A Question

[Shak78]

:salam2:

I was mulling this over last night and wanted to ask my esteemed brothers and sisters on here. When it comes to things like 9-11, AQ and such, why are many Muslims so defensive about them as if Muslim can do no wrong. When it comes to 9-11 I have my doubts about the official story but when it comes to Bin laden or AQ I have no doubts. I feel as if some on here and in the world defend them as if there is no possibility that Muslims could do wrong. Things like when a story is linked from a Western News Souce ie CNN, BBC, MSNBC ect some discredit is just on the basis that the story is from a Western Source and thus is wrong period. I have a hard time with this. Now I know the media lies, I am not naive about that but to say that Muslims do not do harm is just wrong. I know the US and other Western Powers have caused harm, murder ect in the world, I am not blind to the failings of my own country but not all 1.5 billion Muslims are innocent of murder and terrorism. I just wonder why some defend them so vigorously or refuse to believe they might have actually done horrible deeds. I mean no offense to anyone on here but this issue has been bothering me for some time.

 

[Perseveranze]

You need to understand something important. I believe this video is best to explain to you -

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This is why people get defensive. We don't ever speak bad or curse another Muslim. Bin Laden, is a Muslim, that doesn't mean you have to agree with him or support him in any way. If someone asks you to denounce his actions, you do that, but if someone says to denounce Bin Laden himself, you should never do that.

It's crazy seeing Muslims celebrating Bin Ladens death, do they not know how much of a sin that is? Especially on someone they've never met and almost every bit of info on him comes from Kaafirs.

Oh and for the record, when there's no evidence on something, and the kaafir says one thing but your Muslim brother/sister says another, you believe the Muslim. Bin Laden said he wasn't behind 9/11, meaning he wasn't.

 

[Shak78]

:salam2:

Celebrating anyone's death to me is wrong, I didn't do it when Bin Laden was killed. I look into each action myself, my Poly Sci training has taught me to never take things at face value no matter who they are coming from. I know the media lies about Muslims, I am not blind and yes it does anger me. I am not going to take anyone's word over another until I have investigated it myself. What about other attacks, Khobar Towers in KSA, the Embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania, the USS Cole Bombing, the Bali bombings or the first attack on the WTC in 1993. All of these that I have looked into have been done by Muslims which is wrong to murder.

My main issue is that anytime an act may have been carried out by a Muslim, many jump to the conclusion that it was not since it was a Muslim who was accused. Some times they are wrong, sometimes they are right but to immediately jump to that conclusion that the West is lying is just as short sighted as they accuse others of. I take each act by it self.

 

[Perseveranze]

:salam2:

Celebrating anyone's death to me is wrong, I didn't do it when Bin Laden was killed. I look into each action myself, my Poly Sci training has taught me to never take things at face value no matter who they are coming from. I know the media lies about Muslims, I am not blind and yes it does anger me. I am not going to take anyone's word over another until I have investigated it myself. What about other attacks, Khobar Towers in KSA, the Embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania, the USS Cole Bombing, the Bali bombings or the first attack on the WTC in 1993. All of these that I have looked into have been done by Muslims which is wrong to murder.

My main issue is that anytime an act may have been carried out by a Muslim, many jump to the conclusion that it was not since it was a Muslim who was accused. Some times they are wrong, sometimes they are right but to immediately jump to that conclusion that the West is lying is just as short sighted as they accuse others of. I take each act by it self.

If there is concrete proof, and I don't mean Obama saying "He had Al-Qaeda links" as proof.

I'm talking undeniable proof, then the "make 70 excuses for your brother" need not apply.

However, this certainly doesn't mean you talk ill about the person. If they did wrong, and your certain based on evidences, then you can't lie about it. But no, we shouldn't say things like "Bin Laden is evil" etc. That's not how Muslims should act.

That's all I was saying, hope you understand.

 

[Mabsoot]

assalamu alaykum

The Senior schoalrs spoke about Bin Laden, and all mentioned he was from the leaders of the Khawarij of this day. This is not cursing, or "speaking bad" about a Muslim. It is warning people from evil ! -Alqaeda might not be a real organisation, but it is a real "methodology" which is spread by some people, notably Bin Laden. He called others to the murder of people, men, women and children, even those who are Muslims, he deemed them to be "enemies of Islam" - Those who took him to be their shaykh made takfir on so many, and cause a great deal of fitnah

It is outrageous and sad what happens to the Muslims in Kashmir, Afghanistan and to the Arabs. The US and UK foreign policy has much to do with the wrongs going on in the world, in the past and present. This doesn't mean we give any blind sympathy and support to any person who appears to speak against them.

The real problem is due to the weakness of Muslims themselves. People have been distant from Islam, and applying it to their lives. Some in the Ummah have started to awaken their desire for Islam and knowledge, but, lack the implementation of Islamic character and uprightness which is required. -

It is for this reason, we have not seen a real sense of direction and real commitment to the betterment of Muslims in the Ummah. The same Ahmad, who goes out to protest and burn flags, is the same Ahmad who makes feeble excuses to help his fellow Muslim or neighbour.

Wasalamu alaykum

 

[Shak78]

If there is concrete proof, and I don't mean Obama saying "He had Al-Qaeda links" as proof.

I'm talking undeniable proof, then the "make 70 excuses for your brother" need not apply.

However, this certainly doesn't mean you talk ill about the person. If they did wrong, and your certain based on evidences, then you can't lie about it. But no, we shouldn't say things like "Bin Laden is evil" etc. That's not how Muslims should act.

That's all I was saying, hope you understand.

:salam2:

I understand totally, I am just saying those who still say it isn't true it after proof is shown I don't get.

 

[Astrugglingsoul]

:salam2:

well i see people are saying not to say anything bad about other muslims. what if those muslims are causing trouble for other fellow muslims? aren't they doing evil deeds? for example why al qaeda have to kidnap and kill afghan policemen, who are also muslims and then publish a video. why they blow up girls schools? overall these actions harm the reputations of the muslims all over the world. i am not saying i celebrated bin laden's death but i don't like the policies of al qaeda either.

 

[nyerekareem]

when muslims see something wrong, we should speak out against it. when people are doing horrible things in the name of islam, we should denounce their actions. i will always denounce their actions, but i have no right to deny their shahadah. i have noticed an increasing sympathy to or justification for some people whom were obviously involved in terrorism being given here by some members on TTI. muslims are capable of doing evil as are all people. when muslims make mistakes we shouldn't act as if muslims are perfect. islam is perfect but muslims aren't.

 

[alf2]

You need to understand something important. I believe this video is best to explain to you -

This is why people get defensive. We don't ever speak bad or curse another Muslim. Bin Laden, is a Muslim, that doesn't mean you have to agree with him or support him in any way. If someone asks you to denounce his actions, you do that, but if someone says to denounce Bin Laden himself, you should never do that.

It's crazy seeing Muslims celebrating Bin Ladens death, do they not know how much of a sin that is? Especially on someone they've never met and almost every bit of info on him comes from Kaafirs.

Oh and for the record, when there's no evidence on something, and the kaafir says one thing but your Muslim brother/sister says another, you believe the Muslim. Bin Laden said he wasn't behind 9/11, meaning he wasn't.

@ bold: Why should we just accept the Muslim's word? Muslims are capable of lying.

 

[nyerekareem]

@ bold: Why should we just accept the Muslim's word? Muslims are capable of lying.

:salam2:

i think it's just a defense mechanism. i just can't believe that some people here can't believe that some people like Bin Laden and a few others have ever had any hand in terrorism. almost every day in afghanistan, pakistan, yemen, and somalia; Al qaeda in those countries have claimed responsibility for those attacks. they are muslims, i wont ever doubt that, but their actions have to be called out. isn't that why TTI was started? because there were muslims in this world doing things that 99.9% of us muslims did not believe in or support that was creating a bad image and name for islam, which required us to have to say that we aren't in league with people that enact violence on innocent people?

 

[ShahnazZ]

I'm not touching the "Al-Quaida" issue with a ten-foot pole.

All I want to say is that you're right when you say that Muslims aren't angels. I don't think anyone was saying they were. Like the brother mentioned above, sometimes it's just a defense mechanism to defend your own people. In fact, much of the time, it's a knee-jerk reaction to simply defend your own and then later on contemplate whether or not they could be wrong. I'm not saying this is correct. I'm simply stating it's human nature.

I believe as Muslims, we should speak out against the actions of our brothers and sisters as well as outsiders'. We're not doing our Ummah any favors by concealing our faults and this is a way of helping one another.

Again, I don't think anyone is saying that Muslims aren't capable of terrorism. I think the main idea is that it seems very hypocritical for the pot to call the kettle black. That's all. At the end of the day, no one's perfect and I don't think anyone's claiming perfection.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

We have to go back to the Cursades. Pope Urban. He is the one that made the European hate Islam.

Why did you leave out the attack of the USS Liberty?

What proof do you have that 9/11 was masterminded by Muslims. None. You are buying into the lies of those who are greedy.

This is limited thinking. And the counterargument that I am a conspiracy theorist is lame. Look at the facts. Why do you think there is Occupy Wall Street.

9/11 was the work of financiers. Why not look into the real reasons.

Why is America broke.

No, Muslims are not responsible for the woes of America..try looking at the real enemy.

And let us be careful...we have to defend Muslims. We have to trust each other.

Oh Muslim..we are waiting for the Hour..why do we not trust each other.

 

[Hard Rock Moslem]

As Muslims, we should subscribe following legal term they use in civil court of law:

'Let Hundred Guilty Be Acquitted But One Innocent Should Not Be Convicted'

I think, the above phrase actually belongs to Islamic teachings.

Certainly we are not being defensive. Which is worst, punishing the innocent or freeing the guilty for lack of proofs? 9/11 official stories have so many gaps until it is so difficult for me to believe men from desert Afghanistan could ever blow WTC to collapse systematically? US claimed AQ and Osama are responsible for the most of the terror crime in the world, where are the proofs? We as Muslims will not defend any guilty Muslims, if proven. So please provide the evidence. I can produce 100 tapes about George Bush as chief of global terror, like they did on Osama, can we take that as evident? With the technology today anyone can produce any doctored video about anything. It is a test to our intelligent actually.

 

[saifkhan]

as-salam 'alaikum warahamtu-llah

Alhamdu li Allah, Allah has bestowed me with better understanding of these issues, and for that i dont need anyone's opinion or anything. and i don't want to comment on it even, because thats not gonna change others perception, until they understand.

wa-llahi, the time for us is so bad, that we should take heed from the kuffars.
I'm not gonna argue/debate what bin laden did was good or evil, because i've my own understanding regarding them.
but what happened to Norway just few days ago? and what the media did? and we still have to disagree that we have nothing to take from the kuffar as lesson, may Allah forgive us. in spite of the issue of what bin laden did, what we did? we really in need of know/learn al wala and al bara.

it was just an example, what about the israeli bastards, what are they doing and what is being showed in media, what did the UN, NATO did? and we still want to go what media showed about our brothers?

take lesson from kuffar, was just a parable or metaphoric saying....dont get me wrong.

anyways, a good watch, really, dont get afraid of the title, although it is dealing with this issue, but it has really points that we must understand

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also watch part 2

the lecture is in German, i guess, please look at the subtitles

wa-llahu a'lam
wassalamu 'alaykum

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Brother,

Thank you for posting the video.

We have to make a choice. If we are Muslims we know the choice.

In no way are we to be rude. We worship what we worship. And we defend what we worship. We are striving for junnath.

And we need to keep in mind the focus of our discussions need to be based on our faith. That is where sense starts.

 

[saifkhan]

assalamu alaykum


The real problem is due to the weakness of Muslims themselves. People have been distant from Islam, and applying it to their lives. Some in the Ummah have started to awaken their desire for Islam and knowledge, but, lack the implementation of Islamic character and uprightness which is required. -


Wasalamu alaykum

wa 'alaykums alam warahamtu-llahi wabarakatuhu

we know each other's view on bin laden (not only him alone) or similar personalities.
the thing i dont know much, i dont want to get into, at the same time I'm ready to change my self and my view, whenever i'll get enough evidences and proof,but i dont think so still there is chance of evidence. because it is not been proven and i\ll not go without proof.

however, thats why i dont want to get into it.

but with all due respect to all of the members of forums and you, could you please mention, for what weakness, our muslims have been attacked by the kuffars? what weakness? the only thing i can see, the alligence to kuffars of the muslims leaders. and we are weak in terms of power, right?

Umar radhiAllahu anhu, when kuffar used to hear his name, their knees would shake and they would not dare to face him. where is our these leaders?

all of the scholars, they say, we are away from Quran and sunnah, thats why we are humiliated and degraded. isn't it?
all will agree with me.

but what is that sticking to Quran and sunnah? what power will we get?
does not our Quran say in chapter 9 verse 14:Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers, 15: And still the indignation of their hearts. For Allah will turn (in mercy) to whom He will; and Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.
(yousuf ali translation)

now people will say: Islam spread violence, but it was said to fight those who fights you. and the very muslims will say, no this was not instructed to all, it was the context of a war. if those terrorist will stop what they are doing, Islam would have a good reputation, subhan Allah, and Allah is saying it is His religion, and we are tend to be more careful than Him? Allah is the One who honors and humiliates. but from whom we are trying to get a complement? subhan Allah

and how will you ease the pain of the hearts of the believers? who lost their infant children, old father lost their young or teen children? infant children lost their mother and father? how we gonna make them feel better?

yes may be being patient, because chapter 2, verse 153 O ye who believe! seek help with patient perseverance and prayer; for Allah is with those who patiently persevere. (yousuf ali)


but why we tend to go with one verse, not the other, while some of us have the ability. and even if patience, upto which extent? they are looking at us (of course being patient with Allah's help) and we are instructing them the same, already which state they are in. Allah will not tolerate these, wa-llahi

and why we always say, foreign policy, invaders, US ,UK, west? in these places there are muslims even and general people who are not involved. why dont we call by the name with what Allah has mentioned them?

they are Kuffar, zalimoon, the jews and the christians, they are allies and they are against us.

indeed the scholars are right, we are away from Quran and sunnah.
because we are not doing what we are instructed to do, indeed we are away form Quran, no doubt.

i dont have to prove that.

wa-llahu a'lam
wa-llahu samiun basir

wa-llahu 'alimun haqim
inna-llaha kulli shayyin qadeer

wassalamun 'alaik

 

[MohammedMaksudul]

:salam2:

Patience is not sitting without efforts and expecting for a change, but patience is persisting in acts of worship and bearing and tolerating anything that comes in the way due to those acts of worship.

 

[Perseveranze]

@ bold: Why should we just accept the Muslim's word? Muslims are capable of lying.

So are the kaafir. When there's no evidence, will you believe the kaafir over the Muslim?