Brief Documentary on Usury & it's harms

BrotherInIslam7

La Illaha Illa Allah
Staff member
Salaamalaykum waa rahmatullahi,

I came across a good brief documentary made by an UK muslim, Tariq El Diwany on Usury titled 'Why are we all in debt'. Some of the topics briefly covered are :-

- Historical beginning of Usury in England
- Market Capitalism - A religion on it's own
- Devaluation of Britain's money
- Switch to paper money to facilitate Usury
- Artificial money Creation by banks
- Debt resulting from economy based on Usury
- Implications of Debt on 3rd world countries
- The need to change to an Islamic monetary system

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Tabassum07

Smile for Allah
:salam2:

Jazak Allahu Khayr for posting this beneficial series. I've recently been reading a lot about how the banking system is never a solution - its responsible for collapsing the system from within.

May Allah give success to the Islamic bankers who are trying to reach the perfect solution. Islamic banking is perfect, however, when they have to deal with the IMF, World Bank and other entities controlling the monies these days, they too have to deal with an interest-focused system, which is why we aren't seeing the perfect results. These days with the economic downturn, we see how flawed the interest system is. Islam is the perfect solution for life - how they fight it!

Again, jazak Allahu Khayr for posting, akhi. I was actually looking for some article or video which explained the history of money along with the faults of interest and a focus of how Islamic banking is the solution. Alhamdulillah, I found it here.
 

BrotherInIslam7

La Illaha Illa Allah
Staff member
:salam2:

The fact that the UK monarch devalued the asset backed currency to such a degree that the paper money is worth nothing now if the market goes cuckoo is astonishing. I don't know how the common people in Britain and other countries let the govt/monarch do that !

I liked the part in the series where the man sitting in the mosque said that a silver coin bought a chicken 1400 years back and still does ( 0% inflation ). Alhamdulillah our deen has solutions to all the problems of this world including monetary problems.

Waa Iyyaki sister.. If you find something beneficial on the web regarding this, it would be great if you shared on TTI as I would like to learn more about this as well InshaAllah.
 

alf2

Islam is a way of life
This was so interesting. I watched half last night and half today.
Its actually made me not want a bank account anymore..0_0

My favorite part was also when the man in the Mosque showed the Dinars, I was like..wow, THAT is impressive xD
 

Tabassum07

Smile for Allah
:wasalam:

Well, I have come across a good article which detailed how the banking system turned from individual money lenders to bankers profiteering from wars and accumulating more and more of the world's money supply, eventually reaching up until the present-day scenario where we have banks controlled by globalized institutions and markets. It detailed how most of the wars fought in the world over the past three hundred years were profiting the banks most of all, which is why they actually love chaos. The article also shows that what the governments and the monarchs did to take money away from the people and slowly devalue the system was so that the rich and bank-owners could profit from all of these things - and that everything has been deliberate to make the poor poorer and the rich richer.

However, the article is heavily focused on the Zionist propaganda as well, and I know you don't buy into that, brother. So I'll put the link in here, and you may decide whether you read it or not.

http://www.pakalertpress.com/2010/0...-happened-to-the-planet-without-reading-this/

If you only want to read the part that relates to banking, I highlighted the parts of the article in red that only deal with the banking history, and its attached with this post. So you can just read the parts in red, and ignore the rest, InshaAllah.
 

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strive-may-i

Junior Member
From: http://www.alastairmcintosh.com/articles/1998_usury.htm

See the PDF for the complete version.

In abridged version below, the sections colored only heading is retained.
History of Usury Prohibition
A Short Review of the Historical Critique of Usury

Wayne A.M. Visser and Alastair McIntosh
[SUP]Centre for Human Ecology[/SUP]

[SUP]First published in Accounting, Business & Financial History, 8:2, Routledge, London, July 1998, pp. 175-189.[/SUP]

[SUP]Abstract[/SUP]
Usury - lending at interest or excessive interest - has, according to known records, been practiced in various parts of the world for at least four thousand years. During this time, there is substantial evidence of intense criticisism by various traditions, institutions and social reformers on moral, ethical, religious and legal grounds. The rationale employed by these wide-ranging critics have included arguments about work ethic, social justice, economic instability, ecological destruction and inter-generational equity. While the contemporary relevance of these largely historical debates are not analysed in detail, the authors contend that their significance is greater than ever before in the context of the modern interest-based global economy.

Keywords: usury, interest, debt, discounting, Islamic banking


INTRODUCTION

The concept of “usury” has a long historical life, throughout most of which it has been understood to refer to the practice of charging financial interest in excess of the principle amount of a loan, although in some instances and more especially in more recent times, it has been interpreted as interest above the legal or socially acceptable ratehttp://www.alastairmcintosh.com/articles/1998_usury.htm#_edn1. Accepting this broad definition for the moment, the practice of usury can be traced back approximately four thousand years (Jain, 1929), and during its subsequent history it has been repeatedly condemned, prohibited, scorned and restricted, mainly on moral, ethical, religious and legal grounds. Among its most visible and vocal critics have been the religious institutions of Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Islam and Christianity. To this list may be added ancient Western philosophers and politicians, as well as various modern socio-economic reformers. It is the objective of this paper to outline briefly the history of this critique of usury, to examine reasons for its repeated denouncement and, finally, to intuitively assess the relevance of these arguments to today’s predominantly interest-based global economy. The scope will not extend to a full exploration of some of the proposed modern alternatives to usury, except to describe the growing practice of Islamic banking as an example.

HISTORY OF THE CRITIQUE OF USURY

Usury in Hinduism and Buddhism [Refer PDF or Site]
Usury in Ancient Western Political Philosophy
[Refer PDF or Site]
Usury in Judaism
[Refer PDF or Site]
Usury in Christianity
[Refer PDF or Site]
Usury in Modern Reformist Thinking
[Refer PDF or Site]Usury in Islam
The criticism of usury in Islam was well established during the Prophet Mohammed's life and reinforced by various of his teachings in the Holy Quran[ii] dating back to around 600 AD. The original word used for usury in this text was riba which literally means “excess or addition”. This was accepted to refer directly to interest on loans so that, according to Islamic economists Choudhury and Malik (1992), by the time of Caliph Ulmar, the prohibition of interest was a well established working principle integrated into the Islamic economic system. It is not true that this interpretation of usury has been universally accepted or applied in the Islamic world. Indeed, a school of Islamic thought which emerged in the 19th Century, led by Sir Sayyed, still argues for a interpretative differentiation between usury, which it is claimed refers to consumptional lending, and interest which they say refers to lending for commercial investment (Ahmed, 1958). Nevertheless, there does seem to be evidence in modern times for what Choudhury and Malik describe as “a gradual evolution of the institutions of interest-free financial enterprises across the world” (1992: 104). They cite, for instance, the current existence of financial institutions in Iran, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, the Dar-al-Mal-al-Islami in Geneva and Islamic trust companies in North America. This growing practice of Islamic banking will be discussed more fully in a later section as a modern application of usury prohibition.


RATIONALE FOR THE CRITIQUE OF USURY


Throughout the history of the criticism of usury, various reasons and rationale have been forwarded in support of this position. While some are unique to particular traditions or individuals, many tread on common ground which this section will briefly attempt to synthesise.
Usury as Unearned Income[Refer PDF or Site]
Usury as Double Billing
[Refer PDF or Site]
Usury as Exploitation of the Needy
[Refer PDF or Site]
Usury as a Mechanism of Inequitable Redistribution of Wealth
[Refer PDF or Site]
Usury as an Agent of Economic Instability
[Refer PDF or Site]
Usury as Discounting the Future
[Refer PDF or Site]


A MODERN APPLICATION OF USURY PROHIBITION

Islamic Banking
A previous section on Islamic prohibition of usury made mention of the rejection by Islam of financial interest or riba, largely on the grounds of its negative distributive justice and equity effects (Khan, 1986). Out of this prohibition has developed perhaps the most sophisticated and complete theoretical systems of interest-free political economy in the world (Chouhury & Malik, 1992).

The specific methods for implementing Islamic banking have centred around financial equity based approaches, most notably Mudarabah - a joint venture between the bank and a ‘partner’ with both contributing to the capital of the project and sharing the profit or loss - and Musharakah - in which all the capital for an investment is provided by the bank in return for a predetermined share of the profit or loss of the business undertaking (Kahn & Mirakhor, 1986).

The first modern Islamic bank was established in the 1960s in Egypt (The Banker, 1989) and in the ensuing three decades, Islamic banking has grown into an industry with $80 billion in deposits and 100 banks and finance houses (Khalaf, 1995). Much of this growth has been as a result of the comprehensive attempts by Iran, Pakistan and Sudan over past 10 years to restructure their national banking systems to bring them into accordance with Islamic law of the Shari’ah (Aftab, 1986; The Economist, 1992a). In addition, increasing numbers of banks outside these countries, including in Western countries, have begun to offer parallel Islamic banking services (O’Brien & Palmer, 1993). As recently as 1996, the UK joined these latter ranks, with Flemmings Merchant Bank (1996) offering the first Islamic banking service, the Oasis Fund, to British customers.

The claimed advantages of the Islamic banking approach to finance are that it results in: more just and equitable distribution of resources; more responsible and profitable lending due to the necessarily closer bank-client relationship; less volatile business cycles; and more stable banking systems (Taylor & Evans, 1987); as well as “the relative efficiency of the interest-free money system over the alternative interest-based system” (Darrat, 1988). On the other hand, the Islamic banking industry has been criticised on a number of counts too: for its lack of uniformity and standardisation of products, accounting systems and endorsements by different sharia boards (Khalaf op.cit); various bad-debt complications (Shreeve, 1988); the information-gathering burden on potential consumers and banks themselves to ensure the security and profitability of their funds, as well the lack of an interest-rate mechanism to use as a macro-economic tool (The Economist, 1992b). However, these limitations must be viewed against the backdrop of Islamic banking as a young and innovative growth market.

CONCLUSION: The preceding paper has attempted to briefly describe the extensive history of the critique of usury, and to crystallise and synthesise the main tenants of the arguments used in support of this position. The fact that we live in a global economic system which is more usurious/interest-based than ever before begs the question, therefore: Are any of these criticisms of the past either serious and convincing enough or currently relevant enough to merit a legitimate challenge to the status quo? In the authors’ opinon, every one of the reasons cited in the critique of usury, perhaps with the exception of “double billing”, seems more pressing and relevant now than ever. In particular, it is the belief of the authors’ that individuals or organisations in the West with money to invest, especially those which like to consider themselves as being ethical, might have rather more to learn from Islam than is generally acknowledged. But first, society needs to be re-conscientised to the relevance of the age-old usury debate in modern times.

POSTSCRIPT ON THE CREDIT CRUNCH, 2009[Refer PDF or Site]

Alastair McIntosh & Wayne Visser
Added to the online version of this paper, January 2009
[SUP]Wayne A.M. Visser is the Manager of the Environmental Consulting Unit in KPMG’s South African Office and a Fellow of Edinburgh’s Centre for Human Ecology.[/SUP]
[SUP]Alastair McIntosh is a Fellow of Edinburgh’s Centre for Human Ecology.[/SUP]

Endnotes
http://www.alastairmcintosh.com/articles/1998_usury.htm#_ednref1 Hence, “usury” and “interest” have been used interchangeably in this paper, except where interpretative difference occured historically, in which instance the relevant distinction will be made explicit. Also, “interest” has been taken to refer to any real rate after inflation, bad-debt provision and administrative costs.
[ii] Most notable of these is Surah 2 verses 188, 274-280; Surah 3 verse 130; Surah 4 verses 29, 161; Surah 9 verses 34-35, 43; Surah 30 verse 39.
[iii] Exodus 22:24-25; Leviticus 25:35-37; Deuteronomy 23:19-21; Ezekiel 18: 20; Proverbs 28:8; Psalms 15:5; Nehemiah 5:7.
[iv] I Samuel 22:2; II Kings 4:1; Isiah 50:1.
[v] For more first-hand detailed insight into the theological debate on usury, especially during the 16th and 17th Centuries, some republished original texts from that period include: Blaxton (1974), Culpepper (1974), Fenton (1975), Smith (1975) and Wilson (1925).
[vi] Luke 6: 34.
[vii] Whilst opinions differ on the correctness of doing so differ, the authors have presumed God and Allah to represent the same divine principle though expressed differently in the understanding of respective faiths.

Internet Users Please Note: The above material is original text as submitted to the publication stated beneath the title. As the editing process means that some parts may have been cut, altered or corrected after it left my hands, or I might have made minor subsequent amendments, please specify in citation “internet version from www.AlastairMcIntosh.com as well as citing the place of first publication. Note that author particulars, including contact address(es) and organisational affiliations may have changed since first publication.

This material is © Alastair McIntosh and/or first publishers. However (and without prejudice to any legal rights of the original or subsequent publishers), I give my permission for it to be freely copied for non-commercial educational purposes provided that due acknowledgement is given. Please advise of any uses that might particularly interest me. For commercial enquires, please contact original publishers and/or email me,[email protected]. Thanks, folks, and enjoy, enjoy, enjoy!
Date: 03/12/10



 

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strive-may-i

Junior Member
introduction of Usury and destruction of belief and values in human society

Usury: introduction of usury has gone hand in hand with the destruction of belief and values in human society

When we do look, an interesting picture emerges which as Muslims we would in fact expect to see, and that is that the introduction of usury has gone hand in hand with the destruction of belief and values in human society.
As I said, usury, being against the law of Allah, was as forbidden to the Jews and Christians as it is for the Muslims. There are specific texts forbidding it in the Torah from the time of Moses and it was among the things that the Christians accepted when they chopped and changed the teaching of Jesus, peace be upon him. However, the Jews found or invented a loophole and came up with a text permitting them to practise usury as a weapon against their enemies, because as can be seen from the situation today, usury is the way that a very few people can get power over a great many. Anyway, throughout the centuries Jews used it as a way of getting their own back against the Christians, who persecuted them. However, in spite of the fact that they did get very rich, they were hated and despised for it. In the 12th century, the handful of English Jews were so rich that they paid ) of the tax collected in the whole century, but shortly afterwards it came back at them and those who were not killed by the people were expelled from the country, not to return as we shall later see for 350 years.
So that was the situation as far as usury was concerned. There were a few money lenders because people in difficult circumstances will always need to borrow money, but it was on a very limited scale and those who did it were hated and reviled because it was known that what they did was cursed and against Divine Law. The worst possible insult you could give anyone in that society was to call them a usurer. Whereas now people might call one a terrorist or even an Islamic fundamentalist, then they would call them a 'usurer'!
This remained the situation until the 16th century when something took place which completely changed the way usury was regarded and allowed what has happened to happen. What occurred in known as the 'Reformation'.
In Germany, Martin Luther decided, with some justification, that the Roman Catholic Church had become totally corrupt. He felt that the Church, rather than acting as a bridge between human beings and God, prevented them having access to God, Accordingly he separated himself from Rome and created the Protestant Church. However, by doing this he threw out the baby with the bath water because by doing it, he rejected canon law which was the way that what was left of the Shari'ah in Christianity could take effect in society. It is a bit like someone saying we must return to the pure sources of the Kitab wa Sunnah and at the same time throwing out all the fiqh which goes with them.
The actual results of what he did was (1) that religion stopped being something which involved every aspect of people's lives in a tangible way and became a private matter between the individual and his Lord and (2) that it was now possible for anyone to decide whether something was right or wrong.
Following on from what Luther had done, Calvin founded a theocratic state in Geneva and this brings us right back to usury. He, in the name of religion, passed an edict which for the first time permitted the practice of usury, arguing that the commercial situation was so changed that it had become necessary. The fact that he hedged it round with strict conditions made no difference. Unscrupulous businessmen pounced on it with glee. Usury was now permissible and would soon even be respectable. The issue now became not whether usury was permitted or not, but how much? In one stroke, the whole economic edifice was changed.
There was, of course, considerable resistance and a valiant rearguard action was fought which lasted for nearly a century, One Frenchman called Brodin put the case very succinctly. He said, 'Those who maintain under the cover of religion that moderate usury of 4 or 5% is just because the borrower gains as much as the lender go against the law of God which forbids usury absolutely and cannot be revoked.' However, he and those like him were unable to stem the flood which has continued unchecked to the present day.
As we have seen, it was a religious split which allowed usury to come in and since religion as the guardian of Divine Law was the enemy of usury, religion had to go or at least be made totally impotent before the usurers would have their way completely.
England was the arena where this process took place. Following the precedent of of Luther and Calvin, although in his case it was purely out of self-interest, and English King, Henry VIII, split with Rome and founded the Church of England. Until this time religion had constituted the final authority in all matters and everything else was subordinate to it. Henry joined together religion and the state in his own person amd by doing so put them on an equal footing.
Charles I wanted to restore religion to the place of supremacy but when he tried to do so, Oliver Cromwell fought him and the Civil War took place. It was a war between the traditional order and the new economic order represented by the middle classes. Cromwell defeated the King, had him executed and established the Commonwealth which was in fact the first secular state. In it religion was subservient to the state, a department in it. Cromwell had financed himself by loans from Dutch banks and one of the conditions was that the Jews were to be allowed back after 350 years to live in England again. Christianity and Judaism became for the first time equally acceptable religions under the state.
The monarchy was restored, but on a constitutional basis, and when was resented by James II, the final blow was struck. The bankers put in their own man and William of Orange was sent from Holland to be king of England. The usurers were now in control of the state which was in control of religion.
From this time on religion became increasingly irrelevant. It no longer wielded any real power at all. The usurers had won the day.


However, when Napoleon entered Egypt, an open wound was created in the heart of Islam and through it flowed the poison of usury into the bloodstream of Islam. Students were sent to Europe, the Suez Canal was built, and lo and behold a fatwah was issued making usury halal and the first banks were opened. Now, of course, the situation is such that the Muslims are as much in the power of the usurers as the Europeans or even more so.
The importance of this issue can be seen from the fact that the last ayats to be revealed in the Qur'an were about usury and the Messenger of Allah made a point of stressing it in the Final Khutbah on the Farewell Hajj and ordered us to cut off from it.

Relevant excerpts From:
http://www.missionislam.com/family/ursury_riba.htm
 

sultanb

Junior Member
Great thread. So that's where my sister got the story about a dinar can still buy the same thing as it was 1400years ago haha.

“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.” - Henry Ford

It does seem like the end of times where knowledge is out there, but we ignore it, feel helpless to go against it and unavoidable that we can only join to be a part of it.

Anyway, sort of related to banking, but more so to the aggressiveness of human nature in making a profit. The video is not complete, but you can read the whole article here

[video=youtube;o6cHJRPNtWI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6cHJRPNtWI[/video]
 

sultanb

Junior Member
Here's another good video, has a bit of a propaganda-ish and conspiracy theory feel to it, though.

[video=youtube;qCPxabSe_9E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCPxabSe_9E[/video]
 
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