Why do Muslims leave the land of Land Muslims to come to land of Non muslims

Discussion in 'TurnToIslam Lounge !' started by lostlilly07, Dec 31, 2007.

  1. Shahzad
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    Shahzad Junior Member

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    @sister shaheedah.. if duniya is that bad .. then threre would not have been duniya first in that "Rabban atina fid-duniya hasanah...."

    duniya is bad only when it takes u away from ALLAH.

    i never mean to offend u but this is the statement which i have heard from a very pios person of the time.
  2. abdellah007
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    abdellah007 Junior Member

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    assalam alaykum

    assalam alaykum brothers and sisters.

    i am from Morocco,12 klm from europe, it s a beautiful country where the main dream of many youth is to pass to europe. many tried by boats, sticking in transportation vehicules , looking for marriage even with an old eauropean lady etc etc. and the main reasons behind all this is poverty , jobless, and the idea of absence of full right laws here. so many have passed to europe to have paradise they always dreamt about. but they face the hardship of living in europe. they re not so welcomed there. some europeans re using them for work with no rights, bcos they know they have to work to gain for living. but not forgetting those who went to live in europe then becoming a practicing muslims due to the differences they realise between becoming a muslim, not pricticing muslim and kafir. Nowdays some Moroccans are wishing to be back to Morocco, a beautiful land where you would find alot of beautiful things.

    so leaving the muslim land has nothing to do with DEEN but money and dreams to get a better life.
  3. hager
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    hager Junior Member

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    well

    well,sister
    i'll tell u..
    u know..now..the world become as small village..internet..so on...
    in muslims..country..
    everything start..to enter..in it
    internet..
    television...national chancels..universal...so on

    muslims..start to atrract...to west cities..."amercia...canda..so on"
    specailly "Amercia"
    they calle dit the country of freedom

    muslims..teens here..feel they're captured...in islamic country
    cuz,they see"girlfriend,boyfriend,go out,friendship with opposite sex,d.J party,nightclubs,kiss,hugs,SEX..."
    so on..
    and these stuff not allowed in islam....that's a reason..they want to leave islamic country

    u know...once m computer doesn't work well
    i go to net cafe..cuz,i was haiving project with E.F.A
    and i need computer..
    i go..i dunno..what's the first word..in the site..that i supposed to send my project through it

    it was start BY"S"
    i see///the history of the website...that users..of net cafe..open it
    I find all of it,being with S
    Sex photo
    Sex types..
    So on..i get a shock..i leave the computer...i go to another one..i find the same...
    i change it...
    but the fifth one was pure..from sex..so on..

    that's part from what i notice here..in islamic country


    the other reason
    MONEY....
    teens wanst money...so fast..they could do anything to earn it
    they didn't want get tired,to earn it
    so,they choose....To travel to Amercia..so on...

    i was one of them...before...i want to travel.have money.....but when i think deeply
    i decide to move to Dubai..after school so on..or Suadi arabia...Incha allah
  4. dunno
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    dunno Junior Member

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    its bit different in suadi people here dont go to US or other westren countrys often unless its coz of health of education speically after 9/11 personally i would never leave my country
  5. amy
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    amy Junior Member

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    I think alot of people move away to make a better life for them and there families, especially the countries where there is war! I was born in England but i know if i had the opportunity to make a better life for myself and family then i would go!! :tti_sister:
  6. a_brother
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    a_brother Make dua for us all

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    :salam2:

    in most of muslim countries, governments are corrupted. the wealthier eats the money of the poor. no freedom of speech, no open market.

    when a person go to a non muslim country, saves some money and comes back to him homeland for a vacation, he starts to show-off with the money that he worked soooo hard for to save (may be a whole 2years of hard work collecting garbage or what ever) to go back to his homeland and start lying to his friends so he may not look bad in front of his family... now others would try to do like this guy, and when they succeed getting to the other country...oooops, where is all that money that we were told about...they start working hard and going back to their country for a vacation to show off and lie so they would not look bad...and the same cycle goes on and on and on and on...

    in wester life (ie america) there is no life if you compare it to many other countries (ie morocco). in america, people work and work and work to be EVEN with bills etc...

    now many people are going back to their country to have a life...

    at the end, if a person have knowledge of islam and iman, living in a muslim world is great, knowing that Allah is the provider and protector. at the same time, i think, even in a non muslim country but at place where there are many good muslims, one can build a family and live a good life if he likes wester life better (fast passed life)

    i think that as long as a person can practice his religion freely at a certain place and likes the life style of that place, then let it be
  7. Libinette
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    Libinette Umm Zubayr

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    Salaam,

    Wherever you may live in this westnesn world..it doesn't equal a muslim* (i'm talking about a real, muslim country here) country, and it will never...not so long ago, i went to a lecture done by a Canadian Muslima, she used to live in canada..that's where she embraced Islam, she got divored and she had 4 children i think..she was telling us about how she had evrything she wanted, evrything she asked for she had it. and she made hijra..to Hargeisa ( a town in Somalia)..she married a guy from there and started her new life..although the conditions were severe..especially when compared to her previous life..she never felt so happy and complete as a Muslima.. she opened a school for orphans girls..:mashallah: her story was just soo interesting..for us youths..

    Your imaan, however strong..is not the same in a muslim land and in a kuffar land.. it can't be!!
    A country, where you hear the athaan 5 times a day, where masjiid are full, where dikr never ends, where modesty and respect are part of everyday life, where you don't bump on *** poeple while you're walking with your family...you know..but..where is this country exactely? Does it even exist?
  8. TheHumbleWun
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    TheHumbleWun Banned

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    Salaam,

    It doesn't necessarily have to be land, it can be this virtual world - TTI - you have many sites (sort of like Muslim & non-Muslim countries) but you have Muslims & non-Muslims infesting TTI (sort of like a Muslim country).

    With this analogy, we can say that the light of Allah swt is a pulling magnet to all kinds of people.
  9. hassan usmani
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    hassan usmani New Member

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    salam o alikum
    yes there are few cases that some muslims wants to live in non muslim countries.the main thing is that they are not truly muslims they do not know the true mean of islam.they came there for jobs and education and also acept
    thier life style but we must remember one thing that it is not against islmaic law(shriyet)
  10. lostlilly07
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    lostlilly07 striving 4 Firadous

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    okay first of all

    wa alaikum salaam

    second of all so what you are trying to say it is better to have children brainwashed by the kuffarism, have my daughter depress because beauty taught by american society is wearing minni skirts and fake hair and size zero. and no matter how many times a parent tells or teaches there children if all they see around them is opposite happen. So you also trying to tell me that it is better for me to whereever i go to be consistenly sterotyped and label. At least in Muslim country, I can get a job because I deserved it and because they want to exploit because I am black muslim.....I am speaking of affirmative action mixed with minority rights...I am will always be a muslim. So you are trying to tell me,

    Look I am just trying to make Life easier and better for the next generation that comes after me and I can't have my children living in this corrupt society who treats it own ppl like second class citizens, kills them, all in the name dollar bill.

    And you talk about speaking freely........please I am not sure where you from but just about every cellphone line, houseline and soon to be computer line is tap. They hear everything I say and what you say. Please let me slip up and say the wrong thing and I could all of sudden be dead.

    What countries are you referring too that if you go to fajr prayer with a beard you can be jailed?
  11. lostlilly07
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    lostlilly07 striving 4 Firadous

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    Can I get some proof of this that it is not against shariah law... I hear some saying is againist shariah law of you are able and have th money and some saying you can stay.
  12. Mrmuslim
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    Mrmuslim Smile you are @ TTI Staff Member

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    salaam alikom


    Well, the Muslim countries treate Muslim worse, why do you think when some one get arrested in western countries they send them for tortour in so called Muslim countries? think about it !

    Everything is tapped but you havent been taken to jail for speaking freely, go head and try it in so called Muslim countries, people live here in U.S or western countries and think that all Muslim countries are so nice and the enviroment is so ISLAMIC that they want to move there.. ( I am not agaisnt moving to Muslim countries if the means are avilable)

    but its not better than western countries,if u find good job and can move then go head for sure its better but its not as paradise as people think ![/COLOR]


    [/QUOTE]

    When I said that it dosnt mean just because you go to fajer prayer you will be arrested, you will be under watch, if you say anything against the gov. you will be gone. if you try to work in Dawah they will be watching you , like Egypt, Syria, Jordan, and many more.


    the prophet peace be up on him said . Afterwards there will be a hereditary leadership which will remain for as long as Allah wills, then He will lift it if He wishes. Afterwards, there will be biting oppression, and it will last for as long as Allah wishes, then He will lift it if He wishes.

    there isnt any islamic Government now days, who respect huamn being or even admit to something called human rights!

    Wa salaam alikom
  13. dna1987
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    dna1987 Muslim Guy

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    Salam alaikum.
    To the thread title question:
    Because often, it's much easier to practice your Islam in a place like New Zealand than it is in 'Muslim' countries where the government is corrupt; and the average muslim person in the street is not someone you are safe from..
  14. lostlilly07
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    lostlilly07 striving 4 Firadous

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    well I guess someone of you all did give some valid points and I apologize if seem like I was attacking anyone....I will admit I have been looking at the U.K. London.....more lately but still considering Yeman or Kuwait as well. I guess I just need to do more research and ask Allah to guide me
  15. Shahzad
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    Shahzad Junior Member

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    guys, stay chill.. the rule of thumb is that u can go and live in non-muslim countries. You will need to work hard for ur emaan there.

    Offcourse, every place has its ground realities which you have to face when you go there.
  16. croatian/jewconv
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    croatian/jewconv slave_of_Allah

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    the front to spread islam is not in the middle east ......the front to spread islam is here
    in the west.
    this is my land...canada.
    i was born here and if Allaah(sws) wills i will die here.
    i would never go to live in muslim country....
    Allaah(swt) made canada just like he made saudi arabia
    and inshaalllaah some day Canada will be Muslim just like He, Most exalted made saudi arabia




    ------
    insha'alllaah Ar-rahman will make all the muslims in the west stout in faith and we wont crumble to the dirty kafirs

    ameen
  17. lostlilly07
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    lostlilly07 striving 4 Firadous

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    wa alaikum salaam

    I guess I would have to agree with this statement, I mean no place in this world is going to be a Utopia but I just hate being subjected to all the doubled racism I received on a daily basis and I just want a better life for my unborn children. But this world is only a pit stop untill we all reached that final resting spot....which I pray will be Jannah. I just really hate this country, I guess I feel that way cuz it seems like other societies treat their people so much better like in U.K. mainly. London just sounds like a beautiful place to live but it could be the exact opposite.
  18. abou haytam
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    abou haytam Junior Member

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    salam o alikom

    many posts come up with interessting question and opinion. i find this fatwa very close to all your point of view. Read it plz and i hope it resume all what is said in the thread.


    Can Muslims settle in kaafir countries for the sake of a better life?

    Question:

    I live in a western country, and I can practice my religion without much difficulty, praise be to Allaah. I have seen on your site some ahaadeeth of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) which forbid Muslims to settle in kaafir lands or to live among the kuffaar. I am now confused about whether to go back to my country or to stay in this country, knowing that if I go back to my country, I will encounter hardship and persecution because of my adherence to the laws of Allaah, and I will not be able to find freedom of worship such as I enjoy in the country where I live now.
    I hope that you can answer my question and explain the ruling on my staying in this country, especially since the Muslim countries are no longer very different from others with regard to adherence to the laws of Islam.

    Answer:

    Praise be to Allaah.

    The basic principle is that it is not permissible for the Muslim to settle among the mushrikeen. This is indicated by evidence from the Qur’aan and Sunnah, and on the basis of common sense.

    In the Qur’aan, Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “Verily, as for those whom the angels take (in death) while they are wronging themselves (as they stayed among the disbelievers even though emigration was obligatory for them), they (angels) say (to them): “In what (condition) were you?” They reply: “We were weak and oppressed on the earth.” They (angels) say: “Was not the earth of Allaah spacious enough for you to emigrate therein?” Such men will find their abode in Hell — what an evil destination!”

    [al-Nisa’ 4:97]

    In the Sunnah, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I disown every Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen.” Narrated by Abu Dawood, 2645; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

    With regard to common sense, the Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen cannot carry out many of the rituals and visible acts of worship of Islam, in addition to the fact that he is exposing himself to temptation because of the permissiveness in those countries that is protected by their laws. The Muslim should not expose himself to temptations and trials.

    This is if we look at the evidence of the Qur’aan and Sunnah without paying attention to what is really happening in Muslim countries and kaafir countries. But if we look at what is really happening in Muslim countries, we cannot agree with the questioner when he says, “Especially since the Muslim countries are no longer very different from others with regard to adherence to the laws of Islam.” But this generalization is not correct. The Muslim countries are not all the same with regard to how closely or otherwise they adhere to the laws of Islam. Rather they vary in that, and even within one country, regions and cities may vary in that regard.

    Similarly the kaafir countries are not all the same with regard to their permissiveness and moral laxity; they also vary in that regard.

    So given that the Muslim countries vary, as do the kaafir countries, and given that the Muslim cannot go to a Muslim state and settle there because of visa and strict settlement laws etc, and that a Muslim may not be able to practice his religion in some Muslim countries, when he may be able to do so in whole or at least in part in some kaafir countries – for all these reasons it is impossible to issue a general ruling that will cover all countries and all individuals. Rather we should say that each Muslim has his own unique set of circumstances and his own ruling that applies to him, and each person is accountable for himself. If he is able to practise his religion in the Muslim country in which he lives more than he can in a kaafir country, then it is not permissible for him to settle in a kaafir country. But if it is the other way round, then it is permissible for him to settle in a kaafir country, subject to the condition that he is confident that he can resist the desires and temptations to be found there by taking the precautionary measures prescribed in sharee’ah.

    There follow some comments of the scholars which support what we have said above:

    Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked about this matter and he said: This is one of the most difficult issues nowadays because countries vary, as stated above, and because for some Muslims, if they go back to their homelands they will be persecuted for their religion whereas they are safe from that in the kaafir countries. But if we say that it is haraam for them to settle among the kuffaar, then where is the Islamic state that will accept them and allow them to settle there?! This is the meaning of what he said, may Allaah have mercy on him.

    Zakariya al-Ansaari al-Shaafa’i said in his book Asna al-Mataalib (4/207):

    It is obligatory to migrate from the kaafir lands to the Muslim lands for those who are able to do that, if they are unable to practise their religion openly.

    Ibn al-‘Arabi al-Maaliki said: Hijrah (migration) means leaving dar al-harb [non-Muslim lands] and going to dar al-islam [Muslim lands]. This was obligatory at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and remains so after his time for those who fear for their lives. From Nayl al-Awtaar, 8/33, by al-Shawkaani.

    Al-Haafiz Ibn Hajar said concerning the hadeeth, “I disown every Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen”:

    This is to be understood as referring to those who are not safe to practise their religion there
    . Fath al-Baari, commentary on hadeeth no. 2825

    In al-Mawsoo’ah al-Fiqhiyyah (20/206) it says:

    Dar al-harb refers to every place in which the rule of kufr prevails. One of the rulings that have to do with dar al-harb is hijrah (migration). With regard to migration from dar al-harb, the fuqaha’ divided people into three categories:

    (a) Those who are obliged to migrate: they are those who are able to migrate and who cannot practise their religion openly in dar al-harb. It is obligatory upon a female even if she does not have a mahram, if she thinks she will be safe when travelling, or if the risk of travelling is less than the risk of staying in dar al-harb…

    (b) Those who are not obliged to migrate: they are those who are unable to do so, either because of sickness or because they are forced to stay in the kaafir land, or those who are weak, such as woman and children, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “Except the weak ones among men, women and children who cannot devise a plan, nor are they able to direct their way”

    [al-Nisa’ 4:98]

    (c) Those for whom migration is mustahabb but not obligatory: they include those who are able to migrate but are also able to practise their religion openly in dar al-harb. It is mustahabb for such a person to migrate so that he can participate in jihad and increase the numbers of the Muslims.

    In a fatwa issued by the Standing Committee (12/50): One may also migrate from a mushrik land to another mushrik land that is less evil and where there is less danger to the Muslim, as some of the Muslims migrated from Makkah at the Prophet’s command to Abyssinia.

    We ask Allaah to set the Muslims’ affairs straight.

    Islam Q&A
  19. Bluegazer
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    Bluegazer Junior Member

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    Assalamu Alaikum brother abou haytam,


    Thank you for posting this fatwa [religious opinion]. If one reads all of it very carefully, it will -God willing- be of great benefit.


    The source of the fatwa is the following website:

    http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ln=eng&QR=13363


    Best regards,

    Bluegazer

    Wassalamu Alaikum
  20. lostlilly07
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    lostlilly07 striving 4 Firadous

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    Jazkallah khairn

    for posting the source that was about to be my next question.

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