Sri Lankan maid Rizana Nafeek beheaded in Saudi Arabia

tic_tac_toe

Junior Member
Assalaam alaikum,

Excellent question. Does the recruiting agency act as the mahram? The question of survival comes into play. These girls are from poor and destitute families. This is a way out of the poverty. What about this?

:wasalam: Aapa,

Agency can't act as Mahram as that is determined by blood relations or by marriage.

The issue is clear cut, either you don't allow to travel without Mahram and in that case Saudi Government is in gross violation of Islamic Shariah by issuing work visas or you allow women to travel without Mahram and in that case Saudi Government shouldn't be denying Hajj visas to thousands of Muslim women.

These girls are poor and destitute so they are desperate and they are being exploited for their vulnerability.

But Saudees have the money so the rules can be made up or broken as they please they have wall to wall Shark Aquariums while our poor Sisters get exploited!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/08/01/us-mideast-usa-sharks-idUSN0141149120070801

Assalaam alaikum,

And what is the status of an married female residing on your property, one that is Muslim? Can a man have an unmarried, unprotected woman reside in his home?

If there are proper physical barriers in place and there is no seclusion i.e. other people are around then a man and and an unmarried woman can be under the same roof.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam alaikum,

I am sincere in asking this question. Is this not a sign of the end times. Is this not a sign that we uphold that which is false and call it right?

And to extend a thought..what is the responsibility of the man who hires the young girl. Does he have to bear responsibility for not following Sharia?
 

tic_tac_toe

Junior Member
Assalaam alaikum,

I am sincere in asking this question. Is this not a sign of the end times. Is this not a sign that we uphold that which is false and call it right?

And to extend a thought..what is the responsibility of the man who hires the young girl. Does he have to bear responsibility for not following Sharia?

Firstly the Saudi state is responsible for bringing a young Muslim woman into their country without Mahram and a caretaker so the story begins with the Government. Secondly, the employment laws permit a 17 year old untrained teenager to take care of a baby so again the Government is at fault. Thirdly, the justice system convicts someone to death without a Postmortem or witnesses so again the Government is at fault. Fourthly, the penal system imprisons a person for 8 years before executing the death penalty. so again the Government is at fault.

As far as the Saudi couple is concerned their 4 month old baby died so you can imagine what they would be going through emotionally.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam alaikum,

Agreed.

Now...as to personal responsibility. I am one of those that calls the people of the US sheeple. I am to the point where I am almost a recluse. I got tired of hitting my head against a wall. My head bled and the wall was still there.

Change only occurs when the individual assumes responsibility for the change to happen. Each heart has to change. So, forgive me but I do hold the family responsible in this matter. They went along with the wrong. They upheld the wrong. They bought into the corrupt system. A system only works when someone buys into it. The girl did not speak the language and you willingly and knowingly leave an infant with someone you can not communicate with?

The family that engaged the girl did not think.

Change has to come from within a system. The prophethood of our Prophet, swas, was within Arabia. Where are the scholars? Is this not a sign of the end times as well?

Forgive me, I have no influence. I pray that in communicating with you we can enlighten one Believer to speak to another etc.
 

tic_tac_toe

Junior Member
Assalaam alaikum,

Agreed.

Now...as to personal responsibility. I am one of those that calls the people of the US sheeple. I am to the point where I am almost a recluse. I got tired of hitting my head against a wall. My head bled and the wall was still there.

Change only occurs when the individual assumes responsibility for the change to happen. Each heart has to change. So, forgive me but I do hold the family responsible in this matter. They went along with the wrong. They upheld the wrong. They bought into the corrupt system. A system only works when someone buys into it. The girl did not speak the language and you willingly and knowingly leave an infant with someone you can not communicate with?

The family that engaged the girl did not think.

Change has to come from within a system. The prophethood of our Prophet, swas, was within Arabia. Where are the scholars? Is this not a sign of the end times as well?

Forgive me, I have no influence. I pray that in communicating with you we can enlighten one Believer to speak to another etc.

The change in Saudi Arabia will be brutal, bloody and deadly as prophesied according to Authentic traditions of Prophet Muhammad :saw: and it is called the advent of Mahdi and the Saudi Government will send in the Army to crush it because they have all to lose.

Their last stand will be military intervention against the Muslims and they will lose.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam alaikum,

Brother,

I am shaking at this moment. Let me gather my thoughts and digest what you have written. It is no playing matter. What you have had the courage to write is praiseworthy. In one simple sentence you have managed to make this site very serious.

If you could be kind enough can you give us a few hadidths to reflect upon.
 

Seeking Allah's Mercy

Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!
Asalamo`Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakaatuh,

Inna Lillahi Wa Inna Ilaihi Raj'oon. May Allah grant her and the baby Jannah al firdous through His Mercy. May Allah forgive her and us all for whatever sins we've committed publicly and privately.

My thoughts (Feel free to disregard them).

1) News such as this shouldn't be spread around, unless it comes from a reliable source and you are 100% sure about authenticity of the contents with proof because we may become a part of a group of liars who are spreading a lie. Allah Sobhanuhu Wa taa'la says:

إِذْ تَلَقَّوْنَهُۥ بِأَلْسِنَتِكُمْ وَتَقُولُونَ بِأَفْوَاهِكُم مَّا لَيْسَ لَكُم بِهِۦ عِلْمٌ وَتَحْسَبُونَهُۥ هَيِّنًا وَهُوَ عِندَ للَّـهِ عَظِيمٌ ﴿١٥﴾ وَلَوْلَآ إِذْ سَمِعْتُمُوهُ قُلْتُم مَّا يَكُونُ لَنَآ أَن نَّتَكَلَّمَ بِهَـٰذَا سُبْحَـٰنَكَ هَـٰذَا بُهْتَـٰنٌ عَظِيمٌ


When you received it with your tongues and said with your mouths that of which you had no knowledge and thought it was insignificant while it was, in the sight of Allah, tremendous. And why, when you heard it, did you not say, "It is not for us to speak of this. Exalted are You, [O Allah]; this is a great slander"?
[Surah An Nur : 15-16]


2) Our sister in question had a trial. If I'm correct, then the judges aren't any common folks these are scholars well versed in shari'a. If a scholar is appointed as a Qadhi (Judge), that shows he's a very knowledgable amongst the ulema. If I'm wrong, I appreciate correction. This is what I've collected from reading online.If this is case, we should know better than to start commenting on "how", "why" and "what" evidence was brought and treated like. A well versed scholar knows better than us who've read a BBC article. It is better that we keep our hearts and heads clear of doubts. A judge is someone whom Allah have raised in ranks, if he makes a right decision he gets two rewards. If he makes a wrong decision, he gets on reward. A lil respect won't hurt.

لَّوْلَآ إِذْ سَمِعْتُمُوهُ ظَنَّ لْمُؤْمِنُونَ وَلْمُؤْمِنَـٰتُ بِأَنفُسِهِمْ خَيْرًا وَقَالُوا۟ هَـٰذَآ إِفْكٌ مُّبِين


Why, when you heard it, did not the believing men and believing women think good of one another and say, "This is an obvious falsehood"?

3) The sister in question was not a "kid". We are Muslims, and as per Islam, she was adult and would be treated as such.

4) When it comes to Saudia treating foreign workers, it's more insulting and beastly than what you've described here. The way "some" saudis carry themselves is as if their arrogant stomach sacks rules the world. (I said some because I prefer not to generalise).

5) As for the girls traveling alone and staying alone, it's her and her parents fault first and Saudi's later. The entire world allows this kind of fitnah, singling out Saudia ruled by saud's law is unfair. When she left the house, it was not king Abdullah with his fat belly at her door to take her to KSA. Firstly, her as a Muslimah, and then her father (like the rest of us) should have known Deen comes before duniya. May Allah wash her sins with rain and snow and allow her to enjoy the pleasure of Jannah.

6) As for was she innocent or a murderer, how about not comment on that since none of us know. The court gave a decision based on whatever evidence there was enough for them, Allah is the only one who knows the truth.

7) Lastly, my condolences to Sister xAllahknowsbestx who has felt the pain, the rest of us haven't. I understand where this comes from ukhti. You've got more than your gender and religion in common with her. My only advice to you (if you feel like taking it) would be; human right activist is a good goal to try to achieve. However, don't get your emotions overpower you and don't let the 'world' teach you Islam and humanity. A lot of what these activist fight for, contradicts with our deen. You for example may have to choose in future between Human Rights Groups' or Shari' view on stoning of adultress, cutting the hands of a thieve, and marriage of an "underage" (by modern definition) sister etc.
 

tic_tac_toe

Junior Member
Asalamo`Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakaatuh,


5) As for the girls traveling alone and staying alone, it's her and her parents fault first and Saudi's later. The entire world allows this kind of fitnah, singling out Saudia ruled by saud's law is unfair. When she left the house, it was not king Abdullah with his fat belly at her door to take her to KSA. Firstly, her as a Muslimah, and then her father (like the rest of us) should have known Deen comes before duniya. May Allah wash her sins with rain and snow and allow her to enjoy the pleasure of Jannah.

:wasalam: Respected Sister,

Permit me to disagree;

I guess you have never been to Sri Lanka and have no idea about poverty and what its like to try to obtain 3 square meals a day. Many Muslims unfortunately have a very good opinion of Saudees because they associate Haramain with Saudi people.

How does a 17 year poor girl from the village was to know what will happen to her?

How are the parents responsible for the Saudi Government Visa policy which is in contradiction to Sunnah?
 

Seeking Allah's Mercy

Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!
:wasalam: Respected Sister,

Permit me to disagree;

I guess you have never been to Sri Lanka and have no idea about poverty and what its like to try to obtain 3 square meals a day. Many Muslims unfortunately have a very good opinion of Saudees because they associate Haramain with Saudi people.

How does a 17 year poor girl from the village was to know what will happen to her?

How are the parents responsible for the Saudi Government Visa policy which is in contradiction to Sunnah?

Wasalamo`Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakaatuh,

Yes brother, I have not been there. May Allah rectify their situation. Ignorance is the ignorant one's fault, then the society's which has done nothing to change this miserable state of this person. This goes without exception for the whole Muslims world. I'm not talking about knowledge of the future. I'm talking about basics like travelling with a guardian. However, if she was ignorant the fault doesn't automatically shift to being Saudi Government's "first". Also, the point I was making was, what if it was some other country which allowed or "made way" for travelling without a non mahram. Would it be their fault first? What if it was a Non Muslim country?

Everybody is responsible for their actions first, just like the mother was not wise to hire a 17 year old. Her father wasn't wise sending her away (regardless of weather he knew or not). Both of them have seen the consequences of their actions. Wisdom and knowledge isn't bought with money. One of them was well off and the other poor. Both were ignorants and careless. Evil exists everywhere, if we are careful, it's our fault first.

There is no doubt the visa guys are at fault and sinning. May Allah guide them. Still, she was her fathers' responsibility first. If he's given her away into the beasts sharp teeth, he definitely is the one responsible first and foremost. A muslim father should know better about his rights and duties. He didn't, I can't say anything about it, but just like Saudi "Maid Merchants" should know about the rights of their "Muslim Sisters". A father should know about his daughters and if he knew, then give them to her.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam alaikum,

Sister,

The trial was unfair. The lower courts did not want the case; it was sent spinning around. How is a trail free when she did not have proper representation.

Your statements are arguments of a school girl. When you live in poverty you do not have time to think of traveling. You have simple things on your mind..food and shelter.

The parents of the young girl sent her where she could make money and survive. She did not have to turn to the sex trades or be sold into slavery. And please do not refute this as this is the truth.

This is called exploitation. The Saudi family was as responsible as the state as was the employment agency. They all exploited a poor girl and because she was poor she was expendable. What does a Saudi woman have to do that she can not care for her own child? I read all these complaints that they can't drive or go shopping or go for walks...and now on this list is they can not feed a 16 week old. They have to hire someone to feed an infant.

Your arguments support how the poor are abused. The Saudi family did have the choice of forgiveness. They did not choose to forgive.
 

tic_tac_toe

Junior Member
Wasalamo`Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakaatuh,

Yes brother, I have not been there. May Allah rectify their situation. Ignorance is the ignorant one's fault, then the society's which has done nothing to change this miserable state of this person. This goes without exception for the whole Muslims world. I'm not talking about knowledge of the future. I'm talking about basics like travelling with a guardian. However, if she was ignorant the fault doesn't automatically shift to being Saudi Government's "first". Also, the point I was making was, what if it was some other country which allowed or "made way" for travelling without a non mahram. Would it be their fault first? What if it was a Non Muslim country?

Everybody is responsible for their actions first, just like the mother was not wise to hire a 17 year old. Her father wasn't wise sending her away (regardless of weather he knew or not). Both of them have seen the consequences of their actions. Wisdom and knowledge isn't bought with money. One of them was well off and the other poor. Both were ignorants and careless. Evil exists everywhere, if we are careful, it's our fault first.

There is no doubt the visa guys are at fault and sinning. May Allah guide them. Still, she was her fathers' responsibility first. If he's given her away into the beasts sharp teeth, he definitely is the one responsible first and foremost. A muslim father should know better about his rights and duties. He didn't, I can't say anything about it, but just like Saudi "Maid Merchants" should know about the rights of their "Muslim Sisters". A father should know about his daughters and if he knew, then give them to her.

:salam2:

Subhanullah Sister! I am astonished, astounded and bewildered at your way of thinking and I dearly hope that you are a child barely a teenager.

These people have nothing to eat and live in abject poverty and had no choice and her father's letter is attached explaining that he had no choice but to sent her so the family can have 2 MEALS (not 3) a day!

This letter was personally handed over from the Sri Lankan officials to her employees who pressed charges.

Letter.jpg

What is the Ummah coming to? Subhanullah
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam alaikum,

We forget that that we ask for the Light of Allah to shine within our hearts. It takes struggle and pain to seek that light. It does not come easy.
Our sister is innocent. She speaks without the benefit of experience; compassion is not learned by books. Compassion comes from hard work and decisions.

Girls from the poverty stricken countries such as Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Thailand, the Philippines are sold as sex slaves as early as nine years old. The market loves the Russians. You can read about the plight of the Russian girls in Israel. This is nothing new. The ocean liners around the Arabian sea are there for one or two things. Let me be polite, sex,drugs, and rock and roll. The market will always thrive.

We accuse the family of the poor. Great not only are you poor but you suck as a human being for having children. You do not place blame on the poor for surviving. We all want to live.

We need to put the Saudi government under the constant eye of scrutiny. InshaAllah, this will be the last time.

The government could have deported the girl back to her homeland. The courts could have placed her on probation and given her training. There was no mercy or compassion. It was the word of an Arab against a poor girl. We know what that is like here in the US. We have a word for it here: lynching.
 

Seeking Allah's Mercy

Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!
:salam2:

Subhanullah Sister! I am astonished, astounded and bewildered at your way of thinking and I dearly hope that you are a child barely a teenager.

These people have nothing to eat and live in abject poverty and had no choice and her father's letter is attached explaining that he had no choice but to sent her so the family can have 2 MEALS (not 3) a day!

This letter was personally handed over from the Sri Lankan officials to her employees who pressed charges.

View attachment 9629

What is the Ummah coming to? Subhanullah
Wasalamo`Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakaatuh,

I'm two. Btw you forgot to add these words, stunned and baffled.

My words may not be right brother, but I stand by what I said.

I'm not a stone, there is no need to treat me like one. I am aware of what their difficulties and problems are / were and under what situation she was send. My point of contention is, since you dragged Islamic Shari Legislation into it and talked about "Islamic faults" then she (RahimAllahu) and her father sinned first by letting her travel and stay alone without a guardian.

Lastly, I may be wrong about this. If that is the case, I'll step down and take what's correct. Walhumdulillah!
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam alaikum,

Sister,

Even stones when pressured let out water.

Out of poverty you fault a young girl who had no other choice. You fault a girl for wanting to help her family. Is that what you would say to her mother? The girl was sent thousands of miles away to a culture well known for its racism. She did not speak the language.

A land that knows they are hoarding the treasury of Islam. So I beg of you to go according to the law and demand that those who hoard the treasury of Islam and build places of gold and play with blondes on yachts do right. Is the sin not on them according to the letter of the law. They are the thieves of the treasures of Islam.

So stand by what you say. And while you are standing think. When the mother of Musa, ra, placed her baby in the basket, was she sinning?
 

tic_tac_toe

Junior Member
Wasalamo`Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakaatuh,

I'm two. Btw you forgot to add these words, stunned and baffled.

My words may not be right brother, but I stand by what I said.

I'm not a stone, there is no need to treat me like one. I am aware of what their difficulties and problems are / were and under what situation she was send. My point of contention is, since you dragged Islamic Shari Legislation into it and talked about "Islamic faults" then she (RahimAllahu) and her father sinned first by letting her travel and stay alone without a guardian.

Lastly, I may be wrong about this. If that is the case, I'll step down and take what's correct. Walhumdulillah!

:salam2: Sister,

Since you are a child, its beyond your intellectual grasp so we will discuss when you grow up :inshallah:

Assalaam alaikum,

Sister,

Even stones when pressured let out water.

Out of poverty you fault a young girl who had no other choice. You fault a girl for wanting to help her family. Is that what you would say to her mother? The girl was sent thousands of miles away to a culture well known for its racism. She did not speak the language.

A land that knows they are hoarding the treasury of Islam. So I beg of you to go according to the law and demand that those who hoard the treasury of Islam and build places of gold and play with blondes on yachts do right. Is the sin not on them according to the letter of the law. They are the thieves of the treasures of Islam.

So stand by what you say. And while you are standing think. When the mother of Musa, ra, placed her baby in the basket, was she sinning?

Poverty is serious business, so serious that Capital Punishment for theft which is set out in the book of Allah was suspended by Sayyidina Umar (Radiallaho Anho), the narration is Authentic but explained by Scholars in two separate ways:

1) Some Scholars say that he suspended it outright

2) The conservative opinion is that he didn't actually suspend it (as he had no right) but merely revoked his order upon witnessing the starvation.

It doesn't matter whether you take opinion 1 or opinion 2, the point is that starvation is serious business and reduces a person to desperate actions.

Any sane and rational individual can see it so the reason a father allowed his daughter to travel to a foreign country was to get 2 meals a day, sheer desperation.
 
The mother of Moses was inspired by Allaah. Allaah did not inspire SE Asian parents to ship their daughters away to slavery. Instead, Allaah tells us all to fight for our Haqq. Sri Lanka is not an intrinsically impoverished country. In fact it's GDP ranks 69, which makes its economy stronger than 127 other nations. Jahl'a (ignorance) is the root of the people's misfortune. Slick politicians are eating away their wealth, but instead of waking up and unite to fight those thieves to take back what's lawfully theirs, they resort to something less troublesome: send our daughters to slavery.

FYI : Sri Lanka has more wealth compared to Yemen (a country that shares a border with Saudi Arabia) but you don't see Yemeni housemaids in Saudi Arabia. Perhaps dignity comes to play?
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam alaikum,


The plight of Musa's mother gives many mothers hope. The joy of being able to see your child and hold him/her again. There are many who have had to give up the child for survival. It gives the faithful joy to know that even the mothers of His Messengers and Prophets felt the same pain many of us mothers do.

I can only pray that Allah subhana wa taala softens the hearts of some members.

The people of Yemen consider themselves Arabs and would not serve Arabs. Welcome to reality.

Poverty is ugly. Why do you have to compare the poverty level of these poor souls.

You did not respond the Arabs hoarding the treasury of Islam. You attacked the meek and poor and helpless. It does not matter where on Earth there is poverty we are under obligation as Muslims to feed others. It is a small task.
 
Why do you have to compare

You should not allow the facts to sink in your pool of racism. Evidently, you abhor Arabs. Our beloved Rasool, saaw, was an Arab.

Welcome to reality.

Reality is: poverty is no excuse to stick a stamp on your daughter's head and mail her to be a slave. I would rather starve to death than have my child bow down to any man.

we are under obligation as Muslims to feed others
Indeed, but I do recall it was you who at one point didn't want people to challenge their "leaders." The Muslims who do wish to spread the resources simply cannot because you sent them home to "change themselves before they attempt to change their government" ....They will come back out in 40 years
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam alaikum,

I guess the poor child's father was correct. He would rather send her to a foreign land than be married to the likes of someone like you. You are showing yourself.

Have the courage to speak to the father of the young girl and caller him a sinner. You talk large behind a screen. Write a letter and call him a sinner. Call all the parents of young girls that are exploited by the Arabs sinners. I will read your letter. Something tells me you can not.


You are not married. You do not have children. You probably still live with your mama. ----- Please!!!
 

uniqueskates

Rabbe Zidni Illma
:salam2:

1) Some Scholars say that he suspended it outright

2) The conservative opinion is that he didn't actually suspend it (as he had no right) but merely revoked his order upon witnessing the starvation.

:bismillah1:
:salam2:

Very much true. When I was in a session, this point was clearly mentioned. To be exact, I heard of the second opinion that during the Poverty/Starvation time, Umar(RA) had suspended it. JazakAllah Khair akhi for sharing this piece.

The mother of Moses was inspired by Allaah. Allaah did not inspire SE Asian parents to ship their daughters away to slavery. Instead, Allaah tells us all to fight for our Haqq. Sri Lanka is not an intrinsically impoverished country. In fact it's GDP ranks 69, which makes its economy stronger than 127 other nations. Jahl'a (ignorance) is the root of the people's misfortune. Slick politicians are eating away their wealth, but instead of waking up and unite to fight those thieves to take back what's lawfully theirs, they resort to something less troublesome: send our daughters to slavery.

To my lovely brother, You have no idea what runs down there in Sri-Lanka. Don't go on stating the GDP, economy. It is way worse than what the statistics speak. Just out of curiosity, have you ever felt/had a situation where 10 people have lived in one small room? Where a 2 day meal seems like a dream? Gosh.! May Allah(SWT) have mercy on you akhi.

It's pretty easy to say unite and fight back. LOL! You make it seem like they have to play a video game.

Reality is: poverty is no excuse to stick a stamp on your daughter's head and mail her to be a slave. I would rather starve to death than have my child bow down to any man.

Working for someone isn't slavery. Whether you are a garbage cleaner, house-maid, home-maker, IT-professional or any job. Work is work. A house-maid, a baby-sitter ain't slavery.

I would rather starve to death than have my child bow down to any man.
Perhaps, Dignity??

Think with a cool head akhi. :)

Peace. :)
 
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