US Army's Feb. suicide toll 'disturbing'

sazk

Banned
in islam, it doesn't matter what's your opinion or what you think. if a place makes a person a bad muslim, he must migrate to a better place for the sake of Allah.

but i'm guessing that since you're giving so many "in my opinion, i think this, i think that" you don't know much about islam.
 

Seeker_2601

New Member
I see you are new. but i have to ask have you ever asked yourself ''Why did this happen to us''
really i must ask, didnt u expect an attack, after u recognized israel,helped them in the UN,attack on vietnam, invasion of Somalia, and even after usa made the soviet to invade afghanistan. 1.5 million afghans died in that war. the most recent attack by US in my land, was 1st may 2008. and u can google it for urself and see what really happened that day.

and 9/11 was an inside job, i saw a documentary in my country and a young american boy, even younger than the age of thirty made a documentary and he showed others how it was an inside job.

Regardless of who did what, it is not the soldiers faults. If America fails its war on "terror", which I honestly believe it will, then nothing good will have come of it. If 9/11 was an inside job, then the soldiers are fooled just as much as the rest of us Americans.
I didnt recognize anyone or anything. I didnt send anyone any where to do anything. My Government did. I can safely say I hate the government's policies and the way it's ran. If someone, muslim or not, wants to really hurt the american government then killing people is not the way to do it. There will be another president this or that or general so and so. We vote on who they are, but I honestly think that the votes are fixed due to the electoral college process so really we DONT choose who they are. After they are chosen, they do as they please. We didnt choose to go to war, the government did and we have no say in it. The soldiers, for the most part, are going to the war to pay for college or to get money to live off of. I despise the war, but I support MOST of the soldiers. Now the soldiers at guantanamo bay who torture the inmates should be punished absolutely, I cant support their actions under any means, but the kid from pennsylvania who cant go to school unless he enlists and then kills himself after seeing the things he has and not having any where to turn, why did he have to die?
 

sazk

Banned
you know seeker_2601, your posts make sense.

they completely do. AND

i would agree with you IF you had spoken out against their former actions when they were killing innocent people.

but NO! you only speak when they off themselves. the sympathy card only works if you're fair. not when distress knocks on your own door because of your actions.

@Heegaan - doesn't matter, nobody keeps count. so many have lost their homes, mothers have lost their children, children have lost their parents, kids have night terrors and psychological trauma now. but i dont see any post from the soldier sympathiser on this issue.
 

Idris16

Junior Member
seeker_2601, i see u r hurt
Im sorry. i dont like ur soldiers nor do i like ur govt. Allah didnt tell US to be World Police. Allah didnt say u decide whats going on in foreign nations. mods should close this topic..
 

Seeker_2601

New Member
in islam, it doesn't matter what's your opinion or what you think. if a place makes a person a bad muslim, he must migrate to a better place for the sake of Allah.

but i'm guessing that since you're giving so many "in my opinion, i think this, i think that" you don't know much about islam.

You're right. I am not a scholar of anything. Im a 19 year old kid with a laptop who's willing to give his two cents. I have studied alot of religions, to varying degrees, and find Islam, again, from what I've seen, to be the most sensible. But in no religions, at all, save for extremeist leftist views such as devil worship, have I ever seen the loss of life celebrated.
And what if he CANT migrate for the sake of Allah? He doesnt have the funding. Is he supposed to walk 400 miles and die on the side of the road? Im sure you could say that that would be better for him in the eyes of Allah, but could you do that? Could you send yourself on some mission where NOTHING but your death for the sake of Allah happens? If so, then I envy you for your conviction. I think that your secret club mentality of muslims ALWAYS being right and non muslims being wrong if it EVER hurts, conflicts, or negates anything Islamic, is the reason many people never research Islam. You say I dont know about Islam and you're right, but this is my idea. You havent answered half of the points I made and if you're so concerned I dont know Islam and Islam is not about opinions then show me Quran and Hadith of where it says a human being dying is a good thing and I'll never come back to this forum, or Islam, again. If God wanted us to die, then why make us?
 

Mohsin

abdu'Allah
Brothers I understand what you are saying but don't get emotional and remember what Allah told to his messenger :saw: in surah Al-e-Imran.

Al-Bukhari recorded that, Salim bin `Abdullah said that his father said that he heard the Messenger of Allah saying -- when he raised his head from bowing in the second unit of the Fajr prayer -- "O Allah! Curse so-and-so,'' after saying; Sami` Allahu Liman Hamidah, Rabbana wa lakal-Hamd. Thereafter, Allah revealed this Ayah,

[لَيْسَ لَكَ مِنَ الاٌّمْرِ شَىْءٌ]

(Not for you is the decision) This was also recorded by An-Nasa'i. Imam Ahmad recorded that Salim bin `Abdullah said that his father said that he heard the Messenger of Allah saying,

«اللَّهُمَّ الْعَنْ فُلَانًا، اللَّهُمَّ الْعَنِ الْحَارِثَ بْنَ هِشَامٍ، اللَّهُمَّ الْعَنْ سُهَيْلَ بْنَ عَمْرٍو، اللَّهُمَّ الْعَنْ صَفْوَانَ بْنَ أُمَيَّة»

(O Allah! Curse so-and-so. O Allah! Curse Al-Harith bin Hisham. O Allah! Curse Suhayl bin `Amr. O Allah! Curse Safwan bin Umayyah.)

Thereafter, this Ayah was revealed;

[لَيْسَ لَكَ مِنَ الاٌّمْرِ شَىْءٌ أَوْ يَتُوبَ عَلَيْهِمْ أَوْ يُعَذِّبَهُمْ فَإِنَّهُمْ ظَـلِمُونَ ]

(Not for you is the decision; whether He turns in mercy to (pardon) them or punishes them; verily, they are the wrongdoers) [3:128].

All these persons were pardoned (after they embraced Islam later on).

Al-Bukhari recorded that Abu Hurayrah said that when Allah's Messenger would supplicate against or for someone, he would do so when he was finished bowing and saying; Sami` Allahu Liman Hamidah, Rabbana wa lakal-Hamd. He would then say, (the Qunut)

«اللَّهُمَّ أَنْجِ الْوَلِيدَ بْنَ الْوَلِيدِ، وَسَلَمَةَ بْنَ هِشَامٍ وَعَيَّاشَ بْنَ أَبِي رَبِيعَةَ، وَالْمُسْتَضْعَفِينَ مِنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ، اللَّهُمَّ اشْدُدْ وَطْأَتَكَ عَلى مُضَرَ، وَاجْعَلْهَا عَلَيْهِمْ سِنِينَ كَسِنِي يُوسُف»

(O Allah! Save Al-Walid bin Al-Walid, Salamah bin Hisham, `Ayyash bin Abi Rabi`ah and the weak and the helpless people among the faithful believers. O Allah! Be hard on the tribe of Mudar and let them suffer from years of famine like that of the time of Yusuf. )

He would say this supplication aloud. He sometimes would supplicate during the Dawn prayer, "O Allah! Curse so-and-so (persons),'' mentioning some Arab tribes. Thereafter, Allah revealed,

[لَيْسَ لَكَ مِنَ الاٌّمْرِ شَىْءٌ]

(Not for you is the decision.)

Al-Bukhari recorded that Hamid and Thabit said that, Anas bin Malik said that the Prophet was injured during the battle of Uhud and said,

«كَيْفَ يُفْلِحُ قَوْمٌ شَجُّوا نَبِيَّهُمْ؟»

(How can a people achieve success after having injured their Prophet)

Thereafter,

[لَيْسَ لَكَ مِنَ الاٌّمْرِ شَىْءٌ]

(Not for you is the decision,) was revealed.

Imam Ahmad recorded that Anas said that, the Prophet's front tooth was broken during the battle of Uhud and he also sustained injuries on his forehead until blood dripped on his face. The Prophet said,

«كَيْفَ يُفْلِحُ قَوْمٌ فَعَلُوا هذَا بِنَبِيِّهِمْ، وَهُوَ يَدْعُوهُمْ إِلى رَبِّهِمْ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ؟»

(How can a people achieve success after having done this to their Prophet who is calling them to their Lord, the Exalted and Most Honored) Allah revealed,

[لَيْسَ لَكَ مِنَ الاٌّمْرِ شَىْءٌ أَوْ يَتُوبَ عَلَيْهِمْ أَوْ يُعَذِّبَهُمْ فَإِنَّهُمْ ظَـلِمُونَ ]

(Not for you is the decision; whether He turns in mercy to (pardons) them or punishes them; verily, they are the wrongdoers.) Muslim also collected this Hadith.

Allah then said,

[وَللَّهِ مَا فِى السَّمَـوَتِ وَمَا فِى الاٌّرْضِ]

(And to Allah belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the Earth.) [3:129], everything is indeed the property of Allah and all are servants in His Hand.

[يَغْفِرُ لِمَن يَشَآءُ وَيُعَذِّبُ مَن يَشَآءُ]

(He forgives whom He wills, and punishes whom He wills.) for His is the decision and none can resist His decision. Allah is never asked about what He does, while they will be asked,

[وَاللَّهُ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ]
(and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.)
Emphsis is mine.
I agree with Seeker, it would have been better for them to live and repent to Allah SWT.
 

sazk

Banned
i agree with heegaan. seeker_2601 is hurt because his friend is involved. we are hurt because our brothers were killed. mods should close this topic.

i can drag out this argument seeker 2601. believe me i can. but i wont.

it all comes down to what i have said above.
 

Seeker_2601

New Member
seeker_2601, i see u r hurt
Im sorry. i dont like ur soldiers nor do i like ur govt. Allah didnt tell US to be World Police. Allah didnt say u decide whats going on in foreign nations. mods should close this topic..

I appreciate your concern I do and I thank you for it. I perfectly understand the dislike of them. I personally hate their actions and choices as well and think that many of them are bad people. But a bad person can become a good person, no matter what, so long as they're alive to have the chance.
 

Seeker_2601

New Member
i agree with heegaan. seeker_2601 is hurt because his friend is involved. we are hurt because our brothers were killed. mods should close this topic.

i can drag out this argument seeker 2601. believe me i can. but i wont.

it all comes down to what i have said above.

I am sorry if it seemed like I attacked you personally brother. I just cant understand the idea of death being ok. I understand the hate and dislike, but If their is a God, its up to him, not us, what happens to them.

**EDIT

My friend, thank God, is doing a bit better and will be returning home shortly. What im more concerned about though is if you guys think their death is a good thing, or if Islam thinks their death is a good thing. If Islam celebrates the death of anyone, good or bad, then I dont think it's right for me. If it's your opinion, then it's ok, but If it IS in the Quran or Hadith that someone killing themself is ever regarded as good, then thats what is upsetting. Islam is the only religion that makes SOME sense to me. If it says something like that then I guess I would be damned to hell anyway.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Salaam,

This post is getting off track. Let us stay focused.

The illegal occupation or hegemony of the United States on the Muslim world is barbaric.
The US is using, as it always has, the poor and ill-informed young men who are nothing but fodder for them. When these young men and women see the reality of the world and the illusions they have lived under..they kill themselves. The armed forces do nothing for the families. And it is not going to stop.

Seeker..review American history. America has always sent troops. In essence the US was the training ground for the British.

It is the policies of the few Zionists that are killing the poor of America. It is the policies of the few that divide everyone and keep the poor in America oppressed.

Seeker..you can be the vehicle who can help educate the poor into making decisions that will give them a peaceful future. Our educational system is purposely desgined to keep our students dumb. Thank you for trying to learn.

Please do not get emotional..that is immature.
 

Mohsin

abdu'Allah
:salam2:

I think there is some confusion. If we are debating that someone be given a chance to live and repent then I wonder how can we even think of someone not getting a chance to do that. We know Umar ibn al-Khattab (RA), Khalid ibn al-Walid (RA), Ikrimah ibn abi-Jahl (RA) all were enemies of Islam before they repented and we all know what they become later on. How can we forget when Muslims entered Makkah and forgave each and everyone.

I know brothers you feel hurt but our salaf left us an example to follow. Be patient as nothing is worse than the fire of Jahannam and a muslim should always be willing to forgive and save one from fire.
 

sazk

Banned
seeker, off topic by the way, i've noticed you always come up with some very weird concepts and questions on TTi. i suggest you read more and try to grasp this key that islam is not 'what is your perception of it'. islam is 'what Allah told us'. how do we know its Allah who told us, because we have various proofs of that and you should read the evidence of it.

islam is not what you make of it. islam is what God made of it.
 

Seeker_2601

New Member
seeker, off topic by the way, i've noticed you always come up with some very weird concepts and questions on TTi. i suggest you read more and try to grasp this key that islam is not 'what is your perception of it'. islam is 'what Allah told us'. how do we know its Allah who told us, because we have various proofs of that and you should read the evidence of it.

islam is not what you make of it. islam is what God made of it.

My brother, weird concepts are basically my thought process :SMILY149:

It's just kind of hard to read up on things because I cant just flip through the Quran and Hadith, they're too big to find one topic, and If I look online, I dont know if I can trust it because it might be malicious or exagerated and If it is trying to be genuine, the translation to english might make it seem like it is different then what the Arabic says. And I read NO arabic what so ever (sometimes I can find the word Allah, so long as its not in caligraphy, but that's beside the point) I kinda have to trust other muslims to tell me these things because my knowledge is so limited and there is no Islamic center or Mosque for a very long drive from here so TTI is kinda my only reliable resource because if someone says something wrong or translated improperly, another brother or sister can correct them
 

Seeker_2601

New Member
*REMOVED*.../B]


Why is getting emotional Immature though? You cant tell me that you dont. We're strangers here, viewing each other through nothing more that a computer screen. Almost like imaginary friends that talk back. Why not share emotion?
 

mhamzah

Junior Member
HANG ON, THIS IS GETTING OUT OF HAND - THE WHOLE IDEA OF STARTING THIS THREAD WAS NOT TO START A DEBATE HERE.
 

mhamzah

Junior Member
THE REASON ITS GETTING OUT OF HAND BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO GET THE FINAL SAY, THERE IS LITTLE EFFORT TO UNDERSTAND OTHER'S POINT OF VIEW.

I SUGGEST YOU REVISIT THE THREAD AFTER SOME TIME AND GO THOUGH ALL THE POSTS AGAIN.


WE WERE ON PAGE 2, ABOUT HALF AN OUR BACK AND WE ARE ALREADY ON PAGE 4
 
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