WHAT A PRIEST THINKS ABOUT A MUSLIM

[arzafar]

??referance??

Mocking the kaafirs for their kufr or the innovators for their innovations (bid’ah) is permissible because they enjoy no sanctity or protection with regard to their sin and evildoing in which they regard as permissible that which Allaah and Islam have forbidden. But this is only so long as the mocking does not go beyond the framework of dignity and truth, and it is not taken as a usual habit, and the jokes do not outweigh one's seriousness. But what we are warning against has become the habit of many people.

If one is to mock them, it should be for their going against the Sunnah, not for their different ways of dressing, walking, etc.

But is it a sin?

The correct view is that it is not a sin, rather this is something that it is permissible to talk about and joke about. The fact that the sin that we are mocking does not constitute kufr that puts a person beyond the pale of Islam makes it even more appropriate to joke about their sin, because by forsaking the truth and following falsehood, they have mocked the sanctity of Allaah.

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/9057


what i find extremely strange with some people is that although they mock the deviant sects like shia and barelvis they fail to mock or even denounce the clear disbelief of the kuffar.

denouncing the kuffar is off course obligatory and is discussed extensively in the quraan and by scholars. it's actually staggering that one can mock the deviant sects like shia/iran and at the same time turn a blind eye towards catholics/US or Jews/israel despite their clear kufr and the daily/weekly murder of muslims and innocent kaafirs.

o yes i know, not all chirstians/jews are bad
but then again not all pig/dogs are unclean either.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

That response is against the grain of Islam. This kind of thinking is exactly what keeps Muslims separated.

We can not judge. Be careful. This is what repulses the thinking process. How can a Muslim be so arrogant and forget the basic premise of Islam. We are to be humble. We lower our gaze and do not point fingers. If you mock the creation you are mocking the Creator. It is His Will to have the variety of creation.

Within the spectrum of Islam this is narrowmindness. We are to concentrate upon our individual thoughts, words, and deeds. We need unity.

When one writes and spews hate towards others if they are different we just close part of Creation.

Defining what is evil is a different ball game.

 

[hayat84]

:salam2:
@brother Arzafar,maybe the term "being arrogant"with kuffar is too rude here on this thread,because there are people who don't agree with this kind of violence,but we must fight until our last breath against those who offend us.

<The Hour will approach when the men will satisfy themselves with men and women will satisfy with women.>(Mukhtasar Tazkira Qurtubi.)
.some people don't respect each other,but we muslim have the duty to give surety of our belief.The arrogance is one of the signs of the End,so,please,don't mix ouselves with the lost ones,but just try to give them a good word

 

[hayat84]

:salam2:
I suppose you remember about the man whom I wrote some days ago.well that man who every sunday went to confess his sins to the priest,now he doen't do it anymore,because,as my husband told me,he lost his faith...So muslims can overcome to everything!!!:ma:

 

[MohammedMaksudul]

:salam2:

Everything has a context and we must understand it. We have to adhere to the proper Manhaj to Establish Islam but at the same time we can not forget justice. In fact, justice is very much integrated into the whole concept of Islam and its Manhaj. Always remember that no body more than the Prophet Muhammad :saw2: sacrificed or fought for Islam. Neither will you find any one more polite to any non-muslim other than him, when it came to teaching about Islam. Those who arrogantly offend us shall be dealt with utmost wisdom and if their depth of offense is such that violence is the only answer, only then we must resort to it. Otherwise we should try to win the hearts of the non-muslims by our character, behaviour and justice. I agree with Sister Aapa on the fact that we must not point fingers at others and mock the creation, as we ourselves don't know the end of the either of us (ourselves and the ones we mock). Forgive my lack of knowledge to quote the references but I came across a hadith, which says that the Prophet Muhammad :saw2: said a man may be doing the deeds of that of the people of Jannah until he is only a few steps away from it and then he does something that he becomes one of the people of the hell fire. Vice versa a man very near to Hell also can become one of the people of the Jannah. So we must not judge and conclude things we don't have the capability to. But we must not take from among them intimate friends and hate them for their deviance and disobedience towards the Great Creator. We should all study the seerah of the prophet and try to understand how Islam should be established. We must not go to extents such as so that we disregard other important facts of the Manhaj so as to establish the other. Dawah is the foremost in Manhaj, so while doing it it is very obvious that we have to maintain a just behavior. But we must maintain and adhere to all other aspects of the Manhaj. Hikmah is what we all should use and try to see a bigger picture rather than concentrating on a small piece of the problem.

 

[arzafar]

the point is why should i or anybody else follow the opinion of the average muslims when clearly all the salaf and all the righteous scholars say otherwise.

being just to others doesnt mean that one forgets being just to the creator and turns a blind a eye to those who join partners with Him in worship. How can a muslim like/love such people? disliking is not the same as being unjust or even arrogant.

 

[hayat84]

hey brothers,don't get angry.on the other hand it also is obvious that everybody knows that Islam is truth,but they don't accept it.some ones are so blind,that they obey to what a man says to do,my thought is that it is the best thing to show the way to Islam,even if it is firstly traumathic.when my husband showed me the way to Islam,I lost my faith in what it was untruthful and I accepted Islam as the only one right religion.if everybody knew that Islam is the right way,at this time there would have been the peace in the world.If a man of church claims to have a closer contact to the Creator,let me say that he's following shaytan's way.Allah knows

 

[JenGiove]

Salaam,

Here is the entire Fatwah, in its entity. It seems that when it was posted earlier, the last paragraph was accidentally not posted. I have highlighted that portion.

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/9057

Mocking innovators​

I know that mocking the Sunnah or any part of Islam makes a person a kaafir. But what if someone mocks the beliefs of people of bid'ah? For example, a person jokes to his friend when it's time for salaat to make fun of the Murji'ah : "Oh, we don't have to pray...it's in your heart, remember?" but he prays, understanding that it was a joke to show the riduculousness of the Murji'ah beliefs. I know that false talk is a sin, even in joking, but is this (above example) kufr akbar because the joke involves a major part of Islam, although it was aimed at bidah and not Islam?.

Praise be to Allaah.

Mocking the kaafirs for their kufr or the innovators for their innovations (bid’ah) is permissible because they enjoy no sanctity or protection with regard to their sin and evildoing in which they regard as permissible that which Allaah and Islam have forbidden. But this is only so long as the mocking does not go beyond the framework of dignity and truth, and it is not taken as a usual habit, and the jokes do not outweigh one's seriousness. But what we are warning against has become the habit of many people.


If one is to mock them, it should be for their going against the Sunnah, not for their different ways of dressing, walking, etc.


But is it a sin?


The correct view is that it is not a sin, rather this is something that it is permissible to talk about and joke about. The fact that the sin that we are mocking does not constitute kufr that puts a person beyond the pale of Islam makes it even more appropriate to joke about their sin, because by forsaking the truth and following falsehood, they have mocked the sanctity of Allaah.


Al-Laalkaani narrated, with isnaads, some reports from some of the salaf concerning such cases:


- He narrated from al-A’mash that Ibraaheem said: “There is no gheebah [backbiting] concerning one who follows bid’ah.”


- He narrated that al-Hasan al-Basri said: “There are three who have no protection from gheebah, one of whom is the one who follows bid’ah and is extreme in his bid’ah.”


- He narrated from Hishaam that al-Hasan said: “There is no gheebah in the case of one who follows bid’ah and one who commits evil.”


- He narrated that al-Hasan said: “There is no gheebah in the case of the people of bid’ah.”


- He narrated that Katheer Abu Sahl said: “It is said that there is no sanctity for the people who follow their whims and desires.”


(I’tiqaad Ahl al-Sunnah, 1/140).

The example which is mentioned in the question, which is, “Oh, we don’t have to pray, it’s in your heart, remember?” is not kufr because the one who says it does not intend to mock the prayer, rather he intends to mock these words that go against sharee’ah, and to show that they are false.​

The point is that making fun of something that the innovators say is not haraam and does not constitute kufr.


But we do not encourage denouncing the innovators by mocking them; rather we should debate with them in the way that is best. Your concern when debating with them should be to guide them to the Straight Path. Allaah said to Moosa and Haroon when He sent them to Pharaoh (interpretation of the meaning):

“And speak to him mildly, perhaps he may accept admonition or fear (Allaah)”

[Ta-Ha 20:44]


And Allaah knows best.

 

[MohammedMaksudul]

:salam2:

Brother arzafar pardon my inability to explain myself properly. I never said that we should love and not dislike or hate the mushrikeen nor am I asking anybody or you to follow the opinion of average muslims. I never said that disliking is a part of arrogance or it any way means that. I just wanted you to see how the Prophet Muhammad :saw2: himself dealt in this kind of situations. There can not be anybody better than him who established Al - Wala - Al - Bara (Love for the Sake of Allah and His Rasul :saw2: and Hate for the sake of Allah and His Rasul :saw2 I am not disagreeing with the scholars at all, I just wanted to say that we have to use hikmah to spread Allah's word. I am not saying that now we have to love them to give them dawah. InshAllah, I tried my best to explain and May Allah forgive me my shortcomings and Allah Alone Knows Best.

 

[MohammedMaksudul]

Alhamdulillah,

The Sheikh above has said what I wanted to say in a very precise and clear statement

"The point is that making fun of something that the innovators say is not haraam and does not constitute kufr.


But we do not encourage denouncing the innovators by mocking them; rather we should debate with them in the way that is best. Your concern when debating with them should be to guide them to the Straight Path. Allaah said to Moosa and Haroon when He sent them to Pharaoh (interpretation of the meaning):

“And speak to him mildly, perhaps he may accept admonition or fear (Allaah)”

[Ta-Ha 20:44]


And Allaah knows best.:

 

[arzafar]

Alhamdulillah,

The Sheikh above has said what I wanted to say in a very precise and clear statement

brother i should have made clear. i was talking about kaafirs specifically Christians priests. i want referring innovators in my previous post.
innovators do pray five times a day although they mess up islam.