to Allah!
Just to let you know we are not allowed to kill animals in a way that would hurt that them. The prophet (Peace and blessings of Allah be upon) said sharpen your knives so that the animals may not feel the pain. If you ever see a proper Islamic Slaughter then you will see that the slaughter is very quick and the animal dies out very quickly. Your not allowed to beat it, or anything else that would hurt it in anyway.
P.S I hope you understand the arguments my brothers/sisters put forth about the disabled brother
. Its something no one can refute lol vegangoth, youre questions are good, ask away and do not be put off by anybody who says 'thread closed' or gets defensive.
firstly you have to remember that the islamic method of slaughter means that the animal FEELS NO PAIN and scientific experiments have proven this where electrodes were placed on the animal to measure pain levels and the islamic way the animal feels no pain. in the islamic method, the jugular vein is cut, which carries alot of blood, this causes instant death. not only that, as the blood drains from the animal, all the harmful bacteria are removed (contained in blood). the western method as you know, involves a bullet to the brain, causing dispersion and great pain and slow death, this is ofcourse unethical, and against islam. also bear in mind, Allah says that He created these animals for us. this however means we treat them kindly, including feeding and watering the animal and not tiring it and no animal is allowed to see the slaughter of another animal and that the animal to be slaughtered must be well fed and watered before-hand so that is is completely comfortable. this is how merciful islam is, a geat contrast to the western method.
i laughed when i read jasmine's post because i thought exactly the same thing! but hey we'll hold off the party for now hehe.
hana
firstly you have to remember that the islamic method of slaughter means that the animal FEELS NO PAIN and scientific experiments have proven this where electrodes were placed on the animal to measure pain levels and the islamic way the animal feels no pain. in the islamic method, the jugular vein is cut, which carries alot of blood, this causes instant death. not only that, as the blood drains from the animal, all the harmful bacteria are removed (contained in blood). the western method as you know, involves a bullet to the brain, causing dispersion and great pain and slow death, this is ofcourse unethical, and against islam. also bear in mind, Allah says that He created these animals for us. this however means we treat them kindly, including feeding and watering the animal and not tiring it and no animal is allowed to see the slaughter of another animal and that the animal to be slaughtered must be well fed and watered before-hand so that is is completely comfortable. this is how merciful islam is, a geat contrast to the western method.
i laughed when i read jasmine's post because i thought exactly the same thing! but hey we'll hold off the party for now hehe.
hana
Muslim18
Blessed Muslimah
Peace
I know this thread was made a couple of days ago but i havent been able to reply sorry but it got me thinking of a lecture i listened to. The lecturer said If we were all made and meant to be vegetarians then why do we have canine teeth, the whole purpose of these teeth you know is to tear meat and eat animal's soo i was thought the answer is right there in your mouth either you choose to use them or dont. And i dont think that plants need much tearing into lol anyway hope i gave a little insight into the bigger picture That we are all created for a purpose and our bodies the sky above the whole earth is a sign of that and if we dont acknowledge and worship the one (Allah) who created this for us all then we have not severed our purpose here now have we......
P.s. you do tend to write lol a lot i read in a couple of posts and i was like lol just kidding anyway hope i didnt offend you in any way these are my personal beliefs
Peace be with you
I know this thread was made a couple of days ago but i havent been able to reply sorry but it got me thinking of a lecture i listened to. The lecturer said If we were all made and meant to be vegetarians then why do we have canine teeth, the whole purpose of these teeth you know is to tear meat and eat animal's soo i was thought the answer is right there in your mouth either you choose to use them or dont. And i dont think that plants need much tearing into lol anyway hope i gave a little insight into the bigger picture That we are all created for a purpose and our bodies the sky above the whole earth is a sign of that and if we dont acknowledge and worship the one (Allah) who created this for us all then we have not severed our purpose here now have we......
P.s. you do tend to write lol a lot i read in a couple of posts and i was like lol just kidding anyway hope i didnt offend you in any way these are my personal beliefs
Peace be with you
ProudToBeaMuslim
Junior Member
Did you know that recent scientific study has shown that plants can feel pian? They can even cry out in pain!! I am gonna go Zakir Naik in the next few sentances:
"Once a vegetarian argued his case by saying that plants only have two or three senses while the animals have five senses.
Therefore killing a plant is a lesser crime than killing an animal. Suppose your brother is born deaf and dumb and has two senses less as compared to other human beings. He becomes mature and someone murders him. Would you ask the judge to give the murderer a lesser punishment because your brother has two senses less? In fact you would say that he has killed a masoom, an innocent person, and the judge should give the murderer a greater punishment.
In fact the Qur’an says:
"O ye people! Eat of what is on earth, lawful and good"
Rest of this article on the link Poster no#6 gave!!
"Once a vegetarian argued his case by saying that plants only have two or three senses while the animals have five senses.
Therefore killing a plant is a lesser crime than killing an animal. Suppose your brother is born deaf and dumb and has two senses less as compared to other human beings. He becomes mature and someone murders him. Would you ask the judge to give the murderer a lesser punishment because your brother has two senses less? In fact you would say that he has killed a masoom, an innocent person, and the judge should give the murderer a greater punishment.
In fact the Qur’an says:
"O ye people! Eat of what is on earth, lawful and good"
Rest of this article on the link Poster no#6 gave!!
vegangoth
Banned
Good does not apply to meat otherwise it would not cause heart disease and high colestral.
As for plants feeling pain well I'm still not convinced after all if I hit you with a baseball bat I'd see the imediate reaction to that action, simelrily if I hit a cow with one. The whole point is the brain and the central nervous system shows that sentiant being feel pain. Brain=pain
Even if it is proven. meat eaters kill way more plants than veggie/vegans ever would. due to the fact that animals need to eat so that they get nice and juicy and plump for you.
As for your litlte ( borrowed) situation about the deaf kid. I would be angry fully stop that he was murdered regardelss of how many senses he lacked.
vegangoth
Banned
Peace
I know this thread was made a couple of days ago but i havent been able to reply sorry but it got me thinking of a lecture i listened to. The lecturer said If we were all made and meant to be vegetarians then why do we have canine teeth, the whole purpose of these teeth you know is to tear meat and eat animal's soo i was thought the answer is right there in your mouth either you choose to use them or dont. And i dont think that plants need much tearing into lol anyway hope i gave a little insight into the bigger picture That we are all created for a purpose and our bodies the sky above the whole earth is a sign of that and if we dont acknowledge and worship the one (Allah) who created this for us all then we have not severed our purpose here now have we......
P.s. you do tend to write lol a lot i read in a couple of posts and i was like lol just kidding anyway hope i didnt offend you in any way these are my personal beliefs
Peace be with you
Have you looked at your cainie teeth latley? They are tiny compared to that of true carnivoures which are made for ripping and tearing into flesh. Our teeth are more suited to bitting into fruit etc. It is not our natural state to eat other animals. You give a child a hamster and a carrot, the child will eat the carrot and pet the hamster, give the hamster and a carrot to a cat and it's goodnight vienna for the hamster.
Dinka and Kapauka have recently came into contact with outside world. No one told them what to eat and what not to. Read whether they eat non veg or not. Sure enough Christian Missionaries were quick to reach them but they have been eating Non-Veg well before that.
Kapauku Papuans of West New Guinea
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kapauku-Pap...3HZS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1243172229&sr=8-2
Divinity and Experience: The Religion of the Dinka
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0198234058/ref=ox_ya_oh_product
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