Is Islam Mysoginistic?

[DeaducK]

Hi

Please comment on the discussion below:

Q - Is Islam internally misogynistic?

Answer : Yes
1. Islam doesn't allow a women to beat her husband, but allows husbands to beat their wives (even if it is under very extreme conditions). Why the double standard?
2. No Female prophets that we know of: The Qur'an says that Allah sent prophets for every society. We also know that women in society weren't always insignificant in history. Why did Allah not send even one prophet of the gender of half the population of the world?
3. Was Eve/Hawa (RA) actually created from Adam's (RA) rib? If so, isn't that misoginistic?
4. Why was Eve/Hawa (RA) created after Adam (RA)? Why couldn't Allah make them together or maybe Eve/Hawa (RA) first?
5. Hijab is more strict for women than men. Why aren't they equal or more strict for men?
6. Why doesn't Islam allow women to marry more than one man and yet allow men to marry more than one women?

Counter:
1A. Due to more physical strengths of husband over wives under most circumstances it is something that is not feasible.
1B. The Qur'an doesn't allow men to beat their wives. It has be misinterpreted, and it actually say that you can scold them.
2. Men is all society before the time of the Prophet (PBUH) were in a better position to serve as messengers than women were. That argument doesn't hold now, but we now, we have enough advancement to preach the words of the Prophet (PBUH) to each other and do not need another prophet before the last days.
3. It's not true and is made up.
4. ----
5. Biologically, men are stimulated to a large extend by sight compared to women. Thus the 'extra' strictness over what a women exposes than men.
6A. At the end of times there will be more women than men. But I don't know why in a current world with almost equal numbers, Allah did not make equal rules, and put a criteria like 'when it reaches a 1-2 ratio, then we allow multiple marriages'
6B. Marriage is not as important in previous and even current society for men as it are for women. Islam allows multiple wives under strict conditions to make sure that there is a way for all the women in a society to find a husband if they want to marry.


Answer : No
1. Islam allows women to divorce their husbands
2. Islam stopped the burial of infant girls
3. Islam enforces the practice of 'hijab' and other separation of woman and man in society so as to control sexual desires, and in doing so benefit women overall.

Counter:
1. Islam did something that is generally fair, and although it is commendable that they weren't misogynistic in this once case, doesn't mean that they aren't elsewhere.
2. same as 1.
3. If hijab is such a good thing, then why didn't Allah make it more equal? Why doesn't both men AND women or JUST men have strict rules for hijab as opposed to mainly women.

All of this is my current knowledge on the debate of misogynistic and Islam. Some I'm not sure of. Please let me know what you think about the various arguments and their counters, and please add more if you know of any. Please add it to both sides, if you are aware of any even if you disagree with it just to encourage a more knowledgeable debate.

In doing so to set some standards, I would like you to keep in mind that there is nothing that is impossible for Allah and although somethings may seem utterly fantastic to us now its not an argument against why things are so: like allowing women to beat their husbands. But as a counter: keep in mind that there is one unanswered question that we might never know and that is why set up the parameters of the world in the way it is...gender, multiple species, multiple societies and so on..and so we need to accept that the world we live in fair or not is the world we were put in for a reason that may be beyond our understand.

Thanks

 

[nizar83]

aselemu aleikum brother

good post mashallah

 

[TheHumbleWun]

6. Why doesn't Islam allow women to marry more than one man and yet allow men to marry more than one women?

Hello Deaduck,

Welcome to the forum. Many of the answers to your questions can be found using the search function on this site. The answers to these questions is not going to be just one line. You are asking questions that require thorough readings & extensive research. For example the above. I advise you to watch Dr. Zakir Naik's "Womens Rights in Islam" using Youtube. The video is pretty long.

Zakir Naik is one of the most prominent scholars of our time. He is full of knowledge & wisdom. He does a thorough analysis of the subject above. I recall he said something in the lines that if a woman was allowed to marry 4 husbands and she gets pregnant, she won't know who the baby belongs to! Yes, modern technology such as DNA testing can possibly help, but can everyone in the world afford it? Does everyone have access to it? This creates hardships. This is just one of the points he mentioned. Watch and learn as he tackles this issue from different angles.

I'm happy that you are eager in Islam. Take your time, research, ask one question at a time. You don't want to overload yourself with information.


Best Regards,

TheHumbleWun

 

[yameenahmed]

masha allah thanks for sharing ur knowledge with all of us u can find all these answers in dawah training programme of zakir naik book any how thanks

 

[tabaria]

:salam2:

People should read this piece of IOL. It clearly explains the irrationality of those who say women are not equal to men in islam.

http://www.readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1123996016742&pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam%2FAskAboutIslamE%2FAskAboutIslamE

 

[Nooraddyn]

confused

:salam2:

I dont know whether this is correct or not but this is what i grasp

Answer
3. Was Eve/Hawa (RA) actually created from Adam's (RA) rib? If so, isn't that misoginistic?
counter:
3. It's not true and is made up.

but i found today when i was browsing in islamqa this

This is a saheeh hadeeth which was narrated by the two Shaykhs [al-Bukhaari and Muslim] in al-Saheehayn from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), from the hadeeth of Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him). The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Treat women kindly, for woman was created from a bent rib, and the most crooked part of the rib is the top part, so treat women kindly.”

link:http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/2665/women

Is this reflects that Hawwa(ra) was created from the Rib of Adam(ra) ?

 

[nyerekareem]

:salam2:

i think that there are enough hadiths related to know that islam isn't a mysoginistic religion.

i wish i was better at citing the narration chains of various ahadith, but i'm sure that you can go to almost any islamic website and find hadith describing the importance of being good to one's wife.

 

[DeaducK]

:salam2:

i think that there are enough hadiths related to know that islam isn't a mysoginistic religion.

i wish i was better at citing the narration chains of various ahadith, but i'm sure that you can go to almost any islamic website and find hadith describing the importance of being good to one's wife.

I think you like most others miss an important point here. Being misogynistic is when you look at women as inferior to man. So when a country says that a woman can't be president while a man can, that is misogynistic. I've pointed some of those points about Islam out in the very first post of this thread.

In fact even what you said was inherently misogynistic too. All women aren't wives. They're people. They're only purpose in life is not to be wives to men. As for being treated well as a wife, why does Islam allow a man to have multiple wives? I know there is a precondition that the previous wives must be ok with it and you should treat them all equally, but is that even possible? Isn't this multiple wife rule being abused by nearly 99% of all Muslims who marry multiple wives? Why didn't Allah see through this and put and end to this?

I really get bothered when I hear arguments like that. It's the same with the wife beating part. Why is that even allowed? Or one sided? Why not allow women to beat their husbands? I don't know whether to laugh or cry at ignorant ppl that argue that the beating is fine as its like hitting her with a tooth brush. Its sad that their mothers are so subordinate to their fathers that they feel its OK for their fathers to come and hit her even if its with a toothbrush!

Sorry for the ranting people... inequality really gets under my skin. I hope you understand.

 

[TheHumbleWun]

In fact even what you said was inherently misogynistic too. All women aren't wives. They're people. They're only purpose in life is not to be wives to men. As for being treated well as a wife, why does Islam allow a man to have multiple wives? I know there is a precondition that the previous wives must be ok with it and you should treat them all equally, but is that even possible? Isn't this multiple wife rule being abused by nearly 99% of all Muslims who marry multiple wives? Why didn't Allah see through this and put and end to this?

Hello Deaduck,

Men & women are equal in front of Allah swt but we are different in characteristics. For example, men in most cases are physically stronger than women. One of the purpose of life in Islam is to get married (both men & women). Please don't make this a sex issue. Our salvation is based on faith & action (good & bad deeds). If you study the statistics, Muslim countries have the lowest divorce rates, abortion rates, rape incidents, etc compared to non-Muslim countries. I ask you to be fair. Please study the ill effect of dating that non-Muslim countries allow. These are people who without marriage have sex with random partners through out their life.

Again use the search function to find the answer to your questions and please, please watch Dr. Zakir Naik's "Women's Rights in Islam" on Youtube. It's long, but worth every second. Many of your questions will be answered.

The consent of the previous is not a condition but a permissability. You need to study the history of why polygamy is allowed. The Quran suggests only one wife but four is the limit. Please think outside the box and look at the lives of other people in different parts of the world. During times of war as well as perhaps if a woman is barren & can't reproduce are a few reasons for marrying another wife. Again with the emphasis of marrying only one wife is encouraged.

How can you question the wisdom of God Almighty? He is the one that gave you life! Please reasearch. Truth stands clear from error. I find it direspectful, arrogant, & a condensending view to say such a broad statement like, "nearly 99% of men abuse this..." You have no verifable statistics nor have you asked all the men if they've abused this. Furthermore, who has given you the authority to speak for Muslims & what is being abused or not?

 

[DeaducK]

If you study the statistics, Muslim countries have the lowest divorce rates, abortion rates, rape incidents, etc compared to non-Muslim countries. I ask you to be fair. Please study the ill effect of dating that non-Muslim countries allow. These are people who without marriage have sex with random partners through out their life.

This is a good supporting stat for Hijab. But I'm trying to take it a step further for the sake of debate. The reason for this is that there is a point when a society (in this case an Islamic society) needs to stop comparing itself to countries which has one thing worse off and use that as proof that their ways are fine.

Hijab allows less opportunities for rape I agree. But in doing so it also hinders a woman's freedom in society. So there is a trade off. To say that Hijab is justified as it prevents rape is like a father never letting his children out of the house as they might be run over by a car.

About divorce, you must consider what happens to a women in the two societies after they get divorced. In the west, other than emotional scars nothing...you are not ostracized by society. I believe this to be the strong reason why women even in case of an abusing marriage will put up with it, as there is no where else for her to go.

Again use the search function to find the answer to your questions and please, please watch Dr. Zakir Naik's "Women's Rights in Islam" on Youtube. It's long, but worth every second. Many of your questions will be answered.

Thanks for the suggestion. A few others have suggested the same thing. I haven't had time to look at the videos yet as it is very long. But I'm getting to it right now. I'll let you know.

The consent of the previous is not a condition but a permissability. You need to study the history of why polygamy is allowed. The Quran suggests only one wife but four is the limit. Please think outside the box and look at the lives of other people in different parts of the world. During times of war as well as perhaps if a woman is barren & can't reproduce are a few reasons for marrying another wife. Again with the emphasis of marrying only one wife is encouraged.

Polygamy makes sense when there is a lack of male in society, whether through dying by war or some other reason. I agree. But I don't see a very short number of women in countries where polygamy is practiced like its the most natural thing ever. Saudi Arabia is not at war, and they're men aren't dying at a faster rate than the women.

As for barren I hope you do know that men can also be sterile.

The question is then, when it comes to a shortage of sterile men in society, as it maybe be feared in case of women, why aren't women allowed to marry multiple men? Why didn't Allah put up a condition like, when you see a women can't find a man etc. etc... and all that?

How can you question the wisdom of God Almighty? He is the one that gave you life! Please reasearch. Truth stands clear from error. I find it direspectful, arrogant, & a condensending view to say such a broad statement like, "nearly 99% of men abuse this..." You have no verifable statistics nor have you asked all the men if they've abused this. Furthermore, who has given you the authority to speak for Muslims & what is being abused or not?

I'm not questioning the wisdom of Allah. You could say that I'm challenging the fact that Allah can not possibly be that short sighted. I hope you see a difference. If you don't question why something is wrong, you will never move on to what maybe have been the right answer all along that no one saw.

I was being disrespectful, arrogant and condescending. I tried not to be at first. But the last post before mine really riled be up. I made a mistake. I would suggest you get just as angry as me when you see any gender, race or creed being oppressed in society. Many people use Allah as a tool to serve there biases and that gets me really riled up. You will be serving a good cause to Islam by observing such things and speaking out about them.

I don't have stats of Muslims abusing polygamy. But what I knew was that you had to treat all your wives equal. And I don't know how any person can achieve that. I can't also imagine how women may be happy with sharing their husbands with other woman. Again, maybe if it was both sided it would make more sense. But allowed by a society now a days (multiple wives) that also seems to be run by men seem all to convenient. It's our responsibilty towards Islam to question these things.

I know that added to being disrespectful, arrogant and condescending I also sounded a bit too self-righteous in this post. So I apologize to you before hand...I can't help it. I'll post again after I finish the videos.

Thanks

Q - Aren't watching videos or making videos not allowed in Islam?

 

[cmelbouzaidi]

There is a stipulation and Allah is the best of Judges regarding the number of wives allowed, as mentioned in the Noble Qur'an:

"But if ye fear that ye shall not
Be able to deal justly (with them),
Then only one, or (a captive)
That your right hands possess.
That will be more suitable,
To prevent you
From doing injustice".
Surah 4:3

Allah is the Supreme Judge and therefore any man that marries more than one wife and does not treat them justly will be accountable for this on Judgement Day.

I am not sure about the statistics in any Muslim country today of how many husbands have more than one wife. I have been Muslim (female) myself now for over 17 years and I have yet to come across any woman that is one of two, three or four wives and I have met people from all over the Muslim world.

Also, Islam does promote matrimony and a family life and we are not apologetic for this. It is the husband's role to provide for his wife and family. However, if the wife does choose to have a career, the money she earns is hers and her husband has no right to ask for her wages/salary to support the family, as that is his responsibility and not hers.
She can spend of her own money as she sees fit. I know you don't like comparisons but it cannot be a healthy debate unless you have something to compare to However, in Western society, the husband or father often shirks his responsibility (and I have no stats... just talking from personal observations).... The financial burden falls on both husband and wife..... the kids go to school and stay in the "after school care" until dinner time.... Parents come home, exhausted after work, despite living in a "liberated" society, husband can't cook to save his life!! Wife then prepares dinner for the family which results in opening a can of hamburger helper (an abomination quite common in the USA).... or getting the kids a poisonous happy meal at MacDonalds!! Bath time for kids and bed..... No quality time with the family... the kids are in the care of strangers for 12 hours a day and basically being raised by somewhat uneducated workers frustrated in their minimum wage jobs...... Is that a life for the FREE??!! No family life, not even good food on the table and before you know it, husband and wife are living separate lives and the whole marriage disintegrates..... this is the typical American Dream that I observed after 14 years in the US and upon my return to Europe I see that here is becoming like that, too. It shoud not be like this for anyone......

Anyway, just chiming in with my "two cents"..... Things are not always as they seem on the surface, Deaduck...

Also, if Islam is mysoginistic, why do you think that it is today the fastest growing religion in the world (and I believe the number of women outweighs the number of men reverting)? Many of us have third level educations and have really done our research and we are not some halfwits that got sucked into some male conspiracy against women, lol!!

Anyway, good debate and enjoy the videos. I try not to get too involved in debates as I can get annoyed myself but I couldn't resist this one

Take care and keep learning

 

[TheHumbleWun]

Hello deaduck,

Thank you for making your intentions clear. Again, you are still avoiding to talk about the ill effects of dating yet accusing people of faith that polygamy is wrong without prior knowledge. It is this hypocrisy that is mind boggling to the people who use logic. If you are sincerely concerned with inequality, you shouldn’t disregard those statistics completely. There is a link. Comparison of a Muslim country to a non-Muslim does add some icing to the cake, but it shouldn’t be the reason for people to understand or even revert to Islam. Read the Quran like any other book. It’s full of wisdom.

Before I go any further, please watch Dr. Zakir Naik’s video first, then read the following supplemental sources (see below). Inshallah (God willing) it will increase your knowledge. Read ALL of the following before you ask any questions, then we’ll try to answer them to the best of our ability. If you ask me what's the most important thing to focus on when reading about Islam...it is Tahweed (the Oness of Allah). You should focus your research on that.

Trust me; you are not the first person to bring the “issue” of polygamy. People throughout history questioned & attacked but only a few researched and found the Truth. The examples I mentioned are just a few. I am not a scholar. It requires in depth studying & reading then asking questions. It’s best to read & research before you ask questions that requires significant amount of time & understanding. The Creator does not leave his creation unanswered.

One more thing – if you want to learn Islam properly erase whatever you’ve been taught about Islam by the media & non-Muslims. Start with an open view then learn progressively. Don’t be subjective – it’s not how you feel, its how they feel. Many Muslim women if you ask them say they are very happy being the 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th wife. They're the ones that made that decision!

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/14022
http://www.answering-christianity.com/polygamy.htm
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/...nglish-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaEAskTheScholar
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/...h-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1140333531684


A – It depends. Making p*&%graphic, having sex, nudity, derogatory words, promoting alcohol, dating, unislamic principles, etc makes the video haram (not allowed). I’m more interested where you learned this from.

 

[DeaducK]

Also, Islam does promote matrimony and a family life and we are not apologetic for this. It is the husband's role to provide for his wife and family. However, if the wife does choose to have a career, the money she earns is hers and her husband has no right to ask for her wages/salary to support the family, as that is his responsibility and not hers.
She can spend of her own money as she sees fit.

Nor should you or any Muslim be apologetic for promoting matrimony and family life. I wasn't suggesting that.

What you said about assigning different roles in society and family life for woman and men are completely understandable. Its unequal but it doesn't seem unfair. It's also one of the strong point in support of why Islam is not misogynistic but I forgot to include it in the very first post of this thread. Thanks for bringing that up.

I know you don't like comparisons but it cannot be a healthy debate unless you have something to compare to

I didn't want to compare with the west first off because I'm talking about an ideal Islamic society as opposed to an actual one like Saudi Arabia. 2nd its not enough for Islamic countries to just be 'better' than the west. If they follow the word of Allah they should be the best that any country can be.

However, in Western society, [..cropped out..] It shoud not be like this for anyone......

Ok the problem here is there is no family life. Its not because they 'allowed' their women to run wild in the streets and live their lives and careers as women. Its obviously because society in the west and in the rest of the world have an objective to make money. Money, money, money. So the father and mother work all hours of the day and the children go un-parented. Now the solution to this isn't forcing one of the genders to take care of the kids while the other doesn't. You could do several other things like reducing work hours for family, prioritizing family life, trying to get society to focus more on their children and think of them as as much of an investment as those extra hours at work that accompany extra income.

Also, if Islam is mysoginistic, why do you think that it is today the fastest growing religion in the world (and I believe the number of women outweighs the number of men reverting)? Many of us have third level educations and have really done our research and we are not some halfwits that got sucked into some male conspiracy against women, lol!!

I never said that Islam was misogynistic. I just asked the question and asked for back and forth points on all sides. You could refer to my very first post in this thread. Some how it got off track.