Why do some ppl follow Qur'an and Sunnah and reject Hadith?

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Get some rest brother...get some rest... Oh my proof that Allah demands uniformity: I told you my faith is simple:
Surah Al-Ikhlas
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
Say: He is Allah, the One! (1) Allah, the eternally Besought of all! (2) He begetteth not nor was begotten. (3) And there is none comparable unto Him. (4)

You still have not answered my questions. You evade answers.

See, you are the one telling me to follow what you consider to be correct...I am listening but you are going around in circles. If you were in politics you would not get my vote.

By, the way...lets start simple:

Who taught you Quran? How do you contextualize the Quran? What evidence do you have of the Revelations?

And just for my simple self: In terms of the Arabic...do you read the Quran with all the accents ( you know the dots and accent marks and the little w's ). This one is important for me.

Rest up...I am full of questions.

I ask the other brothers and sister to be patient with me. I will question until I have understanding.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Son,

I love your pride. I was being very polite. I used the word simpleton to assist you in helping me understand on a very basic level your status quo.

You could not reduce your argument as you have none. You can not even answer a simple question such as who taught you the Quran.

Basic genetics informs us of the uniformity of life. Everything stems from Him.


I do not care what is acceptable to you.

You have not given me anything. You are the one who is telling me you are right and you have knowledge. I want to know who gave it to you.

If a person is unable to provide answers on an elementary level and engage in discussion that provide fundamental and sound evidence they, themselves, are unsure.

The Prophet, may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, used to take the time to address the concerns and questions of people.

You have made my point for me. You have told me to go away as you can not give me a simple summation of what you believe.

Hadith provides a way to practice your faith in a certain manner. Women would ask the Prophet, the Messenger of Allah, the same question up to three times and he, the Beloved of Allah, would answer.



Maybe if you read hadidth you could learn to answer simple questions instead of playing games.

 

[Tomtom]

I used to hold the view that brother qwel does and I presented my case in another forum and I was 'crucified'. Their argument is that it is not a personal relationship one has with Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala because like they're stated here it will be interpreted in many different ways. However, on the flip side of this argument is that what we are following now is rules stipulated by mere men elevated to the height of scholars, and everything they is ok because they are knowledgeable. As I've given the example earlier, Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala tells us to use our intellect and reasoning which He gave us along with free will. The trouble is the Muslim masses are terrified of using this intellect and reasoning because they are terrorised into a condition where they are NOT allowed to think but they are drip fed informations by somebody else. That's ok because the person who is giving us this information is a scholar. Sure, they are knowledgeable as they have used their intellect and reasoning which God gave them, but they are human beings and prone to mistakes just like you and me.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Brother,

What made you change your mind and see a wider perspective to seek knowledge;

What I discovered as I familiarized myself with the scholars of Islam is the absolute humility. These men filled with intellect and precision of the mind were the first to admit that they knew very little.

When I pose a question to a learned and pious man he takes the time to respond in an appropriate manner. He is careful in giving responses as he knows he is held accountable.

He imitates the behaviors of the Prophet as they have meticulously been recorded to assist us in emulating that which is simply correctly.

And the best thing about scholars, unlike the philosophers, is that they deal with the simple and ordinary. They keep it real.

Death may come in the next second so let me deal with the here and now to get ready for the moment.

The Quran is the Gift. The Sunna is what I wrap my gift in...that is what I want to take with me to Death.

That is what I'm talking about.

 

[Tomtom]

Assalaam walaikum,

Brother,

What made you change your mind and see a wider perspective to seek knowledge;

What I discovered as I familiarized myself with the scholars of Islam is the absolute humility. These men filled with intellect and precision of the mind were the first to admit that they knew very little.

When I pose a question to a learned and pious man he takes the time to respond in an appropriate manner. He is careful in giving responses as he knows he is held accountable.

He imitates the behaviors of the Prophet as they have meticulously been recorded to assist us in emulating that which is simply correctly.

And the best thing about scholars, unlike the philosophers, is that they deal with the simple and ordinary. They keep it real.

Death may come in the next second so let me deal with the here and now to get ready for the moment.

The Quran is the Gift. The Sunna is what I wrap my gift in...that is what I want to take with me to Death.

That is what I'm talking about.

The Prophet (pbuh) said "pray as you have seen me pray" and what happened when they built the first masjid in Medina with date palm stumps, date palm leaves is those first muslims were lucky enough to see the Prophet pray. There was an incident where a man prayed and then approached the Prophet (pbuh) and the Prophet (pbuh) told him to go back and pray again as he did not pray properly. If we could have prayed anyway we wanted to then the Prophet would have said so. These things would have been shown to him by Jibreel as the Prophet (pbuh) was taught everything, nothing in Islam is an innovation of the Prophet (pbuh).

I agree with people when they say that the Hadiths are instructions left for Muslims and the Ummah in how to conduct our affairs and how to best please Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala. As people have mentioned, it specifically says in the Holy Qur'an to listen to the prophet, this is a direct command from Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala. I can also understand the chaos that will ensue if Islam was let to each and every individual, there would be a billion and a half versions of Islam and muslims would be fighting each other trying to outscore each other to determine whose Islam is the best.

Allahu Alum!

 

[Rustandi]

Assalamu'alaikum

Aha.. an invasion by the so-called "Quranites" it seems, a sister told me of this thread but i didn't know what it was about, listen brothers and sisters, those guys.. they're not here with a sincere heart to find the truth, they just wanna attack us, and spreading their poisonous venom, the only solution is for the authorities of this forum to come down, give them warnings, if they listen and stop being insolent, then good for them, if not then close this thread and ban their accounts, there's a fine line with debates to seek the truth and debates to satisfy one's own ego and spreading fitna, and this seems more like the latter to me.

I usually don't like to be hostile, but i saw one of the most respected sister here being insulted a couple of times, by someone who join this forum without introducing him/her self and seems to me, registered only to spread this fitna.

I won't by the trap and join this pointless debate, but i'm reminding you quranites about danger of arrogance, i know you will reject this hadeeth anyway but whatever..

The prophet defined it for us in an authentic hadith reported by Imams Muslim and At-Tirmithi, "One will not enter Paradise, if one has an atom’s weight of arrogance in his/her heart." a man then asked, "One may love his clothes to look good and his shoes to look good?!" The prophet replied, "Allah is beautiful and loves beauty, arrogance is: rejecting the truth and looking down on people."

If you truly sincere in finding the truth, please keep your manners and etiquettes, especially to your elders..

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Jazaak Allahu Kharin, son.

 

[Ershad]

Assalamu Alaikkum,

There is hadith for these people when Prophet heard about them. Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

"I certainly do not want to find any one of you reclining upon his couch and saying that when there comes to you a command that I gave or something which I have prohibited: 'I do not know. What we have found lawful in the Book of Allaah, we accept it as lawful and what we have found in it to be unlawful, we accept it as unlawful.'"

What I find amusing is this person warned me to be humble. What we have to know from this is, there is no naseehah you can give to people of innovation. Their hearts are hardened and we cannot guide them after Allah has decided to leave them astray. Only thing we can do is stay away from them, abandon them and protect your religion and belief. These people are enemies of Ummah who try to split it from within. We have to careful because they walk among us, they act like our brothers and raise doubts in our hearts. They are more dangerous to the Ummah than the non-muslims. So, we should protect our faith and leave it to scholars and people of knowledge to refute and remove these people.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

I asked one with knowledge to help me out. He did...You know Allah loves me..Here is a worthy explanation:

Rejecting the Hadeeth altogether is irrational! Because it is the Hadeeth that tells us how many prayers we have to pray everyday, how to pray and what to say in a prayer, what proprotion of our money are we to take out for the Zakah (mandatory alms), among hundreds of other teachings without which the religion would not be complete.

More importantly, rejecting the Hadeeth is tantamount to disobeying God, who says, “Whoever obeys the Messenger has obeyed God” (4:80). How do we obey the Prophet (PBUH) if we don’t know what he said?!

Which brings me to the reason which is probably why these folks reject the Hadeeth. Namely, they do not trust that the prophet (PBUH) said what the Hadeeths say he said. I doubt that any Muslim would actually know that the Prophet ordered something and they consciously decide not to do it!

So, the issue actually is the authenticity of the Hadeeth. There is reason to be suspicious of the authenticity of the Hadeeth, but that’s no reason to reject it; it is reason to scrutinize it.

This is exactly why our righteous predecessors spent lifetimes collecting narrations, verifying the integrity and competence of each narrator and ensuring the continuity of the “chain of narrators”. May God have been pleased with their phenomenal efforts. They found out that 90% of all narrations going around were either weak or outright fabrications! They discovered that many narrators were not credible or were incompetent.

The good news is that they ended up with the creme of the crop: Men and women of impeccable reputation, remarkable memory, mastery of language, piety and knowledge. Those are the narrators of the Hadeeths rated authentic by the leading Hadeeth scholars, such as Al-Bukhaari and Muslim.

The disciplines of Hadeeth study are many and are sophisticated; you actually are taught them in specialized universities in the Muslim world! There is the Usool discipline (Foundations), the Takhreej discipline (scrutinization and rating of narrations), Ta’reekh discipline (biography of narrators), Al-Jarh wat-Ta`deel discipline (assessment of narrators), as well as the need to learn the vocabulary, customs, geography and society at the time of the Prophet (PBUH) until the Hadeeth books were authored three Centuries later.

What the Hadeeth scholars have done is a showcase of scientific disipline. Yet, they were human still and as human they could err despite their best efforts. Therefore, it is conceivable that a hadeeth could be rated authentic but has fundamental problems with it. This is a sensitive issue, because strict Muslims, such as the Salafis reject the notion that the Salaf could have made mistakes. Other Muslims are puzzled by the apparent discrepancy, even contradiction, of what some hadeeths say and what the Quran says. Whenever such situation happens, Muslims typically have one of four reactions: (a) Pretend that there is no discrepancy, (b) Attempt to reconcile the two texts, (c) Favor the Quran over the Hadeeth, or, believe it or not, (d) Favor the Hadeeth over the Quran!

I humbly suggest that everybody should do (b)! All other approaches to the problem are irrational, because a true hadeeth cannot possibly conflict with the Quran.



Verse 5:3, , and the subsequent two verses were the last verses revealed of the Quran. The Prophet (PBUH) knew that his mission is complete and that perhaps his time was up. He said on his “farewell sermon” which immediately followed the revelation of 5:3-5, “Listen to me and understand what I’m saying, perhaps I will not see you again after this year of ours!” He died three months later. Thus, the “completion verse” meant that not only was the Quran complete, but the Hadeeth too. Their conveyor, peace be upon him, would shortly die.

So, to answer the main question: Those people don’t know how to handle hadeeths that seem to contradict the Quran, so they don’t bother with the Hadeeth at all. It’s a radical reaction, kind of like being diagnosed differently by different doctors then deciding that you won’t treat yourself at all! The right thing to do is to scrutinize the hadeeth. By doing so, and provided the hadeeth is authentic, one gains knowledge of what the hadeeth actually means and can see that no conflict exists between it and the Quran. That is a task that is understandably beyond the capacity of most Muslims. It is an obligation, IMHO, upon Muslim scholars to do this and ease people’s minds.

 

[strive-may-i]

Authority

Qwel, Okay Authenticity you are in agreement.

Authority is what you want to know, So here they are... There must be more. Hope this helps

Authority, wisdom, leader, wise, truthful, knowledge of Al-Himah all these Allah Almighty Allah says are given to prophet so that he can guide us...

Almighty Allah says
O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger (SAW), if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination..[Quran 4:59 - Translated Muhsin Khan]

Had not the Grace of Allah and His Mercy been upon you (O Muhammad SAW), a party of them would certainly have made a decision to mislead you, but (in fact) they mislead none except their own selves, and no harm can they do to you in the least. Allah has sent down to you the Book (The Quran), and Al-Hikmah (Islamic laws, knowledge of legal and illegal things i.e. the Prophet's Sunnah - legal ways), and taught you that which you knew not. And Ever Great is the Grace of Allah unto you (O Muhammad SAW) [Quran 4:113 Translated Muhsin Khan]"

And We sent not a Messenger except with the language of his people, in order that he might make (the Message) clear for them. Then Allah misleads whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.[Quran 14:4 Translated by Muhsin Khan]


With clear signs and Books (We sent the Messengers). And We have also sent down unto you (O Muhammad SAW) the reminder and the advice (the Quran), that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought. [Quran 16:44 Translated by Muhsin Khan]

There has certainly been for you in the Messenger of Allah an excellent pattern for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and [who] remembers Allah often. [Quran 33:21 Translated Muhsin Khan]

By the star when it goes down, (or vanishes).Your companion (Muhammad SAW) has neither gone astray nor has erred.Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.It is only an Inspiration that is inspired.He has been taught (this Quran) by one mighty in power[Jibrael (Gabriel)]. [Quran 53:1-5 Translated Muhsin Khan]
Note: Jibrael(A) is the Angel

 

[strive-may-i]

Authority(contd)

Here are some more verses from Holy Quran.

It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in a plain error.[Quran 33:36 Translated by Muhsin Khan]

And whoever contradicts and opposes the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) after the right path has been shown clearly to him, and follows other than the believers' way. We shall keep him in the path he has chosen, and burn him in Hell - what an evil destination. [Quran 4:115 Translated by Muhsin Khan]

There are more Ayah I think... And Almighty Allah knows best.

Gathered from different sources. May Almighty reward the compilers, who made it easy for me to gather and post it here. May Almighty help us in joining hands, as we strive to better our Imaan.... Ameen!

 

[strive-may-i]

There are some questions often which our mind phrases, and such questions have flaw, because they dont take us to right answers, they freeze our thoughts and the question itself acts as a block in seeking answer... It usually happens, In My opinion.

Now what makes such questions come up, is it ego, is it the whisper of Shaythaan... I dont know. I want to move ahead reach to the answers, submit to will of Almighty, be good , do good and reach Jannah.

The Quran and reasoning by all those who participated in this thread, the moomins, the previous generations, the scholars, the auliya, the sahabah, reinforces - To reach Jannah, I would obey Almighty, and follow the example of Prophet , who already is assured of Jannah by Almighty...

May Almighty make us righteous enough... Ameen!

 

[IslamIsSimple]

No. I accept the authority of the messenger.

Because the quran forbids you from believing in any hadith besides it. This is a contradiction in the position you hold. If the messenger's words outside of the quran were authoritative, why does Allah forbid you from believing in them?

The authority of the messenger is confined to the conveyance of the quran. His authority is determined by the commands he gives from the quran.

So from the texts above, you actually do NOT accept the authority of the messengers words to begin with. You limit it to the Qur'an, which is Gods words, not the messengers.

It must logically follow that this includes the messengers explanations of the Qur'aan itself. And this, is clearly problamatic, because his explanations cannot be rejected since hes the messenger and to claim to understand the Qur'aan better than him is absurd. On the other hand if they are accepted, then the theory of rejecting the prophets words altogether is no longer. It cant be had both ways.

Also, in a Mutawatir hadeeth, the prophet said many things about lying about him, about heaven and hell and the day of judgement and so on. He tells us that Jesus will return as well.

These sayings are mutawatir and have the highest levels of authenticity.

So either :

A- The prophet doesnt have the authority from Allah to say these things, and he was lying and making things up. (in which case the Qur'aan itself shouldnt be accepted from him)

or

B- He was inspired by Allah and his sayings must be accepted. And this goes with

In Surat Al Nisa in the Qur'aan.. "But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith until they make you ( Prophet Muhammad ) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept them with full submission."

24:54, "And if you obey him (the Prophet), you shall find the right path."

Its not only the prophet, but even the interpretations of the Qur'aan by the companions.. as one cannot claim to have an understanding of the Qur'aan better than Abu Bakr raa, or Abdullah Ibn Abbas, or Ubayy Ibn Ka'b.

24:54, "Say, 'Obey Allah and obey the Messenger; then if you turn away, upon him rests what is laid on him, and upon you rests what is laid on you. If you obey him, you will be guided."

The thing is, we have authentic texts, so once a saying of the prophet is %100 proven to be authentic, one MUST fall under category A, or B. Logically, theres no third possibility.

For instance, the hadeeths of the return of Jesus is mutawatir, narrated with numerous authentic chains, from Abu Hurairah, Ibn Mas'ood, Uthman Bin Abi Waqqas, Abi Umamah, Al Nawwas Bin Sam'aah, Abdullah Bin Amru Ibn Al Aas, and more..

So either the prophet said truth and his words are to be accepted, or he didnt say the truth (in which case, the Qur'aan shouldnt be followed anyway, if he werent truthful). It cant be said "well he doesnt have the authority to teach us these things"

 

[IslamIsSimple]

qwel, do you really think the that Quranic verse actually means do not follow the orders of the prophet peace be upon him? How can it be said the Qur'aan teaches not to accept the prophets teachings about religion or belief? To me, this makes no sense.

Anyhow, you practically didnt address neither point A nor point B. This is because you ignored the main idea whic is having a position on what the prophet taught about religion, using about Jesus' return as an example.

The hadeeths about Jesus return (and where) are Mutawatir and %100 authentic. Narrated with numerous authentic chains, from Abu Hurairah, Ibn Mas'ood, Uthman Bin Abi Waqqas, Abi Umamah, Al Nawwas Bin Sam'aah, Abdullah Bin Amru Ibn Al Aas, and many others
..

So, what is your position on the prophets saying? Was he truthful or not truthful? Answering this will help much in illustrating my point, so please let me know what your answer is.

I have many other examples and points even, but lets focus on this for now.

 

[strive-may-i]

Firstly, there is no evidence in the quran that the messenger was receiving any revelation/inspiration other than the quran. The only revelation the messenger was receiving was the quran, according to the quran:

18:27 And recite what has been revealed to you of (the) book (of) your Lord. None can change His words and never you will find from besides Him a refuge.

Can you read once again posts#94,#95,#96 and #97. And explain what do words of Almighty the Wise, posted in those comments convey to you?

Okay reposting the ayats again for you, take your time, no hurry...

Had not the Grace of Allah and His Mercy been upon you (O Muhammad SAW), a party of them would certainly have made a decision to mislead you, but (in fact) they mislead none except their own selves, and no harm can they do to you in the least. Allah has sent down to you the Book (The Quran), and Al-Hikmah (Islamic laws, knowledge of legal and illegal things i.e. the Prophet's Sunnah - legal ways), and taught you that which you knew not. And Ever Great is the Grace of Allah unto you (O Muhammad SAW) [Quran 4:113 Translated Muhsin Khan]

And whoever contradicts and opposes the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) after the right path has been shown clearly to him, and follows other than the believers' way. We shall keep him in the path he has chosen, and burn him in Hell - what an evil destination. [Quran 4:115 Translated by Muhsin Khan]

 

[strive-may-i]

Also, you have not attempted to explain why Allah forbids you from believing in hadith besides the quran, and why He forbids you from referring to any other scripture for judgements. This undermines the entire concept of the prophet's hadith.

What are you trying to say, I think, I did not understand...[bold part]

Also, Answer to question in comment 99 too please...

 

[Tomtom]

As'alaamu Alaikkum

As a new revert and a lay person I find thid debate fascinating. I wonder if somebody could explain the following hadith? Does it say not to write down anything that the Prophet (pbuh) says?

Abu Sa'id Khudri reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said:
Do not take down anything from me, and he who took down anything from me except the Qur'an, he should efface that and narrate from me, for there is no harm in it and he who attributed any falsehood to me-and Hammam said: I think he also said:" deliberately" -he should in fact find his abode in the Hell-Fire.
Muslim
English reference: Book 42, Hadith 7147
Arabic reference: Book 56, Hadith 7702

 

[IslamIsSimple]

No, the quran tells you to follow the orders of messenger very explicitly several times. And I've presented you verses that show these orders and judgements he was conveying were from the quran. I believe you've understood this point clearly.

What the quran is forbidding you from doing is going outside of the quran for authoritative divine guidance. This is absolutely explicit.

The verses say obey Allah AND obey his messenger. To say obeying the messenger is not applicable is saying the Qur'aan is outdated. The messenger regarding teaching the religion is infallible, and he is to be obeyed and referred to in disputes, as verses make clear. But when I refer to him, you refuse. It is impossible for the same messenger was chosen to convey the Qur'an, to teach false things about religion and God. Its absoloutly impossible.

Quran also says : "And We have also sent down unto you Al Dhikr that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought. "

4:80 "He who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah"

Qur'aan also says ""But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith until they make you ( Prophet Muhammad, not Qur'aan ) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions (it doesnt say Allahs decisions), and accept them with full submission."

24:54 "If you obey him, you shall be on the right guidance. The Messenger's duty is only to convey (the message) in a clear way"

It didnt say his duty was to dryly transmit a text for each individual to interpret the way he wishes.

See these verses? I can twist them in probably 10 different ways giving 10 different madeup interpretations. How do I know whats right? By knowing the context, when, how and why the verses came down and how they were understood by those who understood the Qur'aan the best, the prophet peace be upon him and his companions.

This is a very important point, that I know will be dodged too if I dont repetedly focus on mentioning it. One cant strip verses out of their context and intended meanings just to makeup new beliefs, as if they understood the Qur'aan better than the prophet and his companions.

This point is simply dismissed by saying "oh the prophet didnt have the authority". Really? The messenger who the Qur'aan was revealed to, and who was sent to teach people their religion, didnt have the authority to teach Quran and religion? Im sorry but really, how is that not absurd?


What I find amusing, is how Quranees use twisted interpretations that are clearly %100 against the way the prophet himself and his companions understood Islam, yet have no problem in accepting "Rashad Khalifa" as their prophet!

I believe the whole purpose of the newly innovated twisted interpretations that are against the teachings of the prophet himself, and the consensus of Muslim scholars throughout history, was only to redefine Islam and makeup a new religion; which they did with their so-called prophet in Arizona. Afterall it must be easier than starting from scratch, right?. Whats ironic too is how he comes up with the number 19 theory in the Qur'aan, but to make it work, this Arizona "prophet" throws verses out.

Its all about convenience I believe. Rejecting Sunnah is exactly what needs to be done, to introduce new beliefs and new prophets.

I addressed point B clearly. Please specify where you think my response was insufficient.

I saw no reason to address point A because you begun with an unfounded premise, which is that I have to acknowledge something classed as mutawatir by the ulama attributed to the messenger. I have to do no such thing as long as you have failed to prove the authority of any text besides the quran.

If I am to accept the above mentioned ahadith as inspired revelation, you must present a reconciliation with:

45:6 These (are) āyāt of Allah. We recite them upon you with truth. Then in what ḥadīth after Allah and His āyāt will they believe?

How is one to believe in the ahadith of Jesus' return in light of the above?

No, my friend, you didnt address point B clearly. You dodged the question with very general answers to very specific questions. The reason you dodge is to avoid getting into authenticity. You stated before that its something you want to avoid discussing.

The hadeeths on Jesus' return is mutawatir and authentic, thats a scientific historical fact.

45:6 These (are) āyāt of Allah. We recite them upon you with truth. Then in what ḥadīth after Allah and His āyāt will they believe?

How is one to believe in the ahadith of Jesus' return in light of the above?

Really? Maybe the same way scholars throughout history did? Since this verse is clearly directed to polytheists and disbelievers? You find this problamatic, and twist it to make it sound like it applies to the words of the messenger chosen to convery the Quran and teach it, but claiming prophethood after prophet Muhammad isnt is just fine? (assuming you are from most rejectors of Sunnah, who believe in the prophethood Rashad Khalifa of Arizona). He also, after rejecting Sunnah, actually said that his name and the name of his father are mentioned in the Qur'aan, by twisting verses in an absurd manner as well.

He also said that angel Gabriel made a mistake once when delivering him a messege, and admitted to having recieved the land of his "mosque" and the building itself, from a non Muslim Jewish organization (maybe the Mosaad? God knows). He says his miracles are greater than those of all prophets! Much of this is in an interview of his with Al Basheer magazine.

It is him who said "Im a millionaire, but millions dont mean anything to me"

I mean really, whats next, interpreting "He who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah" that the messenger is God?

To show how he is mentally and emotionally unstable, although the imposter being an Egyptian Arab, he said in the interview that he wouldnt allow any Arab, "with full Arab blood", to his mosque. When the interview replied (in a challenging manner) by saying asking if its because they understand the language of Quran and Sunnah so they are harder to decieve, he simply replied "All of them will be in hell along with you".

Amazing prophet hehe... and this is the person behind the vast majority of Sunnah denier propaganda today. By consensus of Muslim scholars (who actually had a formal meeting and issued this ruling), they are disbelievers, and not Muslim.

 

[IslamIsSimple]

As'alaamu Alaikkum

As a new revert and a lay person I find thid debate fascinating. I wonder if somebody could explain the following hadith? Does it say not to write down anything that the Prophet (pbuh) says?

Abu Sa'id Khudri reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said:
Do not take down anything from me, and he who took down anything from me except the Qur'an, he should efface that and narrate from me, for there is no harm in it and he who attributed any falsehood to me-and Hammam said: I think he also said:" deliberately" -he should in fact find his abode in the Hell-Fire.
Muslim
English reference: Book 42, Hadith 7147
Arabic reference: Book 56, Hadith 7702

Akhi this cant be used to deny authority of Sunnah, because first of all its from the Sunnah. And secondly, it says "and narrate from me"

This was at a specific time for a specific people, in the early days, so that his words wouldnt be mixed with Qur'aan.

Other texts on the topic that help understand the context..

"Allaah protected Makkah from the elephant and has given authority to His Messenger and the believers over it, so fighting was forbidden for anyone before me, and was made permissible for me for part of a day, and it will not be permissible for anyone after me. Its game should not be chased, its thorny bushes should not be uprooted, and picking up its fallen things is not allowed except for one who makes public announcement for it, and he whose relative is murdered has the option either to accept a compensation for it or to retaliate." Al-'Abbas said, "Except Al-Idhkhir (a kind of plant), for we use it in our graves and houses." The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, "Except Al-Idhkhir." Abu Shaah, a Yemeni, stood up and said, "O Messenger of Allaah! Get it written for me." The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, "Write it for Abu Shaah." (al-Luqatah, 2254)

Also the following (not my writing)

Ibn Hajar said: What may be understood from the story of Abu Shaah ("Write it for Abu Shaah") is that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) gave permission for hadeeth to be written down from him.

This contradicts the hadeeth of Abu Sa'eed al-Khudri, which says that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, 'Do not write down anything from me except the Qur'aan.' (Narrated by Muslim).

The two may be reconciled by noting that the prohibition applied only to the time when the Qur'aan was being revealed, lest it be confused with something else, and that permission was given at other times; or that the prohibition applied only to writing down things other than Qur'aan with the Qur'aan on one thing, and that permission was given to write them separately; of that the prohibition came first and the permission abrogated that, when there was no longer any fear of confusion. This is most likely to be the case.

It was said that the prohibition applied only to those whom it was feared would depend on the writing and not memorize things, and that permission was given for those from whom such a thing was not feared.

The scholars said: a group of the Sahaabah and Taabi'een regarded it as makrooh to write down the hadeeth and they regarded it as mustahabb to learn it from them by heart, as they had learned it. But when people were no longer able to strive so hard (in memorizing) and the scholars feared that knowledge might be lost, they compiled it in books."

What supports the above, are texts like this in Sahih Al Bukhari.

Volume 008, Book 076, Hadith Number 480.

Narated By Warrad : (The clerk of Al-Mughira bin Shu'ba) Muawiya wrote to Al-Mughira: "Write to me a narration you have heard from Allah's Apostle." So Al-Mughira wrote to him, "I heard him saying the following after each prayer: 'La ilaha illal-lahu wahdahu la sharika lahu, lahu-l-mulk wa lahuI-hamd, wa huwa 'ala kulli Shai-in qadir.' He also used to forbid idle talk, asking too many questions (in religion), wasting money, preventing what should be given, and asking others for something (except in great need), being undutiful to mothers, and burying one's little daughters (alive)."

Anyhow, it cant be used to deny authority of Sunnah, because it IS from the Sunnah. And secondly, it says "and narrate from me"

 

[Tomtom]

It looks like qwel was banned today, what a shame. I've said it in another forum, when difficult questions are asked muslims today use 'brute force' instead of debating and arguing for their case. It's easy to ban people who do not conform to or way of thinking, one should always hear from the other side even satan inspired atheists. I do not buy that argument that they will turn people away from their religion because if the faith is strong in the first place then nothing should deviate one from the True Path of Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala.