To generalize!!! is it a human problem?

[Hatty]

Is it a human problem to generalize?

We, Muslims, blame others when they attack Muslims and Islam. We accuse them of generalization. It is only few people who committed this crime, atrocity etc, not all of the Muslims. However, we forget ourselves and we fall into the same trap. We also generalize. We should know better. Because we are victim of this human problem. So we should not do the same to others by generalizing.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

So brother give me the Quranic ayat that tells me not to generalize.

Humans generalize to make sense out of data. Do not confuse generalization with stereotyping.

We have to generalize to make decisions. It is natural. Or else we would be too confused or too caught up in minute.

And sometimes brother in this politically correct world it is time to tell the Truth. It is ok for Muslims to say we need to be careful about taking Jews and Christians as our friends and protectors. We should not cast sin upon them but by all means we need to be honest with ourselves.

The trouble with Muslims today is we so afraid of hurting feelings of those who are not Muslims. What does faith have to do with feelings.

 

[septithol]

Some thoughts on this:

Generalization is probably human, it dates back to when people were in tribes, and lived their lives pretty much by the rule of 'our tribe' vs 'other tribes'. It has caused a lot of problems nowadays, because the human instinct due to this is to assume that the differences of other people, say, of blacks vs whites, are somehow both purposeful and malevolent. Obviously this is nonsense, if you think it through, a person cannot control the color of their skin, nor does their skin color mean they are malevolent, but most people don't think.

As for being caught up in minutae: There are people who think this way, this is how some autistics think. Being too autistic is not very functional, but it's actually useful to a group of people as a whole to have a few *somewhat* autistic people around, as they see things that other people don't.

Regarding Muslims, I agree that not all Muslims are criminals, but there seem to be certain *types* of crimes which are committed nowadays, mostly by Muslims. This uniqueness of a particular crime to a particular culture is not an exclusively Muslim phenomena, there have been other crimes which have been unique to certain cultures. The sin of 'violent wasting' comes to mind. This was a fairly common sin in the middle ages in Europe, but is simply not done any more by anyone. At least, not in the particular form that it was done in Medieval Europe. This being the case, if you read about someone who committed the sin of being a 'violent waster', it would probably be a fairly safe assumption that the person was a medieval European, and when reading about certain other crimes, it is often a safe assumption that the perpetrator is from some other particular cultural group. Snake handlers (a dangerous, unpleasant, and often illegal religious practice) for instance, are all from a particular area of the south in the USA.

This being the case, there are also certain crimes (or acts which many people regard as crimes) which are committed mostly by Muslims, so when hearing about someone committing such a crime, it's a natural and safe assumption that the person who did so, was probably a Muslim.

In fact, the act in question doesn't even have to be a crime, there are many acts which are unique to particular cultures, particular places and times. If you hear about someone wearing a hat that looks like a wedge of cheese on their head, or calling a water fountain a 'bubbler', it's a pretty safe assumption that they are from Wisconsin. And if you hear about someone going outside and praying at certain times of the day, it's a pretty safe assumption that they are a Muslim.

The trouble with Muslims today is we so afraid of hurting feelings of those who are not Muslims.

Hmm. That isn't my take on the situation at all.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

You actually made sense..until the last sentence...


The trouble with Muslims is they are always trying to show the best of manners and me being ( american ) sometimes likes to get loud....sorry

 

[nyerekareem]

If we are going to be blunt with people, we then have to be ready for people to be blunt with us.

 

[nyerekareem]

I used to generalize about a lot of different people. It may have taken a long time, but a day came when one of the people that I used to generalize proved me wrong, causing me to reconsider the generalization of people. Right now I'm just trying to speak good or remain silent.

 

[septithol]

Generalization is actually probably a survival strategy in almost all species. In nature, almost all animals are afraid of anything new. Doesn't matter if it's a new sort of animal, a new sort of plant, or a new rock that wasn't there yesterday. They are all afraid of it. They generalize: New thing = BAD! Keep Away!! Why? Well, it's like this: if it's dangerous, being afraid and keeping away from it will save your life. If it's not dangerous, keeping away from it probably won't kill you.

This is less of a trait in some people, and interestingly enough, is also less of a trait in some pet animals. The reason why, is the traits that are good for survival in the wild are not those traits that necessarily make for a good pet, so have been bred out of pets over time. A good pet cat is one that can accept that twigs sometimes snap (or there are otherwise sometimes inexplicable noises) without going berserk and tearing your house apart as a result, which is what a wild animal that had not been bred as a pet for several generations would do.

 

[esperanza]

Is it a human problem to generalize?

We, Muslims, blame others when they attack Muslims and Islam. We accuse them of generalization. It is only few people who committed this crime, atrocity etc, not all of the Muslims. However, we forget ourselves and we fall into the same trap. We also generalize. We should know better. Because we are victim of this human problem. So we should not do the same to others by generalizing.

salam brother

yes ithink that its a human problem ,found among everyone non muslims and non muslims ,and all of us do it to a certain extent
yes we hate it when peopele generalise about muslims...yet we do about christians about jews about westerners

and sadly now within muslimss,about certain groups of people from certain countries or cultures

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

No, the word you seek is stereotyping. That is when we make assumptions. Generalization takes patterns and reoccurrances ; its an educated guess.

Two different groupings. Two different thought processes. Let us not get murky.

 

[esperanza]

Assalaam walaikum,

No, the word you seek is stereotyping. That is when we make assumptions. Generalization takes patterns and reoccurrances ; its an educated guess.

Two different groupings. Two different thought processes. Let us not get murky.

dear sister im sorry.. ithink its not just steroetyping or generilazation but a from of prejudice

iwanted to open another thread on this but its started so

most of us have some kind of generilazation about the west..the kafirs the jews the atheisits..for religious reasons usually

but more worrying is when this is among muslims

we differentiate between born muslims and revert muslims..beween arab and asian and african muslims beteen arabs and gulf arabs,,,between hijabis and non hijabs..etc

we all make these generiliusations,,,but when this borders on prejudice,,which i have witnessed on this site..thats worrying

were all forgetting one of the major parts of islam that all are equal
we should all ponder on this serioously especially at this time

if we witness it even on this site then how bad is it across the world.....

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

What?!!

No...there are misconceptions about others.

Sister...in life we make decisions. It is a simple step. I chose this over that.

Now, Muslims make decisions. It is simple. Is my behavior in accordance with this or that. It is from Sunna and Quran or is it.

To call a spade a spade is a good thing.

What is happening is many are still using references from the duyna..the so called politically correct thinking which is confusion from confused and arrogant people and wishing for Muslims to use it.

Who is prejudiced? That is the thinking of non-believers. You are using the definitions of the disbelievers and those gone astray.

This guilt stems from us lacking knowledge to define who we are in accordance with Islam. We need to have firm knowledge of our faith.

We are so confused with the ideology of that which calls us evil.

Sister, why please shytan? Why use his words to describe Muslims...much better to use words from ourselves.

 

[septithol]

To call a spade a spade is a good thing.

True, although opinions can differ on whether or not the spade is a good and useful thing, and the different opinions can all be valid. If you want to dig a garden, a spade is a useful thing, but on the other hand, if you want to perform surgery, and someone hands you a spade, rather than a scalpel, you would probably be horrified.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

To call a spade a spade is an old southern expression from the US. It simply translates to being truthful and not politically correct. Tell the truth.

 

[sister herb]

:salam2:

Generalization is problem. May Allah help we understand that we all are same.

When we generalizade others we at the same time do it to us.

I am human as jew or christian is too.

 

[strive-may-i]

Premature Generalizing...

Is it a human problem to generalize?

We, Muslims, blame others when they attack Muslims and Islam. We accuse them of generalization. It is only few people who committed this crime, atrocity etc, not all of the Muslims. However, we forget ourselves and we fall into the same trap. We also generalize. We should know better. Because we are victim of this human problem. So we should not do the same to others by generalizing.

Generalization, Stereotyping are Very useful thought techniques. But what we are seeing is , generalization, stereotyping based on negative traits rather than on positive traits. Thats one ridiculous way of grouping objects, men and human behavior, that we often revert to.

Think of how species are grouped based on generalization and specialization. A similar approach is needed for humans too. Its all wrapped in layers, you cannot just blindly ignore them. It needs skill, patience and consumes time, Since there are too many layers and since no one has time, they take the easy lazy path. We accuse a fellow human, We are more content in finding faults, not mending them..

Its very subtle. Now to me generalization is the smart way to group things together, based on whats common to them. And at same time its also about , keeping out objects/humans who do not fit. The aim is to benefit by reducing the burden of keeping count of many things. The burden of correctly grouping still remains. To give the Benefit of doubt [versus taking benefit of doubt], is what a just mind learns to practice and perfect.

 

[strive-may-i]

The topic is "To generalize!!! Is it a human problem". The discussion would bring better insights, if we generalize enough to speak about it a human level. And stop dividing the species Human being further.

 

[strive-may-i]

Some thoughts on this:

Generalization is probably human, it dates back to when people were in tribes, and lived their lives pretty much by the rule of 'our tribe' vs 'other tribes'. It has caused a lot of problems nowadays, because the human instinct due to this is to assume that the differences of other people, say, of blacks vs whites, are somehow both purposeful and malevolent. Obviously this is nonsense, if you think it through, a person cannot control the color of their skin, nor does their skin color mean they are malevolent, but most people don't think.

As for being caught up in minutae: There are people who think this way, this is how some autistics think. Being too autistic is not very functional, but it's actually useful to a group of people as a whole to have a few *somewhat* autistic people around, as they see things that other people don't.

Regarding Muslims, I agree that not all Muslims are criminals, but there seem to be certain *types* of crimes which are committed nowadays, mostly by Muslims. This uniqueness of a particular crime to a particular culture is not an exclusively Muslim phenomena, there have been other crimes which have been unique to certain cultures. The sin of 'violent wasting' comes to mind. This was a fairly common sin in the middle ages in Europe, but is simply not done any more by anyone. At least, not in the particular form that it was done in Medieval Europe. This being the case, if you read about someone who committed the sin of being a 'violent waster', it would probably be a fairly safe assumption that the person was a medieval European, and when reading about certain other crimes, it is often a safe assumption that the perpetrator is from some other particular cultural group. Snake handlers (a dangerous, unpleasant, and often illegal religious practice) for instance, are all from a particular area of the south in the USA.

This being the case, there are also certain crimes (or acts which many people regard as crimes) which are committed mostly by Muslims, so when hearing about someone committing such a crime, it's a natural and safe assumption that the person who did so, was probably a Muslim.

In fact, the act in question doesn't even have to be a crime, there are many acts which are unique to particular cultures, particular places and times. If you hear about someone wearing a hat that looks like a wedge of cheese on their head, or calling a water fountain a 'bubbler', it's a pretty safe assumption that they are from Wisconsin. And if you hear about someone going outside and praying at certain times of the day, it's a pretty safe assumption that they are a Muslim.
.

How is it that Violent wasting, is a sin and not a crime?
Septithol, one of most serious crime is to waste. Developed countries do it in excess, even now, right now at this moment. There is no second positive opinion about that. Ask the rest of the 4 billion humans. Another crime , is to manufacture and invest time and money on weapons. That alone has been the biggest shot in arm of Developed countries, to bully rest of world. Yes the developed countries can be proud of these crimes and nothing more.

Septithol, so by stating that muslims go out and pray at certain times of day in same para, what are you trying to convey? Are you not generalizing?? The Christians too go to pray at certain times of week. The devout do it more often. The Hindus too its told do that (From what I am told, Hindus bow head down when they are passing beside a temple). The devout Jew Rabi also does that. [Now this statement is from a devout christians view point, not mine]Just because church going has been replaced with pub going, it does not mean creator has forgiven.

Septithol, The topic is - "generalization, a human problem". How did the word crime creep in??, are you suffering from same problem?? An assumption cannot be safe, its mischief.

Septithol, This being the case with many of your comments, there are also certain crimes (or acts which many people regard as crimes) which are committed mostly by Prejudiced mind, so when hearing about someone commenting thus most of times in this forum, it's a natural and safe assumption that the person who always tend to do so, is probably a Hater?.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Back to topic....in our faith we are told to seek knowledge. We have to use the tools of knowledge i.e. language. There are mechanical rules but there is the universe of categories. Noam Chomsky gave us a map with language. We store data.
When we store data and we have common data we put it into folders..when I see a new object..I do the simple ok..color red, texture is smooth, smell..unique, sweet, taste..heavenly..prior knowledge apple.
We pull out past experiences and find new places in our brains for new ones.
So we have to generalize and we have to categorize and we have to compare and contrast. We do this all day long, all life long.

For Muslims it is easy. We have the source of Knowledge. We are given the rules to judge. We make mistakes in judgment when we refrain from Knowledge and we end up with prejudice, racism, and ever ism that is out there. Case in point. We think shytan has no knowledge of Allah and shytan has more knowledge that we do of Allah.

 

[Riham]

If we are going to be blunt with people, we then have to be ready for people to be blunt with us.

Assalamu alaykum.

Very nice observation.

 

[Riham]

Now, Muslims make decisions. It is simple. Is my behavior in accordance with this or that. It is from Sunna and Quran or is it.

To call a spade a spade is a good thing.

Walaykum salam sister.

Muslims make decisions. But it isn't so simple. For Muslims to act in accordance to the Qur'an and Sunnah isn't at all easy.

Decision making involves many factors, the most primary being knowledge.

The more knowledge a Muslim has, the more God-fearing he becomes the less sins he is going to commit. The more he is going to be sticking ferociously to the Qur'an and the Sunnah.

To reach that level takes a LOT OF TIME.

One can't expect a new Muslim to be on the same level of understanding and knowledge as a person who has been practicing Islam for many years.

It is a gross generalization to cast all Muslims into one category and expect all of them to abide by the rules of Islam, as though it is a simple matter.

It isn't a simple matter. Some people are fast learners. Others are quite slow.

And even if a Muslim has been practising Islam for many years, there is no guarantee that he will die as a Muslim. It is the last act of a person that counts.

We human beings are in absolutely no position to make judgments regarding anyone... least of all regarding our own fate.

The person who we call "disbeliever" for example might well turn out to be a believer just before he dies. And a person who was known to be a very pious Muslim might well turn out to be a kafir before he dies.

And I have to disagree with calling a spade a spade, in context of this discussion.

A person may be fat and it may be the truth. But it isn't necessary to tell that person that he is fat. On the contrary, it is better not to speak that truth.

The Prophet (saws) said:

"Whosoever believes in Allah and the Last Day must either speak good or remain silent." - Sahih Muslim.