No debate at all happened, I believe only a member replied and he said those with irja seems to be like non-Muslims, sadly MANY had no clue who the Murji'ah (those who are upon irja) were. But I am still waiting for the moderators to teach us since they deleted my thread because of the truth involved. Maybe someone deleted it because it was mentioned that there are todays "Salafi Scholars" who have irja, which is in fact true, and whoever denies it should provide proof.Did it just have a definition? Or did a heated debate ensue?
Please define Irja. I have googled it and as usual it failed me.
al-Bidaayah wan-Nihaayah of al-Haafith Ibn Katheer, vol. 10/276"I entered upon al-Ma`moon, so he said: 'How have you awoken oh Nidr?' So I said: 'In goodness, oh Ameer al-Mu`mineen'
He asked: 'What is irjaa`?' I replied: 'A religion that agrees with the Kings, they gain from the dunya with it, and lose from their religion'
So he said: 'You have spoken the truth'"
Wa alaykom salam warahmatollah wabarakatohAssalaam alaikum,
Why don't you teach. Why don't you provide links that will enlighten us. It is not the role of the moderators to teach.
"I entered upon al-Ma`moon, so he said: 'How have you awoken oh Nidr?' So I said: 'In goodness, oh Ameer al-Mu`mineen'
He asked: 'What is irjaa`?' I replied: 'A religion that agrees with the Kings, they gain from the dunya with it, and lose from their religion'
So he said: 'You have spoken the truth'"
Wa alaykum salamAssalaam alaikum,
Brother,
It is simple. You feel that there is knowledge we need to gain. Make a new thread. Be careful with your wording and make sure it is factual. And let us know why you think it is important. InshaAllah, we will all learn. Support your thread with links that are appropriate to this site.
OK. But even better than articles would be videos! Do not forget that the Murji is basically the other extreme opposite of the khawarij. The khawarij considers major sins to make a Muslim a kafir. For example according to the beliefs of the khawarij, the one who drinks alcohol is a disbeliever, the Muslim woman who doesnt wear hijab is a kafir. Sadly I have been called khariji in the internet even though I am far from the khawarij.Yes this is what I found on google. I am still confused =(
Yes this is what I found on google. I am still confused =(
Sister, its an old group of people who believe that as long as they state that they accept Allah as their lord and savior, they're good to go. Its a lazy ideology of ancient Islam that really doesn't require you to pray, fast, or really follow Islam. A good example is the Nation of Islam. Their god is "Allah," but they don't follow Quran. Brother Idris' question is "Are they Muslim?"
The reason why the Mods would have probably delete this sort of stuff is simple. It makes Salafis look weak, because their Kings are Murji'ahs. If brother Idris posts a thread and warns us that Murji'ah are NOT Muslims, then people in Saudi Arabia will say, "Oh snapp! Our king and princes are not Muslim....lets overthrow them!!" That's where things become political.
It is not about Salafis and I do not know if the Murjiah in general are considered disbelievers. I want to get rid of their thoughts. Irja should be eradicated from our way of thinking. Irja is the belief that actions are not part of iman. Also irja is not about not following the Quran, it is more about their deviated beliefs concerning actions. So I disagree with your post akhSister, its an old group of people who believe that as long as they state that they accept Allah as their lord and savior, they're good to go. Its a lazy ideology of ancient Islam that really doesn't require you to pray, fast, or really follow Islam. A good example is the Nation of Islam. Their god is "Allah," but they don't follow Quran. Brother Idris' question is "Are they Muslim?"
The reason why the Mods would have probably delete this sort of stuff is simple. It makes Salafis look weak, because their Kings are Murji'ahs. If brother Idris posts a thread and warns us that Murji'ah are NOT Muslims, then people in Saudi Arabia will say, "Oh snapp! Our king and princes are not Muslim....lets overthrow them!!" That's where things become political.
http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/20885/murji'ahShaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:
The kind of bid’ah for which a person is regarded as being one of those who follow their whims and desires is that which is well known among the scholars of the Sunnah for going against the Qur’aan and Sunnah, such as the bid’ah of the Khaarijis, the Raafidis, the Qadaris and the Murji’is. ‘Abd-Allaah ibn al-Mubaarak, Yoosuf ibn Asbaat and others said: The roots of the seventy-two sects are four: the Khaarijis, the Raafidis, the Qadaris and the Murji’is. It was said to Ibn al-Mubaarak, And the Jahamis? He said, The Jahamis are not part of the ummah of Muhammad saw.
The Jahamis deny the divine attributes and say that the Qur’aan was created, that Allaah will not be seen in the Hereafter, that Muhammad was not taken up to Allaah [on the night of the Mi’raaj], and that Allaah has no knowledge, power or life, and so on, as the Mu’tazilis, philosophers and their followers said. ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn Mahdi said: There are only two groups to beware of: the Jahamis and the Raafidis.
These two groups are the worst of the followers of innovation, and from them stemmed the esoteric Qaraamiti groups such as the Nusayris and Ismaa’ilis. Similar to them are those who believe in the unity of the Creator and the creation, because their ideas are akin to Pharaonic ideas.
The Raafidis of the current age, as well as being Raafidis are also Jahamis and Qadaris, because in addition to their rafd [which has to do with their beliefs concerning the imams] they also follow the Mu’tazili school of thought, and some of them even follow the school of thought of the Ismaa’ilis and other similar heretics and those who believe in the unity of the Creator and the creation. And Allaah and His Messenger know best.
Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 35/414-415.