UREGENT! pleaseee help!

J

JenGiove

Junior Member
:salam2:

AH! Good, because auctions for products are allowed in Islam...

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/7294/auction

Does Islam permit bidding in auctions?
​

I am working for an Internet Auction company. I want to know if Islam permits bidding in auctions.

Praise be to Allaah.


Firstly:


Islam permits selling by auctions and does not forbid it, according to the most correct and well-known opinion of the scholars. This is based on the following evidence:


Jaabir said: A man had decided that a slave of his would be manumitted after his death, but later on he was in need of money, so the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) took the slave and said, “Who will buy this slave from me?” Nu’aym ibn ‘Abd-Allaah bought him, and he (the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) handed the slave over to him. (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2034; Muslim, 997). Al-Bukhaari included this hadeeth in a chapter titled “Baab bay’ al-Muzaayadah (Chapter: selling by auction).”​


Ibn Hajar said: Ibn Battaal replied that the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) in this hadeeth, “Who will buy this slave from me?” indicate that he was offering him to the highest bidder so that the needs of the bankrupt man for whom he was selling him could be met. (Fath al-Baari, 4/354).


2. ‘Ataa’ said: I met some people who saw nothing wrong with selling booty to the highest bidder. (Narrated by al-Bukhaari in Kitaab al-Buyoo’ (the book of sales), Baab bay’ al-Muzaayadah (Chapter: selling by auction)).


Secondly:


Rational evidence:


In an auction, the vendor offers his goods for sale, and the purchaser offers to buy them for a certain price. If the vendor does not accept that price, that is the end of the matter and there is no transaction. The he will say, “Who will offer more?” A second purchaser can then offer a higher price, and so on.


In this case, each offer is a separate and independent deal, and there is nothing wrong with that.


Thirdly:


Some scholars, such as al-Oozaa’i and Ishaaq ibn Raahawayh, said that auctions can be used only to sell booty and inherited goods. Their evidence was the following hadeeth:


“The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade anyone of you from seeking to outbid one another, except in the case of booty and inherited goods.”


(Narrated by Ahmad, 5398; al-Daaraqutni, 3/11; al-Bayhaqi, 5/344; al-Tabaraani in al-Awsat, 8/198).


The response to the view is:


The hadeeth is weak, because it includes ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Lahee’ah.


The hadeeth of Jaabir is general, and the ruling remains general in application.


Hence Imaam al-Tirmidhi said:


On the basis of the hadeeth of Jaabir, some scholars did not see anything wrong with selling booty or inherited goods to the highest bidder.
Ibn al-‘Arabi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:


There is no point on restricting auctions only to these two kinds of goods. There is no difference between these goods and others; they are all the same.


(See Fath al-Baari, 4/354).


Fourthly:


Some scholars, including Ibraaheem al-Nakha’i, regarded this kind of sale as makrooh. Their evidence was the hadeeth of Sufyaan ibn Wahb:
“I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbid selling by auction.”


Response:


The hadeeth was narrated by al-Bazzaar, but it is weak, because it includes Ibn Lahee’ah. (See Fath al-Baari, 4/354).​


It is contradicted by reports which are more sound, as we have stated above.​


Fifthly:


There is no contradiction between auctions and a man outbidding his brother, which is forbidden according to the hadeeth of Abu Hurayrah: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade a city-dweller to sell to a Bedouin, and he forbade us to inflate prices artificially and to outbid one another.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2033; Muslim, 1413).


What is meant by this hadeeth is when the vendor and purchaser have come to an agreement and are bargaining over the price, and a third party comes and tempts the purchaser to cancel the transaction. But this does not apply to auctions, because in an auction it is the vendor who cancels the transaction by asking who will offer more; the people who are present at an auction are already involved, and everyone is aware that anyone may increase the price.


Sixthly:


The warning against engaging in najsh (artificially inflating prices with a fraudulent intention). In Arabic the word najsh means provoking, and is also used to refer to the action of prodding a bird to enter a trap. It refers to pushing the purchaser to fall into the vendor’s trap so that he buys at an inflated price. This is achieved by having another man attend the auction and make bids without wanting to buy, in order to raise the price. Whether this is done by agreement with the vendor or not, it is prohibited by the hadeeth, “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade artificial inflation of prices.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2035; Muslim, 1516).


In conclusion: auctions are one of the types of sale that are permitted according to Islamic sharee’ah. This is also the consensus of the Muslims in their marketplaces.



Islam Q&A

Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid
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A

Abu Talib

Feeling low
Assalamu`alaykum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatu

According to me your talking about buying bids and bidding? If that the case then thats not permissible as only the highest bid placed would win and you might actually bid more than the actual price.
 
J

JenGiove

Junior Member
babyphat said:
sister Jen, i dont really understand your post...im talking about bidding on auctions not selling.
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:salam2:

From what I can understand, bidding in an auction for a product (and that's the important thing) is allowed since the person selling either chooses to accept or reject the offer of purchase.

Each offer and rejection is a separate "contract" negotiation.

If it were for money, then it would enter into the realms of guessing on the unseen (the outcome) and only Allah knows the seen and unseen. Do you understand the difference?
 
babyphat

babyphat

..
Abu Talib said:
Assalamu`alaykum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatu

According to me your talking about buying bids and bidding? If that the case then thats not permissible as only the highest bid placed would win and you might actually bid more than the actual price.
Click to expand...

THANK YOU SO MUCH for your reply. then what should i do as i have spent a lot of money buying bids and bidding as well. and i have win anything yet...
 
strive-may-i

strive-may-i

Junior Member
Avoid it. Haraam? contact a Muslim scholar in finance matters

Exactly what do you mean penny auction. Could you explain, for benefit of others?

babyphat said:
Is bidding in an online auction such as penny auction haram?
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babyphat said:
omg...i have spent so much money on it already...what should i do now??
But i didnt win anything...
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So Penny auction [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidding_fee_auction], is where each bidder pays a minimum fee to increase the price of bid, The money is not refundable. The final winner is a matter of luck, and rest of the others loose their money. The winner might get the product for much lesser money than the market price, but the rest loose their money , The bid site makes lots of money. Here is a malaysian giving his opinion along similar lines - http://misc.feedfury.com/content/40391981-penny-auction-haram.html

I would not put my money in such an auction site, because it feeds on the greed of a person, lures each participant with a promise to give you product at much cheaper price, but makes loss to larger society+ each individual bidder, except for winner. The bid site makes much more profit than the final price of bid, and the final profit is not announced. The intention is simply not noble. The process is not transparent either. is a govt body regulating it?

Any new auction model/money making model should be approached with caution. I tell myself, there are very few legitimate models to make money (applies to bidding also). So be aware before you plunge to lure of money or something cheap. It might be really cheap and not beneficial. Penny Auction is criticized by so called finance experts themselves too, for same reason.

And whether its Haraam, you need to contact some one with deep knowledge of finance in light of Shariah.
 
A

Abu Talib

Feeling low
babyphat said:
THANK YOU SO MUCH for your reply. then what should i do as i have spent a lot of money buying bids and bidding as well. and i have win anything yet...
Click to expand...

Well then just stop it what is gone is gone. Read below in more detail

Dear sir,assalam o alaikum on internet there is a site where one can buy things relatively cheap by a sort of bidding. it works like this: first , one buys some bidding tocken , each costing about 50 cents, and then on a selected item he starts bidding.initial item prices are very cheap, and each bid is only one or two cent increase over the initial price. but since many bidders are actually giving the host company 50 cents (price of bidding tocken, used one per bid) with each bid therefore host company is never in loss. the bidder who bids highest gets the thing with the bidded price (plus the price of many bidding tockens he used ), and the rest of the bidders lose there money which they used with each bidding tocken. i want to ask whether it is halal or haram. thanking you in anticipation for your guidence Allah hafiz and best regards Ahnaf usman


Answer
All perfect praise be to Allaah, The Lord of the Worlds. I testify that there is none worthy of worship except Allaah, and that Muhammad , is His Slave and Messenger.



Sale by auction is permissible, and this is supported by the Hadeeth in which the Prophet , offered an item for sale. A man said, "I will buy it for one dirham", and the Prophet , said: "Who bids more than one dirham? Who bids more than one dirham?" When another man offered two dirhams, the Prophet , sold him the item. [Ahmad, Abu Daawood and others]

The method mentioned in the question, however, is forbidden and it does not fall under the lawful auction sale, since the money is paid for subscription, not for obtaining information. Moreover, the paid money is not returned to the person who is not the highest bidder, and this is a sort of gambling because the sale involves inevitable loss for potential gain. Indeed, this is the essence of gambling. In the resolution of the Islamic Fiqh Academy, when listing the conditions of the permissibility of sale by auction, it is stated: "Requiring a deposit from those wishing to enter the auction sale is permissible. The deposit must be returned to all the bidders who did not win the auction and it must be deducted from the selling price for the highest bidder."

Moreover, it should be noted that sale on the internet is permissible on condition that it meets the sale's requirements and conditions. The sale's requirements include offer and acceptance between the seller and the buyer on the item to be sold for the price suggested. The conditions are: the item should be lawful, pure, of benefit and possessed by the seller who is able to deliver it to the buyer. The item should be known by seeing it, or fully describing it in a manner that shows its quantity, type and other features, which leave no room for uncertainty.

Allaah Knows best.
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A

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

We are given a lesson in the Holy Quran. We are to have fair trade and measures. When bidding occurs it becomes chance. I just happen to be there at a good time. The measure changes. For one person an apple is two cents and for another it is twenty cents. The apple is still an apple.

We are forgiven our actions if we are unaware of the consequences. Now, that knowledge has come to you move on sister. Move on.
 
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